Saudi Golf Tour

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Leaderboard looks pretty legit.   DJ and Carlos Ortiz tied at the top, Brooks Louis and Reed lurking. Bryson up there

 

who jumps ship next?

[Reality 2,710]

Paul Casey apparently.

 

[bostonlager 2,463]

Just now, Reality said:

Paul Casey apparently.

 

Not surprised. I can see many of the guys in that age 40ish range making the jump. 

[Reality 2,710]

1 minute ago, bostonlager said:

Not surprised. I can see many of the guys in that age 40ish range making the jump. 

Yup, they'd be dumb not to. Shlt load of $$ while playing less. No downside. Most likely to have young'ish families also.

[Bert 1,091]

I see that over rated little biotch Serio is having a tantrum.  

[bostonlager 2,463]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

Yup, they'd be dumb not to. Shlt load of $$ while playing less. No downside. Most likely to have young'ish families also.

I’m on the fence with Justin Rose. It makes perfect sense for him to do it. He may have a loyal bone in his body for the time being. 

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

i mentioned Paul Casey a while ago.  I thought I nailed Kokrak as well but that seems to have been premature, so far. Though he still seems like the perfect fit. 

 

I know I always come off like I am defending LIV. Even though I would want nothing to do with the human rights stuff myself. Im more so defending competition and enjoying the PGA being exposed for what some pros were claiming and PGA was denying until this all got real. 

With every golfer who goes to LIV, the haters proclaim "whatever he's old, whatever he hasn't won anything in so long, whatever he's annoying, whatever he's a crybaby, whatever I didn't like him anyway...."  At some point you're just pretending that it doesn't matter. A leaderboard with DJ, Louis, Grace, Reed, Brooks etc is a quality leaderboard in terms of golf skill and personality. It's a better leaderboard than half the normal PGA events. Hell, if this was 2021, you'd be salivating.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

watching it, one complaint I do have is that some of the announcers are way overplaying the crowd/fans...  "AND THE CROWD IS LOVING IT"... like come on guys, no one expects there to be huge Masters roars for the second event of LIV Golf. .... but there are plenty of fans. I would say it looks similar to any Thursday/Friday tournament round i've been to... which again isn't bad.

[KSB2424 3,083]

[Bert 1,091]

1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

watching it, one complaint I do have is that some of the announcers are way overplaying the crowd/fans...  "AND THE CROWD IS LOVING IT"... like come on guys, no one expects there to be huge Masters roars for the second event of LIV Golf. .... but there are plenty of fans. I would say it looks similar to any Thursday/Friday tournament round i've been to... which again isn't bad.

What network is broadcasting the event?

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

2 minutes ago, Bert said:

What network is broadcasting the event?

none yet. To my knowledge it can be streamed for free on their website and is also being covered by DAZN

[KSB2424 3,083]

[Cruzer 1,992]

3 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

i mentioned Paul Casey a while ago.

Good call there. 

Casey is part of the group who's never going to win a major. Given that, his age, his injury histrory and the fact he's from across the pond anyway - move makes total sense. 

[Cruzer 1,992]

Grace banks $4m for 3 days of work, 2nd place Ortiz cashed $2.125m. 

LIV is about to get a whole lot more players wanting in. 

[edjr 5,563]

9 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Grace banks $4m for 3 days of work, 2nd place Ortiz cashed $2.125m. 

LIV is about to get a whole lot more players wanting in. 

KSB can keep laughing. 

[edjr 5,563]

PGA - John Deere Crassic - A true who's who of who gives a fock.

 

Pos	Player		R4	Thru	Total
1		J. T. Poston	-2	F	-21
T2		E. Grillo	-2	F	-18
T2		C. Bezuidenhout	-5	F	-18
T4		S. Stallings	-1	F	-17
T4		C. Gotterup	-5	F	-17

T6		D. McCarthy	E	F	-16
T6		C. Tarren	-1	F	-16
T8		M. McNealy	-3	F	-15
T8		C. Davis	-3	F	-15
T10		C. Hadley	-4	F	-14
T10		M. Gligic	-2	F	-14
T10		P. Flavin	-5	F	-14

 

Who?

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Middling players are going to win a bunch of LIV events because the best players have little to play for and don't care as much.  

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

31 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Middling players are going to win a bunch of LIV events because the best players have little to play for and don't care as much.  

unless they expand the fields, at some point the middling players will be pushed out? I was actually wondering how that would work... Lets say another dozen guys jump from the PGA ( of course the haters will say they are all either old/annoying/no one likes them anyway), Most of the 48 man fields will be household golf names.

quick search turned up this....

Quote

NORTH PLAINS, Ore. — The LIV Golf Invitational Series will include more events and a name change in 2023.

The series will transition to the LIV Golf League next year and the events will grow from eight this year to 14 in future years with 48 contracted players on 12 teams. The number of events will be capped at 14.

The Saudi-backed series has grown faster than expected with eight of the top 50 players, and 20 of the top 100, in the current World Golf Rankings joining LIV to date. Included are Jupiter residents Dustin Johnson and Brooks Koepka, both ranked in the top 20.

The fields for this year's eight events are fluid as more players defect from the PGA Tour. This week's field at Pumpkin Ridge Golf Course outside of Portland has nine players not in the inaugural event held outside of London, including Koepka, Bryson DeChambeau, Patrick Reed, Matthew Wolff, Abraham Ancer and Carlos Ortiz.

The plan for 2023 is to open the season in March with 48 contracted players. The four-man teams will be set before the season, with the players being selected and recruited by the 12 captains.

The contracts for each player vary with the longest being four years. Phil Mickelson is reported to have signed the largest contract, $200 million, followed by Johnson at $125 million.

The list of venues has not been finalized. What is known is the number of international sites will expand. This year, the series has stops in England, Bangkok and Saudi Arabia along with five U.S. sites: Portland; Bedminster, N.J.; Boston; Chicago; and Miami.

 

[Cruzer 1,992]

I'm not watching LIV so really, who wins them means nothing to me. If it's Joe Blow, it's Joe Blow. 

As far as the John Deere, it's always a ghost town devoid of stars. Look at the 2021 field, carbon copy of this year... Like I said, the big names rarely face off in events like this anyway - it wasn't a LIV thing. 

[Bert 1,091]

10 hours ago, Cruzer said:

I'm not watching LIV so really, who wins them means nothing to me. If it's Joe Blow, it's Joe Blow. 

As far as the John Deere, it's always a ghost town devoid of stars. Look at the 2021 field, carbon copy of this year... Like I said, the big names rarely face off in events like this anyway - it wasn't a LIV thing. 

I think you said it best, LIV is a glorified beer league.  They have a bunch of has beens, never weres and a couple of guys that don't care that much about golf making a money grab.  Good for them but don't focking compare yourself to the Ryder cup numb nuts. 

I have to believe DJ is giggling his ass off.  What???  You are going to give me $125 million to show up at a few pro-am type events and I am guaranteed it get more money???  Hey Paulina, bring the coke over you aren't gonna believe this sh!t.    

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

4 hours ago, Bert said:

I think you said it best, LIV is a glorified beer league.  They have a bunch of has beens, never weres and a couple of guys that don't care that much about golf making a money grab.  Good for them but don't focking compare yourself to the Ryder cup numb nuts. 

I have to believe DJ is giggling his ass off.  What???  You are going to give me $125 million to show up at a few pro-am type events and I am guaranteed it get more money???  Hey Paulina, bring the coke over you aren't gonna believe this sh!t.    

Agree to disagree.... Like I said a few posts up, every guy who goes to LIV will be auto labeled this way by those who despise it. I find it hard to believe that DJ and Koepka don't care that much about golf. Maybe they didn't care all that much about the run of the mill tour stop but we know Brooks cares about majors, DJ might too he just comes off as such a laid back guy. Talor Gooch was a rising name on the PGA... so was Abe Ancer. Cheater or not, you can't tell me Patrick Reed doesn't care about golf. He damn sure cared during the Ryder Cup and cared when besties Spieth and JT broke up his dynamic duo. Weirdo or not, I don't believe for a second Bryson doesn't care about golf. Louis was runner up in like 3 majors last year. 

