The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 Just now, Strike said: It's not obvious? Seriously? Secure our border. How? Be specific. And what about all the undocumented already here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 2 minutes ago, Fireballer said: How about controlling sheer quantity of people entering? One of the arguments that I have made in the past is that there is no way to do this without seriously inhibiting trade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted January 26, 2024 5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: How? Be specific. And what about all the undocumented already here? The specifics are irrelevant for this discussion. As if you'd be in favor of ANY efforts to secure the border. As far as the ones that are already here, in my analogy that step 2 after you fix the pipe. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted January 26, 2024 3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: One of the arguments that I have made in the past is that there is no way to do this without seriously inhibiting trade. And this is the dumbest argument ever made on this subject. We have dedicated points of entry for trade. Those already have security measures in place. Securing the non official entry points to this country does NOTHING to inhibit trade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 With regards to “Remain in Mexico” there are two problems with reinstating it: the first is that there were legal challenges working their way through the courts prior to Biden reversing it. We don’t know how these would have turned out, but many legal experts believe that it would take a law by Congress to make this stick, rather than executive order. And Trump wouldn’t have the votes for it. The second, more serious problem is that Mexico has stated they will not accept any reinstatement of this program. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,458 Posted January 26, 2024 Just now, The Real timschochet said: With regards to “Remain in Mexico” there are two problems with reinstating it: the first is that there were legal challenges working their way through the courts prior to Biden reversing it. No there wasn't. It already made it's way through the legal system in 2019. That's why you saw the only spike in illegal counters during Trump's presidency during that summer. You just make chit up as you go. Completely worthless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted January 26, 2024 Just now, Horseman said: No there wasn't. It already made it's way through the legal system in 2019. That's why you saw the only spike in illegal counters during Trump's presidency during that summer. You just make chit up as you go. Completely worthless. Tim should be easily able to prove what he says with links, as I did to prove illegals are being given court dates 10 years out. Let's see if he avails himself of that opportunity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,439 Posted January 26, 2024 20 minutes ago, Horseman said: Blow harder blowhard. Don't understand why you guys waste your time, he's human filth. I don’t have Tim on ignore. But I mostly skip past. It’s a fiction. And he won’t answer simple questions that he can’t defend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 1 minute ago, Strike said: And this is the dumbest argument ever made on this subject. We have dedicated points of entry for trade. Those already have security measures in place. Securing the non official entry points to this country does NOTHING to inhibit trade. It’s not a dumb argument at all. Many if not most of these folks coming here across our border do so in legal points of entry- they are hidden in trucks and other vehicles. Texas proposed having every vehicle that comes through searched thoroughly, but this created such long delays that even a few days cost hundreds of millions of dollars so they had to end it. Yes there are others swimming across the rivers and coming through wide open areas. You might be able to tighten up some of that by building more walls-maybe- but you’ll never fully secure it and you’re not really solving the problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 1 minute ago, Strike said: Tim should be easily able to prove what he says with links, as I did to prove illegals are being given court dates 10 years out. Let's see if he avails himself of that opportunity. What specifically do you want me to prove? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted January 26, 2024 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: It’s not a dumb argument at all. Many if not most of these folks coming here across our border do so in legal points of entry- they are hidden in trucks and other vehicles. Texas proposed having every vehicle that comes through searched thoroughly, but this created such long delays that even a few days cost hundreds of millions of dollars so they had to end it. Yes there are others swimming across the rivers and coming through wide open areas. You might be able to tighten up some of that by building more walls-maybe- but you’ll never fully secure it and you’re not really solving the problem. Links to the stats of how many are coming in vehicles from legal points of entry versus the rest of the border? If what you're saying is true you should have no issue with us securing the border since the legal points of entry are already secure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted January 26, 2024 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: What specifically do you want me to prove? Ugh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 5 minutes ago, Horseman said: No there wasn't. It already made it's way through the legal system in 2019. That's why you saw the only spike in illegal counters during Trump's presidency during that summer. You just make chit up as you go. Completely worthless. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remain_in_Mexico No. You’re wrong; the 9th circuit overturned it in 2020 and then the SC ruled it should stay in place while the litigation continued. Then Biden ended it making the whole question moot. So it hadn’t made its way through the legal system. Oops did I “own”’you? Not that I care. But I don’t understand something: you criticized others for responding to me since I’m nothing but “human filth”. Why are you responding to me? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted January 26, 2024 4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remain_in_Mexico No. You’re wrong; the 9th circuit overturned it in 2020 and then the SC ruled it should stay in place while the litigation continued. Then Biden ended it making the whole question moot. So it hadn’t made its way through the legal system. Oops did I “own”’you? Not that I care. But I don’t understand something: you criticized others for responding to me since I’m nothing but “human filth”. Why are you responding to me? So it was in the legal system. Let that play out. It likely would have survived. You know it would have made it to the SCOTUS and given the makeup the odds are in Trump's favor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 5 minutes ago, Strike said: Links to the stats of how many are coming in vehicles from legal points of entry versus the rest of the border? If what you're saying is true you should have no issue with us securing the border since the legal points of entry are already secure. The data I have is from 2019; it’s in the same NPR/Pew research link I posted yesterday. To be fair it may no longer be accurate. I have no problem with securing the border if the legal points of entry are untouched. I may have a problem with specific details, depending. I’m also quite skeptical that it will ever achieve the results you’re apparently expecting. But I don’t have a problem doing it. And if it solves the current problem, great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNewGirl 1,494 Posted January 26, 2024 3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remain_in_Mexico No. You’re wrong; the 9th circuit overturned it in 2020 and then the SC ruled it should stay in place while the litigation continued. Then Biden ended it making the whole question moot. So it hadn’t made its way through the legal system. Oops did I “own”’you? Not that I care. But I don’t understand something: you criticized others for responding to me since I’m nothing but “human filth”. Why are you responding to me? Sooo....Biden EO'ing it isn't making it through the legal system? OR does it only count if it moves through the courts? He took it upon himself to END it. Biden. No one else, and SC said it should remain. He went above our highest court to make this happen. You make NO sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted January 26, 2024 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: The data I have is from 2019; it’s in the same NPR/Pew research link I posted yesterday. To be fair it may no longer be accurate. I have no problem with securing the border if the legal points of entry are untouched. I may have a problem with specific details, depending. I’m also quite skeptical that it will ever achieve the results you’re apparently expecting. But I don’t have a problem doing it. And if it solves the current problem, great. What link? I looked through this thread and don't see it. Is it in another thread? If so, specifying the thread might be helpful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 1 minute ago, TheNewGirl said: Sooo....Biden EO'ing it isn't making it through the legal system? OR does it only count if it moves through the courts? He took it upon himself to END it. Biden. No one else, and SC said it should remain. He went above our highest court to make this happen. You make NO sense. Biden reversing it was challenged too but he finally won that. Look I’ve been opposed to Remain in Mexico in the past. I’m not necessarily opposed to it now under certain conditions. Off the top of my head: 1. There has to be humane camps for these people where they are treated well while they are waiting to be adjudicated. 2. The process of court hearings has to be greatly speeded up. 3. Mexico has to agree. All of this means compromise between Democrats and Republicans of the sort that some are trying to have now. But I don’t believe Trump wants any compromise. And unfortunately he’s the power behind the Republicans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,458 Posted January 26, 2024 13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remain_in_Mexico No. You’re wrong; the 9th circuit overturned it in 2020 and then the SC ruled it should stay in place while the litigation continued. Then Biden ended it making the whole question moot. So it hadn’t made its way through the legal system. Oops did I “own”’you? Not that I care. But I don’t understand something: you criticized others for responding to me since I’m nothing but “human filth”. Why are you responding to me? The SCOTUS ruled that a EO should stay in place until the EO in question makes it to their level. 2+2=4? The writing was on the wall dumbasss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 3 minutes ago, Strike said: What link? I looked through this thread and don't see it. Is it in another thread? If so, specifying the thread might be helpful. Here’s one: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us Here’s another but it’s from 2006: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2006/05/22/modes-of-entry-for-the-unauthorized-migrant-population/ On the specific question of how many undocumented come hidden on trucks through legal points of entry vs coming across rivers and open areas, I’m having trouble finding specifics. I have read before that many if not most come hidden in trucks but I can’t find that data. In any event so long as we’re not slowing down legal trade through legal points of entry I have no problem with securing the border. Now a lot of folks on your side use language like “close the border” or “shut down the border”. If that means closing down legal entry points then obviously I’m opposed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 3 minutes ago, Horseman said: The SCOTUS ruled that a EO should stay in place until the EO in question makes it to their level. 2+2=4? The writing was on the wall dumbasss. No. And for you to write this indicates you really don’t understand the SC or our legal system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,458 Posted January 26, 2024 But hey Tim, at least you're getting all the attention you crave from all the things you lack in life 1 - Make as absurd claims as possible so people respond. 2 - Back it up with a ton of absurd opinions so they keep responding. 3 - Everyone look at me! Not even Rusty is your troll level of desperation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,546 Posted January 26, 2024 42 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: One of the arguments that I have made in the past is that there is no way to do this without seriously inhibiting trade. Why's that? Seems to not be an issue with Canada. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireballer 2,642 Posted January 26, 2024 28 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Many if not most of these folks coming here across our border do so in legal points of entry- they are hidden in trucks and other vehicles. Hold on. All I’m hearing from the Dems is about legit asylees leaving wretched conditions caused by climate change. But you’re saying most are actually concealed and not using the asylum process? Something isn’t mathing here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 I’m gonna have to take off here for some time. I appreciate the discussion, minus the personal insults. I want to try and fix this problem. I do have more sympathy for undocumented immigrants than most people here, but I acknowledge the situation is untenable. I also acknowledge that neither Biden nor the Democrats have done a good job addressing this. The politicians on both sides, including Biden and Trump, seem more interested in using this issue to win votes in November than they are in actually coming up with workable solutions. But that’s nothing new. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted January 26, 2024 5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Here’s one: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us Here’s another but it’s from 2006: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2006/05/22/modes-of-entry-for-the-unauthorized-migrant-population/ On the specific question of how many undocumented come hidden on trucks through legal points of entry vs coming across rivers and open areas, I’m having trouble finding specifics. I have read before that many if not most come hidden in trucks but I can’t find that data. In any event so long as we’re not slowing down legal trade through legal points of entry I have no problem with securing the border. Now a lot of folks on your side use language like “close the border” or “shut down the border”. If that means closing down legal entry points then obviously I’m opposed. I looked at your first link. I don't see anything in it that says most illegals come through legal points of entry in trucks. Please post the relevant excerpt from that article. What I do see is the article supporting the idea that walls work, so thanks for that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,553 Posted January 26, 2024 7 minutes ago, Horseman said: But hey Tim, at least you're getting all the attention you crave from all the things you lack in life 1 - Make as absurd claims as possible so people respond. 2 - Back it up with a ton of absurd opinions so they keep responding. 3 - Everyone look at me! Not even Rusty is your troll level of desperation. Add #4. Say he has a link that supports his assertions but the link doesn't even mention what he asserted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 1 minute ago, Fireballer said: Hold on. All I’m hearing from the Dems is about legit asylees leaving wretched conditions caused by climate change. But you’re saying most are actually concealed and not using the asylum process? Something isn’t mathing here. There are folks coming here seeking asylum, and there are folks coming here sneaking across the border. And there are folks coming here legally and overstaying their visas. And there are folks coming here pretending to seek asylum but just using that as an excuse. These are all different categories and should be addressed as such. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 3 minutes ago, Strike said: I looked at your first link. I don't see anything in it that says most illegals come through legal points of entry in trucks. Please post the relevant excerpt from that article. What I do see is the article supporting the idea that walls work, so thanks for that! Read my post again. I said I couldn’t find that, but it’s not really important since I agreed with you about securing the border. Again, you seem more interested in scoring points than you do in actually discussing solutions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stryker Ryker 188 Posted January 26, 2024 16 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said: Clownzo wants immigration to remain a problem he can hammer Biden about. What a doosh. This is who he is. MAGAturds can make all the excuses they want, but this is who he is. He's willing to kill something good for our country for his own political gain. Unbelievable. Normally I don’t even comment in these threads cause it’s just the two sides in here talking Sh1t about each other & not getting anything done. But I HAD to comment on this RETARDED and HYPOCRITICAL take the AUDACITY to now all of a sudden care about the border, saying walls work, and getting upset over the flood of illegal immigrants is insane. Last 7 years you didn’t care about it and even called Trump a racist for wanting to secure the border. NOW, Biden asks for billions of dollars so he can “fix” it & you support that You can’t even write hypocrisy this bad Not only that, you’re doubling down on it being Trump’s fault & how HE is the one that’s gonna mess it up YOU are a retarded ass moron just like anyone else that’s still supporting this asinine idiocy. By GOD you deserved to have ur ass kicked in front of ur family (whom we all know u don’t have). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,799 Posted January 26, 2024 56 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Biden reversing it was challenged too but he finally won that. Look I’ve been opposed to Remain in Mexico in the past. I’m not necessarily opposed to it now under certain conditions. Off the top of my head: 1. There has to be humane camps for these people where they are treated well while they are waiting to be adjudicated. 2. The process of court hearings has to be greatly speeded up. 3. Mexico has to agree. All of this means compromise between Democrats and Republicans of the sort that some are trying to have now. But I don’t believe Trump wants any compromise. And unfortunately he’s the power behind the Republicans. To what, exactly, does Mexico need to agree? This is a great example of proper incentives. They let all of these people into their country because they said they are going to the US -- Mexico smiled and pointed out the quickest road to the US border. Mexico let them into Mexico; that doesn't mean we need to let them into the US. What's Mexico going to do about it? I'll tell you what... they'll start cracking down on people crossing THEIR border. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted January 26, 2024 1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said: You make a lot of assumptions about my motivations without having read what I’ve written about this subject. And you’re wrong. She does this A LOT and underscores the MAGAturd mindset of generating or latching onto fabricated information. She recently accused me of using the term "MAGAtard," never mind I've been saying MAGAturd for years. Earlier in the thread, there was fabricated information regarding my position on sanctuary cities. I've been to San Francisco several times, and it's a craphole and an example of how deeply blue cities don't work. As is Portland. Yet information about my sanctuary-city viewpoint gets fabricated as a means to pivot away from this thread topic, that being Clowzo trying to derail a bipartisan immigration bill because it damages his ability to use it as a campaign issue. It just shows you how uncompromising MAGAturds and their beloved wanna-be dictator can be. Sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 6 minutes ago, jerryskids said: To what, exactly, does Mexico need to agree? This is a great example of proper incentives. They let all of these people into their country because they said they are going to the US -- Mexico smiled and pointed out the quickest road to the US border. Mexico let them into Mexico; that doesn't mean we need to let them into the US. What's Mexico going to do about it? I'll tell you what... they'll start cracking down on people crossing THEIR border. And I‘m not sure I want them “cracking down”. I don’t trust the Mexican police to be humane or respect human rights, do you? I want to deal with this situation and I’m willing to make concessions toward the conservative viewpoint of security first. But I’m not willing to go along with inhumane treatment whether by us or Mexico. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,769 Posted January 26, 2024 2 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said: She does this A LOT and underscores the MAGAturd mindset of generating or latching onto fabricated information. She recently accused me of using the term "MAGAtard," never mind I've been saying MAGAturd for years. Earlier in the thread, there was fabricated information regarding my position on sanctuary cities. I've been to San Francisco several times, and it's a craphole and an example of how deeply blue cities don't work. As is Portland. Yet information about my sanctuary-city viewpoint gets fabricated as a means to pivot away from this thread topic, that being Clowzo trying to derail a bipartisan immigration bill because it damages his ability to use it as a campaign issue. It just shows you how uncompromising MAGAturds and their beloved wanna-be dictator can be. Sad. @TheNewGirl makes thoughtful posts from time to time and I think she’s well-meaning. I’m also not sure she’s a full MAGA person though she’s certainly conservative. Unfortunately she has consistently misunderstood my motives but perhaps that’s my own fault for not expressing myself clearly: To be honest with you I don’t see much of a difference between “Megatard” and “Megaturd”, lol. I also disagree with you about San Fran but that’s a different issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,439 Posted January 26, 2024 Tim is ok with the taxpayer subsidizing the cheap labor that corporate America will benefit from. How is that a good deal for the rest of us? It’s not like they are coming here and are going to get high paying jobs. They wouldn’t be welcomed if they were. They will get a substantive wage and the rest of us will feed and house them. Yay oligarchs! Yay hedge funds! Yay employers that pay off the books! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,439 Posted January 26, 2024 Even the plantation owners had to feed and house their slaves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tree of Knowledge 1,859 Posted January 26, 2024 6 hours ago, Voltaire said: That's been Rusty's nickname for President Trump for many years. He doesn’t realize it’s not a Thing and makes him look like a dope? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted January 26, 2024 3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: @TheNewGirl makes thoughtful posts from time to time and I think she’s well-meaning. I’m also not sure she’s a full MAGA person though she’s certainly conservative. Unfortunately she has consistently misunderstood my motives but perhaps that’s my own fault for not expressing myself clearly: To be honest with you I don’t see much of a difference between “Megatard” and “Megaturd”, lol. I also disagree with you about San Fran but that’s a different issue. MAGAtard is actually in the Urban Dictionary, but I stopped using the term years when someone suggested that MAGAturd would be more appropriate. I like it better. I agree that TNG isn't as full-blown MAGAturd as myriad others around here, but she definitely shares plenty of their viewpoints. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,799 Posted January 26, 2024 7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: And I‘m not sure I want them “cracking down”. I don’t trust the Mexican police to be humane or respect human rights, do you? I want to deal with this situation and I’m willing to make concessions toward the conservative viewpoint of security first. But I’m not willing to go along with inhumane treatment whether by us or Mexico. I think you are starting to understand incentives; let's play this scenario out. If Mexico doesn't treat these people well, fewer of them will attempt it. We'll begin the process of identifying the people who are fleeing for their lives, instead of the people who just want a one-way trip to the US because their home country sucks (as it has for generations, in most cases). What do we call those people fleeing for their lives... wait for it... asylum seekers! Actual asylum seekers. Many of whom should be happy for asylum in Mexico, because it's better than being dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,439 Posted January 26, 2024 Tapes surfacing of Biden talking about illegal immigrants way back in 2008. Sounds just like someone else. Even brings up criminals, terrorists and drugs coming in. The call is coming from inside the house. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites