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The Bidenomics Thread : Please Post Your Examples

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Mortgage demand shrinks as interest rates hit the highest level in nearly 23 years

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Today’s potential buyers are facing an unprecedented dynamic of a historically low supply of homes for sale, coupled with both rising interest rates and rising prices. Higher interest rates historically throw cold water on home prices, but the supply and demand imbalance is so severe that it is pushing prices higher even though more and more buyers are unable to afford a home.

 

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Americans' feelings about the economy are getting worse

 

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The big picture: Our national mood took a hit in 2020 and though there have been swings back up, the mood hasn't yet come back to where it was pre-pandemic.

  • Inflation is playing a big role here. Though the rate of price increases has certainly come down from the highs we saw last year, prices are still higher overall — and they aren't going back down.
  • As Catherine Rampell at the Washington Post recently wrote, "People sometimes ask me when prices are going to 'come back down' to what they were pre-pandemic ... the short answer is: probably never."

 

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The elusive Fed 'soft landing' nears. Why are Americans so mad about the economy?

 

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In the 12 months through August, the CPI accelerated 3.7%, a sharp drop from its peak of 9.1% in June of 2022.

But that's not what voters care about. Even as the pace of price hikes recedes, the sticker shock from previous increases remains. Just because inflation falls, in other words, it doesn't mean prices fall back to where they were - only that they are growing less quickly.

 

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Consumers Are Growing More Pessimistic About the Economy

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“Consumer confidence fell again in September 2023, marking two consecutive months of decline,” said Dana Peterson, chief economist at the business organization. “September’s disappointing headline number reflected another decline in the expectations index, as the present situation index was little changed.

“Write-in responses showed that consumers continued to be preoccupied with rising prices in general, and for groceries and gasoline in particular,” Peterson added. “Consumers also expressed concerns about the political situation and higher interest rates. The decline in consumer confidence was evident across all age groups, and notably among consumers with household incomes of $50,000 or more.”

 

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A friend of mine is the finance manager for a large car dealership. He said people are taking out new car loans for 75 months at 12 pct interest. Yeah, this ends well. 60k cars with 2k down and a co-signer. 

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5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

A friend of mine is the finance manager for a large car dealership. He said people are taking out new car loans for 75 months at 12 pct interest. Yeah, this ends well. 60k cars with 2k down and a co-signer. 

Good time to get into the repo business.

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4 minutes ago, patweisers44 said:

Good time to get into the repo business.

Sure is. I see more ads for repo jobs on LE message boards. 

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The house next to mine sold for a couple hundred thousand more than I think it's worth, but that should help the value of my home (if I was considering moving). Otherwise, all my monthly necessities are all up. Food, gas, clothes, taxes...

My cars are still relatively new, so that market luckily  hasn't directly impacted me. Yet. 

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36 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

The house next to mine sold for a couple hundred thousand more than I think it's worth, but that should help the value of my home (if I was considering moving). Otherwise, all my monthly necessities are all up. Food, gas, clothes, taxes...

My cars are still relatively new, so that market luckily  hasn't directly impacted me. Yet. 

Seems like a good deal eh?  Maybe.....but maybe its not....

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2 hours ago, RLLD said:

the sad thing is, I locked into a 2.5% interest rate under a fascist dictator and my girl was just looking at options to buy right now, and I was like yah at 4-5% your payment is gonna be around 4800 a month, little did I know the interest rate was at 8+++ WTF

the house we were looking at the mortgage will be around 7100 

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Money Market accounts are 5%+, CDs 6%+.  It's a glass half full for those with zero debt and flush with cash.

I hope they shut down the government too so we can move cash into securities on the cheap.

:overhead: Let's go Bidenomics, fok the poor people!  

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2 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Money Market accounts are 5%+, CDs 6%+.  It's a glass half full for those with zero debt and flush with cash.

I hope they shut down the government too so we can move cash into securities on the cheap.

:overhead: Let's go Bidenomics, fok the poor people!  

The entire thing in a nutshell.......

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2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

The entire thing in a nutshell.......

Sniiiiiiiff, I love the smell of growing inequality in the morning.  

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1 minute ago, Horseman said:

Sniiiiiiiff, I love the smell of growing inequality in the morning.  

How odd that a party so insistent they are for the poor and historically disenfranchised might employ policies that lead to such outcomes🤔

I mean, its not as if there is a long history of this kind of behavior.....😬

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4 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Sniiiiiiiff, I love the smell of growing inequality in the morning.  

I love it. Every bit of it. Give them what they are asking for. 

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3 hours ago, RLLD said:

So where in Biden's economic plan does he say he wants the mortgage market to shrink?

I know you're not this dumb, so stop pretending.  Mortgage demand shrinks due to high rates, high rates due to inflation, decided by the fed.  You want to blame Biden for inflation, then blame Trump as well.  $3.5T  in 1 year.

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Seriously though, it's so true.  I see it on a micro level every time I go to the grocery store.  Items that most people consider extra, or luxury are not being bought anymore.  As a result they are hitting their expiration dates and taking up too much shelf space.  The stores are forced to put the higher end items on sale while the prices for bread and hamburger helper rise.

Thanks Bidenomics!  :overhead:

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1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

So where in Biden's economic plan does he say he wants the mortgage market to shrink?

I know you're not this dumb, so stop pretending.  Mortgage demand shrinks due to high rates, high rates due to inflation, decided by the fed.  You want to blame Biden for inflation, then blame Trump as well.  $3.5T  in 1 year.

TRUMP!!! :cry:

:lol:

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5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

So where in Biden's economic plan does he say he wants the mortgage market to shrink?

I know you're not this dumb, so stop pretending.  Mortgage demand shrinks due to high rates, high rates due to inflation, decided by the fed.  You want to blame Biden for inflation, then blame Trump as well.  $3.5T  in 1 year.

The Fed is fighting a battle against bad policy.  And normally I am no fan of the Fed....but in this instance, their ability to fight off the galactically stupid Biden policy mistakes is impressive. Its not over yet, but give them credit....they were handed a sh!t sandwhich and have done a decent job.

If you think spending is the only driver then you really need to read more. 

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3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

So where in Biden's economic plan does he say he wants the mortgage market to shrink?

I know you're not this dumb, so stop pretending.  Mortgage demand shrinks due to high rates, high rates due to inflation, decided by the fed.  You want to blame Biden for inflation, then blame Trump as well.  $3.5T  in 1 year.

How many times do we have to point out that the Cares Act was almost unanimously bipartisan and the American Rescue Plan was the exact opposite?  Biden was warned this was going to happen.  :doh:  You're like a parrot that keeps saying "walk the dog" even though the dog died years ago and the owner replaced it with a cat.  

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

TRUMP!!! :cry:

:lol:

💯  Unbelievable.  

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14 minutes ago, RLLD said:

The Fed is fighting a battle against bad policy.  And normally I am no fan of the Fed....but in this instance, their ability to fight off the galactically stupid Biden policy mistakes is impressive. Its not over yet, but give them credit....they were handed a sh!t sandwhich and have done a decent job.

If you think spending is the only driver then you really need to read more. 

Stop thinking and reading. Just know everything is Trump's fault. 

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16 minutes ago, RLLD said:

The Fed is fighting a battle against bad policy.  And normally I am no fan of the Fed....but in this instance, their ability to fight off the galactically stupid Biden policy mistakes is impressive. Its not over yet, but give them credit....they were handed a sh!t sandwhich and have done a decent job.

If you think spending is the only driver then you really need to read more. 

What Biden policy mistakes led to record global inflation?

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16 minutes ago, Horseman said:

How many times do we have to point out that the Cares Act was almost unanimously bipartisan and the American Rescue Plan was the exact opposite?  Biden was warned this was going to happen.  :doh:  You're like a parrot that keeps saying "walk the dog" even though the dog died years ago and the owner replaced it with a cat.  

💯  Unbelievable.  

And how many times do I have to tell you, it's not political.  No one cares if it was bipartisan, it was a giant mistake.  If Republicans and Democrats both agree to raise the tax rate to 100%, then you're OK with that?  Focking hack.

The wheels of inflation were in motion even before Trump took office for focks sake.

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2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

What Biden policy mistakes led to record global inflation?

1) Attacking energy, but only domestic energy, which has a large footprint.

2) Infusing money into the system when inflation was still fomenting, like throwing gas on a fire....

3) Ignoring inflation, pretending it was not real or it was transitory; this not facing it down when it was more easily controlled and also encouraging businesses to ignore it

4) Refusing to amend his policies when it was clear they were fomenting economic problems

Sources:
Rink       Rink
Rink       Rink
Rink       Rink

 

Now to be clear, and to oversimplify, the Fed is in the business of fighting job growth; more jobs foments inflation as well, though the impact varies.....   so we should at least avoid ding things that might contribute.   Biden should have restrained when he saw how his actions were feeding inflation but refused. He refused to ensure he sustained political support, he did this at the expense of the poor and disadvantaged. He made some mistakes, plain and simple, what is mostly unforgivable is his steadfast refusal to admit them and adjust his approach.  

 

 

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11 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

And how many times do I have to tell you, it's not political.  No one cares if it was bipartisan, it was a giant mistake.  If Republicans and Democrats both agree to raise the tax rate to 100%, then you're OK with that?  Focking hack.

The wheels of inflation were in motion even before Trump took office for focks sake.

This is so simple I think you might even be able to grasp, let's see.  You took issue with blaming Biden and not Trump. So:

If you want to lay blame for the first covid relief package you have to blame everyone, bipartisan.  Although that would be pretty funny when the effeminates like you were all in on the omg we are all going to die covid plandemic.

The blame for the second relief plan throwing gasoline on the fire is 100% Biden and the Dems.

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12 minutes ago, RLLD said:

1) Attacking energy, but only domestic energy, which has a large footprint.

2) Infusing money into the system when inflation was still fomenting, like throwing gas on a fire....

3) Ignoring inflation, pretending it was not real or it was transitory; this not facing it down when it was more easily controlled and also encouraging businesses to ignore it

4) Refusing to amend his policies when it was clear they were fomenting economic problems

Sources:
Rink       Rink
Rink       Rink
Rink       Rink

 

Now to be clear, and to oversimplify, the Fed is in the business of fighting job growth; more jobs foments inflation as well, though the impact varies.....   so we should at least avoid ding things that might contribute.   Biden should have restrained when he saw how his actions were feeding inflation but refused. He refused to ensure he sustained political support, he did this at the expense of the poor and disadvantaged. He made some mistakes, plain and simple, what is mostly unforgivable is his steadfast refusal to admit them and adjust his approach.  

 

 

I would agree with you the spending was bad and dumb, same way the previous covid spending was bad and dumb.

Regarding "attacking energy", we've already discussed much of this like the land leases, and how they were meaningless.  Bottom line is we're producing more oil now than ever before.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS1&f=M

3 and 4 aren't policy, they're not Biden ignoring inflation and then not doing anything about it.

So we agree that Biden didn't cause inflation, but he didn't help it either and likely made it worse.  We're on the same page.  So it's foolish to blame the mortgage market on Biden.

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Just now, GutterBoy said:

I would agree with you the spending was bad and dumb, same way the previous covid spending was bad and dumb.

Regarding "attacking energy", we've already discussed much of this like the land leases, and how they were meaningless.  Bottom line is we're producing more oil now than ever before.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS1&f=M

3 and 4 aren't policy, they're not Biden ignoring inflation and then not doing anything about it.

So we agree that Biden didn't cause inflation, but he didn't help it either and likely made it worse.  We're on the same page.  So it's foolish to blame the mortgage market on Biden.

Just curious, do you see a source for the morgage concern?

Also, do you think the energy sector is driven mostly by current production or a mix of elements, that also include futures? Also, do you have an idea as to how long it takes for supply to manifest once exporation and tapping have concluded?

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10 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

This is so simple I think you might even be able to grasp, let's see.  You took issue with blaming Biden and not Trump. So:

If you want to lay blame for the first covid relief package you have to blame everyone, bipartisan.  Although that would be pretty funny when the effeminates like you were all in on the omg we are all going to die covid plandemic.

The blame for the second relief plan throwing gasoline on the fire is 100% Biden and the Dems.

Again, stop being a political hack.  I'm blaming inflation on the insane covid spending.  I'm fine with blaming Trump, Dems, Republicans, Biden, everyone, I don't give a sh1t.  I'm just trying to be honest about inflation, and it's retarded to say it's "Bidenomics"

Also I never supported giving free money during covid.  So much corruption it's mind boggling.  Found out this week a neighbor of mine stole $150k in PPP "loans" for their "business".  Such a scam.

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1 minute ago, RLLD said:

Just curious, do you see a source for the morgage concern?

Also, do you think the energy sector is driven mostly by current production or a mix of elements, that also include futures? Also, do you have an idea as to how long it takes for supply to manifest once exporation and tapping have concluded?

Mortgage concern?  I was just referring to your first post where you blame mortgage rates on Biden.

When it comes to oil production, I'm not gonna claim to be an expert, but I would agree it takes years between exploration and production.

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8 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Mortgage concern?  I was just referring to your first post where you blame mortgage rates on Biden.

When it comes to oil production, I'm not gonna claim to be an expert, but I would agree it takes years between exploration and production.

Yes I did, it was his policies that have led us here, and it could have been avoided. So, there is that.

Going back to oil production, price is then driven by supply and demand, but also futures (speculation etc), right?

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2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Yes I did, it was his policies that have led us here, and it could have been avoided. So, there is that.

Going back to oil production, price is then driven by supply and demand, but also futures (speculation etc), right?

We just agreed that it wasn't his policies that led us here, they made it worse.

Make your point about oil without being a douche, if you can.

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1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

We just agreed that it wasn't his policies that led us here, they made it worse.

Make your point about oil without being a douche, if you can.

Oh I see what you mean, no he pointedly fomented it, and then also did not react to his mistake to reverse.

I am trying to find common ground, that is what we agree on first, and then see where we diverge.  So with oil understanding how you see it and then considering how I see it helps frame the conversation.  Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

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18 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Oh I see what you mean, no he pointedly fomented it, and then also did not react to his mistake to reverse.

I am trying to find common ground, that is what we agree on first, and then see where we diverge.  So with oil understanding how you see it and then considering how I see it helps frame the conversation.  Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

He's completely lost right about now.  I'll point to his previous post to provide your answer.

40 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Bottom line is we're producing more oil now than ever before.

Bottom line, in his mind that's some sort of proof Biden isn't to be blamed.  Target production, demand increases and projections, futures and speculation are all concepts above him.  

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8 minutes ago, Horseman said:

He's completely lost right about now.  I'll point to his previous post to provide your answer.

Bottom line, in his mind that's some sort of proof Biden isn't to be blamed.  Target production, demand increases and projections, futures and speculation are all concepts above him.  

I am not sure that is true, but perhaps we just see those influences differently, which would explain the disconnect. I prefer to focus in on those differences. On a few occasions Gutter has illuminated something I did not know. I find it more fun to learn than to call others stupid or denigrate the things they beleive of course, so talking to him can be something of an effort; but one that can pay off. 

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1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

What Biden policy mistakes led to record global inflation?

Energy policy/war on fossil fuel

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