Cultural existential threat: Marxism and Moral Relativism

[jerryskids 5,393]

2 hours ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Hey Jerry, still think that opinions are data points to help you draw your moron conclusion that the reason Biden is getting irritated with Israel is because of the college protests?

Opinions are data now right Mr. Feelz?

LMFAO

Struck a nerve, did i?

I said data, you said facts.

I said no, data.  Now you say "data points" and even quote it.

Are you special needs? You can't reason, you can barely write, you have no social skills, and now you think you've got 10 layers of bean counters beneath you?  Are there windmills outside your executive office suite just waiting to be conquered? 

They say a person rises to his level of incompetence; if so, I expect you to be CFO of the earth someday.

 

[BeachGuy23 585]

6 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Struck a nerve, did i?

I said data, you said facts.

I said no, data.  Now you say "data points" and even quote it.

Are you special needs? You can't reason, you can barely write, you have no social skills, and now you think you've got 10 layers of bean counters beneath you?  Are there windmills outside your executive office suite just waiting to be conquered? 

They say a person rises to his level of incompetence; if so, I expect you to be CFO of the earth someday.

 

You literally called opnions data points moron.

Stop deflecting and take your curb stomping like a man.

And to help you Mr. Slimy Salesman, opinions are NOT data points.

Tell us again how you just know that Biden started getting tougher on Israel due to the protesters.  Something other than opinions perhaps.

I'd have fired you weak as$ long ago boyo. 

[jerryskids 5,393]

57 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

You literally called opnions data points moron.

Stop deflecting and take your curb stomping like a man.

And to help you Mr. Slimy Salesman, opinions are NOT data points.

Tell us again how you just know that Biden started getting tougher on Israel due to the protesters.  Something other than opinions perhaps.

I'd have fired you weak as$ long ago boyo. 

You could never fire me, I worked in high tech, where intelligence and pluralization are valued, and finance is a cog.

And we get it, you are a corporate finance guy who doesn't like links supporting assertions.  You are obviously in the feelz division of finance.

Tell us more about the 10 organizational layers below you; how are they structured?   

[Bier Meister 1,531]

18 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Models that work better... where?

Germany, Austria, switzerland, france, italy, nordic countries.  i do not know enough about the UK, but can only relay my mother's experience in Scotland when she broke her hip before covid. She would have been fully covered for the surgery and rehab had she decided to stay there for treatment. They elected to transport her back home here for comfort. I have other friends who have received excellent, affordable health care in these countries.

I understand that the US would have different challenges due to population, but health care is an avenue i would like to see more fully covered in the states.

16 hours ago, TheNewGirl said:

You realize that when the govt/taxes takes over healthcare then they are the ones who decide what/when you get treatment for things, right?  

They decide to approve you for things like x-rays, dialysis and chemo.  They truly decide if someone is actually worth the treatments available, someone is worth saving. 

Are you willing to know that "allocating funding" means letting someone's mother die? 

There are always going to be entities who manage our health care. Currently, insurance companies, big pharm,  and the FDA (and many lobbyists) steer the ship regarding availability/accessibility of treatment, medication, and cost.

 

 

[jerryskids 5,393]

3 hours ago, BeachGuy23 said:

2nd step from the top of the finance chain boyo.  Being sick a couple of years ago derailed any plans to rise to the top.

Unlike you who stayed on the bottom step, I rose like 10 steps to one removed from the top.

Me >>>>>>>>>>> You.

Just quoting this for posterity.   

[BeachGuy23 585]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Just quoting this for posterity.   

I guess being a salesman you're unaware of the different levels of hierarchy in an organization?  Shall I spell them out for you Mr. Slimy Salesman?

You're clearly a glutton for punishment. 

[Maximum Overkill 782]

4 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Just quoting this for posterity.   

He's full of shizz. He lives in North Jersey, 2 minutes from one of many nearby landfills. 

Don't believe his crap. 

[jerryskids 5,393]

5 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

I guess being a salesman you're unaware of the different levels of hierarchy in an organization?  Shall I spell them out for you Mr. Slimy Salesman?

You're clearly a glutton for punishment. 

I am quite aware of hierarchy; I spoke to people up and down them all the times at many companies, including several Fortune 500 companies.  I never had to go up 10 levels to get to the assistant report generator for the CFO.

Educate me on these 10 levels below you that you quickly ascended?  

How old are you BTW?  You said you were sick "a few years ago," but I thought you had cancer in your young 20s.  Could be wrong though.

I'm 56, since we are sharing.   

[TheNewGirl 1,066]

17 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

 

There are always going to be entities who manage our health care. Currently, insurance companies, big pharm,  and the FDA (and many lobbyists) steer the ship regarding availability/accessibility of treatment, medication, and cost.

 

 

Yes, but if a relative does not receive the care you think they should have, you can sue. 

You think that if the govt is in charge you are going to be able to sue them because grandma died when they decided that she didn't need that extra round of chemo? Good luck with that. 

Seriously. Read up more on the NHS in Canda and Europe and how successful people are when they go after it when someone doesn't get the care they needed. It's incredibly sad. Or, just look at the VA. That's govt health care in our own country. Illegals get better healthcare than our own veterans, I just ask my dad. He purposely used his healthcare from his state job vs the VA because he saw what it was like when he was in the service.

Anyways, I realize I am talking to deaf ears. You people truly believe in your hearts that the govt is here to "help" people. All the govt does is spend. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,195]

33 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

Germany, Austria, switzerland, france, italy, nordic countries.  i do not know enough about the UK, but can only relay my mother's experience in Scotland when she broke her hip before covid. She would have been fully covered for the surgery and rehab had she decided to stay there for treatment. They elected to transport her back home here for comfort. I have other friends who have received excellent, affordable health care in these countries.

I understand that the US would have different challenges due to population, but health care is an avenue i would like to see more fully covered in the states.

 

Yeah, their models won't work here.  The problem is the people, not the system.  Any "system" you create, won't work that's better than what we have now... and the one we have now isn't as good as the one we had before the ACA was implemented.

[BeachGuy23 585]

22 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I am quite aware of hierarchy; I spoke to people up and down them all the times at many companies, including several Fortune 500 companies.  I never had to go up 10 levels to get to the assistant report generator for the CFO.

Educate me on these 10 levels below you that you quickly ascended?  

How old are you BTW?  You said you were sick "a few years ago," but I thought you had cancer in your young 20s.  Could be wrong though.

I'm 56, since we are sharing.   

Had cancer the first time at 20.  Went to work at 23.  Here are roughly the levels of the organization I rose through:

Associate

Senior Associate

Lead Associate

Supervising Associate

Manager

Senior Manager

Director

Senior Director

VP

Oh chit that's only 9.

And I got sick again in my early 50's after having been a VP for only a couple of years.  This was the time I would have started looking for that final step.  Being sick derailed me for a year and the new circumstances with which I live make having a job like CFO and its expected outside work activities problematic

I'm 56 too. 

How long until someone like Horsegirl or HT make fun of me for something I've posted?

[Maximum Overkill 782]

10 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Being sick derailed me for a year and the new circumstances with which I live make having a job like CFO and its expected outside work activities problematic

Shouldn't you be at work right now? 

[jerryskids 5,393]

24 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Had cancer the first time at 20.  Went to work at 23.  Here are roughly the levels of the organization I rose through:

Associate

Senior Associate

Lead Associate

Supervising Associate

Manager

Senior Manager

Director

Senior Director

VP

Oh chit that's only 9.

And I got sick again in my early 50's after having been a VP for only a couple of years.  This was the time I would have started looking for that final step.  Being sick derailed me for a year and the new circumstances with which I live make having a job like CFO and its expected outside work activities problematic

I'm 56 too. 

How long until someone like Horsegirl or HT make fun of me for something I've posted?

Thanks.  Those aren't levels, they are mostly grade bumps.  But in the spirit of you actually typing something which reads like an adult typed it, with plurals and everything, I'm moving on.

