Gender Dysphoria - GREAT article.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

I'm not an expert in that organization, but I'm pretty sure that the last time you linked wiki a few months ago, it mentioned the little tidbit that the organization was founded and is run by gay people.  I don't see that in the current incantation however.  That seems like an important details for an "impartial" site like wikipedia, no?  Then again, it is well established that wiki is very far Left in its politics.  I'd trust them for, say, an explanation of eigenvectors and linear algebra, but not on a woke topic.

https://www.gaysagainstgroomers.com/about

Who knew you could go directly to their site and get the info instead of the liberal propaganda sites?  Weird that squizturd couldn't figure that out. 

Or maybe he just likes slurping the propaganda instead?

[League Champion 1,896]

Where's GUTTERBOY, I MEAN RON. 

 

 

[League Champion 1,896]

 

[League Champion 1,896]

 

[League Champion 1,896]

 

[League Champion 1,896]

On 7/27/2023 at 12:36 PM, edjr said:

Tattoos are a form of mental disorder as well. 

This screams mental asylum

 

[League Champion 1,896]

Same thing

 

 

[RLLD 4,143]

Gender referrals associated with more mental health problems and younger age

Quote

In recent years, Finland has led the way in curtailing the widespread professional recommendation of gender transitioning in minors. In 2020, the Scandinavian nation announced it would be prioritizing psychological interventions instead of affirmation for gender dysphoric youth, particularly those presenting with a post-pubertal onset.

 

Just a little sign of hope....that there remain those not consumed by this societal contagion pretending that cutting little kids is some "solution"

[The Real timschochet 6,402]

58 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Gender referrals associated with more mental health problems and younger age

 

Just a little sign of hope....that there remain those not consumed by this societal contagion pretending that cutting little kids is some "solution"

That’s too bad. They’re moving in the wrong direction. 

[RLLD 4,143]

45 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

That’s too bad. They’re moving in the wrong direction. 

You might be correct.  I see this as a positive because to me the act of cutting kids due to mental illness, let alone simple childhood exploration, is really not too distant from shock therapy or lombotomy as a solution for mental health.

[edjr 6,578]

 

[jerryskids 6,556]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

That’s too bad. They’re moving in the wrong direction. 

This could not be more wrong.  Your inability to see that a huge social contagion is going on, particularly with troubled pubescent girls, is incredibly naive.

From the article:

Quote

Previous research has shown that roughly two-thirds of children seeking transition today have other mental health diagnoses. In many cases, these problems preceded the onset of their gender dysphoria, which suggests that what they are struggling with may be rooted in something other than their gender. Similar results have been found in adults with gender dysphoria, with 30% to 40% presenting with additional mental health concerns, such as substance use and personality disorders, anxiety, and depression.

The Finnish study confirmed two well-documented trends in the research literature: that high rates of psychiatric co-morbidity are evident in the gender dysphoric population and that psychiatric needs often do not lessen after transition. As well, anyone who has ever known an adolescent girl or was once one knows that identity questioning is a typical part of the developmental process. The study’s authors also acknowledged the concurrent mental health crisis burgeoning among young people in the West, stemming from the widespread use of social media.

What is it that @Baker Boylikes to say?  Something like "Don't be afraid to see what you see."  It's right there, in front of you, yet you refuse to see it.

[The Real timschochet 6,402]

51 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

This could not be more wrong.  Your inability to see that a huge social contagion is going on, particularly with troubled pubescent girls, is incredibly naive.

From the article:

What is it that @Baker Boylikes to say?  Something like "Don't be afraid to see what you see."  It's right there, in front of you, yet you refuse to see it.

