PPR no 2 pick...Zeke/Barkley...Discuss

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,584]

I keep going back and forth on these 2 guys, I wanna take Barkley but Giants sucks, Cowboys should be the best team in the East, and with the additions on offense could be even better, Zeke good bet to lead league in rushing and tds

 

[jrokh 569]

Giants O-line should be better, plus Barkley is playing for the big payday Zeke already got. Zeke is probably safer, just for durability, but play to win, so it’s Barkley for me.

[polecatt 403]

I would pick Zeke. He's more durable, on a better team and has been as consistent as any RB the past 4 seasons when on the field, which is almost always. I expect him to be more involved in the passing game under McCarthy, and it's not like his receiving numbers have been bad before.

I really don't get the big fuss around Barkley. Don't get me wrong he's a top notch fantasy RB1, but I don't see why he's a consensus top 2 pick. It kind of reminds me of when David Johnson was anointed as the best fantasy RB ever a few years ago, yet he hasn't put up RB1 numbers since. I'm not saying Barkley is going to take such a fall, but there's a few guys with the same potential.

[jrokh 569]

28 minutes ago, polecatt said:

I really don't get the big fuss around Barkley. Don't get me wrong he's a top notch fantasy RB1, but I don't see why he's a consensus top 2 pick

I don't know but people who know a lot more about football than any of us ranked Barkley the best RB in football...

https://www.bigblueview.com/2020/7/9/21318644/saquon-barkley-ranked-nfl-best-rb-by-league-executives-ny-giants

[polecatt 403]

3 minutes ago, jrokh said:

I don't know but people who know a lot more about football than any of us ranked Barkley the best RB in football...

https://www.bigblueview.com/2020/7/9/21318644/saquon-barkley-ranked-nfl-best-rb-by-league-executives-ny-giants

Well, it's not exactly about who is the best. They're talking about the most talented, and he very well may be. Not really for me to say yes or no. There's a lot of talented RBs.

Fantasy football is about who is the most productive. Big difference. A TD run straight through a hole you could drive a mack truck through is just as good as one where the runner breaks numerous tackles, makes some dazzling cuts, and dives through the defense to break the goal line at the pylon.

The razzle dazzle is fun to watch, but to me it also says high risk for injury and perhaps inconsistency.

[jrokh 569]

13 minutes ago, polecatt said:

Well, it's not exactly about who is the best. They're talking about the most talented, and he very well may be. Not really for me to say yes or no. There's a lot of talented RBs.

Fantasy football is about who is the most productive. Big difference. A TD run straight through a hole you could drive a mack truck through is just as good as one where the runner breaks numerous tackles, makes some dazzling cuts, and dives through the defense to break the goal line at the pylon.

The razzle dazzle is fun to watch, but to me it also says high risk for injury and perhaps inconsistency.

Well than it sounds like your argument should be more about health, which is fine. I agree that Zeke is likelier the 'safer' pick. However, when Barkley was healthy his rookie year he put up 2000 yards from scrimmage, 91 rec, and 15 td's. That translates pretty well for Fantasy, does it not? He did that with a crummy OL and a shot QB. Now he has in theory, a much better line and a young, mobile QB. As I mentioned earlier, he also wants to get paid. He saw what Zeke and CMC just got, and he wants more. In order to do that he needs to deliver this season... If all that won't convince you, perhaps this might:

 

 

 

[AxeElf 787]

I'm probly not the one to axe, since I'd take Derrick Henry #1 overall.

[polecatt 403]

19 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Well than it sounds like your argument should be more about health, which is fine. I agree that Zeke is likelier the 'safer' pick. However, when Barkley was healthy his rookie year he put up 2000 yards from scrimmage, 91 rec, and 15 td's. That translates pretty well for Fantasy, does it not? He did that with a crummy OL and a shot QB. Now he has in theory, a much better line and a young, mobile QB. As I mentioned earlier, he also wants to get paid. He saw what Zeke and CMC just got, and he wants more. In order to do that he needs to deliver this season... If all that won't convince you, perhaps this might:

 

 

 

Health is a concern with Barkley, that's for sure, but his numbers were down a good bit across the board last season regardless.

I seriously doubt he was going to make up 600 yards, 40 catches, and 7 TDs in the 3 games missed. Maybe half that. Still an excellent season.

Besides the difference between the two, best case scenario, is marginal at best, IMO. I think Zeke is just as likely to have a monster season or game as Barkley. He's just more reliable week to week.

