Gladiators 1,983 Posted November 29, 2017 Mark Cuban: Bitcoin is more of a collectible than a currency Billionaire tech entrepreneur Mark Cuban made a case that cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum are more of a collectible than a currency. “If they were truly currencies, you wouldn’t try to convert them or value them based off of other currencies. [Their value] would just be intrinsic,” Cuban told J. Kyle Bass of Hayman Capital in an hour-long interview earlier this month that aired on RealVision Television, a subscription-based financial video service. Cuban, who described himself as “more spectator” in the digital currency space, said that he’s a big fan of blockchain, the underlying technology. But when it comes to Bitcoin, Cuban sees issues with transactions. “It’s going to be very difficult for it to be a currency when the time and expense of doing a transaction is 100 times what you can do over a Visa or MasterCard, right?” Cuban said. I see he's thinking along the same lines I am...Assuming he really said these things. Doesn't make it a bad investment, but the end game is what I'm after. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,945 Posted November 29, 2017 I see he's thinking along the same lines I am...Assuming he really said these things. Doesn't make it a bad investment, but the end game is what I'm after. Most fiat currencies have no intrinsic value either. Does that make them all collectibles? Most modern paper currencies are fiat currencies; they have no intrinsic value and are used solely as a means of payment. Historically, governments would mint coins out of a physical commodity, such as gold or silver, or would print paper money that could be redeemed for a set amount of physical commodity. Fiat money is inconvertible and cannot be redeemed. Fiat money rose to prominence in the 20th century, specifically after the collapse of the Bretton Woods system in 1971, when the United States ceased to allow the conversion of the dollar into gold. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,983 Posted November 29, 2017 When someone brought up the idea that CC will allow people/companies to complete transactions overseas instantly, I thought about the potential fraud aspect in business. As soon as that $ is sent, it's gone. No call to the bank for a stop payment. No positive pay. I see lots of obstacles, and I'm sure I'm just scratching the surface. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,945 Posted November 29, 2017 Should we listen to Cuban or NASDAQ? The cryptocurrency has been normalizing with investors, getting its own federally-regulated exchange this past July. Now, Nasdaq is planning to launch contracts for bitcoin futures in the first half of 2018, according to The Wall Street Journal, which will enable investors to predict and put money on the future price of the currency. The Wall Street Journal also reports that broker Cantor Fitzgerald will be launching bitcoin derivatives on its own exchange in the first half of next year as well, making for yet another brokerage to help make bitcoin a more mainstream financial instrument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,983 Posted November 29, 2017 Most fiat currencies have no intrinsic value either. Does that make them all collectibles? Most modern paper currencies are fiat currencies; they have no intrinsic value and are used solely as a means of payment. Historically, governments would mint coins out of a physical commodity, such as gold or silver, or would print paper money that could be redeemed for a set amount of physical commodity. Fiat money is inconvertible and cannot be redeemed. Fiat money rose to prominence in the 20th century, specifically after the collapse of the Bretton Woods system in 1971, when the United States ceased to allow the conversion of the dollar into gold. I'm in agreement with Cuban when he says, “It’s going to be very difficult for it to be a currency when the time and expense of doing a transaction is 100 times what you can do over a Visa or MasterCard, right?” Cuban said. I asked the question before regarding how it'll be used. Can I go to the grocery store and buy groceries with it like I can with a credit card, debit card or cash? Based on what Cuban's saying, the answer is "No." I guess technically perhaps you can, but you'll be standing in line for an 15 minutes just for the payment to process. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,983 Posted November 29, 2017 Should we listen to Cuban or NASDAQ? The cryptocurrency has been normalizing with investors, getting its own federally-regulated exchange this past July. Now, Nasdaq is planning to launch contracts for bitcoin futures in the first half of 2018, according to The Wall Street Journal, which will enable investors to predict and put money on the future price of the currency. The Wall Street Journal also reports that broker Cantor Fitzgerald will be launching bitcoin derivatives on its own exchange in the first half of next year as well, making for yet another brokerage to help make bitcoin a more mainstream financial instrument. I'm listening to both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 29, 2017 I see he's thinking along the same lines I am...Assuming he really said these things. Doesn't make it a bad investment, but the end game is what I'm after. sorry https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-cuban-bitcoin-collectible-currency-152121444.