Is it so much a money grab or are these guys taking the guaranteed contracts that contemporaries in other sports get? We will never know, because the PGA was the only show in town with no teams bidding for the services of the top stars so they didn't have to do this... but what if the PGA had gone to a contract set up? Offering contracts based on world ranking or something with caveats that they have to play X number of events and certain lesser events to drive interest. Maybe the contracts wouldn't have had to be even close to the LIV contracts to keep all these guys with the PGA. 

Or maybe they still would have been drawn in by no cuts (dont have to travel to an event to play 36 holes, not have quite your best stuff and miss the cut by 1), 54 holes (it adds up to more time the can spend with family, on business ventures, etc),  14 events capped going forward...

Yes, Gooch comparing the team aspect to a ryder or presidents cup was laughable but people say dumb things in front of the mic all the time. 

[edjr 5,563]

4 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

 

Yes, Gooch comparing the team aspect to a ryder or presidents cup was laughable but people say dumb things in front of the mic all the time. 

You should see me after a few cocktails.  weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Bert 1,091]

3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Agree to disagree.... Like I said a few posts up, every guy who goes to LIV will be auto labeled this way by those who despise it. I find it hard to believe that DJ and Koepka don't care that much about golf. Maybe they didn't care all that much about the run of the mill tour stop but we know Brooks cares about majors, DJ might too he just comes off as such a laid back guy. Talor Gooch was a rising name on the PGA... so was Abe Ancer. Cheater or not, you can't tell me Patrick Reed doesn't care about golf. He damn sure cared during the Ryder Cup and cared when besties Spieth and JT broke up his dynamic duo. Weirdo or not, I don't believe for a second Bryson doesn't care about golf. Louis was runner up in like 3 majors last year. 

Is it so much a money grab or are these guys taking the guaranteed contracts that contemporaries in other sports get? We will never know, because the PGA was the only show in town with no teams bidding for the services of the top stars so they didn't have to do this... but what if the PGA had gone to a contract set up? Offering contracts based on world ranking or something with caveats that they have to play X number of events and certain lesser events to drive interest. Maybe the contracts wouldn't have had to be even close to the LIV contracts to keep all these guys with the PGA. 

Or maybe they still would have been drawn in by no cuts (dont have to travel to an event to play 36 holes, not have quite your best stuff and miss the cut by 1), 54 holes (it adds up to more time the can spend with family, on business ventures, etc),  14 events capped going forward...

Yes, Gooch comparing the team aspect to a ryder or presidents cup was laughable but people say dumb things in front of the mic all the time. 

Agree to disagree.  I'm not auto labeling anyone I'm just trying to look at the facts of the situation.  The PGA certainly screwed up handling this situation but let's not pretend that Reed, Bryson, Gooch are in the same universe much less ball park as DJ and Koepka.  

I believe DJ is a freak talent but is not obsessed with golf like Tiger.  Sure he cares about golf but he likes the money and the life style more.  LIV gives him that and he can still play in majors. 

Koepka has to be worried about all the injuries.  It makes perfect sense to take the guaranteed money and still play the majors.

Louis is past his prime and very unlike to win another major or many tournaments.  At this point in his career it makes perfect sense to take all the guaranteed money.  

Not a big deal but it is an interesting discussion.  

[Bert 1,091]

14 minutes ago, edjr said:

You should see me after a few cocktails.  weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

For anyone who hasn't, check out the my cousin from Boston golf commercial for Sam Adams.

[edjr 5,563]

29 minutes ago, Bert said:

For anyone who hasn't, check out the my cousin from Boston golf commercial for Sam Adams.

 

[KSB2424 3,083]

I'f rather watch this than LIV

 

[KSB2424 3,083]

5 hours ago, Bert said:

For anyone who hasn't, check out the my cousin from Boston golf commercial for Sam Adams.

I don't know many people from Boston, whenver I see that commercial I think of Ed Jr.  

[KSB2424 3,083]

On 7/2/2022 at 6:03 PM, Reality said:

No downside.

So while I agree for the most part that a big time money grab is hard to pass up (almost impossible), I dissagree with the above.  There is a downside....you are "branded" as a sell out. It does and will leave a mark on your legacy...whatever that means and whatever you care about terms like that. 

Life is a constant stream of cost versus benefit analysis decisons, this is just one more.  But don't be fooled, there is a cost.  Maybe the benefit is more, but there is always a cost. 

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

40 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

I don't know many people from Boston, whenver I see that commercial I think of Ed Jr.  

Haha I do too 

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

39 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

So while I agree for the most part that a big time money grab is hard to pass up (almost impossible), I dissagree with the above.  There is a downside....you are "branded" as a sell out. It does and will leave a mark on your legacy...whatever that means and whatever you care about terms like that. 

Life is a constant stream of cost versus benefit analysis decisons, this is just one more.  But don't be fooled, there is a cost.  Maybe the benefit is more, but there is always a cost. 

Are you saying this just still based 100% on the human rights stuff while ignoring the PGA involvement with China etc?  (And yes, I am opposed to SA)
 

only curious because I think legacy seems to be getting tossed around by a lot of people the same way “history” and “playing for history” gets tossed around. You know because when you stick with the PGA, you’re playing for history. Well, that’s easy to say when they have been the only golf tour allowed to accumulate a history. 
 

If LIV is around even 5 years from now, with even more big names and rising talent, will they still be “branded” by anyone other than the chamblees, Monahans and McIlroys? 

[KSB2424 3,083]

4 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

If LIV is around even 5 years from now, 

This is what makes me laugh the most.  Come on man, just see it for what it is. Stop with the sales job. 

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

6 hours ago, Bert said:

Agree to disagree.  I'm not auto labeling anyone I'm just trying to look at the facts of the situation.  The PGA certainly screwed up handling this situation but let's not pretend that Reed, Bryson, Gooch are in the same universe much less ball park as DJ and Koepka.  

I believe DJ is a freak talent but is not obsessed with golf like Tiger.  Sure he cares about golf but he likes the money and the life style more.  LIV gives him that and he can still play in majors. 

Koepka has to be worried about all the injuries.  It makes perfect sense to take the guaranteed money and still play the majors.

Louis is past his prime and very unlike to win another major or many tournaments.  At this point in his career it makes perfect sense to take all the guaranteed money.  

Not a big deal but it is an interesting discussion.  

I enjoy discussing it. I meant to say in my last post that calling it a “beer league” is also off base as it’s already more entertaining with more players I want to see, and larger crowds than most DP World tour events.
 

few, if any, are obsessed with golf like Tiger was. Not a fair comparison. 
 

Gooch was an up and comer. He’s not on the level of DJ and Brooks. Reed and Bryson? Both are major champions with tons of game… at least until “long drive Bryson” became a thing. 

Bottom line, from a golf only standpoint, PGA blocked Norman’s past attempt at a competing league but couldn’t do it this time. They are obviously pissed, you can tell by all of their reactions and responses. LIV is 2 events in to its infancy and already has some of the most talented (DJ, Brooks, Louis, Bryson), recognizable personalities, and young promising players like Gooch, Ancer and even Wolff if he gets his head on straight. I’m willing to bet it’s a far more impressive roster than anyone would have imagined 2 months ago 

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

8 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

This is what makes me laugh the most.  Come on man, just see it for what it is. Stop with the sales job. 

You can Stop with the sales job schtick. No one is trying to “sell” you on LIV golf. It’s already here

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

11 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

just see it for what it is

I’m assuming “what it is” for you is a money grab by older, washed up players, or guys you don’t like who have no morals and it won’t last beyond this year because …. “PGA! PGA! PGA!” The squeaky clean monopoly . 
 