I will repeat what I have asserted before which I get from the vast majority of medical experts on this subject who, apparently, are as “naive” as I am: in most cases the additional mental stress is a result of rejection of the subject’s gender dysphoria by family, friends and society: 

[jerryskids 6,556]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I will repeat what I have asserted before which I get from the vast majority of medical experts on this subject who, apparently, are as “naive” as I am: in most cases the additional mental stress is a result of rejection of the subject’s gender dysphoria by family, friends and society: 

You often refer to this "vast majority of medical experts," yet you never quote any.  Here, I'll quote the Finnish study from the article, which was published in European Psychiatry:

Quote

Results

The GD group had received many times more specialist-level psychiatric treatment both before and after contacting specialized GIS than had their matched controls. A marked increase over time in psychiatric needs was observed. Among the GD group, relative risk for psychiatric needs after contacting GIS increased from 3.3 among those with the first appointment in GIS during 1996–2000 to 4.6 when the first appointment in GIS was in 2016–2019. When index period and psychiatric treatment before contacting GIS were accounted for, GR patients who had and who had not proceeded to medical GR had an equal risk compared to controls of needing subsequent psychiatric treatment.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-psychiatry/article/have-the-psychiatric-needs-of-people-seeking-gender-reassignment-changed-as-their-numbers-increase-a-register-study-in-finland/D09F9414F798E0462AF911152E7BF576

Look at that, an actual scientific study!

I'll end with the last paragraph of the original article, it sums it up nicely.  TL;dr -- you are not helping these confused young people by ignoring their cries for help.

Quote

This, of course, counters the commonly accepted narrative that any and all mental health problems experienced by gender dysphoric people are purely due to social stigma and distress associated with feeling that one is living in the wrong body. For those who have gotten swept up in this movement, transition may temporarily alleviate their suffering, but it won’t address the underlying cause. It does vulnerable and impressionable young people a disservice to pretend otherwise.

 

[TheNewGirl 1,342]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

That’s too bad. They’re moving in the wrong direction. 

How is addressing mental health and societies "contagion" moving backwards? You'd rather they just listen to pre-pubescent children and give them drugs and surgery that does irreparable harm? Sterilize them when they are 12 so that when they are 25 they realize they were wrong and want children? 

I don't understand how addressing the BIG picture (including ALL aspects of gender dysphoria; mental, physical, emotional, etc) is bad. 

[Strike 5,185]

Cut first, ask questions later!!!

[RLLD 4,143]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I will repeat what I have asserted before which I get from the vast majority of medical experts on this subject who, apparently, are as “naive” as I am: in most cases the additional mental stress is a result of rejection of the subject’s gender dysphoria by family, friends and society: 

Please understand that for all of history, this mental illness was certainly present and those afflicted were not treated well.  Science in the 20th century arrived at a conclusion, and that conclusion has been challenged.....as it should....this is how science is done.

So a new idea about this emerged, and is being engaged.....but it is being done as if it is some proven "truth", and if that is not bad enough permanent changes are being done to children.....to children.....

So clearly, this recent emergence suits you, and perhaps you see it as some correction to past mistakes.....but when learned scientists do not fall in line.....you seem now suddenly unwilling to move.  If that is your position, why should anyone who disagrees with YOU change THEIR position?

This is the problem with absolutism.

[League Champion 1,896]

On 7/10/2023 at 10:54 AM, squistion said:

for good reason.

 

 

[League Champion 1,896]

Libs, please straighten your people out. They're insane. 

 

 

[edjr 6,578]

@jerryskids

I wish you were a politician. You are absolutely the voice people need to hear. Don’t ever stop.

[jerryskids 6,556]

2 hours ago, edjr said:

@jerryskids

I wish you were a politician. You are absolutely the voice people need to hear. Don’t ever stop.

Thanks.  I wish @The Real timschochetwould acknowledge the response, recognize actual scientific data, and stop referring to his imaginary legion of mental health professionals who help him to support his world view.

[jerryskids 6,556]

It's also unfortunate that in our current society, if you point out that radical medical changes (hormones, surgeries) don't help resolve the underlying mental health issues that people who associate with trans have, you are labeled as transphobic.  This is the benefit of "woke", according to Real Tim.   