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,723 Posted November 29, 2017 How are fiat currencies valued? based on the economy of that country? think of all the factors that make the dollar weak or when the dollar is strong. i thin Cubans point was that if it was more of a curency than collectible, there wouldn't need to be a USD value attached to it. as a few have been vehement in their arguments here that CC's will soon replace all government issus currency but they continually reference the price of BTC, ETH, LTC etc. In theory if their end game is CC's taking over, then their USD value matters not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kutulu 1,672 Posted November 29, 2017 Pulled about 75 Grand out of an s&p 500 fund yesterday. May look to time some end of year run but will probably just start dollar cost averaging back in next year(401k $) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,723 Posted November 29, 2017 When someone brought up the idea that CC will allow people/companies to complete transactions overseas instantly, I thought about the potential fraud aspect in business. As soon as that $ is sent, it's gone. No call to the bank for a stop payment. No positive pay. I see lots of obstacles, and I'm sure I'm just scratching the surface. this is basically what I was saying. the idea was tossed out there that current banking and financial institutions sytems are antequated because they cant instantly wire money. This simply isn't true. financial institutions could have the top technology they want but there are laws, rules, regulations set in place to make sure checks and balances exist when money changes hands. international wire transfers can absolutely be done faster. They won't be because every financial institution has a department watching wires like hawks to make sure everything is on the up and up. You go to your institution, fill out paperwork, their wire department reviews and approves it and sends it to the receving party whose own institution has a wire department doing the same thing on their end before passing it into their bank account. you think any institution is going to be like "okay mr punjabi haadad, you want to wire 1.2 milion to Iraq?" Just sign and click here..... done. they have their money now". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tanatastic 2,062 Posted November 30, 2017 Coinbase is a bit screwy today. They are overloaded with so many new people wanting to buy/sell. I just ordered a small 300$ amount and they canceled the order after saying it was ok. The subreddit is also reporting outages etc. I’d really like a better more stable buy/sell platform as smart hackers should be stealing from them during this bit of unrest. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted November 30, 2017 Welp, Im in on ETH and LTC. I felt like todays dip was as good time as any. Relatively small with some play money I had, but Im in. My brother is going to come over this weekend, move it all (including) the BTC I already had to a more secure place than coinbase. Then Im not touching nuttin. Wake me up when its either zero or 200k. I give a 75% chance of tanking but its worth it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,945 Posted November 30, 2017 based on the economy of that country? think of all the factors that make the dollar weak or when the dollar is strong. i thin Cubans point was that if it was more of a curency than collectible, there wouldn't need to be a USD value attached to it. as a few have been vehement in their arguments here that CC's will soon replace all government issus currency but they continually reference the price of BTC, ETH, LTC etc. In theory if their end game is CC's taking over, then their USD value matters not. I dont believe cryptos will supplant fiat currencies. But I do believe they will grow to compete with them. Cubans comment about cryptos needing intrinsic value to be a considered a real currency off the mark. Valuing fiat currencies is a complicated mix of factors, but being tied to a real commodity is no longer part of that equation. In reality, the US dollar has no more or less intrinsic value than any other type of currency. People trade fiat currencies every day on the foreign exchange market based on speculation and other factors. The NASDAQ futures announcement is a strong signal that cryptos could continue to gain traction and even be traded like fiat currencies some day. Cubans a smart guy and has made a lot of money, but I have to question how much he knows about valuing currency. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,983 Posted November 30, 2017 Welp, Im in on ETH and LTC. I felt like todays dip was as good time as any. Relatively small with some play money I had, but Im in. My brother is going to come over this weekend, move it all (including) the BTC I already had to a more secure place than coinbase. Then Im not touching nuttin. Wake me up when its either zero or 200k. I give a 75% chance of tanking but its worth it. Ha ha. I like it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,945 Posted November 30, 2017 And now this: You wont be able to hide your profits from the IRS on coinbase much longer. https://www.yahoo.com/tech/coinbase-ordered-turn-over-data-235635616.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 30, 2017 Coinbase is a bit screwy today. They are overloaded with so many new people wanting to buy/sell. I just ordered a small 300$ amount and they canceled the order after saying it was ok. The subreddit is also reporting outages etc. I’d really like a better more stable buy/sell platform as smart hackers should be stealing from them during this bit of unrest.I know the transaction sites aren’t necessarily using blockchain in their sales, but one would think the minds who brought you this uber safe, efficient and sophisticated technology could figure out how to run a website? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 30, 2017 do I have to send from coinbase to my wallet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,589 Posted November 30, 2017 do I have to send from coinbase to my wallet No you cant leave it on Coinbase, I wouldnt but you can. What wallet did you get other than Coinbase? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 30, 2017 No you cant leave it on Coinbase, I wouldnt but you can. What wallet did you get other than Coinbase? blockchain I focked up and bought bitcoin anyway and my max was only 750 (CC) my bank isn't hooked in yet such a noob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,589 Posted November 30, 2017 blockchain I focked up and bought bitcoin anyway and my max was only 750 (CC) my bank isn't hooked in yet such a noob Are you trying to transfer it to a different wallet or are you just pissed that you bought the wrong thing? You can sell on Coinbase it will go into your USD wallet and then you can buy Ether instantly, if thats what you are trying to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 30, 2017 Are you trying to transfer it to a different wallet or are you just pissed that you bought the wrong thing? You can sell on Coinbase it will go into your USD wallet and then you can buy Ether instantly, if thats what you are trying to do. It's not letting me sell it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 30, 2017 It worked! Of course I lost like 100 in feed, but it worked. thanks dude 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 30, 2017 How do I send it to blockchain from coinbase Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,589 Posted November 30, 2017 How do I send it to blockchain from coinbase Go to your accounts within Coinbase, click the crypto you are trying to send, click the paper airplane in the top right corner you should be prompted at that time to enter the amount you are trying to send and what address you are trying to send to. Go to your wallet (I've never heard of the wallet you are using can I see the URL?) go to the crypto you are trying to send, you should see your deposit address, copy that address into Coinbase. Click send from Coinbase. Also very important, never ever send BTC to a ETH or visa versa. Only send a BTC to a BTC address, ETH to and ETH, LTC to and LTC address. If you don't they will be lost. You probably already knew this but I had to say it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 462 Posted November 30, 2017 Good buying opportunity pull back atm... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 30, 2017 Go to your accounts within Coinbase, click the crypto you are trying to send, click the paper airplane in the top right corner you should be prompted at that time to enter the amount you are trying to send and what address you are trying to send to. Go to your wallet (I've never heard of the wallet you are using can I see the URL?) go to the crypto you are trying to send, you should see your deposit address, copy that address into Coinbase. Click send from Coinbase. Also very important, never ever send BTC to a ETH or visa versa. Only send a BTC to a BTC address, ETH to and ETH, LTC to and LTC address. If you don't they will be lost. You probably already knew this but I had to say it. did not. very new to this. Thank you much Don't see an airplane https://www.blockchain.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joneo 556 Posted November 30, 2017 Once you guys understand blockchain let me and and get back with me, then we can have a realistic conversation about this. https://youtu.be/OStuYmsMGg4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 30, 2017 I figured it out 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mmmmm...beer 803 Posted November 30, 2017 I found that interview with Cuban to be incitful and interesting. He describes crypto as "collectables". Makes sense if you think about it. How would one invest in the IA stuff he's going in about I wonder? We'd be ground floor for that. Especially some of the medical IA he's speaking of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 30, 2017 I found that interview with Cuban to be incitful and interesting. He describes crypto as "collectables". Makes sense if you think about it. How would one invest in the IA stuff he's going in about I wonder? We'd be ground floor for that. It seems like a sham to me. but what's $750 going to cost me? Seems worthwhile to take a flyer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mmmmm...beer 803 Posted November 30, 2017 It seems like a sham to me. but what's $750 going to cost me? Seems worthwhile to take a flyer It will be worth as much as a guy is willing to pay for it. Could keep going crazy.. who knows? I almost see it like baseball cards... were HUGE for awhile.. then they got greedy.. sh!t fell apart. Might not happen here.. maybe it will. The hot thing right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,580 Posted November 30, 2017 I just used the money from the DNDL, I should be good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mmmmm...beer 803 Posted November 30, 2017 I just used the money from the DNDL, I should be good. Sweet! I'm back in! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,983 Posted November 30, 2017 I just used the money from the DNDL, I should be good. Hopefully the Hero World Challenge covered the processing fees for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,589 Posted November 30, 2017 It will be worth as much as a guy is willing to pay for it. Could keep going crazy.. who knows? I almost see it like baseball cards... were HUGE for awhile.. then they got greedy.. sh!t fell apart. Might not happen here.. maybe it will. The hot thing right now. Oh lordy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 462 Posted November 30, 2017 This crypto bill which is supposed to pass Jan1(?) is nearly identical to one which passed in Japan - cryptos spiked 100% with 2 weeks IIRC there as a result - and one which passed in the EU - and cryptos spiked 80% then. I think a lot of the run-up the last month has been in response to that, but there's more left in the tank I'm thinking. I see ETH touching 600 by year end, and LTC going to about 120 - and BTC may be in the 12000 range. But I see a divergence from that point. I think there is something that novice investors should consider - not when choosing to invest in CCs; that's a different consideration - but how to diversify one's investment in CCs. 1. Pick the ones you think will actually be adopted. There will likely be more than one; just like we have IIRC 168 active currencies in circulation in the world. Public acceptance, combined with those that end up on FOREX or other markets are key here. 2. Dilution. Just considering the top three atm (I think BTC, ETH and LTC are the top 3 right now), realize that BTC is limited to an ironclad 21,000,000 coins. That's how the blockchain was constructed. I believe LTC is similar (though not 100% sure; seems to be some divergence of opinion on this one); limited to about 84,000,000 potential coins; I think ~26,000,000 have been realized atm. ETH is a bit different, but it sounds like the top end is 90,000,000 ETH @ the top - but due to the nature of its base blockchain algorithm, it sounds to me like they have the ability to alter it and increase its supply. I'm not at all sure I'm comfortable with that, but I'm also not 100% versed in this. I don't even think I'm 50% versed in this. It sounds like they have the ability to influence the inflationary nature of ETH at all - but it may be necessary to do so, as the nature of ETH is not just as a transaction currency, but a transaction medium: literally open-source code upon which all sorts of divergent transaction protocols can be built (including Quorum, by JP Morgan-Chase. Read more about it here: http://fortune.com/2016/10/04/jp-morgan-chase-blockchain-ethereum-quorum/). Quorum is interesting, because I think its purpose is to - literally - 'backdoor' the full private nature of CCs, and (like the article describes) try to bridge the gap between the concern of the Powers That Be of being unable to track transactions, and the concerns of the transaction participants, who wish to remain anonymous. I think there are profound implications here, both good and bad. In short: it's why I like ETH so much. I think what ETH is, inoculates itself to a large degree from the concerns many posters have written about: "banning" (which is impossible, but would curtail both acceptance and activity, limiting market penetration obviously) CCs. I think ETH provides its 'users' the ability to build protocols which would 'tick the boxes' of both sides. JP Morgan-Chase ain't no dummies. Anyway: on to the point of what I was getting to. If we all see that the reason that BTC has shot up far ahead in individual value, we can easily conclude that it is because BTC was first to market. But we should also consider dilution. 21,000,000 BTC; no more...ever. Now, IMO, that's fairly meaningless, as one can transact in - literally - endlessly increasingly tiny fractions of BTC (if I'm wrong about that, someone feel free to correct me), but the point really is that the same is true of all other forms of CC (unless someone corrects me, again). So: in rough raw value/market cap (atm; these values bounce all over the place): BTC: 21m x ~9,500 = $199,500,000,000. ETH: 90m x 420 = $37,800,000,000. LTC: 84m x 90 = $7,560,000,000. When it comes to dilution, ETH and LTC are roughly similar; both very roughly have 4x more dilution than does BTC. So: if you multiply the present price of either ETC or LTC by 4 (you can be exact if you wish; LTC is exactly 4; ETH needs to be multiplied by something close to 4.25), you get a flat baseline of comparative value if you only take into consideration dilution. From that point, you have to ask yourself the questions I posed above. Which is going to be likelier to gain more acceptance, and why? And, if you don't know, and just wish to diversify to maximize your potential profits - and wish to assume that each have an equal chance - then realize which one presents the best value at the moment: LTC represents the best value. If you were to come up an apples-to-apples dilution price for each CC unit we're talking about here, then know that for every BTC you can buy @ 9500USD; it isn't just that you could buy 22.61ETH, or 105.56 LTC. You're really buying 26.39 LTC (because you have to multiply by 4 to get to comparable dilution valuation). You'rereally buying 5.02 ETH. So. If you're going to buy BTC, realize that its potential - against the others - has been ~26 times more realized than LTC; and ~5x more realized than ETH. It's why I haven't purchased any BTC. Now, there's no doubt that there is a major factor pushing BTC atm: public awareness, and being the cutting edge of acceptance. But: I think that BTC's rate of growth will slow in comparison to the other two - if all three gain equal acceptance (and there are major arguments to support the idea that LTC may actually be more widely used than BTC in the future, and ETH's potential has more to offer than either of the other two). So - considering that - I have put 60% of my investment in ETH, and 40% in LTC, and I will continue to adjust that ratio as market responses dictate. I am bullish on ETH because I consider it similar to Android in some sense, in that it is open-source, and much can be done on it beyond simply being a currency; I think it is a transaction medium; terms of agreements can be encoded with it. I am bullish on LTC, because I think BTC's valuation is priced too far ahead of LTC, and that gives me far more potential headroom gains in LTC than BTC. Unless BTC is the one that is accepted, and LTC isn't. I think that both will be, so I think I'm good there. Unless someone wants to splash some credible cold water on any of that, that's what is driving my decisions on this stuff. Long-winded. That's what I do. But I wanted to get what I'm thinking across properly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mmmmm...beer 803 Posted November 30, 2017 Oh lordy. The "craze"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,723 Posted November 30, 2017 What's the best "wallet" if coinbase sucks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,945 Posted November 30, 2017 Rumors floating that the Fed will develop its own crypto currency. Whats the point of that exactly? If its backed by the US govt, how would it be valued separately from the dollar? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,723 Posted November 30, 2017 Rumors floating that the Fed will develop its own crypto currency. Whats the point of that exactly? If its backed by the US govt, how would it be valued separately from the dollar? Simply a digital way to pay without ever carrying cash or CC balances? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
