I find it hard to not see trans as mental illness...

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

Just now, jerryskids said:

I honestly don't know how to process this.  As an analogy, are you familiar with body integrity identity disorder (BIID)?  ChatGPT:

Is it a mental illness?  Yes, again from ChatGPT:

By your argument, such people do not have a mental illness, but were born into bodies that had working eyes, or two arms.  The solution therefore is to blind them or cut off a limb, right?  

That doesn’t seem like a reasonable analogy to me. I doubt most experts would regard it as one. 

[jerryskids 6,546]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

That doesn’t seem like a reasonable analogy to me. I doubt most experts would regard it as one. 

Why not?  Their mind says that they should be blind.  They were born in the wrong body; one with working eyes.  The solution should be to blind them.   

[Fireballer 2,639]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Why not?  Their mind says that they should be blind.  They were born in the wrong body; one with working eyes.  The solution should be to blind them.   

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

25 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

That doesn’t seem like a reasonable analogy to me. I doubt most experts would regard it as one. 

It is absolutely a reasonable analogy. WTF?

[Strike 5,181]

1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

It is absolutely a reasonable analogy. WTF?

It destroys his entire argument; therefore, it must not be reasonable......

[Fireballer 2,639]

28 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t know. What I do know is all throughout recorded history we have had a small percentage of people who fall into this category. For thousands of years their only option, other than to hide their thoughts from the public, was to pretend to be the sex they really should have been in the first place- transvestites, cross dressers, etc. Now we have the science to actually deal with this issue properly. 

How exactly is science dealing with this issue properly?  

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

Just now, Strike said:

It destroys his entire argument; therefore, it must not be reasonable......

Yep.  It's that break from reality that we've come to know with the left.  They are LITERALLY denying reality.

[Strike 5,181]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

How exactly is science dealing with this issue properly?  

By cutting perfectly healthy penises off.

[supermike80 1,794]

9 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Why not?  Their mind says that they should be blind.  They were born in the wrong body; one with working eyes.  The solution should be to blind them.   

Anorexia is a better analogy.  

[Fireballer 2,639]

Just now, supermike80 said:

Anorexia is a better analogy.  

Born in the wrong body

[jerryskids 6,546]

4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Anorexia is a better analogy.  

I thought of anorexia (and bulimia) but went with BIID because it would theoretically involve surgery/procedures to make the patient's body "right." 

But those work as well.   

[Mark Davis 338]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

But that’s part of the problem. You, and many others here, are attempting to ascribe layman’s terms to mental illness and you can’t do it, anymore than you can use layman’s terms to describe quantum physics. 
Mental illness is a very complicated subject. I don’t pretend to understand it. On this subject, as with other subjects that I don’t understand I rely on the experts to tell me. In this day of Trumpian anti-intellectualism trusting experts is not a popular move. But it’s the right move. 

I know what xy and xx chromosomes mean. It’s like understanding why the sky is blue. My little girl could tell me it’s green. However, I shouldn’t lie to her to make her believe something that is factually false.  It only harms her going forward and indulging these delusions is just that. That’s what you are essentially promoting. 

[Beaker15 233]

It is not surprising that the folks in here who aren't very bright don’t believe that trans is a mental illness.

[Mark Davis 338]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

In Hawaii in the early 20th century, farmers dynamited rock structures in order to bring water from one side of several  islands where nothing grew, to the other side, making the sugar plantations rich. At the time this was done, this move was opposed by religious missionaries who argued “if God wanted water to be on that side He would have put it there.” Aren’t you making a similar argument here? If scientists can change what you regard as “reality” why shouldn’t they? 

You’re reaching here IMO.  The more appropriate analogy to this story would be scientifically I would advocate that the water would help things grow because it’s based in fact. Your argument is more the religious or spiritual belief that just because you want to believe something it should therefore be considered correct.  
 

If you have xx chromosomes and female reproductive parts you’re a girl. If you have xy chromosomes and male reproductive organs you’re a boy. I realize there are some specific cases of shades in the middle. But for the majority of people they fall directly into one of these two categories. You’re asking for someone’s belief to trump (yes I realize the irony) what biologically they factually are. In this case I submit to you that it is you taking the side of religion and feeling versus one of objective and scientific fact. 

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

1 minute ago, Mark Davis said:

You’re reaching here IMO.  The more appropriate analogy to this story would be scientifically I would advocate that the water would help things grow because it’s based in fact. Your argument is more the religious or spiritual belief that just because you want to believe something it should therefore be considered correct.  
 

If you have xx chromosomes and female reproductive parts you’re a girl. If you have xy chromosomes and male reproductive organs you’re a boy. I realize there are some specific cases of shades in the middle. But for the majority of people they fall directly into one of these two categories. You’re asking for someone’s belief to trump (yes I realize the irony) what biologically they factually are. In this case I submit to you that it is you taking the side of religion and feeling versus one of objective and scientific fact. 

No it’s not a spiritual or religious belief. It’s science. 

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

Look, you guys need to realize all the people you are rejecting here: 

Psychiatry. org

World Health Organization 

American Medical Association

Canadian Institute of Health Research 

American Psychiatric Association 

National Health Services, United Kingdom

Scientific American 

 

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Nearly every reputable medical authority on the planet. Are they all woke? Or stupid? Apparently you guys think so. I’m gonna continue to rely on them. 

[jbycho 577]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Look, you guys need to realize all the people you are rejecting here: 

Psychiatry. org

World Health Organization 

American Medical Association

Canadian Institute of Health Research 

American Psychiatric Association 

National Health Services, United Kingdom

Scientific American 

 

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Nearly every reputable medical authority on the planet. Are they all woke? Or stupid? Apparently you guys think so. I’m gonna continue to rely on them. 

Trans are mentally ill. 

[Mark Davis 338]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

No it’s not a spiritual or religious belief. It’s science. 

Again, unless chromosomes and what we’ve long known about sexes to be true somehow has unraveled, you’re making a statement that is false.  I haven’t stated anything that isn’t scientifically factual to make my case. You’re bringing feelings and beliefs in to justify your position.  Someone’s feelings or beliefs aren’t facts. 

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

Just now, Mark Davis said:

Again, unless chromosomes and what we’ve long known about sexes to be true somehow has unraveled, you’re making a statement that is false.  I haven’t stated anything that isn’t scientifically factual to make my case. You’re bringing feelings and beliefs in to justify your position.  Someone’s feelings or beliefs aren’t facts. 

I’m not a scientist or a doctor but I’m referring you to them. They almost unanimously agree this is not a mental illness. I don’t think they’re relying on feelings. 

[jbycho 577]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m not a scientist or a doctor but I’m referring you to them. They almost unanimously agree this is not a mental illness. I don’t think they’re relying on feelings. 

They are mentally ill. 

[jerryskids 6,546]

10 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Look, you guys need to realize all the people you are rejecting here: 

Psychiatry. org

World Health Organization 

American Medical Association

Canadian Institute of Health Research 

American Psychiatric Association 

National Health Services, United Kingdom

Scientific American 

 

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Nearly every reputable medical authority on the planet. Are they all woke? Or stupid? Apparently you guys think so. I’m gonna continue to rely on them. 

All of these groups are political, lobbying organizations.  

Scientific American has had nothing to do with science for years, we've discussed this.

Use your own words to explain why you think BIID is different than trans.   

[Strike 5,181]

10 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m not a scientist or a doctor but I’m referring you to them. They almost unanimously agree this is not a mental illness. I don’t think they’re relying on feelings. 

STOP THIS.  It isn't true and you use that same line in every argument.  

[Fireballer 2,639]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Look, you guys need to realize all the people you are rejecting here: 

Psychiatry. org

World Health Organization 

American Medical Association

Canadian Institute of Health Research 

American Psychiatric Association 

National Health Services, United Kingdom

Scientific American 

 

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Nearly every reputable medical authority on the planet. Are they all woke? Or stupid? Apparently you guys think so. I’m gonna continue to rely on them. 

Tim, again, you obviously gobble up what “authoritative” sources tell you. These orgs do no research.  All of their stances are rooted from a single tentacle…WPATH infiltrated academia.  That’s it. ALL of the trans ideology is born from a single grain from the DSM that says it not a mental illness due to fear of societal “perception”.  That’s it.  That single statement based on feelings, and not research, has molded society over decades.  Seriously dude, get out of your echo chamber. 

[TheNewGirl 1,339]

23 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m not a scientist or a doctor but I’m referring you to them. They almost unanimously agree this is not a mental illness. I don’t think they’re relying on feelings. 

What are they relying on? 

How are you and they providing factual PROOF that someone was born the opposite sex of what they "should be?" 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

11 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

What are they relying on? 

How are you and they providing factual PROOF that someone was born the opposite sex of what they "should be?" 

 

You guys (and girl sorry) are all dismissing  the scientists and then asking me, a layman to explain the science to you. Incredibly absurd. 

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

22 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Tim, again, you obviously gobble up what “authoritative” sources tell you. These orgs do no research.  All of their stances are rooted from a single tentacle…WPATH infiltrated academia.  That’s it. ALL of the trans ideology is born from a single grain from the DSM that says it not a mental illness due to fear of societal “perception”.  That’s it.  That single statement based on feelings, and not research, has molded society over decades.  Seriously dude, get out of your echo chamber. 

Perhaps you’re correct that they all get it from the same source. I have no idea. Nor do I care, because if they all agree about that source then I have no good reason to doubt it. 
@jerryskids is wrong. These are not political advocacy groups. They’re scientists and doctors with the best knowledge the world currently has on this subject. 

[jbycho 577]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You guys (and girl sorry) are all dismissing  the scientists and then asking me, a layman to explain the science to you. Incredibly absurd. 

I'm not asking you.

I'm telling you they are mentally ill. 

Some things in life simply don't need deep thought science to explain some obvious sicknesses.

[jerryskids 6,546]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Perhaps you’re correct that they all get it from the same source. I have no idea. Nor do I care, because if they all agree about that source then I have no good reason to doubt it. 
@jerryskids is wrong. These are not political advocacy groups. They’re scientists and doctors with the best knowledge the world currently has on this subject. 

No, I'm not wrong on that.  They are absolutely, positively political advocacy groups.  No amount of strong, mistaken words on your part changes that fact.

Tell us in your own words why you think BIID is a mental disorder, but trans isn't.   

[Fireballer 2,639]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Perhaps you’re correct that they all get it from the same source. I have no idea. Nor do I care, because if they all agree about that source then I have no good reason to doubt it. 
@jerryskids is wrong. These are not political advocacy groups. They’re scientists and doctors with the best knowledge the world currently has on this subject. 

LMAO…that went right over your head.  Please proceed with your blind followership.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

16 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You guys (and girl sorry) are all dismissing  the scientists and then asking me, a layman to explain the science to you. Incredibly absurd. 

YOU'RE the one defending your absurd position.  You somehow believe the "scientists" but can't explain the very same argument they convinced YOU with?  Can't give us any FACTS?

You sound like a guy who's just parroting talking points.

[KSB2424 3,148]

On 10/13/2019 at 12:33 PM, KSB2424 said:

For me,  the thing that irks me is the constant push to try and make society believe it is totally “normal”.   

They are people and should be treated with respect.  Just like a person with depression or bi-polar or etc.  however we don’t celebrate their condition or try and say there is not something abnormal.

 

I was about to type something similar to the above then thought....."Wait, didn't I post in this thread already?".  So yeah, I agree with this stud above.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,903]

Sex change operations for children.  Wow. Something those Nazi scientists would do.  

[Tebok 282]

MAGAs show us everything they've got

They keep obsessing over women with cawks

Trans drives them wild, they make them crazy

They try to score a message-board win

They think trans a mental illness, a sin
Trans drives them wild, it makes them crazy

They keep on shoutin', MAGAs keep on shoutin'

 

They want to rock and roll all night

And trans obsess every day.

 

Trans lookin' fancy; MAGA like their style
Secret boners that go on for a while

Hit the category trans all day on Porn Hub

Every second gives them a big chub

Trans drives them wild, it makes them crazy

They keep on shoutin', MAGAs keep on shoutin'

 

They want to rock and roll all night

And trans obsess every day.

 

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Sex change operations for children.  Wow. Something those Nazi scientists would do.  

Trans doctors remind me of the doctor from the Human Centipede movies.  No different.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,903]

5 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Trans doctors remind me of the doctor from the Human Centipede movies.  No different.

The first duty of a real man is to protect women and children.  Tim and Rusty have failed on that account. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

8 minutes ago, Tebok said:

MAGAs show us everything they've got

They keep obsessing over women with cawks

Trans drives them wild, they make them crazy

They try to score a message-board win

They think trans a mental illness, a sin
Trans drives them wild, it makes them crazy

They keep on shoutin', MAGAs keep on shoutin'

 

They want to rock and roll all night

And trans obsess every day.

 

Trans lookin' fancy; MAGA like their style
Secret boners that go on for a while

Hit the category trans all day on Porn Hub

Every second gives them a big chub

Trans drives them wild, it makes them crazy

They keep on shoutin', MAGAs keep on shoutin'

 

They want to rock and roll all night

And trans obsess every day.

 

 

Two things:

1. I respect the attempt, not the best, but it's much better than most responses. 

2. It's funny, just today at my company we had to take an HR e-learning module.  1 out of every 3 "scenarios" where they were talking about at work discrimination, bullying, things you should go to HR, etc.  there was a Trans person as the main character.  It's been the trendy, new and cool "marginalized" group the past few years and thus.....everywhere.  No one is obsessed, they are just commenting on what's out there in the mainstream.  Duh.

[RLLD 4,143]

16 minutes ago, Tebok said:

MAGAs show us everything they've got

They keep obsessing over women with cawks

Trans drives them wild, they make them crazy

They try to score a message-board win

They think trans a mental illness, a sin
Trans drives them wild, it makes them crazy

They keep on shoutin', MAGAs keep on shoutin'

 

They want to rock and roll all night

And trans obsess every day.

 

Trans lookin' fancy; MAGA like their style
Secret boners that go on for a while

Hit the category trans all day on Porn Hub

Every second gives them a big chub

Trans drives them wild, it makes them crazy

They keep on shoutin', MAGAs keep on shoutin'

 

They want to rock and roll all night

And trans obsess every day.

 

 

  

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

47 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

No, I'm not wrong on that.  They are absolutely, positively political advocacy groups.  No amount of strong, mistaken words on your part changes that fact.

Tell us in your own words why you think BIID is a mental disorder, but trans isn't.   

Here are my own words: 

1. I have no idea about BIID, having never heard of it before. But if the groups I cited, who are NOT POLITICAl, think it’s a mental disorder then it is. 
2. Trans in not a mental disorder because the groups I cited says it isn’t. 

[Mark Davis 338]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m not a scientist or a doctor but I’m referring you to them. They almost unanimously agree this is not a mental illness. I don’t think they’re relying on feelings. 

What would a DNA test on a sample from a trans person tell you about their sex?  
 

We both know the answer but that’s the point. You’re asking me to believe an opinion and I’m choosing to believe what science tells us. I used the chromosome argument, I can use DNA as a substantive case, there is nothing other than someone’s feeling to counter it. 

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

43 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

YOU'RE the one defending your absurd position.  You somehow believe the "scientists" but can't explain the very same argument they convinced YOU with?  Can't give us any FACTS?

You sound like a guy who's just parroting talking points.

They didn’t convince me with any argument. They don’t need to. All they have to do is say that the science points in that direction, and I accept their word for it.