Illinois sheriffs prepare for 'America's most dangerous law' to come into effect

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

So, any report on how the fine people of Ferguson are doing since the report that saved them from the real problem, the police? We’re waiting. Lol. 

[League Champion 1,896]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

So, any report on how the fine people of Ferguson are doing sine the report that saved them from the real problem, the police? We’re waiting. Lol. 

I'm sure they're just fine. 

Less Police = Less Crime. Everyone knows that 

[dogcows 1,030]

17 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

I’ve corrected you on this issue numerous times - with facts and figures from the Washington Post and FBI proving undeniably that the exact opposite is true - that the number of truly innocent  people killed by police each year is so low as to be statistically insignificant.

You know all this, yet you keep pimping this same anti-cop misinformation every chance you get.  Honestly - it makes you look like a POS.

Nothing I posted is misinformation. Just facts. Which seem to have gotten you all up in your feelings.

[dogcows 1,030]

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So, any report on how the fine people of Ferguson are doing since the report that saved them from the real problem, the police? We’re waiting. Lol. 

Good question: The Ferguson police are still fighting against reforms, tooth and nail. I guess we’ll never know whether reforms can work or not if police refuse to take part. Ferguson police still have a system that allows them to arrest people without warrants or probable cause, ignoring the DOJ’s orders to stop doing so. And why? It turns out it’s quite profitable to be able to ignore due process and arrest or take other actions against whoever they want.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/seven-years-after-ferguson-investigation-missouri-police-still-resist-reforms-2022-11-10/

The most corrupt police departments will never change unless they are forced to change.

[Mark Davis 339]

As someone who used to actually vote D more than R in my younger days, this is an example of where D policy left what I could justify voting for. 

[BuckSwope 654]

3 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

As someone who used to actually vote D more than R in my younger days, this is an example of where D policy left what I could justify voting for. 

I think both are wrong for reasons I posted above, because it's all or nothing with both sides.    Universal application of policing policy isn't the answer, and I never see any actual nuanced talk.  Defund the Police was a completely stupid movement and name - easy target.   That said, I found some of the ideas I read under the umbrella of the idea - like cutting down on the police interactions with infractions, reallocating police in different ways, increasing training - things like that.  But like I said, any wiff of that in the last decade gets you branded as an anti-cop, pro-crime flaming lib.  I think it's consistent with my lines of smaller government and wanting tax money spent effectively.   

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

34 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Good question: The Ferguson police are still fighting against reforms, tooth and nail. I guess we’ll never know whether reforms can work or not if police refuse to take part. Ferguson police still have a system that allows them to arrest people without warrants or probable cause, ignoring the DOJ’s orders to stop doing so. And why? It turns out it’s quite profitable to be able to ignore due process and arrest or take other actions against whoever they want.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/seven-years-after-ferguson-investigation-missouri-police-still-resist-reforms-2022-11-10/

The most corrupt police departments will never change unless they are forced to change.

Wait, in the town of Ferguson Missouri, USA, the police DON’T need probable cause to arrest someone? And the local DA , the state AG, the US attorney of that district, the DOJ and the SCOTUS go along with it ? It’s a constitution free zone there, like CHOP in Seattle? They are powerless against the Ferguson Missouri PD? You have once again, beclowned yourself. I am in awe. 

[5-Points 3,388]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

WOW, imagine that.  Correct.   

So a policing method that was shown to be pretty effective in the 3% of the city during peak night rowdy hours was shown to not be effective in the burbs at 2pm (remember, about 50% of the crime was here and during those times).   It was also so concentrated that they could talk about streets and blocks.   So while it seems counterintuitive - that method could be effective in one part of a district but not another. 

Use this method globally, and one part of the community feels like they are being harrassed and the other part sees the crime dropping and is pissed when somebody talks about decreasing police - which is what we saw play out in the last decade.  

I usually default to following the money - IMO what happened is decades ago we saw those big drops in crime in those areas doing that method in the experiments/studies, but applied it incorrectly and too broadly.  Over the decades the areas outside of those spots felt overpoliced and at the same time it was hard to get off that goverment teet and revenue that was created by that global policy.    

So a policing method that was proven effective in high crime urban areas wasn't as effective in suburban areas? 

There's prolly a reason for that but bringing up demographics is racist, so we won't go there. 

Police departments don't flood low crime areas with resources that could be more beneficial elsewhere. If you have a bunch of cops in your neighborhood, you most likely have a bunch of criminals in your neighborhood. Instead of feeling "overpoliced" perhaps you should thank the PD for putting their limited resources in your neighborhood to keep you safe from the criminals roaming free in the area. 

And when they catch them, they should lock them up. Not let them go on their own recognizance. 

 

[dogcows 1,030]

58 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Wait, in the town of Ferguson Missouri, USA, the police DON’T need probable cause to arrest someone? And the local DA , the state AG, the US attorney of that district, the DOJ and the SCOTUS go along with it ? It’s a constitution free zone there, like CHOP in Seattle? They are powerless against the Ferguson Missouri PD? You have once again, beclowned yourself. I am in awe. 

You clearly didn’t read the article. Why bother replying if you don’t even have the basic facts of what you’re discussing? I think you have logorrhea.

[dogcows 1,030]

5 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

 

And when they catch them, they should lock them up. Not let them go on their own recognizance. 

 

Guilty until proven innocent then?

[League Champion 1,896]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

Guilty until proven innocent then?

Isn't that the way it's always been? 

[seafoam1 2,802]

2 minutes ago, League Champion said:

Isn't that the way it's always been? 

We all know O.J. and DeShaun Watson are guilty right? And they were not even convicted.

[League Champion 1,896]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

We all know O.J. and DeShaun Watson are guilty right? And they were not even convicted.

They want no bail so it's innocent until proven innocent? F'ing hypocrites!! 

[5-Points 3,388]

8 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Guilty until proven innocent then?

You're fine with that policy when it comes to anybody found in the vicinity of the Capitol on January 6th. 

Hypocrite much? 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

10 minutes ago, dogcows said:

You clearly didn’t read the article. Why bother replying if you don’t even have the basic facts of what you’re discussing? I think you have logorrhea.

You said they don’t need PC. Why would I have to read more about it? You read it and told me they don’t. Am I going to read something different? 

[dogcows 1,030]

Just now, 5-Points said:

You're fine with that policy when it comes to anybody found in the vicinity of the Capitol on January 6th. 

Hypocrite much? 

No I’m not. They are all getting fair trials, as they should. I do think they should have arrested them all on the spot instead of waiting and chasing them around the country, but c’est la vie.

[5-Points 3,388]

3 minutes ago, dogcows said:

No I’m not. They are all getting fair trials, as they should. I do think they should have arrested them all on the spot instead of waiting and chasing them around the country, but c’est la vie.

Many people have been locked up, with no bail, for years, some in solitary, since it all went down. 

I haven't heard a peep out of you about it 

Hypocrite 

[Mark Davis 339]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

I think both are wrong for reasons I posted above, because it's all or nothing with both sides.    Universal application of policing policy isn't the answer, and I never see any actual nuanced talk.  Defund the Police was a completely stupid movement and name - easy target.   That said, I found some of the ideas I read under the umbrella of the idea - like cutting down on the police interactions with infractions, reallocating police in different ways, increasing training - things like that.  But like I said, any wiff of that in the last decade gets you branded as an anti-cop, pro-crime flaming lib.  I think it's consistent with my lines of smaller government and wanting tax money spent effectively.   

Sure it's all or nothing for both sides and people throw around hyperbole constantly.  But the Democratic Party of today isn't like the party of Bill Clinton.  Someone with his policies could never win a primary today.  For that matter, neither could Bush 41.  The Democrats are much softer on crime today, see the Clinton era policies.  I didn't quit voting for D's on a national level over that one issue, but it is among them.  I'm not super stoked about either party's lack of fiscal responsibility but at least with the R's there is more runway to fix the issue with lower taxes even if the deficits were to run identical.

[jerryskids 6,566]

7 hours ago, dogcows said:

Here are the stats from New Jersey and the District of Columbia.

https://www.mdrc.org/publication/evaluation-pretrial-justice-system-reforms-use-public-safety-assessment-0

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/02/644085158/what-changed-after-d-c-ended-cash-bail

Both use a risk-assessment model to determine who to release and who to remand. Which, if you think about it, makes a lot more sense than letting people with money go and those without money stay. It’s also quite expensive to incarcerate the poor people who can’t afford bail. Based on these stats, seems like that is a waste of taxpayer money.

I'm interested.  The first article (well, intro, I didn't try to click through to the full article) provides interesting info.  If there really is a way to accurately predict the accused coming back to court and not commit crimes pending trial, that's worth pursuing.  The second article (interview) was less compelling, and makes me think the idea is "well yeah, some people are going to violate the analysis, but equity words!"  Still, worth investigating.

5 hours ago, dogcows said:

Cops kill innocent people all the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elijah_McClain

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/us/police-shooting-video-arizona.html

https://reason.com/2021/10/07/andrew-finch-wichita-kansas-swatting-police-shooting-qualified-immunity/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Breonna_Taylor

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/01/amber-guygers-botham-jean-murder-trial-using-texas-castle-doctrine/

 

But then you say this.  "All of the time" is 5 examples of arguable accuracy?  Pathetic.  Now do links to the 61.5M police encounters in 2018 that didn't result in a cop killing innocent people:

Quote

In 2018, about 61.5 million persons age 16 or older had at least one contact in the prior 12 months with police: 28.9 million U.S. residents experienced contacts initiated by police, 35.5 million initiated contact with police, and 8.9 million had contact with police as a result of a traffic accident (table 1).

 

[League Champion 1,896]

5 hours ago, dogcows said:

Cops kill innocent people all the time.

I know a guy who was killed five times in one year by Cops. 

[easilyscan 863]

5 hours ago, 5-Points said:

The broken light is a valid reason for the stop. Why have codes if we aren't going to enforce them? 

Should it make a difference to the cop if the car he is stopping for a taillight out is a Mercedes or a pos Datsun? 

DUI checkpoints on a holiday weekend are what I call a "fund raiser" but they also take drunk drivers off the road. 

I don't see the problem. 

I'm with you 110% on everything you posted in this thread, except for the point highlighted above.

I want drunk drivers off the road every bit as much as you, but that's never been the right way to go about it imo. If I'm driving erratically, or pulled over for an equipment violation, having expired tabs, etc. & found to be chitfaced drunk, throw the book at me. But don't take away my right to travel freely when I haven't done anything wrong.

[5-Points 3,388]

9 minutes ago, easilyscan said:

I'm with you 110% on everything you posted in this thread, except for the point highlighted above.

I want drunk drivers off the road every bit as much as you, but that's never been the right way to go about it imo. If I'm driving erratically, or pulled over for an equipment violation, having expired tabs, etc. & found to be chitfaced drunk, throw the book at me. But don't take away my right to travel freely when I haven't done anything wrong.

I didn't say I was in favor of them. But, at least here, they're required to publish in the newspaper, in advance, when and where the checkpoints will be conducted. It's up to you to avoid them. 

They're also required to give you "an out" prior to the checkpoint. Granted, there's always somebody monitoring that "out." So if you hang that turn at the last second, you're going to get pulled over. 

I'm also opposed to red light cameras, license plate cameras, and anything else that doesn't require a cop to actually witness you committing a moving violation prior to pulling you over. 

[dogcows 1,030]

2 hours ago, 5-Points said:

Many people have been locked up, with no bail, for years, some in solitary, since it all went down. 

I haven't heard a peep out of you about it 

Hypocrite 

Im not a hypocrite. I pointed out earlier how the DC system works. They do a risk assessment and base the decision to release or remand based on that. The people locked up awaiting trial were considered too much of a risk to release based on that method. I think that’s a pretty decent system.

Has anybody remanded to custody instead of sent home from Jan 6 been acquitted? I guess I could look it up but thought maybe you’d have a source more readily available.

[dogcows 1,030]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

I'm interested.  The first article (well, intro, I didn't try to click through to the full article) provides interesting info.  If there really is a way to accurately predict the accused coming back to court and not commit crimes pending trial, that's worth pursuing.  The second article (interview) was less compelling, and makes me think the idea is "well yeah, some people are going to violate the analysis, but equity words!"  Still, worth investigating.

But then you say this.  "All of the time" is 5 examples of arguable accuracy?  Pathetic.  Now do links to the 61.5M police encounters in 2018 that didn't result in a cop killing innocent people:

 

You can find the DC stats in more detail at the link below, but it’s pretty consistent with that article. The data I’ve seen so far don’t show a significant difference between risk-assessment systems vs cash bail systems, when it comes to court appearances or violent crime by those awaiting trial.

https://www.psa.gov/?q=node/558

As for police killing innocent people, I admit “all the time” was an exaggeration (although I could produce more than just those 5 examples). But my point was to prove that “if you don’t commit a crime, the police will leave you alone” is false. I could go into: The infamous reign of stop and frisk, or the recent mass arrests in San Francisco of skateboarders, or Kansas police making random stops of people with Colorado plates hoping to find a pretext to search cars for weed, and on and on. 

The police do more good than harm, IMO. But I still think we need to call out the things they do wrong, and the ones who act inappropriately or illegally need to be disciplined or removed instead of protected.

[easilyscan 863]

46 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

I didn't say I was in favor of them. But, at least here, they're required to publish in the newspaper, in advance, when and where the checkpoints will be conducted. It's up to you to avoid them. 

They're also required to give you "an out" prior to the checkpoint. Granted, there's always somebody monitoring that "out." So if you hang that turn at the last second, you're going to get pulled over. 

I'm also opposed to red light cameras, license plate cameras, and anything else that doesn't require a cop to actually witness you committing a moving violation prior to pulling you over. 

Got it.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

4 hours ago, dogcows said:

Nothing I posted is misinformation. Just facts. Which seem to have gotten you all up in your feelings.

No.  You’re a focking liar.  “Cops kill innocent people all the time.”  They don’t you POS.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

Dirty, lying, anti-cop Leftist piece of shitt.  That IS who you are.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

On 6/17/2023 at 12:45 PM, Patented Phil said:

Unarmed blacks killed by cops:

2019 - 12

2020 - 18

2021 - 11

2022 - 12

2023 - 5

Meanwhile, over that same period,  203 cops were murdered.  Those were record numbers.

Posted to dogshitt last month.  Turd.

[5-Points 3,388]

38 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Im not a hypocrite. I pointed out earlier how the DC system works. They do a risk assessment and base the decision to release or remand based on that. The people locked up awaiting trial were considered too much of a risk to release based on that method. I think that’s a pretty decent system.

Has anybody remanded to custody instead of sent home from Jan 6 been acquitted? I guess I could look it up but thought maybe you’d have a source more readily available.

So, guilty until proven innocent. 

[League Champion 1,896]

1 hour ago, Patented Phil said:

Unarmed blacks killed by cops:

2019 - 12

2020 - 18

2021 - 11

2022 - 12

2023 - 5

Meanwhile, over that same period,  203 cops were murdered.  Those were record numbers.

 

3 hours ago, dogcows said:

No I’m not. They are all getting fair trials, as they should. I do think they should have arrested them all on the spot instead of waiting and chasing them around the country, but c’est la vie.

Wow, looks like criminals KILL COPS, ALL THE TIME. Ain't that something Dogshizz? 

[seafoam1 2,802]

4 hours ago, Patented Phil said:

Posted to dogshitt last month.  Turd.

Unarmed blacks killed by cops:

2019 - 12

2020 - 18

2021 - 11

2022 - 12

2023 - 5

 

How many are unjustified killings? 

In 2019 it was only 3. I haven't checked the others. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

Yup. Crime in Washington DC is under control.  Here’s some cooked stats from 6 years ago to show you. Meanwhile in 2023… Dogcows =

[Reality 3,097]

Enjoy.

 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

5 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

Unarmed blacks killed by cops:

2019 - 12

2020 - 18

2021 - 11

2022 - 12

2023 - 5

 

How many are unjustified killings? 

In 2019 it was only 3. I haven't checked the others. 

Millions and millions of encounters too - where the cop has no idea if the suspects are armed.

It’s actually the exact OPPOSITE of what dogshitt says - cops have a remarkably low rate of “killing innocent people”.  But dogshitt still pimps the lie, which puts everyone on edge and increases the likelihood someone getting killed - more often than not the cop.

Dogshitt and the other Left-Tards have blood on their hands for continuing this lie.  Legit.

[Baker Boy 1,688]

13 hours ago, dogcows said:

No I’m not. They are all getting fair trials, as they should. I do think they should have arrested them all on the spot instead of holding the Capital doors open and inviting them in.

Fixed

[League Champion 1,896]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

Fixed

TRUTH 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,833]

3 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Fixed

Revisionist history by the left - it's a thing 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

Enjoy.

 

Here’s the problem with America today.  We’ve allowed Idiots like this lady to be in a position of authority.

[jerryskids 6,566]

10 hours ago, dogcows said:

You can find the DC stats in more detail at the link below, but it’s pretty consistent with that article. The data I’ve seen so far don’t show a significant difference between risk-assessment systems vs cash bail systems, when it comes to court appearances or violent crime by those awaiting trial.

https://www.psa.gov/?q=node/558

As for police killing innocent people, I admit “all the time” was an exaggeration (although I could produce more than just those 5 examples). But my point was to prove that “if you don’t commit a crime, the police will leave you alone” is false. I could go into: The infamous reign of stop and frisk, or the recent mass arrests in San Francisco of skateboarders, or Kansas police making random stops of people with Colorado plates hoping to find a pretext to search cars for weed, and on and on. 

The police do more good than harm, IMO. But I still think we need to call out the things they do wrong, and the ones who act inappropriately or illegally need to be disciplined or removed instead of protected.

Others have touched on this for me but... the percentage of unarmed killings, let alone unjustified ones, to police encounters is astronomically low, statistically approaching zero.  The fact that you can "say their names" means there are so few. 

That Phoenix shoot sickens me, especially coming from my hometown, but there are bad people in every profession.  Heck, 350 teachers a year molest the innocent children they are entrusted with, not random alleged criminals in a bad situation. 

You can argue that there are probably more than get reported/adjudicated, but out of tens of millions of encounters, frankly I'm amazed there aren't way more.