Lawsuit says police stood by for 13 minutes as her 30-year-old son drowned in the Tennessee River

[jonnyutah 248]

I would save the dog. 

[thegeneral 2,910]

This part of the article is where the body cam will be interesting in terms of the lawsuit:

One person, an employee of a nearby establishment, allegedly “pleaded” with one officer to use a tow strap to rescue Clabo, according to the lawsuit, but the officer said that it wasn’t safe because he might drown the employee as well. The employee persisted, according to the lawsuit, telling officers that he could get keys to a gate underneath the establishment “where flotation devices or even a small boat were stored, to throw one or more to Mika or at least try to reach him.”

“No, he’s got to cooperate and that’s not going to happen,” replied an officer.”

[IGotWorms 4,057]

17 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Yeah, you're not biased. Pre judging people before a trial is the way this country should run. 

 

IF the scenario presented by CDub is how it went down

[seafoam1 2,803]

5 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

This part of the article is where the body cam will be interesting in terms of the lawsuit:

One person, an employee of a nearby establishment, allegedly “pleaded” with one officer to use a tow strap to rescue Clabo, according to the lawsuit, but the officer said that it wasn’t safe because he might drown the employee as well. The employee persisted, according to the lawsuit, telling officers that he could get keys to a gate underneath the establishment “where flotation devices or even a small boat were stored, to throw one or more to Mika or at least try to reach him.”

“No, he’s got to cooperate and that’s not going to happen,” replied an officer.”

Yeah. He has to cooperate. Why would you want to endanger some else's life if a criminal only wants to pull you down with him?

[thegeneral 2,910]

3 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Yeah. He has to cooperate. Why would you want to endanger some else's life if a criminal only wants to pull you down with him?

If it went like this - bystander tells cop he has access to life jackets…cop says nah…we need him to cooperate. I’m guessing that will be a problem.

[jerryskids 6,567]

 

14 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

This part of the article is where the body cam will be interesting in terms of the lawsuit:

One person, an employee of a nearby establishment, allegedly “pleaded” with one officer to use a tow strap to rescue Clabo, according to the lawsuit, but the officer said that it wasn’t safe because he might drown the employee as well. The employee persisted, according to the lawsuit, telling officers that he could get keys to a gate underneath the establishment “where flotation devices or even a small boat were stored, to throw one or more to Mika or at least try to reach him.”

“No, he’s got to cooperate and that’s not going to happen,” replied an officer.”

If that's true, then there may be a case.  A moral one if not a legal one, I dunno the law on it.

Otherwise, all of this ACAB "cops are supposed to dive in and save him" stuff is mind-numbingly stupid.

[Reality 3,098]

6 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

Otherwise, all of this ACAB "cops are supposed to dive in and save him" stuff is mind-numbingly stupid.

Yup.

[thegeneral 2,910]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

If that's true, then there may be a case.  A moral one if not a legal one, I dunno the law on it.

Otherwise, all of this ACAB "cops are supposed to dive in and save him" stuff is mind-numbingly stupid.

Yeah that is why the body cam stuff will be key to see how this all played out and the whole situation. 

Personally think it’s a bit strange there wasn’t a way to loop the tow rope they keep mentioning around something on the dock and just allow him to hang onto it or that they weren’t trying to find things to toss in the water at him. But we are all guessing on a lot from this one article. 

I have a hard time believing people would just stand around and watch a guy drown and the body cam footage should show what happened more clearly and give the cops a chance to explain their perspective. 

The guy was tweaking out so maybe he was completely oblivious.

If a person did come up and said “hey this guy is drowning”, he had access to life jackets and a cop said no thanks. Well, that would be pretty bad and I’d expect a big check to be written. 

[RogerDodger 797]

28 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

This part of the article is where the body cam will be interesting in terms of the lawsuit:

One person, an employee of a nearby establishment, allegedly “pleaded” with one officer to use a tow strap to rescue Clabo, according to the lawsuit, but the officer said that it wasn’t safe because he might drown the employee as well. The employee persisted, according to the lawsuit, telling officers that he could get keys to a gate underneath the establishment “where flotation devices or even a small boat were stored, to throw one or more to Mika or at least try to reach him.”

“No, he’s got to cooperate and that’s not going to happen,” replied an officer.”

Yeah, we read it in the article and the first time you posted it.

You want the cop to organize an A-Team to deploy McGeyver equipment to save a deranged crackhead.  In the real world you wait for the professionals when there is a crazy flopping around in the water.

[thegeneral 2,910]

Just now, RogerDodger said:

Yeah, we read it in the article and the first time you posted it.

You want the cop to organize an A-Team to deploy McGeyver equipment to save a deranged crackhead.  In the real world you wait for the professionals when there is a crazy flopping around in the water.

Apparently some didn’t since there was a number of typical stupid posts about how “liberals want the cops to jump in the water” or whatever. 

I would expect a group of normal people standing around watching a guy flailing in the water for 10 minutes to perhaps be a bit proactive in getting something for them to grab on to. Maybe for you that is “A Team” coordination, you do seem challenged by a lot often.

Some person standing there was apparently able to recognize the seriousness of the situation and offered a solution.

We’ll see what happened on the body cam hopefully. 

[RogerDodger 797]

2 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Apparently some didn’t since there was a number of typical stupid posts about how “liberals want the cops to jump in the water” or whatever. 

I would expect a group of normal people standing around watching a guy flailing in the water for 10 minutes to perhaps be a bit proactive in getting something for them to grab on to. Maybe for you that is “A Team” coordination, you do seem challenged by a lot often.

Some person standing there was apparently able to recognize the seriousness of the situation and offered a solution.

We’ll see what happened on the body cam hopefully. 

There was a dock right next to him and he wasn't responding what make you think he'd suddenly grab a rope.  He was a threat to himself and others and that's why the cops were called in the first place.  It's not the water that killed the crackhead.  You think you'd be more familiar with the question mark people being from Seattle and all.

[jerryskids 6,567]

30 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Apparently some didn’t since there was a number of typical stupid posts about how “liberals want the cops to jump in the water” or whatever. 

Well, there is this from one of our resident ACABs:

5 hours ago, dogcows said:

If it supposedly isn’t their job to save people, then they shouldn’t prevent anybody from jumping into the water if they want to. No law against jumping in the water, right?

 

5 hours ago, dogcows said:

This blind support for the police is really something. Here’s a better question - could you live with yourself if you saw somebody drowning, and didn’t even try to help them? Here’s what a real man does, and this wasn’t even a full-grown man - he was a teenager:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/06/us-teen-hero-rescue-mississippi-car-plunges-river

 

[thegeneral 2,910]

9 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

There was a dock right next to him and he wasn't responding what make you think he'd suddenly grab a rope.  He was a threat to himself and others and that's why the cops were called in the first place.  It's not the water that killed the crackhead.  You think you'd be more familiar with the question mark people being from Seattle and all.

The article mentions he had vines around his feet and neck, perhaps he was stuck and it wasn’t clear from where the officers were. Throwing a life jacket to him seems pretty obvious.

This is what the body cam videos will help show perhaps. 

I wouldn’t hold someone responsible for not jumping into the water necessarily, but standing around doing nothing but watching is very odd, to the point I don’t believe that the article is a giving a fully accurate description.

That aside, I am pretty surprised people wouldn’t have problem if a cop turned away a sensible offer from a person with a response of something to the effect “he needs to comply”.

[seafoam1 2,803]

2 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

The article mentions he had vines around his feet and neck, perhaps he was stuck and it wasn’t clear from where the officers were. Throwing a life jacket to him seems pretty obvious.

This is what the body cam videos will help show perhaps. 

I wouldn’t hold someone responsible for not jumping into the water necessarily, but standing around doing nothing but watching is very odd, to the point I don’t believe that the article is a giving a fully accurate description.

That aside, I am pretty surprised people wouldn’t have problem if a cop turned away a sensible offer from a person with a response of something to the effect “he needs to comply”.

Yeah. cnn opinion article...

This country is better without him.

[RogerDodger 797]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

The article mentions he had vines around his feet and neck, perhaps he was stuck and it wasn’t clear from where the officers were. Throwing a life jacket to him seems pretty obvious.

This is what the body cam videos will help show perhaps. 

I wouldn’t hold someone responsible for not jumping into the water necessarily, but standing around doing nothing but watching is very odd, to the point I don’t believe that the article is a giving a fully accurate description.

That aside, I am pretty surprised people wouldn’t have problem if a cop turned away a sensible offer from a person with a response of something to the effect “he needs to comply”.

The article mentions they guy was rolling around in the streets in his under ware.

No we're not going to let civilians get involved, the trained rescue team is on it's way. 

[thegeneral 2,910]

Just now, RogerDodger said:

The article mentions they guy was rolling around in the streets in his under ware.

No we're not going to let civilians get involved, the trained rescue team is on its way. 

Grabbing some life jackets is too dangerous? 

[thegeneral 2,910]

3 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Yeah. cnn opinion article...

If the videos show cops standing around, a person comes up to them says that dude is drowning he has access to life jackets, cops say no thanks we’re good. You don’t have an issue with that?

[seafoam1 2,803]

1 minute ago, RogerDodger said:

The article mentions they guy was rolling around in the streets in his under ware.

No we're not going to let civilians get involved, the trained rescue team is on it's way. 

I would jump in the water to try to save even generalpimpledooshe's liberal dumbass, but not this guy. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

2 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

If the videos show cops standing around, a person comes up to them says that dude is drowning he has access to life jackets, cops say no thanks we’re good. You don’t have an issue with that?

Why are we talking "IF" scenarios?

But let's play that game then. 

If John Wayne Gacy were still alive and he was struggling in the water, would you risk your life to save him?

[thegeneral 2,910]

4 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Why are we talking "IF" scenarios?

But let's play that game then. 

If John Wayne Gacy were still alive and he was struggling in the water, would you risk your life to save him?

We are going through the details that are provided in the article. It is alleged that what I described occurred. That isn’t an appropriate response in my view from a cop. What do you think?

 

[seafoam1 2,803]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

We are going through the details that are provided in the article. It is alleged that what I described occurred. That isn’t an appropriate response in my view from a cop. What do you think?

 

The article is slanted. And it's obvious.

[thegeneral 2,910]

7 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

The article is slanted. And it's obvious.

The article is stating what the lawsuit alleges (that is why these are “ifs”). 

If the camera shows what the lawsuit alleges to be accurate - a cop telling a bystander nah we are good he’s not complying - would you have an issue with that response?

[TimHauck 2,619]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

Otherwise, all of this ACAB "cops are supposed to dive in and save him" stuff is mind-numbingly stupid.

No one said this.  C’mon jerry, be better.

[nobody 2,564]

42 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

If the videos show cops standing around, a person comes up to them says that dude is drowning he has access to life jackets, cops say no thanks we’re good. You don’t have an issue with that?

The other problem to me though is if the bystanders are asking the cops if they can do something, once they give permission, they are liable for the person's actions.

Maybe the cops should've said, "I can't legally stop you from attempting a rescue."

[seafoam1 2,803]

Clabo is described in the suit as having been a “master arborist” with a love for nature, who became addicted to opioids as a teenager. The 30-year-old participated in a court-sponsored rehabilitation program and eventually moved to a halfway house in Knoxville, the lawsuit states.

[nobody 2,564]

At the end of the day, though, I'd say blame pie should be something like 96% to the guy jumping into the water and 4% to the cop who wasn't trained in rescuing drug addicts from rivers not at least trying to take advantage of potentially life saving floatation devices.

I don't see how it's some beat cop's job to coordinate a water rescue with civilians and civilian equipment though.  Does being bad at crisis management in a situation he wasn't trained for make him negligent?'

[thegeneral 2,910]

8 minutes ago, nobody said:

The other problem to me though is if the bystanders are asking the cops if they can do something, once they give permission, they are liable for the person's actions.

Maybe the cops should've said, "I can't legally stop you from attempting a rescue."

These are the types of things that the body cam will give context to IMO.

Telling people don’t get in the water, while looking shitty, can be explained by the situation as prudent especially if cops are actively yelling at the guy, things are chaotic, etc.

A bystander saying I can go get some life jackets and a cop saying no he’s got to comply to our orders with a bunch of other cops standing on the dock looking at the guy would be harder to explain. 

[jerryskids 6,567]

23 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

No one said this.  C’mon jerry, be better.

I recognize that as a centrist you feel compelled to defend other centrists, but I quoted @dogcowsliterally linking an article about a teenager who went into the water to save people as an example of what he felt the cop should have done.  So, one of us needs to be better, at reading at least.  Meanwhile, keep on your centrist ways.   

[RogerDodger 797]

15 minutes ago, nobody said:

At the end of the day, though, I'd say blame pie should be something like 96% to the guy jumping into the water and 4% to the cop who wasn't trained in rescuing drug addicts from rivers not at least trying to take advantage of potentially life saving floatation devices.

I don't see how it's some beat cop's job to coordinate a water rescue with civilians and civilian equipment though.  Does being bad at crisis management in a situation he wasn't trained for make him negligent?'

Only a retard, and a grieving mom, would hold on to your 4%.  This case is an easy throw away.    

[TimHauck 2,619]

7 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I recognize that as a centrist you feel compelled to defend other centrists, but I quoted @dogcowsliterally linking an article about a teenager who went into the water to save people as an example of what he felt the cop should have done.  So, one of us needs to be better, at reading at least.  Meanwhile, keep on your centrist ways.   

He said “that’s what a real man does,” he didn’t say the police “should have” done that.  
 

Edit: and like most of the other responses, he seemed most concerned with the prevention of other people trying to save the guy.  But go ahead and focus on one random link.

[RogerDodger 797]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

He said “that’s what a real man does,” he didn’t say the police “should have” done that.  

HFS

[TimHauck 2,619]

Also I’m pretty sure the point of the article was more to point out that a typical human response when they see someone drowning is to generally try to save them, and not necessarily focused on the act of physically jumping in the water.

[jerryskids 6,567]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

He said “that’s what a real man does,” he didn’t say the police “should have” done that.  
 

Edit: and like most of the other responses, he seemed most concerned with the prevention of other people trying to save the guy.  But go ahead and focus on one random link.

This may be the dumbest post you've ever made.  So much dumb, I don't know where to start.  I've accepted your L, as you seem incapable of recognizing it. 

 

[TimHauck 2,619]

Just now, jerryskids said:

This may be the dumbest post you've ever made.  So much dumb, I don't know where to start.  I've accepted your L, as you seem incapable of recognizing it. 

 

So one guy posting a link means “all of this about the cops are supposed to jump in and save him,” got it

[jerryskids 6,567]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

So one guy posting a link means “all of this about the cops are supposed to jump in and save him,” got it

So you went from defending dogcows' indefensible comment to "it's only just that one"?   

Look, you missed that link, you tried to make a centrist point defending your centrist buddy, you failed.  Or you are a Lefty hack that will yip yip dog this to the end.   

[RogerDodger 797]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

So one guy posting a link means “all of this about the cops are supposed to jump in and save him,” got it

IQ Test Question.  Read slow, think it through, you got this. 

Article says, "Cop stood around 13 minutes, did nothing". 

Poster DC says, "A real man would have jumped in to save him". 

Who is Poster DC referring to?  

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

At the end of the day, though, I'd say blame pie should be something like 96% to the guy jumping into the water and 4% to the cop who wasn't trained in rescuing drug addicts from rivers not at least trying to take advantage of potentially life saving floatation devices.

I don't see how it's some beat cop's job to coordinate a water rescue with civilians and civilian equipment though.  Does being bad at crisis management in a situation he wasn't trained for make him negligent?'

Bad at it? Probably makes him not the best cop around but no, I wouldn’t say liable.

But if he’s just standing there enjoying it while the guy drowns, yeah that’s something different. Lawsuit seems to suggest that but those are just allegations, and like everyone has said, you gotta see the video to have a decent idea 

[kilroy69 1,216]

The problem is that if you are not trained for water rescues you can not be out there just winging it. If not you are going to die trying to rescue them as they pull you under. Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes. 

[RogerDodger 797]

10 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

The problem is that if you are not trained for water rescues you can not be out there just winging it. If not you are going to die trying to rescue them as they pull you under. Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes. 

Sensible people understand this.  This thread is a poster child for liberals supporting anything for the cause, in this case anti- cop. The usual suspects showed up and delivered.  

PS. A bit more entertaining than throwing apples at bears imo.  

[TimHauck 2,619]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

So you went from defending dogcows' indefensible comment to "it's only just that one"?   

Look, you missed that link, you tried to make a centrist point defending your centrist buddy, you failed.  Or you are a Lefty hack that will yip yip dog this to the end.   

Does @dogcows claim to be a centrist?  I honestly don’t know.  The only other people I notice claiming to be centrists are @Hawkeye21 (he is) and @RaiderHaters Revenge (he isn’t).

I’ll let dogcows answer if he thinks the cops should have jumped in, but as I alluded to in my follow up, based on his other posts, his concern seemed to be more with saying the cops should have helped in general (and at least not prevented other people from helping), not necessarily saying the cops should have jumped in.

8 hours ago, dogcows said:

I bet all those cops who refused to lend a helping hand (and even prevented others from helping) claim to be Christians.

 

8 hours ago, dogcows said:

If it supposedly isn’t their job to save people, then they shouldn’t prevent anybody from jumping into the water if they want to. No law against jumping in the water, right?