If somebody wants to take Barkley, it's fine, but I just don't see why he's been anointed the best RB by so many. Especially after a down season.

 

[jrokh 569]

4 minutes ago, polecatt said:

Health is a concern with Barkley, that's for sure, but his numbers were down a good bit across the board last season regardless.

I seriously doubt he was going to make up 600 yards, 40 catches, and 7 TDs in the 3 games missed. Maybe half that. Still an excellent season.

Besides the difference between the two, best case scenario, is marginal at best, IMO. I think Zeke is just as likely to have a monster season or game as Barkley. He's just more reliable week to week.

If somebody wants to take Barkley, it's fine, but I just don't see why he's been anointed the best RB by so many. Especially after a down season.

 

I explained it to you, with many examples. You don't have to agree, but the reasons are obvious why so many have anointed him. It was the same reasons he was a sure fire top 5 pick before the 2018 draft. He is Bigger, Faster, Stronger, and Quicker than everyone else, and he is a plus pass catcher to boot....

[stonewall 647]

Just roll with Cook....

[Smileseers 54]

The premise of a shot Qb in Eli is a false premise to me.  Eli checked down to Barkley in his rookie season more than Barkley will ever get in receptions.  That was the Giants game plan every week.  

The Cowboys will score more offensive points than the Giants.

I am biased because I own Zeke in a Keeper league but I would not trade him straight up for Barkley this year.

[jrokh 569]

11 minutes ago, Smileseers said:

The premise of a shot Qb in Eli is a false premise to me.  Eli checked down to Barkley in his rookie season more than Barkley will ever get in receptions.  That was the Giants game plan every week.  

The Cowboys will score more offensive points than the Giants.

I am biased because I own Zeke in a Keeper league but I would not trade him straight up for Barkley this year.

The premise of the Cowboys scoring more offensive points than the Giants being better for Zeke is a false premise since they have better WR’s. That’s where the bulk of the difference will go. The question is who is a better fantasy RB. Of course that will be Barkley, since he is better in real football...

[weepaws 2,460]

No question OP, the Zeke.  

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,584]

yah this is what I thought, so divided

my thought is Barkley has the best shot to be the no 1 FF RB in PPR, Zeke wont do that I am pretty sure of

to the one who said Cook

cmon man, dude wont make it thru 12 games, I fell for that last year

 

[weepaws 2,460]

59 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

yah this is what I thought, so divided

my thought is Barkley has the best shot to be the no 1 FF RB in PPR, Zeke wont do that I am pretty sure of

to the one who said Cook

cmon man, dude wont make it thru 12 games, I fell for that last year

 

He played in 14 last season,  one more game than Barkley, and had the second best avg per game in Ppr, seven more points per game than Barkley.  

Mmm.  

Thanks. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,584]

12 minutes ago, weepaws said:

He played in 14 last season,  one more game than Barkley, and had the second best avg per game in Ppr, seven more points per game than Barkley.  

Mmm.  

Thanks. 

yep, and I lost cause he got hurt when it mattered and Mike Boone was my option

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

I'd rather have Elliott than Barkley, but I won't be upset if I have the #3 pick and McCaffrey and Elliott went 1/2.

[Bier Meister 1,514]

Barkley: new qb, o-line is so-so, potential injury issues.... should have more rec than zeke (should offset the td differential), could be a young qb's best friend with check downs, explosive (can score from anywhere on the field.

 

Zeke: Mccarthy hasn't made good use of his rb's, more wr weapons... i believe he has a higher floor than barkley, but lower ceiling.  If dallas plays to their potential he could be running out the clock at the end of games. more consistent back.

 

Kamara: I think he rebounds and comes closer to his 18 numbers than 19.  he started off pretty well until injured.  his recs should give him a nice floor. brees loves passing to his rbs.

[weepaws 2,460]

1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

yep, and I lost cause he got hurt when it mattered and Mike Boone was my option

 

Bad luck.  

And doesn’t mean it won’t happen with Barkely or any other rb, it’s a game of luck.  

Sorry that it cost you  

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,584]

31 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

Barkley: new qb, o-line is so-so, potential injury issues.... should have more rec than zeke (should offset the td differential), could be a young qb's best friend with check downs, explosive (can score from anywhere on the field.

 

Zeke: Mccarthy hasn't made good use of his rb's, more wr weapons... i believe he has a higher floor than barkley, but lower ceiling.  If dallas plays to their potential he could be running out the clock at the end of games. more consistent back.

 

Kamara: I think he rebounds and comes closer to his 18 numbers than 19.  he started off pretty well until injured.  his recs should give him a nice floor. brees loves passing to his rbs.

I am actually considering Kamara as well, I think he bounces back too, but damn if he didnt kill me in my keeper league

Barkley? New QB?  Daniel Jones played most of last year

[weepaws 2,460]

33 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

Barkley: new qb, o-line is so-so, potential injury issues.... should have more rec than zeke (should offset the td differential), could be a young qb's best friend with check downs, explosive (can score from anywhere on the field.

 

Zeke: Mccarthy hasn't made good use of his rb's, more wr weapons... i believe he has a higher floor than barkley, but lower ceiling.  If dallas plays to their potential he could be running out the clock at the end of games. more consistent back.

 

Kamara: I think he rebounds and comes closer to his 18 numbers than 19.  he started off pretty well until injured.  his recs should give him a nice floor. brees loves passing to his rbs.

I’m sure the Cowboys coach isn’t going to ignore is best player.  

In ppr the Zeke as avg 21 points per season.  

He’s a pretty darn safe bet.  

[Bier Meister 1,514]

39 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I’m sure the Cowboys coach isn’t going to ignore is best player.  

In ppr the Zeke as avg 21 points per season.  

He’s a pretty darn safe bet.  

I believe he is the safest and most consistent of the 3 i mentioned

 

Edit:  last year ppr avgs

Zeke= 19.6

Bakley= 18.7

Kamara= 17.8

 

I owned barkely and kamara in separate leagues last year and these felt like off years.  I think both have more probability of increasing production over zeke... though zeke gives a smaller standard deviation. 

[Bier Meister 1,514]

45 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

I am actually considering Kamara as well, I think he bounces back too, but damn if he didnt kill me in my keeper league

Barkley? New QB?  Daniel Jones played most of last year

newer... he is still pretty young and will need to get some kinks out.... but i think it can be either positive or negative.  

[weepaws 2,460]

I think Kamara is going to rebound also, he said he was hurt during week 6 last year, and played the rest of the season with the injury. 

His first five game avg was 14 points per game non ppr.  

The rest of the reg season, he avg 10.  

So if he’s healthy like he’s been saying he is, he’ll rebound.  

[Bier Meister 1,514]

33 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I think Kamara is going to rebound also, he said he was hurt during week 6 last year, and played the rest of the season with the injury. 

His first five game avg was 14 points per game non ppr.  

The rest of the reg season, he avg 10.  

So if he’s healthy like he’s been saying he is, he’ll rebound.  

Iirc- Op was asking about ppr.  Kamara scored 23, 7, 37, 11.9, 16.8 for weeks 1-5

injured in week 6: still scored 13

missed 2 games, then bye

15.4

22.2

19.2

12.4

7.3

13.9

29

19.7

 

really not bad for a down year.  his biggest deficit was tds/gl carries.  regression to the mean should be coming.  also, all three seasons he has posted 81 rec...could go up from last year

 

[Matt Mueller 146]

Barkley for upside.  Zeke maybe safer.

Zeke has been losing a little efficiency recently 

[AxeElf 787]

2 hours ago, weepaws said:

In ppr the Zeke as avg 21 points per season.

Jeez, that's only like 1.3 points per game.  I'd stay away.

[Einstein's Dog 20]

The thing that has me lean to Zeke is getting Pollard in round 12 to lock up the Dallas running game.  You just don't get that with Barkley, he goes down and you don't have a top ten RB backup on your squad.

Also Zeke already had Covid so it seems like he won't have to sit out any covid related stuff.

[Matt Mueller 146]

35 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

The thing that has me lean to Zeke is getting Pollard in round 12 to lock up the Dallas running game.  You just don't get that with Barkley, he goes down and you don't have a top ten RB backup on your squad.

Also Zeke already had Covid so it seems like he won't have to sit out any covid related stuff.

Boom.  Love that angle.   Agree 

[weepaws 2,460]

44 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

The thing that has me lean to Zeke is getting Pollard in round 12 to lock up the Dallas running game.  You just don't get that with Barkley, he goes down and you don't have a top ten RB backup on your squad.

Also Zeke already had Covid so it seems like he won't have to sit out any covid related stuff.

Great point about the mandemic. 

 

[weepaws 2,460]

46 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Jeez, that's only like 1.3 points per game.  I'd stay away.

Cool. 

[Einstein's Dog 20]

5 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Great point about the mandemic. 

 

Yeah, although I guess Zeke could still test positive even though he had it before.

Being able to have a workhorse backup like Pollard would be more valuable to me this year.  Not just injury but now in case of a positive covid test.

[weepaws 2,460]

2 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Yeah, although I guess Zeke could still test positive even though he had it before.

Being able to have a workhorse backup like Pollard would be more valuable to me this year.  Not just injury but now in case of a positive covid test.

I would agree, i posted not long ago that I’ve never really been a big fan of the hand cuff, but this year it will be a must. 

 

[Ray_T 591]

19 hours ago, Bier Meister said:

Barkley: new qb, o-line is so-so, potential injury issues.... should have more rec than zeke (should offset the td differential), could be a young qb's best friend with check downs, explosive (can score from anywhere on the field.

Well, it is worth noting that Barkley played with a sub par line his whole pro career.   The Giants have now completely re tooled that O line.   

It may take a few games to get the rookies up to speed, but I suspect the run blocking will come a little quicker than the pass blocking (thats usually how it works with new O linemen)

I think even if the line improves moderately, the offense will improve by a lot.  Barkley will have more holes to run through.  Danny Dimes will have more time to throw the ball.  We will see less stalled drives, more TD's.

I wouldnt be surprised if Barkley has the best year of his young career this season.

 

[jrokh 569]

10 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

Well, it is worth noting that Barkley played with a sub par line his whole pro career.   The Giants have now completely re tooled that O line.   

It may take a few games to get the rookies up to speed, but I suspect the run blocking will come a little quicker than the pass blocking (thats usually how it works with new O linemen)

I think even if the line improves moderately, the offense will improve by a lot.  Barkley will have more holes to run through.  Danny Dimes will have more time to throw the ball.  We will see less stalled drives, more TD's.

I wouldnt be surprised if Barkley has the best year of his young career this season.

 

According to PFF, one of the few public media outlets to grade O-linemen, Andrew Thomas has one of the highest Run Blocking grades in college, since they started keeping track. The run blocking will be better this year. All Barkley has to do is stay healthy, and he will be the # 1 back in Fantasy. The main argument for Zeke is he never gets hurt, at least not yet...

 

 

 

 

[Ray_T 591]

1 minute ago, jrokh said:

According to PFF, one of the few public media outlets to grade O-linemen, Andrew Thomas has one of the highest Run Blocking grades in college, since they started keeping track. The run blocking will be better this year. All Barkley has to do is stay healthy, and he will be the # 1 back in Fantasy. The main argument for Zeke is he never gets hurt, at least not yet...

I dont disagree.   But i have found its better to assume O linemen will take a little bit of time to adjust to the pro game.

usually the run blocking comes along faster than the pass blocking.   

This year will not be an exception because he wont have a lot of time in Camp to get up to speed.

like I said before..... early in the year might be the weak part of the year for him.

it may be a bit sloppy for him in the first week or two,  but by midseason I think he will be very good at his position.

its hard not to be excited about this O line moving forward.   in a year or two, this could potentially be the strength of the team.

[Bier Meister 1,514]

56 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

Well, it is worth noting that Barkley played with a sub par line his whole pro career.   The Giants have now completely re tooled that O line.   

It may take a few games to get the rookies up to speed, but I suspect the run blocking will come a little quicker than the pass blocking (thats usually how it works with new O linemen)

I think even if the line improves moderately, the offense will improve by a lot.  Barkley will have more holes to run through.  Danny Dimes will have more time to throw the ball.  We will see less stalled drives, more TD's.

I wouldnt be surprised if Barkley has the best year of his young career this season.

 

I personally think that there is higher probability that both barkley and kamara improve their numbers and zeke remains somewhat similar (higher floor imo).

I have barkley and kamara ranked very closely, then zeke for ppr.

 

also... NYG have a tough early schedule vs the run (pitt, chi, SF, Rams, Dal, Wash)

[weepaws 2,460]

8 hours ago, Bier Meister said:

I personally think that there is higher probability that both barkley and kamara improve their numbers and zeke remains somewhat similar (higher floor imo).

I have barkley and kamara ranked very closely, then zeke for ppr.

 

also... NYG have a tough early schedule vs the run (pitt, chi, SF, Rams, Dal, Wash)

Where do you have Gurley ranked? 

[Bier Meister 1,514]

13 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Where do you have Gurley ranked? 

This grouping:

15. conner

16. fournette

17. Bell

18. Gurley

19. Carson

[weepaws 2,460]

Thank you.