If that winds up being the case, and it Fizzles out quickly, I won’t eat any crow because I prefer the PGA. I’ve stated that many times. It’s already forcing their hand, Which I am glad about. 

[Bert 1,091]

1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

I enjoy discussing it. I meant to say in my last post that calling it a “beer league” is also off base as it’s already more entertaining with more players I want to see, and larger crowds than most DP World tour events.
 

few, if any, are obsessed with golf like Tiger was. Not a fair comparison. 
 

Gooch was an up and comer. He’s not on the level of DJ and Brooks. Reed and Bryson? Both are major champions with tons of game… at least until “long drive Bryson” became a thing. 

Bottom line, from a golf only standpoint, PGA blocked Norman’s past attempt at a competing league but couldn’t do it this time. They are obviously pissed, you can tell by all of their reactions and responses. LIV is 2 events in to its infancy and already has some of the most talented (DJ, Brooks, Louis, Bryson), recognizable personalities, and young promising players like Gooch, Ancer and even Wolff if he gets his head on straight. I’m willing to bet it’s a far more impressive roster than anyone would have imagined 2 months ago 

Ok fair enough about beer league.  

Fine about DJ and Tiger.  DJ has less obsession with golf than Tiger but also has less than Mickelson and is equally talented as both.  

I'll take the top 4 PGA guys over your group of "some of the most talented".  That is assuming 2 are even healthy enough to play.  You extend the players to the top 10 and the LIV is a joke compared to the current PGA.  These are facts.

The PGA focked up handling the situation but Norman is a POS.  Very similar to Phil in how different he presents himself to the public and how he really is as a person.  

[KSB2424 3,083]

6 minutes ago, Bert said:

The PGA focked up handling the situation but Norman is a POS.  Very similar to Phil in how different how he presents himself to the public and how he really is as a person.  

Bingo 

 

[listen2me 23 1,541]

14 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

Or maybe they still would have been drawn in by no cuts (dont have to travel to an event to play 36 holes, not have quite your best stuff and miss the cut by 1)

What is thr appeal of a no cut event? You think they get mad when they travel and don't make the cut?  An extra 18 holes out of contention is the deal maker?  I don't get this stance.  If they are clearly not playing well I always thought thr big names would rather miss thr cut and go home.    Oh yea they get paid either way this way.  So yeah...Money. 

[edjr 5,563]

10 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I'f rather watch this than LIV

 

Someone tell Santa get back to the north pole. 

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

9 hours ago, Bert said:

I'll take the top 4 PGA guys over your group of "some of the most talented".  That is assuming 2 are even healthy enough to play.  You extend the players to the top 10 and the LIV is a joke compared to the current PGA.  These are facts.

Yeah, sure. I agree 100%.  I wasn't trying to claim that LIVs current star power is greater than the PGA. I guess I was making the point that a lot of people are blasting the LIV roster in comparison to the PGA, but its a brand new league. Who would expect it to have the better top 4 or top 10? ... but I think we would all have to admit it has a far better lineup, 2 events into it's existence, than anyone thought it would 

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

3 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

What is thr appeal of a no cut event? You think they get mad when they travel and don't make the cut?  An extra 18 holes out of contention is the deal maker?  I don't get this stance.  If they are clearly not playing well I always thought thr big names would rather miss thr cut and go home.    Oh yea they get paid either way this way.  So yeah...Money. 

so in my post that you quoted, I specifically said "miss the cut by 1" because we so often see golfers make the cut on the number and then shoot a 64 or whatever on moving day and find themselves in contention. 

So of course I am just guessing, but I would think traveling to an event and playing so-so golf but maybe feeling like you're turning a corner only to miss the weekend can be annoying. Even more so if it's a lesser event or one you are playing only because of sponsor obligations. 

Then again, maybe its no issue for them considering LIV only has 3 rounds anyway, and i'm sure the bigger draw to no cuts is the guaranteed prize money.

I was simply spit balling. no biggie.