Blacks and success in the education system

[peenie 1,690]

When I lived with my Dad I was caring for my 3 younger siblings, sometimes cooking dinner, cleaning and they were always around, always loud, I rarely had peace and quiet to study. We lived in a very small space. There were always helicopters flying and police cars. It was just not peaceful. Many of my friends would go home to their silent bedrooms and the only noise was the purring of their cat. 

I think you have to factor in home environment and responsibilities. Even if you go to the same school, you may have different academic outcomes due to life outside of the classroom. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

My initial reaction was that the school really f**ked up.  How do you allow a kid to pass not only one grade, but 3 grades, when he's not passing any of them.  After reading the article, that's clearly what happened.  Mom gets some blame, absolutely, but the school deserves the lions share.  I'd say 85% school... 15% mom.  How do you not take 30 seconds out of your day to look at your kids grades?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

I thought kids don’t get left back anymore? 

[avoiding injuries 1,220]

Like others, I found the problem. 
 

“The school failed at their job. They failed. They failed, that's the problem here. They failed. They failed. He didn't deserve that.”

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

Just now, avoiding injuries said:

Like others, I found the problem. 
 

“The school failed at their job. They failed. They failed, that's the problem here. They failed. They failed. He didn't deserve that.”

She's actually not wrong... but she did too, but to a much lesser extent.

[avoiding injuries 1,220]

8 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

She's actually not wrong... but she did too, but to a much lesser extent.

Well, the school probably had well over 1,000 kids. She had what, maybe 12. She also should have a more vested interest in her child than the school. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

19 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

Well, the school probably had well over 1,000 kids. She had what, maybe 12. She also should have a more vested interest in her child than the school. 

Hey, I'm absolutely willing to blame parents when needed, but let's be honest, this isn't 1980.  EVERY school has computers.  Every teacher that kid had and every administrator in that building knew this kid failed virtually every class each year and they still allowed him to pass to the next grade and take the next level class.  The school massively screwed up.  There's really no excuse for what they did.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

If we only spent more money on education. They could at least cheat like the Atlanta schools did. 

[Cdub100 3,381]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Hey, I'm absolutely willing to blame parents when needed, but let's be honest, this isn't 1980.  EVERY school has computers.  Every teacher that kid had and every administrator in that building knew this kid failed virtually every class each year and they still allowed him to pass to the next grade and take the next level class.  The school massively screwed up.  There's really no excuse for what they did.

That's how liberals run schools. Failing kids is mean so everyone just gets passed on to the next level

[peenie 1,690]

Honestly, the way I was taught was not the way my daughter was taught in school. There are things she learned in high school that I didn't learn until college. I don't recall my mother helping me much with my homework, just that she made sure I did my homework. If you consider the large amount of immigrants that came to this country over the years that didn't even speak English, their children were educated without much direct assistance from parents. Why is it so unreasonable to expect teachers to teach kids? 

[Utilit99 4,099]

8 minutes ago, peenie said:

Honestly, the way I was taught was not the way my daughter was taught in school. There are things she learned in high school that I didn't learn until college. I don't recall my mother helping me much with my homework, just that she made sure I did my homework. If you consider the large amount of immigrants that came to this country over the years that didn't even speak English, their children were educated without much direct assistance from parents. Why is it so unreasonable to expect teachers to teach kids? 

My parents were fairly hands off as well, but, If I kept failing classes, or simply doing poorly at all, my parents would have stepped in so fast it would have stopped immediately.  There was no skating by.

[Fireballer 2,383]

7 minutes ago, peenie said:

Honestly, the way I was taught was not the way my daughter was taught in school. There are things she learned in high school that I didn't learn until college. I don't recall my mother helping me much with my homework, just that she made sure I did my homework. If you consider the large amount of immigrants that came to this country over the years that didn't even speak English, their children were educated without much direct assistance from parents. Why is it so unreasonable to expect teachers to teach kids? 

I don't think it's necessarily helping your kids with homework is the key.  Being an informed parent and making sure your kid is getting what they need from the teacher is key.  Also, continually re-enforcing the need for education. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

If only we spent more money. 

[MDC 5,891]

Blacks score better than retards.  

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

To fix education we have to be honest about it.

1.  They try to do too much in elementary school instead of focusing on the 3 Rs.  Thanks to NCLB.  

2.  Society has become passive learning environment where everything comes to you instead of actively pursuing it.

3.  Schools still try to teach kids to become active learners for 1/4 of the day and the rest of the time is passive.  Parents like ours used to kick us out of the house till the street lights were on.  Now as long as the kid is quiet and on their phone, gaming, tik tok etc its ok.

Imagine if schools tried to ban cell phones...parents would flip.  

Teachers today cant keep kids attention because even when their phone is in their bookbag the anxiety is still there.

Few kids today are active learners..and the really smart kids arent pushed because they are mixed with kids that are bad at school.

Need to bring back tracking and stop this insane idea of inclusion.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

18 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

To fix education we have to be honest about it.

1.  They try to do too much in elementary school instead of focusing on the 3 Rs.  Thanks to NCLB.  

2.  Society has become passive learning environment where everything comes to you instead of actively pursuing it.

3.  Schools still try to teach kids to become active learners for 1/4 of the day and the rest of the time is passive.  Parents like ours used to kick us out of the house till the street lights were on.  Now as long as the kid is quiet and on their phone, gaming, tik tok etc its ok.

Imagine if schools tried to ban cell phones...parents would flip.  

Teachers today cant keep kids attention because even when their phone is in their bookbag the anxiety is still there.

Few kids today are active learners..and the really smart kids arent pushed because they are mixed with kids that are bad at school.

Need to bring back tracking and stop this insane idea of inclusion.

NAILED IT!

[DonS 3,067]

39 minutes ago, MDC said:

Blacks score better than retards.  

But can they beat cuttlefish in the "marshmallow test"? 

https://www.cnet.com/news/cuttlefish-show-theyre-as-smart-as-kids-in-marshmallow-test-study/

 

[Strike 3,979]

1 hour ago, peenie said:

Honestly, the way I was taught was not the way my daughter was taught in school. There are things she learned in high school that I didn't learn until college. I don't recall my mother helping me much with my homework, just that she made sure I did my homework. If you consider the large amount of immigrants that came to this country over the years that didn't even speak English, their children were educated without much direct assistance from parents. Why is it so unreasonable to expect teachers to teach kids? 

It's not unreasonable for teachers to teach kids.  That's their job.  It is the parent's responsibility to be involved in the process.  In this case the fault lies mostly with the school district.  They passed this guy on to higher levels on the same subject even when he failed.  That's incompetence or apathy of the highest magnitude.  Whoever did that should be fired and never work in the education field again.

That being said, one of the biggest problems with the predominantly black communities is lack of parental involvement.  There are some kids who make it out of the ghetto and become successful, and I'd bet money that in the majority of those cases the parents were involved and keeping their kids on the right path.  That's why the black kids of successful black people tend to not have the issues of the inner city black kids.  Successful black people know the formula for success, and it involves their participation in their kid's upbringing and education.

[Fireballer 2,383]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

It's not unreasonable for teachers to teach kids.  That's their job.  It is the parent's responsibility to be involved in the process.  In this case the fault lies mostly with the school district.  They passed this guy on to higher levels on the same subject even when he failed.  That's incompetence or apathy of the highest magnitude.  Whoever did that should be fired and never work in the education field again.

That being said, one of the biggest problems with the predominantly black communities is lack of parental involvement.  There are some kids who make it out of the ghetto and become successful, and I'd bet money that in the majority of those cases the parents were involved and keeping their kids on the right path.  That's why the black kids of successful black people tend to not have the issues of the inner city black kids.  Successful black people know the formula for success, and it involves their participation in their kid's upbringing and education.

See Furious Styles from Boyz N the Hood. He made Tre rake leaves while his boys were bangin'.  You could tell early in the movie that Ricky and Dough Boys momma was a failure.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

Hard to believe the black community is more concerned with police than schools. One is avoidable. The other is not. 

[Strike 3,979]

18 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

See Furious Styles from Boyz N the Hood. He made Tre rake leaves while his boys were bangin'.  You could tell early in the movie that Ricky and Dough Boys momma was a failure.

Absolutely.  Great movie.  So, when this movie came out I was working for a juvenile boys rehabilitation facility.  It was a little campus with dorms and an attached school that the kids attended.  Basically, they took in kids from the court system who'd gotten in to trouble but weren't yet full on delinquents.  The majority of the kids came from inner city environments.  Someone who worked at the facility knew John Singleton and was able to get a copy of the movie for the kids to watch before it came out in theaters.  When these kids watched that movie most of them ended up teary eyed.  It really hit home for them and is one of my lasting memories. 

