Sean Mooney 1,983 Posted November 14, 2022 Just now, jerryskids said: Is that code for "lop off the genitals of minors"? I mean, your list of Republican things are all extreme, certainly more so than "health care for everyone." Give me the extreme positions that democrats run on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted November 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, 5-Points said: What are LGBTQRS rights? The people behind that movement have the same rights you and I have. They want special consideration and nobody has a "right" to that. Mark me down as one who feels we should all vote, in person, with ID, on election day. Deciding who we trust to govern the country shouldn't be based on convenience IMO. Mark me down with being fine with that if it's also backed by a federal holiday. To me it's a bit much to expect people to juggle jobs, kids, and then go rot in lines for sometimes hours. The process of voting shouldn't feel like a punishment - especially with these terrible choices to vote for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raven Fan 362 Posted November 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Oh yes I/we have. Go ahead and put female genital mutilation in the search. Then Stfu. Racist. NOT A SINGLE MENTION in my few days here. Why are you people so focused on something that rarely happens but you're ignoring what's been an issue for hundreds of years? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted November 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said: So you refuse to answer a simple question. Got it. Typical. I mean it isn't the gotcha you think it is. I never said in my first post that their rights were being stripped- just that there is a perceived threat there. Which also stems from the overturning of RvW. I think there is a worry that gay marriage is next in the crosshairs. (which I think would go over even worse for the GOP than we saw this Tues if they go this way). That, combined with the dialogue around trans issues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,423 Posted November 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Raven Fan said: NOT A SINGLE MENTION in my few days here. Why are you people so focused on something that rarely happens but you're ignoring what's been an issue for hundreds of years? You think we haven’t t been down this road? Go look it up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Mooney 1,983 Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, BuckSwope said: Which also stems from the overturning of RvW. I think there is a worry that gay marriage is next in the crosshairs. (which I think would go over even worse for the GOP than we saw this Tues if they go this way). That, combined with the dialogue around trans issues. Yes- and I've tried to tell these people on the right for a long time....the abortion, the LGBTQ stuff, the books...people in the middle don't care about that stuff. They just don't. It's red meat to the base, but you've already got that vote locked up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Mooney 1,983 Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said: You think we haven’t t been down this road? Go look it up No answering my question yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,527 Posted November 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said: I shared a link. They would argue some politicians want to take their rights away. If you want to do that fine- but then we need a national policy across the board. Otherwise- state's rights. From your link: These measures target transgender and nonbinary people for discrimination, such as by barring or criminalizing healthcare for trans youth, barring access to the use of appropriate facilities like restrooms, restricting trans students’ ability to fully participate in school and sports, allowing religiously-motivated discrimination against trans people, or making it more difficult for them to get identification documents with their name and gender. 1. Youth indicates minor and minor healthcare should run through their parents. Full stop. 2. Falsifying your identity is a crime. Nobody has a right to use the restroom of their choice. Men who can't compete against other men don't have a right to compete against women. It's unfair to the women and shouldn't be allowed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,423 Posted November 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said: No answering my question yet? I said the latter. The second option. What is the matter with you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Mooney 1,983 Posted November 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, 5-Points said: From your link: These measures target transgender and nonbinary people for discrimination, such as by barring or criminalizing healthcare for trans youth, barring access to the use of appropriate facilities like restrooms, restricting trans students’ ability to fully participate in school and sports, allowing religiously-motivated discrimination against trans people, or making it more difficult for them to get identification documents with their name and gender. 1. Youth indicates minor and minor healthcare should run through their parents. Full stop. 2. Falsifying your identity is a crime. Nobody has a right to use the restroom of their choice. Men who can't compete against other men don't have a right to compete against women. It's unfair to the women and shouldn't be allowed. You guys just don't get it...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Mooney 1,983 Posted November 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: I said the latter. The second option. What is the matter with you? It was a little unclear what you were saying. So you at least do understand how the far right candidates come off crazier....good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,527 Posted November 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: Mark me down with being fine with that if it's also backed by a federal holiday. To me it's a bit much to expect people to juggle jobs, kids, and then go rot in lines for sometimes hours. The process of voting shouldn't feel like a punishment - especially with these terrible choices to vote for. We should do whatever is necessary to facilitate in person voting, including a national holiday. It shouldn't be a burden but we also shouldn't cater to the layabout who can't be bothered to put down the Playstation controller and get up off the couch for a half hour to go cast a ballot. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,423 Posted November 14, 2022 Just now, Sean Mooney said: It was a little unclear what you were saying. So you at least do understand how the far right candidates come off crazier....good. Wait, the Republican choice was the first one? Then I want that. The former. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,792 Posted November 14, 2022 1 hour ago, TimHauck said: Don’t yell at me for asking more questions, but is there data on young married women (particularly between say 25-29)? Do they vote much more Republican than unmarried women of the same age? Sorry, I don't have that resolution of data. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, 5-Points said: We should do whatever is necessary to facilitate in person voting, including a national holiday. It shouldn't be a burden but we also shouldn't cater to the layabout who can't be bothered to put down the Playstation controller and get up off the couch for a half hour to go cast a ballot. I don't think there is much we can do about those people. I talked about my example - off work, Tues is a sports night, I have the kids after work, the polling place is a 30min round trip, etc.. If there were any sort of lines at all of my place, I wouldn't be able to go in person. The fact that it's a burdon for some and that we can barely brake 50% of the voting public participating in this process are sad facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,527 Posted November 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said: You guys just don't get it...... What don't I get? They want special consideration. Nobody is entitled to that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireballer 2,642 Posted November 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said: Give me the extreme positions that democrats run on. I certainly agree with you on this. Dems are much better at marketing and keeping their crazies in check around elections. The defund the po po, for example, got quelled enough not to cause to much trouble by people running on it as a major issue. And they dont let Beto's extreme 2A bullcrap smear the overall platform of the party. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,527 Posted November 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: I don't think there is much we can do about those people. I talked about my example - off work, Tues is a sports night, I have the kids after work, the polling place is a 30min round trip, etc.. If there were any sort of lines at all of my place, I wouldn't be able to go in person. The fact that it's a burdon for some and that we can barely brake 50% of the voting public participating in this process are sad facts. Check your state laws. CA requires employers to allow 2 hours off to vote on election day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,423 Posted November 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, 5-Points said: What don't I get? They want special consideration. Nobody is entitled to that. He went from rights being denied or taken away, when that was pointed out as can’t/ not happening it went to you’re just a dumb dumb that can’t possibly understand. You’re entitled to your rights. That’s it. The rest is an ask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted November 14, 2022 34 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: The mutilating of children, which is the subject, is a fairly new phenomenon. Brought to you by leftists and the current president. My bad, misread your post. Though, no, neither “leftists” as a whole, nor Biden, have done that. There’s a whole lot of gray area between hating transgenders and saying kids should have their penises chopped off Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted November 14, 2022 13 minutes ago, 5-Points said: From your link: These measures target transgender and nonbinary people for discrimination, such as by barring or criminalizing healthcare for trans youth, barring access to the use of appropriate facilities like restrooms, restricting trans students’ ability to fully participate in school and sports, allowing religiously-motivated discrimination against trans people, or making it more difficult for them to get identification documents with their name and gender. 1. Youth indicates minor and minor healthcare should run through their parents. Full stop. 2. Falsifying your identity is a crime. Nobody has a right to use the restroom of their choice. Men who can't compete against other men don't have a right to compete against women. It's unfair to the women and shouldn't be allowed. For #1, is that the case for everything in your mind? One thing that I return to, and I don't know what the %s are offhand, is that many times the abuse and intolerance comes from the family in the LGBTQ community, and especially trans youth. I truly don't know what the answer is there, but it does give me pause on some of it. In light of covid and shutdowns, I think it should have become sad reality how many kids depend on school services for food, counseling, and other things and how not great many home situations are. Should they be able to seek medical treatment without the parents? I think that's too far. But healthcare also includes counseling and other things. Should they be allowed to seek counseling or other services that could give them support without notifying parents? That's where I am not as sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted November 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, 5-Points said: Check your state laws. CA requires employers to allow 2 hours off to vote on election day. We have 3 successive hours, but the employers can choose if they pay for it, which of course many don't around here. It's something, but if people are hurting financially, that might not be enough of a push for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,527 Posted November 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: He went from rights being denied or taken away, when that was pointed out as can’t/ not happening it went to you’re just a dumb dumb that can’t possibly understand. You’re entitled to your rights. That’s it. The rest is an ask. Exactly. Rights are rights, across the board. Nobody is entitled to special consideration based on a chosen lifestyle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raven Fan 362 Posted November 14, 2022 What do we think about the country's complete repudiation of the Republicans embrace of