[edjr 6,578]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

It's also unfortunate that in our current society, if you point out that radical medical changes (hormones, surgeries) don't help resolve the underlying mental health issues that people who associate with trans have, you are labeled as transphobic.  This is the benefit of "woke", according to Real Tim.   

Woke has 0 benefit. Look at Bill Maher. He is a good barometer. 

[RLLD 4,143]

20 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

It's also unfortunate that in our current society, if you point out that radical medical changes (hormones, surgeries) don't help resolve the underlying mental health issues that people who associate with trans have, you are labeled as transphobic.  This is the benefit of "woke", according to Real Tim.   

But when someone has a disability, we usually try to fix them.   So if someone is blind, we try to restore their sight. I can see how liberals look at these people and want to help them, to "fix" them.

Of course, you have to be the right color and such to fix them, well.....and the right political affiliation.....

If you are not, then you are apparently still evil or something....which is bizarre...

[The Real timschochet 6,402]

42 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

It's also unfortunate that in our current society, if you point out that radical medical changes (hormones, surgeries) don't help resolve the underlying mental health issues that people who associate with trans have, you are labeled as transphobic.  This is the benefit of "woke", according to Real Tim.   

I don’t think this makes you transphobic. But I do think it makes you wrong. Because it DOES help resolve the underlying mental health issues. Although sometimes the lack of societal acceptance can prevent this. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,482]

50 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Thanks.  I wish @The Real timschochetwould acknowledge the response, recognize actual scientific data, and stop referring to his imaginary legion of mental health professionals who help him to support his world view.

He's waiting for an activist group to perform a study that will "debunk" the study you posted.

[The Real timschochet 6,402]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

He's waiting for an activist group to perform a study that will "debunk" the study you posted.

No Im not. I don’t doubt the study. I disagree with his conclusions. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,482]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

No Im not. I don’t doubt the study. I disagree with his conclusions. 

So now you disagree with science?

[The Real timschochet 6,402]

6 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So now you disagree with science?

His conclusions aren’t science. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,482]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

His conclusions aren’t science. 

They're not his conclusions, they're conclusions of the study.

[The Real timschochet 6,402]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

They're not his conclusions, they're conclusions of the study.

You’re missing my point, let’s start over. 
 

It’s the conclusion of the study that many of those who have surgery for gender dysphoria still have mental issues. I don’t question that conclusion. 
 

It’s the conclusion of @jerryskids, and those that agree with him, that this means the surgery doesn’t help solve the mental issues caused by gender dysphoria. I STRONGLY disagree with this conclusion. I think it’s proven false by the simple fact that other studies show that only a tiny percentage of those who have the surgery ever regret it. 
 

The obvious point, which people like you refuse to acknowledge, is that many who have the surgery continue to have mental issues because society won’t accept what they have done. Perhaps if you and others stopped denigrating them, stop calling them freaks, stopped trying to make all sorts of new laws designed to deny them equal participation in our society and culture, they would be a little less messed up. 

[jerryskids 6,556]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

You’re missing my point, let’s start over. 
 

It’s the conclusion of the study that many of those who have surgery for gender dysphoria still have mental issues. I don’t question that conclusion. 
 

It’s the conclusion of @jerryskids, and those that agree with him, that this means the surgery doesn’t help solve the mental issues caused by gender dysphoria. I STRONGLY disagree with this conclusion. I think it’s proven false by the simple fact that other studies show that only a tiny percentage of those who have the surgery ever regret it. 
 

The obvious point, which people like you refuse to acknowledge, is that many who have the surgery continue to have mental issues because society won’t accept what they have done. Perhaps if you and others stopped denigrating them, stop calling them freaks, stopped trying to make all sorts of new laws designed to deny them equal participation in our society and culture, they would be a little less messed up. 

