Hardcore troubadour 14,919 Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, GutterBoy said: No I don't. Would you focking group up and stop acting like a complete ass hole for once in your life. You’re for gender affirming “care”. That’s part of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted June 21, 2023 Love the lack of nuance as usual. Gotta love the internet. Nope, can't be ok with most of gender affirming care because it also is used for adults and does incluse non-surgical/hormone procedures in minors. It's either heroes and patriots vs pedos and groomers. One or the other- and blood will be spilled!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,898 Posted June 21, 2023 1 minute ago, BuckSwope said: Love the lack of nuance as usual. Gotta love the internet. Nope, can't be ok with most of gender affirming care because it also is used for adults and does incluse non-surgical/hormone procedures in minors. It's either heroes and patriots vs pedos and groomers. One or the other- and blood will be spilled!! Tardcore loves to play gotcha and just act like a d1ck. He's not a serious person interested in any real dialogue. Best to be ignored and mocked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,557 Posted June 21, 2023 3 hours ago, GutterBoy said: The irony here is hilarious. The number of gays that are in favor of kiddie porn are very small, but what she is doing is saying that it's large, thus pushing violence against gays. We all know that the biggest threat to children is not the gay community, it's heterosexual adult white males in positions of power (cops, teachers, church leaders) and close family members. These are the people abusing our kids, not some random dude wearing dresses. Is there something about being white that makes men more likely to be child abusers, or more so that they tend to be in positions of power? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,557 Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, BuckSwope said: Love the lack of nuance as usual. Gotta love the internet. Nope, can't be ok with most of gender affirming care because it also is used for adults and does incluse non-surgical/hormone procedures in minors. It's either heroes and patriots vs pedos and groomers. One or the other- and blood will be spilled!! Hormone procedures can be just as effective in destroying the sexual function of a person as surgery can. This is an ambiguation perpetrated by the advocates for gender destruction/mutilation -- they've convinced a lot of people that they are no big deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,898 Posted June 21, 2023 Just now, jerryskids said: Is there something about being white that makes men more likely to be child abusers, or more so that they tend to be in positions of power? I wouldn't think that there is a pedo gene that is more dominant in whites, I think it's more whites are in more positions of power and leadership, hence more opportunity and probably more thoughts that they will just get away with it due to privilege. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, jerryskids said: Hormone procedures can be just as effective in destroying the sexual function of a person as surgery can. This is an ambiguation perpetrated by the advocates for gender destruction/mutilation -- they've convinced a lot of people that they are no big deal. Oh really? wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, I am not advocating for hormones in minors, either. You guys can stop with the nonsense. Gender care does also include therapy, counseling, etc - right? Gender care does also provide services for adults who can choose to do what they want to their bodies, correct? IMO what is happening is all of that is being taken away in cases because of the spotlight on minors, and I think that's wrong. Gender care doesn't have to be banned in total, we have the ability to take away acces to the permanent changes in minors, and that's the way it should go. Again, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,919 Posted June 21, 2023 There is a push to ban counseling for trans kids? I would be totally against that if it were true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,557 Posted June 21, 2023 52 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: Oh really? wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, I am not advocating for hormones in minors, either. You guys can stop with the nonsense. Gender care does also include therapy, counseling, etc - right? Gender care does also provide services for adults who can choose to do what they want to their bodies, correct? IMO what is happening is all of that is being taken away in cases because of the spotlight on minors, and I think that's wrong. Gender care doesn't have to be banned in total, we have the ability to take away acces to the permanent changes in minors, and that's the way it should go. Again, IMO. Is anyone here against counseling for minors? The Left is the one lumping them together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,288 Posted June 21, 2023 This shouldn't even have to be discussed publicly. It shouldn't be political but well Biden et al can't help themselves. Just leave it to individual doctor's with individual patients. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Honcho 5,093 Posted June 21, 2023 I ate too much for lunch, I'd like to end wokeness right now for about 45 minutes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNewGirl 1,342 Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, BuckSwope said: Oh really? wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, I am not advocating for hormones in minors, either. You guys can stop with the nonsense. Gender care does also include therapy, counseling, etc - right? Gender care does also provide services for adults who can choose to do what they want to their bodies, correct? IMO what is happening is all of that is being taken away in cases because of the spotlight on minors, and I think that's wrong. Gender care doesn't have to be banned in total, we have the ability to take away acces to the permanent changes in minors, and that's the way it should go. Again, IMO. One of the hormone suppressors they use (Lupron) causes chemical infertility, or castration and is irreversible. Also has terrible long term effects. https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/ Halting estrogen in females is known to cause bone issues, estrogen is a major hormone that helps with bone development in females and protects us from early heart disease, etc. Lupron in males is generally used for prostate cancer treatment, and ceases testosterone production; causes a chemical castration. It can be reversed in males if they stop taking it, but it takes a while to get testicles, sperm, and other male traits back to normal levels (sometimes years). IMO, this all sounds terrible in itself. Adding surgery to this, esp in minors or very young children just seems so irresponsible. Quote Women who used Lupron a decade or more ago to delay puberty or grow taller described the short-term side effects listed on the pediatric label: pain at the injection site, mood swings, and headaches. Yet they also described conditions that usually affect people much later in life. A 20-year-old from South Carolina was diagnosed with osteopenia, a thinning of the bones, while a 25-year-old from Pennsylvania has osteoporosis and a cracked spine. A 26-year-old in Massachusetts needed a total hip replacement. A 25-year-old in Wisconsin, like Derricott, has chronic pain and degenerative disc disease. “It just feels like I’m being punished for basically being experimented on when I was a child,” said Derricott, of Lawton, Okla. “I’d hate for a child to be put on Lupron, get to my age and go through the things I have been through.” In the interviews with women who took Lupron to delay puberty or grow taller, most described depression and anxiety. Several recounted their struggles, or a daughter’s, with suicidal urges. One mother of a Lupron patient described seizures. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted June 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said: One of the hormone suppressors they use (Lupron) causes chemical infertility, or castration and is irreversible. Also has terrible long term effects. https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/ Halting estrogen in females is known to cause bone issues, estrogen is a major hormone that helps with bone development in females and protects us from early heart disease, etc. Lupron in males is generally used for prostate cancer treatment, and ceases testosterone production; causes a chemical castration. It can be reversed in males if they stop taking it, but it takes a while to get testicles, sperm, and other male traits back to normal levels (sometimes years). IMO, this all sounds terrible in itself. Adding surgery to this, esp in minors or very young children just seems so irresponsible. Uh, I was being sarcastic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNewGirl 1,342 Posted June 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: Uh, I was being sarcastic Oh, sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted June 21, 2023 2 hours ago, jerryskids said: Is anyone here against counseling for minors? The Left is the one lumping them together. When you frame it like that, as in general? No. Do I think people here would be against counseling that in any way had an outcome of a trans kid? Different answer. I think the hysteria and distrust is at such a high level and I've seen comments here that there is no such thing as a trans person that lead me to believe people would be against that type of counseling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,557 Posted June 21, 2023 33 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: Uh, I was being sarcastic FWIW, many people including several here buy into the intentional confusion provided by gender destruction advocates: that is, that the effects of hormones stop once they are not administered. This is technically true, but people interpret that as meaning the person's hormones take over and will "undo" the damage. This is not true. Whatever is lost can not be regained, so the victim will never recover, and live life somewhere between reduced and zero sexual/reproductive function. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,557 Posted June 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, League Champion said: I like this chick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted June 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, jerryskids said: FWIW, many people including several here buy into the intentional confusion provided by gender destruction advocates: that is, that the effects of hormones stop once they are not administered. This is technically true, but people interpret that as meaning the person's hormones take over and will "undo" the damage. This is not true. Whatever is lost can not be regained, so the victim will never recover, and live life somewhere between reduced and zero sexual/reproductive function. I get it. I'm in a foul mood today and being a bit of a pissy biatch as well. Long story short if your solution and actions is to ban and/or shut down all the gender affirming care, which we have all admitted also includes counseling/therapy, without providing that service elsewhere or offering a solution to fill that void or address the overflow into an already backlogged mental health system, then I would question how much you truly want to help those people. And this is largely what I see happening from the right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avoiding injuries 1,505 Posted June 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: I get it. I'm in a foul mood today and being a bit of a pissy biatch as well. Long story short if your solution and actions is to ban and/or shut down all the gender affirming care, which we have all admitted also includes counseling/therapy, without providing that service elsewhere or offering a solution to fill that void or address the overflow into an already backlogged mental health system, then I would question how much you truly want to help those people. And this is