New York judge finds Donald Trump liable for fraud

[seafoam1 3,035]

Oh boy...utterly shocking...

[seafoam1 3,035]

4 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

But Trump really cares about them and the average Joe.  

So you think Trump ran for president out of ego alone?

[Dizkneelande 1,101]

Mar-a-Lago worth

Commie Leftists - 18M
Forbes - 350M+

[Casual Observer 597]

7 hours ago, MDC said:

This guy handing out homework assignments.

The answer should have been at the tip of your ghey fingertips. Aren't you the guy that told me to google PA voter registration/votes because it had supposedly been debunked?  Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Casual Observer 597]

8 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

Right. And the judge cited the value of Mar-a-largo at the county assessor's property rate of 18M when the clubs revenue alone exceeds that value every year.  You dont even need a calculator to see how stupid that is.  But the sheeple keep eating it up.  

I could go on and on with this.  What about the banks that extended the loans?  Didn't they do their due diligence, including, but not limited to, performing appraisals of these properties that were securing their loans (of course they did)?  Was the Court protecting the Banks from this fraud, which the banks themselves determined didn't exist?  How focked up.

[Casual Observer 597]

7 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Point out in that post where I referred to Trump.

As for labeling him a fascist, I've repeatedly listed the indicators of that and that his approach is frighteningly similar to Hitler's. 

Pipe down, cat piss.  Your posts are getting dumber by the day.

[Tree of Knowledge 1,864]

Lawfare 101.  Just makes Trump stronger and the revenge tour in 2025 more vicious.  
 

What’s next, Trump had tags removed from mattresses at one of his hotels?

[Tree of Knowledge 1,864]

If Trump is Cartman, then we all have to agree Biden is Herbert from Family Guy.  

[Mike Honcho 5,283]

8 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

So what are the repercussions of this ruling? They have to pay a fine or something?

 

Quote

 

As part of his ruling, the judge canceled the business certificates of all of the defendants, which include the Trump Organization itself and numerous LLCs connected to the company, as well as the business certificates of any entity “controlled or beneficially owned by” Trump, his adult sons, the Trump Organization’s former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg and company executive Jeffrey McConney.

Engoron ordered that within 10 days of the ruling, Trump and the other defendants must provide names of potential independent receivers “to manage the dissolution of the canceled LLCs.”

The judge canceled the business certifications of the Trump entities that are defendants in the case, including the Trump Organization, and said a receiver will be put in place to “manage the dissolution” of the corporate entities. There are two New York properties that are part of the lawsuit, the commercial tower at 40 Wall Street and the Trump family compound at Seven Springs.

 

 

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/d03602f4-94ae-4246-bcfe-cadf962461ea

[IGotWorms 4,058]

2 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

 

 

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/d03602f4-94ae-4246-bcfe-cadf962461ea

Thanks!

Have to say, this sounds like the kind of thing that might be ripe for reversal on appeal, at least as a summary judgment

[Casual Observer 597]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me who exactly Trump and/or his kids defrauded in all of this. 

[Casual Observer 597]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

Thanks!

Have to say, this sounds like the kind of thing that might be ripe for reversal on appeal, at least as a summary judgment

Why, Little Buddy?  Explain your reasoning.  If there were documentary evidence to support these claims, why should the matter go to trial?

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

25 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me who exactly Trump and/or his kids defrauded in all of this. 

Why would Trump overvalue his properties by tens of millions of dollars?

[The Real timschochet 6,779]

I can’t believe I’m going to write this because anybody who reads me here knows how much I can’t stand Donald Trump and how opposed I am to his possible re-election…

But…

I’ve been involved in conmercial real estate my entire life, over 35 years of working in this industry. Not at Trump’s level certainly but I’ve worked at times with a few people that are, including a billionaire. What Trump is accused of doing here is not in the least unusual. In fact it’s almost standard practice. Overvaluing property to get a bigger loan  is fairly routine; it’s the responsibility of the lender to appraise the property correctly. Undervaluing property to pay less taxes is also routine and if the state disagrees then you are required to pay penalties; that’s all. 
 

Commercial real estate at the highest level is a shady game. Nobody truly knows how much properties are worth and the value goes up and down on an almost daily basis. I don’t view what Trump did here as some major crime. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,450]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Why would Trump overvalue his properties by tens of millions of dollars?

You think his massive, profit turning estate in S Florida is only worth 18 million? 

[KSB2424 3,148]

14 hours ago, Casual Observer said:

So, if I have this right, Trump is supposed to have inflated the value of assets to obtain loans which are now paid off?  Is NYS or local governments refunding the inflated ad valorem taxes paid on real properties with these inflated values? 

Do banks / lenders not do credit checks and third party evaluations on property loans? 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

You think his massive, profit turning estate in S Florida is only worth 18 million? 

I don't know.  I do know that a professional assessor valued it far less than what Trump valued it at for some reason.

[Casual Observer 597]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Why would Trump overvalue his properties by tens of millions of dollars?

That's what I'm wondering, especially when you have to pay taxes on those properties based on their values.  Inflated values to use as security to obtain loans?  Is anyone going to seriously tell me that major banks making multi-million dollar loans didn't do their own due diligence and obtain their own appraisals before making those loans (which I undertsand have been paid)?  Very curious indeed.  Again, who exactly was defrauded?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,450]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

I don't know.  I do know that a professional assessor valued it far less than what Trump valued it at for some reason.

So you don’t know. I’ll let you in on it: It’s worth a lot more than that. 

[Casual Observer 597]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I can’t believe I’m going to write this because anybody who reads me here knows how much I can’t stand Donald Trump and how opposed I am to his possible re-election…

But…

I’ve been involved in conmercial real estate my entire life, over 35 years of working in this industry. Not at Trump’s level certainly but I’ve worked at times with a few people that are, including a billionaire. What Trump is accused of doing here is not in the least unusual. In fact it’s almost standard practice. Overvaluing property to get a bigger loan  is fairly routine; it’s the responsibility of the lender to appraise the property correctly. Undervaluing property to pay less taxes is also routine and if the state disagrees then you are required to pay penalties; that’s all. 
 

Commercial real estate at the highest level is a shady game. Nobody truly knows how much properties are worth and the value goes up and down on an almost daily basis. I don’t view what Trump did here as some major crime. 

See, even this shiothead agrees.

[The Real timschochet 6,779]

Just now, KSB2424 said:

Do banks / lenders not do credit checks and third party evaluations on property loans? 

Yes. And if they don’t they’re really stupid (as well as irresponsible to their shareholders). 
 

Consider your own home for a moment. You call a lender and tell him you want to refinance. You tell him your house is worth 1.5 million. Do you think he just takes your word for it? Of course not. He hires an independent appraiser and offers you a loan based on that. Why would anyone think commercial property is any different? 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Casual Observer said:

That's what I'm wondering, especially when you have to pay taxes on those properties based on their values.  Inflated values to use as security to obtain loans?  Is anyone going to seriously tell me that major banks making multi-million dollar loans didn't do their own due diligence and obtain their own appraisals before making those loans (which I undertsand have been paid)?  Very curious indeed.  Again, who exactly was defrauded?

He defrauded the lenders.  Whether he paid off the loans or not is a moot point.

[Casual Observer 597]

2 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Do banks / lenders not do credit checks and third party evaluations on property loans? 

Of course they do.  My question in that regard is a rhetorical one.  Sophisticated lenders making huge loans absolutely do their due diligence on loans like this.

[Casual Observer 597]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

He defrauded the lenders.  Whether he paid off the loans or not is a moot point.

No its not.  He didn't defraud anyone.  Especially if the loans are paid.  Are you telling me that Trump went to Bank of America and told them that he has a property worth $1,000,000,000.00 and the Bank says "OK, we'll loan you $___________________" and they just take his word for it and make the loan without doing their own investigation?  Go back to the farm, hayseed shitlib.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So you don’t know. I’ll let you in on it: It’s worth a lot more than that. 

I'm sure it's worth much more than $18 million.  I don't know where the judge came up with number.

If Trump actually said this as a disclaimer then I think he basically admitted that it was overvalued.

In a rambling deposition, Trump repeatedly claimed that his submissions to banks and insurance companies came with a disclaimer: essentially, that no one should take his valuations too seriously. That so-called “worthless disclaimer,” Trump claimed, absolved him of liability. He also said that people had offered him enormous sums of money for certain properties, apparently in an effort to prove that paper valuations by accountants and real estate analysts don’t mean very much. Engoron was not persuaded—at all.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Casual Observer said:

No its not.  He didn't defraud anyone.  Especially if the loans are paid.  Are you telling me that Trump went to Bank of America and told them that he has a property worth $1,000,000,000.00 and the Bank says "OK, we'll loan you $___________________" and they just take his word for it and make the loan without doing their own investigation?  Go back to the farm, hayseed shitlib.

It's sad how defensive you guys get when it comes to Trump.  It's like it's personal to you.  Creepy.

[Casual Observer 597]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

It's sad how defensive you guys get when it comes to Trump.  It's like it's personal to you.  Creepy.

It's sad how an undercover shitlib like you can't just admit to being a shitlib, especially when you're arguing for liability against Trump on a case that makes no sense.  Then you get pushback and claim people are being defensive like its personal.  Fock off, don't comment about it, then.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Casual Observer said:

It's sad how an undercover shitlib like you can't just admit to being a shitlib, especially when you're arguing for liability against Trump on a case that makes no sense.  Then you get pushback and claim people are being defensive like its personal.  Fock off, don't comment about it, then.

It's a focking forum for discussion.  Stop being such a poosay.  You don't see me attacking anyone.  I'm just talking about the topic.

I'd like to see you prove how I'm an undercover shitlib.  Disliking Trump is not a viable reason.  It's about the only thing I ever disagree with the most of you on here.

[MDC 7,442]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's sad how defensive you guys get when it comes to Trump.  It's like it's personal to you.  Creepy.

They call him Daddy. 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, MDC said:

They call him Daddy. 

Pretty obvious that they do it jokingly to get a rise out of those who dislike him.  I ignore it.

[Casual Observer 597]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's a focking forum for discussion.  Stop being such a poosay.  You don't see me attacking anyone.  I'm just talking about the topic.

I'd like to see you prove how I'm an undercover shitlib.  Disliking Trump is not a viable reason.  It's about the only thing I ever disagree with the most of you on here.

Then don't act like a priss and tell people they're being defensive when they are dismantling your stupid comments on said focking forum for discussion.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, Casual Observer said:

Then don't act like a priss and tell people they're being defensive when they are dismantling your stupid comments on said focking forum for discussion.

You didn't dismantle anything.  I posted what I read about Trump defrauding lenders.  It's not like I made it up, that's literally what they are accusing him of.  Once again, you get all defensive and pissy.  Relax, it's just a message board.

[Casual Observer 597]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

You didn't dismantle anything.  I posted what I read about Trump defrauding lenders.  It's not like I made it up, that's literally what they are accusing him of.  Once again, you get all defensive and pissy.  Relax, it's just a message board.

I dismantled your stupid comment, because it was a stupid comment.  You got defensive because your stupid comment got dismantled, while explaining that this a forum for discussion. You can't really handle discussion.  Maybe next time you should just shut up.

[MDC 7,442]

I like when he tells people what to do.  

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Casual Observer said:

I dismantled your stupid comment, because it was a stupid comment.  You got defensive because your stupid comment got dismantled, while explaining that this a forum for discussion. You can't really handle discussion.  Maybe next time you should just shut up.

You may want to consider joining Costanza in a rage-aholics meeting.

[Casual Observer 597]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

You may want to consider joining Costanza in a rage-aholics meeting.

This is rage to you?  You're more of a thin-skinned h0m0 than I thought.

[Strike 5,555]

2 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

Thanks!

Have to say, this sounds like the kind of thing that might be ripe for reversal on appeal, at least as a summary judgment

Ya think?  This might be the first lawyerly thing you've ever posted on this bored.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Casual Observer said:

This is rage to you?  You're more of a thin-skinned h0m0 than I thought.

It's a joke.  Nothing but personal attacks from you.

[squistion 2,203]

36 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You think his massive, profit turning estate in S Florida is only worth 18 million? 

Yes. From 2011-2021, the Palm Beach County Assessor appraised the market value of Mar-a-Lago at between $18 million and $27.6 million because of various land use restrictions. The judge simply restated the appraisal value.

[RLLD 4,232]

5 minutes ago, Strike said:

Ya think?  This might be the first lawyerly thing you've ever posted on this bored.

I might add that none of this has anything really to do with "law".  This judge, and others, already know that anything they can get him on would be reversed on appeal (some might have to go to SCOTUS). But it is not about that.   This is all about impeding him from participating as a canidate in the election if possible, but also to mar him to the fullest possible extent to sway the election.

This is all about beaurocracy and the intent of government agencies and their players to interfere in an election.