I don't understand how you can differentiate "my" conclusion from that of the report, since I merely posted that of the report.  Here, I'll post the end of the results again for you:

Quote

When index period and psychiatric treatment before contacting GIS were accounted for, GR patients who had and who had not proceeded to medical GR had an equal risk compared to controls of needing subsequent psychiatric treatment.

That being said, it's clear that you don't understand my position, or choose not to.  My position is:  until recently, when we started celebrating being trans, the only people who were trans were... actual trans people, with gender dysphoria, who were willing to go through the long, arduous process of confirming their diagnosis, and the life-changing medical acts to change their bodies.  If studies exist which show almost universal happiness with transition (you seem allergic to links on this topic BTW), I'm confident they come from this older cohort, and were likely past puberty and into adulthood before medical interventions.

Since then, we've begun celebrating being trans, have had hundreds of gender clinics pop up, have had reports of less than arduous evaluation of people including young people, and lo and behold, we've had an astronomical increase in "trans" people.  Particularly girls going through puberty, with the often uncomfortable growth of breasts, unwanted attention from boys, weird feelings from estrogen (side note:  it's not surprising that, when such girls go on testosterone, they feel more confident).  

As such, it is not surprising that people from this latter, younger cohort show no statistically significant reduction in mental issues.  This is completely consistent with "my" conclusion (i.e., that of the report), which is that the vast majority of people identifying as trans these days are NOT truly gender dysphoric.

I would like to see us go back to how it was (I know, I know, old conservative guy), as I described above.  I understand that it is hard on true trans people because they wouldn't be celebrated like they are now, but here's the unfortunate thing:  life isn't always fair.  They've been dealt a hand where their brain thinks they are in the wrong sex body.  You can not like describing it as a mental issue, but that's what it is.  That is why some people object to ANY medical intervention.  Personally, I don't fall into that camp, for true trans adults -- I don't begrudge them seeking peace, unless we find some cure, which some gender dysphoric people might prefer.

What doesn't make sense is changing society to conform to a mental illness:  men in women's sports, men in women's spaces like prisons, spas, etc., transitioning kids just because they feel that way this month, etc.

I'm confident I've wasted my time, because you are convinced that this astronomical (and growing) association with trans is all legit.  I've explained above how this defies reason, and the data in the link bears that out, but you will refer to your alleged vast majority of experts, and we'll get nowhere.   

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

5 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I don't understand how you can differentiate "my" conclusion from that of the report, since I merely posted that of the report.  Here, I'll post the end of the results again for you:

That being said, it's clear that you don't understand my position, or choose not to.  My position is:  until recently, when we started celebrating being trans, the only people who were trans were... actual trans people, with gender dysphoria, who were willing to go through the long, arduous process of confirming their diagnosis, and the life-changing medical acts to change their bodies.  If studies exist which show almost universal happiness with transition (you seem allergic to links on this topic BTW), I'm confident they come from this older cohort, and were likely past puberty and into adulthood before medical interventions.

Since then, we've begun celebrating being trans, have had hundreds of gender clinics pop up, have had reports of less than arduous evaluation of people including young people, and lo and behold, we've had an astronomical increase in "trans" people.  Particularly girls going through puberty, with the often uncomfortable growth of breasts, unwanted attention from boys, weird feelings from estrogen (side note:  it's not surprising that, when such girls go on testosterone, they feel more confident).  

As such, it is not surprising that people from this latter, younger cohort show no statistically significant reduction in mental issues.  This is completely consistent with "my" conclusion (i.e., that of the report), which is that the vast majority of people identifying as trans these days are NOT truly gender dysphoric.

I would like to see us go back to how it was (I know, I know, old conservative guy), as I described above.  I understand that it is hard on true trans people because they wouldn't be celebrated like they are now, but here's the unfortunate thing:  life isn't always fair.  They've been dealt a hand where their brain thinks they are in the wrong sex body.  You can not like describing it as a mental issue, but that's what it is.  That is why some people object to ANY medical intervention.  Personally, I don't fall into that camp, for true trans adults -- I don't begrudge them seeking peace, unless we find some cure, which some gender dysphoric people might prefer.

What doesn't make sense is changing society to conform to a mental illness:  men in women's sports, men in women's spaces like prisons, spas, etc., transitioning kids just because they feel that way this month, etc.

I'm confident I've wasted my time, because you are convinced that this astronomical (and growing) association with trans is all legit.  I've explained above how this defies reason, and the data in the link bears that out, but you will refer to your alleged vast majority of experts, and we'll get nowhere.   

Jerry - you think those that belong in the liberal cult listen to reason, logic, facts and truth?  No.  All that matters is The Message.

[The Real timschochet 6,402]

15 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I don't understand how you can differentiate "my" conclusion from that of the report, since I merely posted that of the report.  Here, I'll post the end of the results again for you:

That being said, it's clear that you don't understand my position, or choose not to.  My position is:  until recently, when we started celebrating being trans, the only people who were trans were... actual trans people, with gender dysphoria, who were willing to go through the long, arduous process of confirming their diagnosis, and the life-changing medical acts to change their bodies.  If studies exist which show almost universal happiness with transition (you seem allergic to links on this topic BTW), I'm confident they come from this older cohort, and were likely past puberty and into adulthood before medical interventions.

Since then, we've begun celebrating being trans, have had hundreds of gender clinics pop up, have had reports of less than arduous evaluation of people including young people, and lo and behold, we've had an astronomical increase in "trans" people.  Particularly girls going through puberty, with the often uncomfortable growth of breasts, unwanted attention from boys, weird feelings from estrogen (side note:  it's not surprising that, when such girls go on testosterone, they feel more confident).  

As such, it is not surprising that people from this latter, younger cohort show no statistically significant reduction in mental issues.  This is completely consistent with "my" conclusion (i.e., that of the report), which is that the vast majority of people identifying as trans these days are NOT truly gender dysphoric.

I would like to see us go back to how it was (I know, I know, old conservative guy), as I described above.  I understand that it is hard on true trans people because they wouldn't be celebrated like they are now, but here's the unfortunate thing:  life isn't always fair.  They've been dealt a hand where their brain thinks they are in the wrong sex body.  You can not like describing it as a mental issue, but that's what it is.  That is why some people object to ANY medical intervention.  Personally, I don't fall into that camp, for true trans adults -- I don't begrudge them seeking peace, unless we find some cure, which some gender dysphoric people might prefer.

What doesn't make sense is changing society to conform to a mental illness:  men in women's sports, men in women's spaces like prisons, spas, etc., transitioning kids just because they feel that way this month, etc.

I'm confident I've wasted my time, because you are convinced that this astronomical (and growing) association with trans is all legit.  I've explained above how this defies reason, and the data in the link bears that out, but you will refer to your alleged vast majority of experts, and we'll get nowhere.   

You haven’t wasted your time because I always enjoy reading your thoughtful posts. But I don’t find your arguments compelling. I do think that it’s legit. I don’t believe we’re celebrating a mental illness. I do think we should change societal attitudes to accommodate trans people. 

[League Champion 1,896]

 

[League Champion 1,896]

 

[edjr 6,578]

Thank you @Cdub100  for the new thread  

[jonmx 2,424]

On 12/14/2023 at 8:55 PM, jerryskids said:

I don't understand how you can differentiate "my" conclusion from that of the report, since I merely posted that of the report.  Here, I'll post the end of the results again for you:

That being said, it's clear that you don't understand my position, or choose not to.  My position is:  until recently, when we started celebrating being trans, the only people who were trans were... actual trans people, with gender dysphoria, who were willing to go through the long, arduous process of confirming their diagnosis, and the life-changing medical acts to change their bodies.  If studies exist which show almost universal happiness with transition (you seem allergic to links on this topic BTW), I'm confident they come from this older cohort, and were likely past puberty and into adulthood before medical interventions.

Since then, we've begun celebrating being trans, have had hundreds of gender clinics pop up, have had reports of less than arduous evaluation of people including young people, and lo and behold, we've had an astronomical increase in "trans" people.  Particularly girls going through puberty, with the often uncomfortable growth of breasts, unwanted attention from boys, weird feelings from estrogen (side note:  it's not surprising that, when such girls go on testosterone, they feel more confident).  

As such, it is not surprising that people from this latter, younger cohort show no statistically significant reduction in mental issues.  This is completely consistent with "my" conclusion (i.e., that of the report), which is that the vast majority of people identifying as trans these days are NOT truly gender dysphoric.

I would like to see us go back to how it was (I know, I know, old conservative guy), as I described above.  I understand that it is hard on true trans people because they wouldn't be celebrated like they are now, but here's the unfortunate thing:  life isn't always fair.  They've been dealt a hand where their brain thinks they are in the wrong sex body.  You can not like describing it as a mental issue, but that's what it is.  That is why some people object to ANY medical intervention.  Personally, I don't fall into that camp, for true trans adults -- I don't begrudge them seeking peace, unless we find some cure, which some gender dysphoric people might prefer.

What doesn't make sense is changing society to conform to a mental illness:  men in women's sports, men in women's spaces like prisons, spas, etc., transitioning kids just because they feel that way this month, etc.

I'm confident I've wasted my time, because you are convinced that this astronomical (and growing) association with trans is all legit.  I've explained above how this defies reason, and the data in the link bears that out, but you will refer to your alleged vast majority of experts, and we'll get nowhere.   

 

This idea that children can self-disgnosis their condition which leads them down the path of radical hormonal treatments and possible disabilitating surgeries is the most asinine practice in modern medicine.   

The amazing thing is there were Doctors in England, France and Sweeden who has stood up to this radical craziness, but nobody talks about that here.  England has shutdown every gender clinic in the country except one and adapted tougher standards before treatments are given.  But good luck reading about it or finding it on a Google search here in the US.  Unless you know precisely what you are looking for, all the stories and search results will be from radical trans activists spouting their lies.  We are being manipulated by big tech, media and our educational system.  

[jonmx 2,424]

When you removed the radical trans activists from controlling medical models, you get a rationale approach to caring for children.

________<

The NHS Ends the "Gender-Affirmative Care Model" for Youth in England

The gender-clinic model of care has been replaced with holistic support and appropriate care.

 

Following extensive stakeholder engagement and a systematic review of evidence, England’s National Health Service (NHS) has issued new draft guidance for the treatment of gender dysphoria in minors, which sharply deviates from the “gender-affirming” approach. The previous presumption that gender dysphoric youth <18 need specialty “transgender healthcare” has been supplanted by the developmentally-informed position that most need psychoeducation and psychotherapy. Eligibility determination for medical interventions will be made by a centralized Service and puberty blockers will be delivered only in research protocol settings. The abandonment of the "gender-affirming" model by England had been foreshadowed by The Cass Review's interim report, which defined "affirmative model" as a "model of gender healthcare that originated in the USA."

guidelines do not mention surgery, as surgery has never been a covered benefit under England’s NHS for minors.  

The new NHS guidelines represent a repudiation of the past decade’s approach to management of gender dysphoric minors.  The “gender-affirming” approach, endorsed by WPATH and characterized by the conceptualization of gender-dysphoric minors as “transgender children” has been replaced with a holistic view of identity development in children and adolescents. In addition, there is a new recognition that many gender-dysphoric adolescents suffer from mental illness and neurocognitive difficulties, which make it hard to predict the course of their gender identity development.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Following extensive stakeholder engagement and a systematic review of evidence, England’s National Health Service (NHS) has issued new draft guidance for the treatment of gender dysphoria in minors, which sharply deviates from the

[Maximum Overkill 1,739]