Trump, election denial, and ridiculous cultural wars? I for one love it very much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,527 Posted November 14, 2022 18 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: For #1, is that the case for everything in your mind? One thing that I return to, and I don't know what the %s are offhand, is that many times the abuse and intolerance comes from the family in the LGBTQ community, and especially trans youth. I truly don't know what the answer is there, but it does give me pause on some of it. In light of covid and shutdowns, I think it should have become sad reality how many kids depend on school services for food, counseling, and other things and how not great many home situations are. Should they be able to seek medical treatment without the parents? I think that's too far. But healthcare also includes counseling and other things. Should they be allowed to seek counseling or other services that could give them support without notifying parents? That's where I am not as sure. Yes, I think parents should always be involved in the medical treatment of their children as long as they are legally responsible for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,423 Posted November 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, Raven Fan said: What do we think about the country's complete repudiation of the Republicans embrace of Trump, election denial, and ridiculous cultural wars? I for one love it very much. I think you’re a racist. How about that? I have receipts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dogcows 1,030 Posted November 14, 2022 44 minutes ago, jerryskids said: Sorry, I don't have that resolution of data. But you do know that they’re ugly? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,792 Posted November 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, dogcows said: But you do know that they’re ugly? I said probably. Unfortunately those smilies can't hide your ignorance of the English language. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonmx 2,429 Posted November 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Raven Fan said: lololololol tens of thousands of kids. Please step back to reality my friend. Tens of thousands of any kind of surgical intervention, not to even discuss gender reassignment in children, would be a huge deal. Focus on the religious nutjobs my friend. They're doing much much more harm than a few messed up kids and parents. There are over 300 gender clinics across the US whose major source of income is gender affirming care. Are you stupid enough to think they are only doing a one or two a month? Even that would be over 7,000 per year, with a projected annual growth rate of 15 to 20 percent. This is a multi-billion industry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted November 14, 2022 MAGAtards keep banging that "mutilating kids" bell, but could someone post a link to kids actually getting mutilated? Everything I've read is that there are some very rare examples of sexual-reassignment surgery between ages 16 and 18. This just sounds like DeShittis-fueled MAGAtard catastrophizing, like they do about myriad other alt-right media squawking and fear-mongering points. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,792 Posted November 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said: MAGAtards keep banging that "mutilating kids" bell, but could someone post a link to kids actually getting mutilated? Everything I've read is that there are some very rare examples of sexual-reassignment surgery between ages 16 and 18. This just sounds like DeShittis-fueled MAGAtard catastrophizing, like they do about myriad other alt-right media squawking and fear-mongering points. I see your getting a head start on the inevitable MSM message that "DeSantis is like Trump, but WORSE$#@!". Quite right-leaning of you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Mooney 1,983 Posted November 14, 2022 55 minutes ago, Fireballer said: I certainly agree with you on this. Dems are much better at marketing and keeping their crazies in check around elections. The defund the po po, for example, got quelled enough not to cause to much trouble by people running on it as a major issue. And they dont let Beto's extreme 2A bullcrap smear the overall platform of the party. I appreciate that you at least (unlike some others) understand what I'm saying...crazies on the left exist but they hide them far better. 49 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: He went from rights being denied or taken away, when that was pointed out as can’t/ not happening it went to you’re just a dumb dumb that can’t possibly understand. You’re entitled to your rights. That’s it. The rest is an ask. Not at all what I said...you guys just don't understand why you lost this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted November 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said: MAGAtards keep banging that "mutilating kids" bell, but could someone post a link to kids actually getting mutilated? Everything I've read is that there are some very rare examples of sexual-reassignment surgery between ages 16 and 18. This just sounds like DeShittis-fueled MAGAtard catastrophizing, like they do about myriad other alt-right media squawking and fear-mongering points. I found THIS Looking down I see 282 top surgeries in 2021. In the report it said it didn't account for out of pocket procedures, so keep that in mind. Looks like this is out of about 42K patients with gender dysphoria diagnoses (which damn near doubled from 2020). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raven Fan 362 Posted November 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: I found THIS Looking down I see 282 top surgeries in 2021. In the report it said it didn't account for out of pocket procedures, so keep that in mind. Looks like this is out of about 42K patients with gender dysphoria diagnoses (which damn near doubled from 2020). Wait Jon says there tens of thousands of surgeries and it's a billion dollar industry...LMFAO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,792 Posted November 14, 2022 17 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: I found THIS Looking down I see 282 top surgeries in 2021. In the report it said it didn't account for out of pocket procedures, so keep that in mind. Looks like this is out of about 42K patients with gender dysphoria diagnoses (which damn near doubled from 2020). Thanks. Does most insurance cover elective top surgeries for minors? I would expect the majority of those would be out of pocket, but I'm open to being wrong. Regardless, I think puberty blockers and hormones are quite more common; we saw 1400 and 4K+ respectively in 2021. Not good. It saddens me that people look at the astronomical rise in teens self-identifying as trans and presume it is all legitimate, vs. in large part due to the obvious social contagion/rapid onset gender dysphoria. Quote Thousands of children in the United States now openly identify as a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth, their numbers surging amid growing recognition of transgender identity and rights even as they face persistent prejudice and discrimination. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted November 14, 2022 30 minutes ago, jerryskids said: I see your getting a head start on the inevitable MSM message that "DeSantis is like Trump, but WORSE$#@!". Quite right-leaning of you. Eeyore in the hizzah! Hawwwwww heeeee hawwwwww heeeee hawwwwww. I don't use MSM media outlets such as Fox to analyze DeShittis. I look at his legislative actions and platforms, which parallel with the MAGAtard agenda. You know, actual things he has proposed, approved and/or said in his speeches and interviews. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted November 14, 2022 29 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: I found THIS Looking down I see 282 top surgeries in 2021. In the report it said it didn't account for out of pocket procedures, so keep that in mind. Looks like this is out of about 42K patients with gender dysphoria diagnoses (which damn near doubled from 2020). My position is that there shouldn't be any medicinal and/or surgical intervention until adulthood, meaning 18 years old. I know someone who has a daughter who is 9 or 10 years old and thinks she is a boy, and the parents are all happy, supportive and getting treatment for her. I think that's ridiculous. A kid can't know this crap at least until there is some grass on the field. The parents are indulging in this because they're pretentious Portland crunchies who want this because it's trendy, and I despise them for it. Likewise, it's despicable for MAGAtards such as DeShittis and Greg Abbott to expect an 11-year-old girl who got raped and knocked up by her dad to carry a baby to term, never mind if the baby couldn't live outside the womb and the mom likely will die during or before childbirth. Talk about child mutilation! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted November 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, jerryskids said: Thanks. Does most insurance cover elective top surgeries for minors? I would expect the majority of those would be out of pocket, but I'm open to being wrong. Regardless, I think puberty blockers and hormones are quite more common; we saw 1400 and 4K+ respectively in 2021. Not good. It saddens me that people look at the astronomical rise in teens self-identifying at trans and presume it is all legitimate, vs. in large part due to the obvious social contagion/rapid onset gender dysphoria. That I don't know. When I just looked, I didn't see anything that stood out as far as a %. I think one read that the majority are out of pocket, but that is slowly changing as more and more start to cover these procedures. I also noted no bottom surgeries were listed in the article, so that is also an element that needs to be thought about. The little I've read pointed to some of these things in bold being reversible. I'm not an expert or anything. But yes, anybody that doesn't at least discuss and acknowledge the spike in cases and try to think about why isn't being honest. I think it's a mix of what you suggested + more acceptance + more knowledge about the diagnoses. What the ratio of that mix is, I don't know, but I think that jump from 25K GD diagnoses to 42K in a year needs to be at least talked about. Is it that crazy to suggest that at least some of that was kids sitting at home during covid and either have more time to get introduced to the idea? Maybe it was easier to come out virtually during that time? Less time given for a proper diagnoses, since the doctor visits could largely have virtual too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted November 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said: My position is that there shouldn't be any medicinal and/or surgical intervention until adulthood, meaning 18 years old. I know someone who has a daughter who is 9 or 10 years old and thinks she is a boy, and the parents are all happy, supportive and getting treatment for her. I think that's ridiculous. A kid can't know this crap at least until there is some grass on the field. The parents are indulging in this because they're pretentious Portland crunchies who want this because it's trendy, and I despise them for it. Likewise, it's despicable for MAGAtards such as DeShittis and Greg Abbott to expect an 11-year-old girl who got raped and knocked up by her dad to carry a baby to term, never mind if the baby couldn't live outside the womb and the mom likely will die during or before childbirth. Talk about child mutilation! I just linked it because I thought the discussion was about kids getting mutilated, which translated for jon is top and bottom surgeries. You seem to be against that too, and I was just curious what kind of numbers we were actually talking about here. Tens of thousands might be a bit off, but I was surprised it was that many, especially if we still don't know the numbers for out of pocket procedures or bottom surgeries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, BuckSwope said: I just linked it because I thought the discussion was about kids getting mutilated, which translated for jon is top and bottom surgeries. You seem to be against that too, and I was just curious what kind of numbers we were actually talking about here. "Kids are being mutilated" is just one of those far-right fear-mongering phrases they repeat until they actually think millions of kids are having their genitals hacked to pieces by Art the Clown from Terrifier. They do the same thing with voter fraud. Sex-change operations for juveniles 16 to 18 is almost non-existent, and there wasn't even close to being enough 2020 election shenanigans to change the outcome, but their go-to fallback position is "I can't believe Biden got 81 million votes," despite record voter registration and turnout in perhaps the most hotly contested presidential election in U.S. history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites