Lawsuit says police stood by for 13 minutes as her 30-year-old son drowned in the Tennessee River

[Strike 5,185]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

The story in the OP wasn’t an “active criminal investigation” either.  They were asking a guy in his underwear what he was doing.

I'm not going to get in to a semantics game with you, so I'll simply ask again, " Do you REALLY not see the distinction between the two situations? " 

[RogerDodger 797]

4 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

The story in the OP wasn’t an “active criminal investigation” either.  They were asking a guy in his underwear what he was doing.

HFS

[TimHauck 2,601]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

I'm not going to get in to a semantics game with you, so I'll simply ask again, " Do you REALLY not see the distinction between the two situations? " 

There is no difference in the danger of the situation.   Both could have resulted in harm to the civilian.   In fact, one could argue trying to pull someone from a crashed car is more dangerous than trying to toss a tow strap to someone in a river.  The car accident victim was charged with DUI so it's likely that both victims were under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time

[listen2me 23 1,825]

Once again lefties and centrists give the benefit of doubt to criminals and druggies and none to cops.   This thread is just another example.  

Why do libs jump through hoops for these people? Bizarre.   

[TimHauck 2,601]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

Once again lefties and centrists gove the benefit of foubt to criminals and druggies and none to cops.   This thread is just another example.  

Why do libs jump through hoops for these people? Bizarre.   

The general consensus among the normal people here seems to be we understand the cops not jumping in, but don't understand not allowing others to.

[Strike 5,185]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

There is no difference in the danger of the situation.   Both could have resulted in harm to the civilian.   In fact, one could argue trying to pull someone from a crashed car is more dangerous than trying to toss a tow strap to someone in a river.  The car accident victim was charged with DUI so it's likely that both victims were under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time

Yes there is, and that's not even debatable.  One is an unconscious woman and the other is a guy running away, not listening to orders, and probably high on who knows what.  The difference in danger is not even debatable.  You sound like the Iraqi Information Minister with this statement. 

[TimHauck 2,601]

Just now, Strike said:

Yes there is, and that's not even debatable.  One is an unconscious woman and the other is a guy running away, not listening to orders, and probably high on who knows what.  The difference in danger is not even debatable.  You sound like the Iraqi Information Minister with this statement. 

How dangerous is it to throw a tow strap?    A crashed car could have broken glass, leaking oil, etc.

[Strike 5,185]

4 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

How dangerous is it to throw a tow strap?    A crashed car could have broken glass, leaking oil, etc.

I'm not going to second guess every little decision a cop makes, unlike some of you.  The pertinent questions are whether cops have a policy of acquiring and maintaining control of a situation, and whether they then allow civilians to alter that dynamic.  Again, if you have a problem with those policies quit being an armchair cop and get out there and help change things. 

[TimHauck 2,601]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

I'm not going to second guess every little decision a cop makes, unlike some of you.  The pertinent questions are whether cops have a policy of acquiring and maintaining control of a situation, and whether they then allow civilians to alter that dynamic.  Again, if you have a problem with those policies quit being an armchair cop and get out there and help change things. 

They dude died.  They weren't "in control of the situation."  FFS.

[Gladiators 1,963]

I'd say it's generally not dangerous to throw a strap, unless you hit someone in the eye with it or it wraps around their neck or another body part.  Is that what is being proposed here?  Someone just throw a strap?  Or would the thrower also need to hang onto an end?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,236]

28 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Once again lefties and centrists give the benefit of doubt to criminals and druggies and none to cops.   This thread is just another example.  

Why do libs jump through hoops for these people? Bizarre.   

I’m a centrist who still haven’t even read the story but was called in by timhack. I never defend criminals 

[Strike 5,185]

9 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

They dude died.  They weren't "in control of the situation."  FFS.

Whether someone dies or not doesn't indicate whether they had control of the situation.  This is why you're such a joke here.   Just in this tangent you've said several things are not true.  Or do you really want to die on the hill of "if someone dies during an encounter with police, it means the police were not in control of the situation."  That's just an idiotic statement on it's face.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

30 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

The general consensus among the normal people here seems to be we understand the cops not jumping in, but don't understand not allowing others to.

Are you talking like literally jumping in the water? I’m not sure anyone should’ve done that. But toss him a vest or a fire hose to grab on to or any number of other possibilities that they apparently refused to do — yeah, I think it’s fair to ask whether they should’ve at least tried something with minimal risk 

[Gladiators 1,963]

Maybe they should have thrown a metal helmet

[listen2me 23 1,825]

 

Just now, IGotWorms said:

Are you talking like literally jumping in the water? I’m not sure anyone should’ve done that. But toss him a vest or a fire hose to grab on to or any number of other possibilities that they apparently refused to do — yeah, I think it’s fair to ask whether they should’ve at least tried something with minimal risk 

Where were they in relation to the man in the water? They said he ran down a steep brush filled bank.  They said there was a dock near.  Were they on the dock? Were they above on the bank?  

[IGotWorms 4,057]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

 

Where were they in relation to the man in the water? They said he ran down a steep brush filled bank.  They said there was a dock near.  Were they on the dock? Were they above on the bank?  

All good questions and the reason why the body cam footage will be key

[TimHauck 2,601]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

Whether someone dies or not doesn't indicate whether they had control of the situation.  This is why you're such a joke here.   Just in this tangent you've said several things are not true.  Or do you really want to die on the hill of "if someone dies during an encounter with police, it means the police were not in control of the situation."  That's just an idiotic statement on it's face.

So your argument is the police in the story from the OP were "in control of the situation"?  Is that what you're going with?

[TimHauck 2,601]

17 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

I'd say it's generally not dangerous to throw a strap, unless you hit someone in the eye with it or it wraps around their neck or another body part.  Is that what is being proposed here?  Someone just throw a strap?  Or would the thrower also need to hang onto an end?

Yes presumably someone would have had to hold onto the other end, unless they tied it to a tree or something.

 

7 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Are you talking like literally jumping in the water? I’m not sure anyone should’ve done that. But toss him a vest or a fire hose to grab on to or any number of other possibilities that they apparently refused to do — yeah, I think it’s fair to ask whether they should’ve at least tried something with minimal risk 

Yeah the more surprising part of the story (if true) would be not even allowing other people to toss him something, but yes, if someone really wanted to jump in I'm not convinced the police should have legally been allowed to stop them.

[Strike 5,185]

8 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

So your argument is the police in the story from the OP were "in control of the situation"?  Is that what you're going with?

As much as they could be without putting themselves or other innocent people at risk.  And that's all we can expect from them.

[TimHauck 2,601]

The police are denying that they "prevented reasonable or safe attempts to rescue," so yeah, that part will be the most telling from the bodycam footage, assuming there is audio of the conversations with the civilian(s)

[Baker Boy 1,687]

18 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

Yeah, you're not biased. Pre judging people before a trial is the way this country should run. 

 

 

Nancy Pelosi

 

@SpeakerPelosi

 

The Grand Jury has acted upon the facts and the law. No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence. Hopefully, the former President will peacefully respect the system, which grants him that right

 

it’s a liberal thing, do you like to rewrite the constitution.

[Mike Hunt 261]

23 hours ago, nobody said:

I don't see what the big deal is here.  Isn't it standard procedure not to risk additional lives to save one?

That's actually what always bothered me about that move Vertical Limit. 

4 people ended up dying to save 1 person, and they acted like it was a happy ending.

Police are not trained as lifeguard swimmers.  They might be weak swimmers themselves.  

Trying to rescue a person who is panicking in water is not east for a trained lifeguard, let alone a police officer.

[jerryskids 6,557]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

 

Where were they in relation to the man in the water? They said he ran down a steep brush filled bank.  They said there was a dock near.  Were they on the dock? Were they above on the bank?  

If he was at the bottom of a steep bank, that could potentially put a civilian at risk of being pulled down into danger if they were holding the other end of a rope/tether.

[Engorgeous George 2,124]

4 hours ago, Strike said:

If Tim Hauck was a cop and assigned to this incident, with the dude drowning in the water, he'd be like "I'll jump in and save you but only if you show me your Covid vaccination card first." 

Where does the officer leave his gun and cuffs when he goes in?  He would not want to be dragged down by them.  If he locks them in his car with whom, or where, does he leave the keys?  He could take them with him, unless it were a key fob which would be ruined by the water. 

What of the cops bodycam.  Does he disengage that as too heavy to go in the water?  If he disengages the bodycam has he violatyed his department's protocols?

 

What does the cop do with his radio while in the water.  how does he communicate with the recue vessel and its personnel?

[TimHauck 2,601]

6 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

 

What does the cop do with his radio while in the water.  how does he communicate with the recue vessel and its personnel?

I hear you can use old PlayStation controllers from Amazon for that, but they don’t always work

[nobody 2,557]

If a civilian walked up and said, "hey, I have this rope here.  Want me to throw it to him?" And the officer said no, that was probably a poor choice.  

More likely scenario is some weekend warrior wanted to cape up and was like, "let me go to my store that's 4 minutes away round trip and try to find something that we can use as a flotation device, and the cop already knew it would be over by then.

 

[TimHauck 2,601]

The CNN article includes a photo which presumably is near the scene - 

 

 

 

[seafoam1 2,799]

Why is it expected that cops have to save a drug addict from his own stupidity? And if the dude was suspected he could be on something, what idiot would be stupid enough to jump in the water and try to save him? So 2 people die instead of 1? 

How does that help? The mother is broke and wants some money. She won't miss her criminal 30 year old kid.