 

[peenie 1,690]

I never saw Boyz N the Hood. 

[peenie 1,690]

3 hours ago, DonS said:

But can they beat cuttlefish in the "marshmallow test"? 

https://www.cnet.com/news/cuttlefish-show-theyre-as-smart-as-kids-in-marshmallow-test-study/

 

I watched a special about animal intelligence and the cuttlefish is very smart!

 

[peenie 1,690]

This isn't about cuttlefish but rather octopus:

 

[Fireballer 2,383]

20 minutes ago, peenie said:

I never saw Boyz N the Hood. 

Your loss

[peenie 1,690]

My sister, who is a high school teacher explained what she felt is the real problem.

She said first, the way they teach children in the United States is not really the best way to teach kids. It’s not fair to expect them to sit all day for hours and focus when they really should have active learning. She cited places like Finland and Norway as having a better system of educating kids.

If she had to make generalizations: She found that parents with good jobs have children that perform well. That kids from more rural areas, no matter if they were white or black are less distracted or are more calm than kid in urban areas. That White kids (believe it or not) were the least knowledgeable in rural areas because they were more focused on learning just enough to work not go on to college. The children who were the most disruptive or the most difficult to teach and that didn’t do any work were the children of black parents who were very poor and who were not interested in their children’s education at all. She said Mexican kids were often more work centered and business minded than college bound. Asian kids did the best not because they were smarter but rather they understand how to do well in school (if that makes sense).

She feels the reason black kids remain low achieving is because unlike white people, blacks don’t have the economic ability to separate themselves. Blacks are stuck together and blacks from all different types have to go to the same school and the bad habits of some effect the overall environment and set the tone for everyone. Whereas White people can take their money and isolate themselves away from low performing people. As a group they can move and create a suitable learning environment based on their abilities where blacks are isolated based on color. 
 

[Utilit99 4,099]

7 minutes ago, peenie said:

My sister, who is a high school teacher explained what she felt is the real problem.

She said first, the way they teach children in the United States is not really the best way to teach kids. It’s not fair to expect them to sit all day for hours and focus when they really should have active learning. She cited places like Finland and Norway as having a better system of educating kids.

If she had to make generalizations: She found that parents with good jobs have children that perform well. That kids from more rural areas, no matter if they were white or black are less distracted or are more calm than kid in urban areas. That White kids (believe it or not) were the least knowledgeable in rural areas because they were more focused on learning just enough to work not go on to college. The children who were the most disruptive or the most difficult to teach and that didn’t do any work were the children of black parents who were very poor and who were not interested in their children’s education at all. She said Mexican kids were often more work centered and business minded than college bound. Asian kids did the best not because they were smarter but rather they understand how to do well in school (if that makes sense).

She feels the reason black kids remain low achieving is because unlike white people, blacks don’t have the economic ability to separate themselves. Blacks are stuck together and blacks from all different types have to go to the same school and the bad habits of some effect the overall environment and set the tone for everyone. Whereas White people can take their money and isolate themselves away from low performing people. As a group they can move and create a suitable learning environment based on their abilities where blacks are isolated based on color. 
 

Your sister should find another line of work. I wouldn't want her teaching this drivel to any of my kids.

[peenie 1,690]

4 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Your sister should find another line of work. I wouldn't want her teaching this drivel to any of my kids.

I asked her to make a generalization. She doesn’t teach how anyone should think about others. She has lots of experience teaching in different environments and I mentioned this thread and asked her if there were any trends to explain why blacks seem to continue to perform poorly compared to other groups. You can choose to disregard her opinion but she is an actual teacher unlike you.

[Strike 3,979]

11 minutes ago, peenie said:

My sister, who is a high school teacher explained what she felt is the real problem.

She said first, the way they teach children in the United States is not really the best way to teach kids. It’s not fair to expect them to sit all day for hours and focus when they really should have active learning. She cited places like Finland and Norway as having a better system of educating kids.

If she had to make generalizations: She found that parents with good jobs have children that perform well. That kids from more rural areas, no matter if they were white or black are less distracted or are more calm than kid in urban areas. That White kids (believe it or not) were the least knowledgeable in rural areas because they were more focused on learning just enough to work not go on to college. The children who were the most disruptive or the most difficult to teach and that didn’t do any work were the children of black parents who were very poor and who were not interested in their children’s education at all. She said Mexican kids were often more work centered and business minded than college bound. Asian kids did the best not because they were smarter but rather they understand how to do well in school (if that makes sense).

She feels the reason black kids remain low achieving is because unlike white people, blacks don’t have the economic ability to separate themselves. Blacks are stuck together and blacks from all different types have to go to the same school and the bad habits of some effect the overall environment and set the tone for everyone. Whereas White people can take their money and isolate themselves away from low performing people. As a group they can move and create a suitable learning environment based on their abilities where blacks are isolated based on color. 
 

Holy fock.  So your sister suffers from similar racism as you?   Are you the children of Al Sharpton?

[Fireballer 2,383]

16 minutes ago, peenie said:

Blacks are stuck together and blacks from all different types have to go to the same school and the bad habits of some effect the overall environment and set the tone for everyone. 

 

So which way do you want?  Attributing failure to black kids being stuck together or complaining about white people moving into historically black neighborhoods?  You cant have it both ways.

[peenie 1,690]

Just now, Strike said:

Holy fock.  So your sister suffers from similar racism as you?   Are you the children of Al Sharpton?

I asked her specific questions about racial groups to explain the differences discussed in this thread. Not sure what is so shocking.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

The most prosperous nation in the world. Never has a country had more power and done less harm than the United States. I didn’t say no harm. Yeah, lets  tear all of it down. Our prisoners go to college while in prison, if they want. 

[Strike 3,979]

Just now, peenie said:

I asked her specific questions about racial groups to explain the differences discussed in this thread. Not sure what is so shocking.

Not really that shocking given your posting history.  Just sad.

[Utilit99 4,099]

7 minutes ago, peenie said:

I asked her to make a generalization. She doesn’t teach how anyone should think. She has lots of experience teaching in different environments and I mentioned this thread and asked her if there were any trends to explain why blacks seem to continue to perform poorly compared to other groups. You can choose to disregard her opinion but she is an actual teacher unlike you.

You keep talking about poverty setting black people apart. Why don't you preach to the people you are talking about to NOT procreate if they can not mentally, physically, or financially afford to raise their kids properly?

Tell people to get stable in life in their jobs and their relationships before they start pumping out the kids.

Problem solved.

[peenie 1,690]

Just now, Fireballer said:

So which way do you want?  Attributing failure to black kids being stuck together or complaining about white people moving into historically black neighborhoods.  You can have it both ways.

I think I wrote that black failure was due to parents being poor and not caring as being why individuals fail. Next I stated that an inability for blacks to be upwardly mobile affects why the overall population of school will not perform as well.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

White people move away from black people. Black people who can move away from black people. Proof it’s not about race. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, peenie said:

I think I wrote that black failure was due to parents being poor and not caring as being why individuals fail. Next I stated that an inability for blacks to be upwardly mobile affects why the overall population of school will not perform as well.

How are they no mobile? And if the parents are poor, why are they pumping out kids? How am I supposed to feel sorry for them?

[Fireballer 2,383]

4 minutes ago, peenie said:

I think I wrote that black failure was due to parents being poor and not caring as being why individuals fail. Next I stated that an inability for blacks to be upwardly mobile affects why the overall population of school will not perform as well.

What about being poor makes them not care?  If you immediately infused money into the system, would they automatically care?  

[peenie 1,690]

3 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

You keep talking about poverty setting black people apart. Why don't you preach to the people you are talking about to NOT procreate if they can not mentally, physically, or financially afford to raise their kids properly?

Tell people to get stable in life in their jobs and their relationships before they start pumping out the kids.

Problem solved.

I tell anyone that will listen to use me as an example of what NOT to do. I made many wrong decisions as a youngster and I had to spend most of my adult life trying to fix my mistakes. I certainly let any young person know, focus on getting an education, support yourself, use contraceptives and date men that love you (shown through actions not just words) and commit to a man that will be a provider and a protector.

[peenie 1,690]

3 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

What about being poor makes them not care?  If you immediately infused money into the system, would they automatically care?  

I didn’t write that poverty was the sole issue. I specifically paired poverty AND not caring. She said that those 2 combined were what she felt produced low performing students.