largely what I see happening from the right. Yes, let’s keep the counseling and therapy. That’s extremely important. Let’s have parents in complete control until the kid is 18. Eliminate surgery for minors and severely limit the use of hormone therapy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,557 Posted June 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: I get it. I'm in a foul mood today and being a bit of a pissy biatch as well. Long story short if your solution and actions is to ban and/or shut down all the gender affirming care, which we have all admitted also includes counseling/therapy, without providing that service elsewhere or offering a solution to fill that void or address the overflow into an already backlogged mental health system, then I would question how much you truly want to help those people. And this is largely what I see happening from the right. I philosophically agree with you, with the caveat that true gender dysphoria is very rare, so I would expect the counseling to not be a rubber stamp that the child is trans, but rather a deep exploration and evaluation for gender dysphoria, as well as the various other mental illnesses which correlate to self-identification of trans (e.g., depression, anxiety, self-hatred). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted June 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said: Yes, let’s keep the counseling and therapy. That’s extremely important. Let’s have parents in complete control until the kid is 18. Eliminate surgery for minors and severely limit the use of hormone therapy. Is that what is happening, or is there a push to end gender affirming care completely and closing the clinics? As usual I see one side wanting it all, the other wanting it banned or shut down and me shaking my head because I think the answer is in the middle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,557 Posted June 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: Is that what is happening, or is there a push to end gender affirming care completely and closing the clinics? As usual I see one side wanting it all, the other wanting it banned or shut down. Whoa, I said counseling, not the clinics. The clinics exist to rubber stamp people for more expensive (and destructive) procedures. We need to take a long hard look at them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avoiding injuries 1,505 Posted June 21, 2023 1 minute ago, BuckSwope said: Is that what is happening, or is there a push to end gender affirming care completely and closing the clinics? As usual I see one side wanting it all, the other wanting it banned or shut down. I honestly haven’t seen anyone trying to eliminate counseling and therapy for gender dysphoria. As a parent, we’ve successfully used counseling after Covid for one of our kids. I feel like it may have been socially frowned upon/awkward when I was growing up (just like for Tony Soprano), but it’s helped too many people for it to be criticized today. But like stated above, it should be used to help the child get through their feelings and emotions instead of confirming their dysphoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted June 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, jerryskids said: I philosophically agree with you, with the caveat that true gender dysphoria is very rare, so I would expect the counseling to not be a rubber stamp that the child is trans, but rather a deep exploration and evaluation for gender dysphoria, as well as the various other mental illnesses which correlate to self-identification of trans (e.g., depression, anxiety, self-hatred). My ideal world would have the two separated a bit. E.g. - the diagnoses would come from outside of the clinic, or we need 2 doctors to sign off they are truly suffering from GD. I have no clue exactly how much it was going on, but it did seem like way too many were being pushed through with minimal if any psych evals, which is wrong and needs to stop. Separating them a bit would help infuse some trust in the process. Then any counseling/therapy at the gender clinics would be more dealing with the process, family, whatever - not diagnosing for treatment. But, as I was getting at with AI above, what I more see happening is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, the attempt to shut down care relating to this issue, but no additional solutions to provide said psych care for these people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted June 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said: I honestly haven’t seen anyone trying to eliminate counseling and therapy for gender dysphoria. As a parent, we’ve successfully used counseling after Covid for one of our kids. I feel like it may have been socially frowned upon/awkward when I was growing up (just like for Tony Soprano), but it’s helped too many people for it to be criticized today. But like stated above, it should be used to help the child get through their feelings and emotions instead of confirming their dysphoria. I see an effort to end gender affiming care - which 100% does include couseling and therapy for GD. Yes, it includes hormones and surguries, but that is not the majority of trans patients that get those things. I am fine restricting those options to 18+, I am not fine with ending it all together. I can't speak for others, but this is where I am coming from when I am pushing back against these bans and shut downs. I'm not convinced that these patients are getting adequate psych care when that happens, and I don't see solutions to fill the void. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,919 Posted June 21, 2023 52 minutes ago, League Champion said: Wow. She’s as dumb as Gutterboy with the reaches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,919 Posted June 21, 2023 Still waiting to see any evidence of a push to deny psychiatric care to these people. I would be 100 pct against that were it true. Maybe leftist boogeymen could use some counseling? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,557 Posted June 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: My ideal world would have the two separated a bit. E.g. - the diagnoses would come from outside of the clinic, or we need 2 doctors to sign off they are truly suffering from GD. I have no clue exactly how much it was going on, but it did seem like way too many were being pushed through with minimal if any psych evals, which is wrong and needs to stop. Separating them a bit would help infuse some trust in the process. Then any counseling/therapy at the gender clinics would be more dealing with the process, family, whatever - not diagnosing for treatment. But, as I was getting at with AI above, what I more see happening is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, the attempt to shut down care relating to this issue, but no additional solutions to provide said psych care for these people. I like the idea of separating the diagnosis and the treatment, as long as (and I'm confident you'll agree) the kids who aren't diagnosed with gender dysphoria have an alternate counseling route to deal with whatever led them there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonS 3,292 Posted June 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Mike Honcho said: I ate too much for lunch, I'd like to end wokeness right now for about 45 minutes. #metoo Chock full o' sushi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,557 Posted June 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, DonS said: #metoo Chock full o' sushi. Mmm... I may go for sushi tonight; my wife has a work team dinner and I'm on my own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,898 Posted June 21, 2023 48 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Wow. She’s as dumb as Gutterboy with the reaches. She's on your team you idiot. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,919 Posted June 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, GutterBoy said: She's on your team you idiot. No she’s not. She’s an idiot, which puts her firmly in your camp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireballer 2,639 Posted June 21, 2023 11 hours ago, GutterBoy said: The irony here is hilarious. The number of gays that are in favor of kiddie porn are very small, but what she is doing is saying that it's large, thus pushing violence against gays. We all know that the biggest threat to children is not the gay community, it's heterosexual adult white males in positions of power (cops, teachers, church leaders) and close family members. These are the people abusing our kids, not some random dude wearing dresses. 66% of abuse by heteros if I recall correctly? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,825 Posted June 21, 2023 2 hours ago, BuckSwope said: includes counseling/therapy This is an honest question as I don't know. I am for therapy as I think many of these people suffer from mental illness. Is there special trans therapy? Do other people with other mental disorders get a different brand of therapists? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,898 Posted June 21, 2023 28 minutes ago, Fireballer said: 66% of abuse by heteros if I recall correctly? 99% https://www.zeroabuseproject.org/victim-assistance/jwrc/keep-kids-safe/sexuality-of-offenders/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireballer 2,639 Posted June 21, 2023 46 minutes ago, GutterBoy said: 99% https://www.zeroabuseproject.org/victim-assistance/jwrc/keep-kids-safe/sexuality-of-offenders/ My bad On 4/22/2023 at 8:42 AM, GutterBoy said: How would you explain the fact that 66% of sexual predators are heterosexual? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted June 21, 2023 48 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said: This is an honest question as I don't know. I am for therapy as I think many of these people suffer from mental illness. Is there special trans therapy? Do other people with other mental disorders get a different brand of therapists? Yes/no. There are all kinds of specialists and leans, just like medical doctors. My wife is bi-polar. She sees a consistent psychiatrist for med adjustments and other things, but sees other people in the field for the more bi-weekly talking through your feelings portion of the program. From my experience the psychiatrists are more general, see a bunch of different illnesses, because they are mostly the keys to the meds. The counselors/therapists/psychologists are a bit more focused - style of therapy, specialization in a type of trauma or illness (e.g. people who help with childhood abuse or rape victims for example). Where I am going with this is that (and anybody feel free to correct me here) my understanding is these gender affirming care clinics are a mixed bag of stuff dealing with this issue - part of that is chopping off parts and part of that is the counseling/therapy part of it. These places become a catch all for people - sort of on the lines of an abortion clinic, as there they have the actual abortion and counseling in the same spot. The main problems with the clinics are two-fold as I see it: 1. many or most were allowing the hormones/surgeries for minors 2. Many or most didn't have the ability to diagnose the patient as truly GD - it's more about support/family counseling, etc. that I describe above. So what is happening way too often is that kids are told elsewhere that they are trans or GD, they go to these clinics where they treat them as such and go forward with all the rest. So the important part about the psych evals, diagnosis, meds, etc. seems to be largely skipped over. My 1 and 2 need to be addressed and are not acceptable, but IMO banning this care for minors totally is wrong because now these patients wouldn't have access to the counselors, family care, things like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,182 Posted June 21, 2023 That's the defining feature of being gay. The telltale sign is wanting to stick your d*ck in boys/men. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
League Champion 1,896 Posted June 21, 2023 The Dems think putting your D in a filthy B-Hole is normal. Huh???? And they wonder why we call them pervs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites