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HellToupee

Illegal Aliens & the Schocheting of America

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1 hour ago, lod001 said:

☝️ As dumb as mayorkis, who the tard quotes. 😆 Record #s have entered illegally since your butt buddy biden started destroying the border. FACT! Even your tard D mayors in D cities are saying its a disaster. 

Pimpadouche loves that sweet and tasty propaganda he gets at the DNC Glory Hole. 

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We live in a country where our national museum , the Smithsonian , claims hard work and family are racist.  And the left thinks saying an opposition to an open border is the racist take. 

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11 hours ago, 5-Points said:

They can apply for temporary seasonal work permits.

I never said it would happen. I'm saying it SHOULD happen. 

So are we in agreement that it never will for reasons I described?  

I prefer to operate in reality, so I have no idea why people think the borders will be "closed" for long periods of time or believe the right as they pretend to want to do so.  Again, if we agree that this would never happen, and there is too much $ to be made off these people.  

Wouldn't seasonal work permits be just as chaotic and a mess as our current catch and release program?  The ones who don't show up for their asylum hearings are probably the same ones who don't show up for the bus back home at the end of the season.   

IMO it wouldn't make one bit of difference -  instead of a broken asylum process we just give those people temporary work permits.  There are few who are here illegally (ie the got aways, ones who run from the border agents, etc.. ), and last I checked most of the illegals in our country are from expired visas as it is.  

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11 hours ago, lod001 said:

☝️ As dumb as mayorkis, who the tard quotes. 😆 Record #s have entered illegally since your butt buddy biden started destroying the border. FACT! Even your tard D mayors in D cities are saying its a disaster. 

It's just funny when posters like you post for years about how the borders are "wide open" with nobody stopping the hoards, THEN something happens that is actually going to make is worse.   What is the border now if it was wide open with no rules before?  That's all the point was - it's hard to walk back after years of hyperbole.  

 

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1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

So are we in agreement that it never will for reasons I described?  

I prefer to operate in reality, so I have no idea why people think the borders will be "closed" for long periods of time or believe the right as they pretend to want to do so.  Again, if we agree that this would never happen, and there is too much $ to be made off these people.  

Wouldn't seasonal work permits be just as chaotic and a mess as our current catch and release program?  The ones who don't show up for their asylum hearings are probably the same ones who don't show up for the bus back home at the end of the season.   

IMO it wouldn't make one bit of difference -  instead of a broken asylum process we just give those people temporary work permits.  There are few who are here illegally (ie the got aways, ones who run from the border agents, etc.. ), and last I checked most of the illegals in our country are from expired visas as it is.  

I was never under any illusions that it would happen. I was merely offering up MY solution to the problem. 

Overstay your temp work permit, you will be deported and not allowed back. I think those who are here for the jobs, like the politicians love to claim, would follow the rules so they can come back and work. Those who don't follow the rules are not welcome and will be imprisoned if they are found and the employer will be fined. Put the onus on the employer to keep track of his/her employees. 

 

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5 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

I was never under any illusions that it would happen. I was merely offering up MY solution to the problem. 

Overstay your temp work permit, you will be deported and not allowed back. I think those who are here for the jobs, like the politicians love to claim, would follow the rules so they can come back and work. Those who don't follow the rules are not welcome and will be imprisoned if they are found and the employer will be fined. Put the onus on the employer to keep track of his/her employees. 

 

Great, we agree.  IF there was a politician I could vote for with that stance, I would.  If I could vote for that policy, I would.   

Again, not reality though, and there are reasons neither party would go for such a thing and risk their profits.  

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2 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

It's just funny when posters like you post for years about how the borders are "wide open" with nobody stopping the hoards, THEN something happens that is actually going to make is worse.   What is the border now if it was wide open with no rules before?  That's all the point was - it's hard to walk back after years of hyperbole.  

 

I've read news articles this morning saying how the numbers at the border are down now, and articles saying that there is no border so people are just walking in.

It's getting real hard to get the truth.

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The cartels will decide how many illegals cross the border.  

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12 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

We live in a country where our national museum , the Smithsonian , claims hard work and family are racist.  And the left thinks saying an opposition to an open border is the racist take. 

It is bizarre.  All the Dems I know want a strong border.  Border security should have zero to do with Left or Right ideology. 

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5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I've read news articles this morning saying how the numbers at the border are down now, and articles saying that there is no border so people are just walking in.

It's getting real hard to get the truth.

It is.  Thats why I usually gravitate to news outside our country, stats, and long form info like podcasts and books.  

I'd expect CNN and the like to downplay any increase in numbers, and Fox and Co. to keep drumming the drum that it's wide open and no rules like the last 4 years.  

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2 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

It is.  Thats why I usually gravitate to news outside our country, stats, and long form info like podcasts and books.  

I'd expect CNN and the like to downplay any increase in numbers, and Fox and Co. to keep drumming the drum that it's wide open and no rules like the last 4 years.  

I've found local reports to have truth as well.  If the local reporting is saying they're either overrun or doing fine, I'll take that into consideration.  I saw numbers from Biden that showed to be lower, but I don't fully trust Biden either.

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9 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I've found local reports to have truth as well.  If the local reporting is saying they're either overrun or doing fine, I'll take that into consideration.  I saw numbers from Biden that showed to be lower, but I don't fully trust Biden either.

Good point on local reports too.  

Week 1 for numbers isn't the greatest indicator, either.   There is still a bit of unknown in the switch.  

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15 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

It is bizarre.  All the Dems I know want a strong border.  Border security should have zero to do with Left or Right ideology. 

It doesn't.  Imo what you are seeing is 2 things:

1.  Politicians and lobbyists going against what the population wants.  See: border, abortion, trans in sports, drugs, Healthcare, etc.  

2.  The people you are talking to have a different definition of "strong border" than you might.  

 

I see the border as having less to do with security, and more to do with the asylum process and rules.  That's what needs to be fixed first, or the rest will be ineffective. 

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/bidens-border-policy-draws-flak-from-right-and-left-after-title-42-expires-88b4a56f

Quote

 

WASHINGTON—President Biden’s new border strategy so far appears to have deterred the record migrant influx many feared following the expiration of Title 42, but the revised system is already proving vulnerable to lawsuits and political attacks from the right and left.

Mr. Biden’s new course at the border relies on stiff consequences for illegal border crossings involving requests for asylum, while allowing tens of thousands of asylum seekers to enter the country each month by legal means. 

Arrests of migrants crossing from Mexico illegally have dropped from the levels seen in the days leading up to Title 42’s expiration, officials have said. Releases of migrants out of Border Patrol detention appeared to be slowing.

In the past couple of days, the U.S. Border Patrol has seen a 50% drop in arrests, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said on CNN on Sunday. That decline brings daily crossings roughly in line with the lull experienced in January, when arrests across the U.S.-Mexico border fell to between 4,000 and 5,000 a day.

 

Well if he's pissing off both the left and the right, then he's probably doing the right thing.

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One of the things I liked about Trump's policy was he advertised it, Hard.  Made it clear if you come here, and think you can bring your kid and get a free pass, you risk being separated from that kid.  I have to believe some families in Guatemala heard this rhetoric and decided against making the trip.  Not wanting to risk it.  We need that back.  We need to scare people to not want to just come here and put so much at risk.  

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

One of the things I liked about Trump's policy was he advertised it, Hard.  Made it clear if you come here, and think you can bring your kid and get a free pass, you risk being separated from that kid.  I have to believe some families in Guatemala heard this rhetoric and decided against making the trip.  Not wanting to risk it.  We need that back.  We need to scare people to not want to just come here and put so much at risk.  

Disgusting post and sentiment. Just awful. 

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4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Disgusting post and sentiment. Just awful. 

No it isn't.   It sends the message and then they might decide to stay home.  Its a far better message than saying "come on, cross the border, we won't care"  

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1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

I've read news articles this morning saying how the numbers at the border are down now, and articles saying that there is no border so people are just walking in.

It's getting real hard to get the truth.

Best sources:  Arizona & Texas.  They are the ones affected, they are the ones saying the border is virtually open.

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It’s also a complete falsehood that Trump’s policies were in any way effective at limiting illegal immigration. When Obama left office illegal immigration was at a 50 year low. It ramped up under Trump, and even more so under Biden but it’s part of the same trend line. 

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

No it isn't.   It sends the message and then they might decide to stay home.  Its a far better message than saying "come on, cross the border, we won't care"  

Separating parents from their children is un-American. It wasn’t an effective policy (see my last post) but even if it was we should never do it because that’s not who we should be as a country. 

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

No it isn't.   It sends the message and then they might decide to stay home.  Its a far better message than saying "come on, cross the border, we won't care"  

Who is saying "come on, cross the border, we won't care"?

I still think that's a better message than "Come to the border and we're gonna steal your kids and send you home"

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1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

Who is saying "come on, cross the border, we won't care"?

I still think that's a better message than "Come to the border and we're gonna steal your kids and send you home"

It's called a deterrent.  And it works.

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3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Separating parents from their children is un-American. It wasn’t an effective policy (see my last post) but even if it was we should never do it because that’s not who we should be as a country. 

If they are crossing the border without any proof that the child is theirs, you're okay with human trafficking? Because that's what's happening. 

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4 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

If they are crossing the border without any proof that the child is theirs, you're okay with human trafficking? Because that's what's happening. 

They don’t care. Victims are an inconvenience to people like Tim. Gets in the way of their feelings. So they ignore it.  It’s not happening.  

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8 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

If they are crossing the border without any proof that the child is theirs, you're okay with human trafficking? Because that's what's happening. 

If there’s evidence of trafficking then I‘m good with separation. But I’m betting that overall the vast majority of families that come are real. Certainly when Trump defended his policy last week he didn’t mention trafficking as the reason- he acknowledged that separating families was horrible but argued that “it worked”. (It doesn’t.) That’s the same argument that @supermike80 is making. It’s immoral. 

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Just now, The Real timschochet said:

If there’s evidence of trafficking then I‘m good with separation. But I’m betting that overall the vast majority of families that come are real. Certainly when Trump defended his policy last week he didn’t mention trafficking as the reason- he acknowledged that separating families was horrible but argued that “it worked”. (It doesn’t.) That’s the same argument that @supermike80 is making. It’s immoral. 

Easy fix.  Dont try to come here illegally.  BOOM!!! Problem solved!

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15 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

It's called a deterrent.  And it works.

It doesn’t. Here’s a good analysis: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/05/31/does-separating-families-at-the-border-discourage-immigration-heres-what-the-research-says/

But again, I have to add that even if I was completely wrong about this and it was completely effective it would still be an immoral, un-American act which we should never do. 

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Just now, The Real timschochet said:

It doesn’t. Here’s a good analysis: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/05/31/does-separating-families-at-the-border-discourage-immigration-heres-what-the-research-says/

But again, I have to add that even if I was completely wrong about this and it was completely effective it would still be an immoral, un-American act which we should never do. 

Dude....Its the Washington Post.   By definition it is biased.  As is every piece of media you consume.  You have zero standing here, like always.  Just quit. 

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Easy fix.  Dont try to come here illegally.  BOOM!!! Problem solved!

That’s never going to happen. We will always have illegal immigrants because of desperate conditions elsewhere. You can’t stop it. If you really want to slow it down, help make the countries south of us better places to live. And help defeat climate change. But your ideas won’t help at all. 

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Dude....Its the Washington Post.   By definition it is biased.  As is every piece of media you consume.  You have zero standing here, like always.  Just quit. 

Your immediate dismissal of an article filled with links to studies and statistics demonstrates the lack of seriousness and integrity of your position. 

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37 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s also a complete falsehood that Trump’s policies were in any way effective at limiting illegal immigration. When Obama left office illegal immigration was at a 50 year low. It ramped up under Trump, and even more so under Biden but it’s part of the same trend line. 

False.

Obama kept building the Bush era walls because walls work.

The only spike during Trump's administration was after he signed Remain in Mexico and the Dems held it up in court that summer.

It's a trend line that immediately goes up after Biden takes office.  https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters

Brown line is Trump's last year.  Blue line Biden takes office at the end of January.  It's undisputable and another example of you being a pathological liar.  

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3 minutes ago, Horseman said:

False.

Obama kept building the Bush era walls because walls work.

The only spike during Trump's administration was when the Dems held up Remain in Mexico in the courts.

It's a trend line that immediately goes up after Biden takes office.  https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters

Brown line is Trump's last year.  Blue line Biden takes office at the end of January.  It's undisputable and another example of you being a pathological liar.  

Why would Democrats challenging a law that wasn’t previously in place increase illegal immigration? That makes no sense.

I am not arguing that Trump’s policies increased illegal immigration; I’m arguing that he was ineffective and it went up during his time in office. Because there is very little we can do about this; the number of illegals is mainly due to outside factors that we have very little control over. It’s a delusion to believe otherwise. 

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4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Why would Democrats challenging a law that wasn’t previously in place increase illegal immigration? That makes no sense.

I am not arguing that Trump’s policies increased illegal immigration; I’m arguing that he was ineffective and it went up during his time in office. Because there is very little we can do about this; the number of illegals is mainly due to outside factors that we have very little control over. It’s a delusion to believe otherwise. 

Because they knew the doors were shutting dumbass.  But it doesn't matter, it happened, google it.

The only spike during the Trump administration was when Remain in Mexico was challenged in court by the Dems.  After they lost and it was put in place the numbers when back down to sub 50K encounters a month.  It's 3-5 times that under Biden.  FACT.  

Back to you to stick your head in the sand if you want.  The numbers don't lie.   

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2 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Because they knew the doors were shutting dumbass.  But it doesn't matter, it happened, google it.

The only spike during the Trump administration was when Remain in Mexico was challenged in court by the Dems.  After they lost and it was put in place the numbers when back down to sub 50K encounters a month.  It's 3-5 times that under Biden.  FACT.  

Back to you to stick your head in the sand if you want.  The numbers don't lie.   

No they don’t. And yes they are increased under Biden. And decreased under Obama. And your premise is completely wrong. 

But Im not going to argue with you further because even if you were right, Trump’s policies would still be immoral and worthy of this great nation. And you’re disgracing yourself by defending them. 

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37 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Easy fix.  Dont try to come here illegally.  BOOM!!! Problem solved!

They also wouldn't if our asylum process didn't allow them to so up with a family and little consequences.    They know they largely have a LEGAL pathway in, and years to wait before they have to really prove anything.  

I understand your sentiment, but the reason we love our country is the reason people are risking their lives to get here.  What I want instead of ignorant Trump rhetoric is some honest aldult talk about how many we can realistically accept, what the cost/benefit is, and go from there.  Instead we have both sides profitting off these people while one side pretends there is no downside, and the other pretends there is no benefit while nothing of consequence is addressed.  

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Just now, The Real timschochet said:

No they don’t. And yes they are increased under Biden. And decreased under Obama. And your premise is completely wrong. 

But Im not going to argue with you further because even if you were right, Trump’s policies would still be immoral and worthy of this great nation. And you’re disgracing yourself by defending them. 

It's not a premise it's FACT.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration/fy-2019

Follow the red line and the sequence of events:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration/fy-2019

Implemented in Jan'19.  Found in court and implemented in July'19 and SCOTUS ruled it was acceptable in Sept'19, the same time it's effectiveness had returned the numbers to sub 50K

Here comes Biden.  Terminated the program in Feb'21 and look at the numbers skyrocket.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters

You can't argue it if you wanted to, it's irrefutable and another example of you being a pathological liar. 

You're a first class piece of chit.  

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57 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It doesn’t. Here’s a good analysis: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/05/31/does-separating-families-at-the-border-discourage-immigration-heres-what-the-research-says/

But again, I have to add that even if I was completely wrong about this and it was completely effective it would still be an immoral, un-American act which we should never do. 

If this were true, then the illegals would be saying that they don't care about the separation.  Why should you? Who are you to oppose their morality?  :dunno:

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Long story short, people are coming here for economic improvement.   No politician is actually serious about stopping the people coming unless they are advocating for heavy fines on the people hiring them, and we know why that is not happening.   Unless the jobs dry up, they are coming.  

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