 

[BeachGuy23 585]

Just now, jerryskids said:

Thanks.  Those aren't levels, they are mostly grade bumps.  But in the spirit of you actually typing something which reads like an adult typed it, with plurals and everything, I'm moving on.

 

They were promotions one needed in my world to rise from step to step.

But don't worry boyo, the moron brigade will certainly take something I just posted and LOL about me for it in the future.  It's what your people do. 

[Maximum Overkill 782]

6 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

They were promotions one needed in my world to rise from step to step.

But don't worry boyo, the moron brigade will certainly take something I just posted and LOL about me for it in the future.  It's what your people do. 

Except you're a "VP", a professional who spends all day on a fantasy football forum calling people "Ghey" and BOYO. 

First off a VP shouldn't be calling anyone Ghey and certainly shouldn't be spending all of his time on a Fantasy Football Forum. 

I'm calling shenanigans, you're full of shizz. 

[BeachGuy23 585]

19 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Except you're a "VP", a professional who spends all day on a fantasy football forum calling people "Ghey" and BOYO. 

First off a VP shouldn't be calling anyone Ghey and certainly shouldn't be spending all of his time on a Fantasy Football Forum. 

I'm calling shenanigans, you're full of shizz. 

I'm just a young dude at heart boyo.   It takes me nanoseconds to post since I don't have to find tranny pics with every post like some others. 

And what's wrong with calling people ghey and boyo?  Do I have to drink tea with my pinky up too?

Remember that I deal with people from all levels across many different types of industries so I have to be well versed in relating to people of all societal strata.  Including uneducated cultist.

I am a true man of the people.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,931]

35 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Except you're a "VP", a professional who spends all day on a fantasy football forum calling people "Ghey" and BOYO. 

First off a VP shouldn't be calling anyone Ghey and certainly shouldn't be spending all of his time on a Fantasy Football Forum. 

I'm calling shenanigans, you're full of shizz. 

. So full of shitt

[Maximum Overkill 782]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

. So full of shitt

You can't make that crap up  

[BudBro 123]

20 hours ago, Fnord said:

I know you're another conservative on a board overrun by their idiocy, but you should post more. This place needs more guys like you, Jerry and Voltaire and less Whataboutadour, Eternal Cuck and Patented Philth.

To the point above though: conservatives have been the minority in this country for an awfully long time based on the volume of votes for candidates of specific parties. In fact, most of the country is run by conservatives despite this reality. It's interesting that you're concerned by carving out rights for minority populations. And yes, I understand that you said "tiny minority." In your view, how are we approaching the slippery slope as we contemplate this issue? How are we carving out "new rights" and what are they?

This thread quickly became about people who subscribe to a particular sexual fetish.  Though they represent the needle in the haystack, one wouldn't know it by all the ruckus that's been created around them.  Your reply earlier in this thread is how new rights are being carved out, and govt is doing it through companies like yours.  In the dei world of Fink and Biden and Obama, you've got no chance in addressing the issue corporately, nor do you personally as an employee.  Just like the migrant scheme being run through the catholic charities (ngo's), so too the govt runs this scheme through corporations.  They did it the same way with covid.  They are all proxy wars, exactly the same way we are fighting Russia, but in Ukraine instead of here or there.

[TBayXXXVII 2,195]

LOL, board idiots still think "the parties switched".  Too funny.

[BeachGuy23 585]

43 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

LOL, board idiots still think "the parties switched".  Too funny.

Explain boyo why the South switched from bright blue to ruby red?

And remember that 5 southern states voted for an unabashed racist for president in the 60's.

Republicans became the party that courted racist and gave them a permanent home.

SAD

[Maximum Overkill 782]

Just now, BeachGuy23 said:

Republicans became the party that courted racist and gave them a permanent home.

Jesus Christ BOYO! Your Cultist Pedo leader is the most racist President in US History. 

WTF are you talking about, it's 2024, we're here now! 

[BeachGuy23 585]

2 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Jesus Christ BOYO! Your Cultist Pedo leader is the most racist President in US History. 

WTF are you talking about, it's 2024, we're here now! 

Most racist president in US history?

That's quite the outlandish claim there boyo.

[Maximum Overkill 782]

 

[Fnord 1,177]

1 hour ago, BudBro said:

This thread quickly became about people who subscribe to a particular sexual fetish.  Though they represent the needle in the haystack, one wouldn't know it by all the ruckus that's been created around them.  Your reply earlier in this thread is how new rights are being carved out, and govt is doing it through companies like yours.  In the dei world of Fink and Biden and Obama, you've got no chance in addressing the issue corporately, nor do you personally as an employee.  Just like the migrant scheme being run through the catholic charities (ngo's), so too the govt runs this scheme through corporations.  They did it the same way with covid.  They are all proxy wars, exactly the same way we are fighting Russia, but in Ukraine instead of here or there.

So your contention is that the government is dictating the "need" for DEI to my employer, which obediently acquiesced? 

I was not present when the powers that be decided that DEI would be a big part of our staffing model. Of course, those conversations took place in the '70s, when DEI was just three random letters smashed together and not some cultural and political touchstone. I'll just politely say I'm skeptical of your theory.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,931]

Some real ignorance here. Fnerd has never heard of ESG. Libtards love to stay ignorant. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,706]

32 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Some real ignorance here. Fnerd has never heard of ESG. Libtards love to stay ignorant. 

When you play dumb you can just pretend things that are actually happening aren't really happening.  Ignorance is bliss for them, I guess.

He's called F'nretard for a reason. 

[jerryskids 5,393]

20 hours ago, MLCKAA said:

Thanks for posting.

Judeo Christian morality was the foundation of the US for a long time and some would say it still is or that it still should be.  Judeo Christian beliefs reject moral relativism.  Most of my life, I accepted that.  I have come to believe that some things are relative and I can’t accept a calcified enforcement of JC morality across the board.

In John Jesus is quoted as saying that if he had not come and talked to Man about God, and shown them miracles, then their lives would not be sinful.  But because he came and spoke to them and showed them miracles, they have no excuse for not believing and therefore are guilty of sin.

Alas, that was 2,000 years ago.  I do not mean to be flippant when I say that you and I have only a 2k year old text for reference.  He did not talk to me or show me miracles.  I was not shown that same grace.  And this is where my problem with strict morality begins.

If God created us with this FREE WILL that my fellow Christians love to mention, then he would foresee that we (alive today) would need the same grace as what was shown to people in biblical times.  He would foresee that we would question, doubt and adapt morality.  I believe we were created and, because of that, I must believe that he foresaw the evolution of morality 2k years post-gospel and has chosen not to prevent it.

 

I made a case earlier that the Judeo Christian primary teachings remain the best model for the morality of a society, independent of belief in God or Christ.  I am amazed that, these 2000 years later, you really can't find fault with the teachings of Jesus.  Love thy neighbor.  Forgive others their trespasses.  Great stuff.

Furthermore, as you well know, Christianity went through a reformation, one that Islam never did.

I've done a little studying in recent years of Buddhism and Hindu, also not bad.  A little too much "life sucks so learn to love it" for my taste, but generally a peaceful approach.

Anyway, to your post:  while God gave you free will, and he may forgive you (i.e., show you the same grace) should you wander, a society cannot function on a person saying, for instance, "oh well, my will was to rape and kill a bunch of women." I'm not saying you are advocating this; instead, I'm saying that society can structure absolute moral expectations on a code judged by humans, which may not be the same way they are judged by God. 

[BeachGuy23 585]

24 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I made a case earlier that the Judeo Christian primary teachings remain the best model for the morality of a society, independent of belief in God or Christ.  I am amazed that, these 2000 years later, you really can't find fault with the teachings of Jesus.  Love thy neighbor.  Forgive others their trespasses.  Great stuff.

Furthermore, as you well know, Christianity went through a reformation, one that Islam never did.

I've done a little studying in recent years of Buddhism and Hindu, also not bad.  A little too much "life sucks so learn to love it" for my taste, but generally a peaceful approach.

Anyway, to your post:  while God gave you free will, and he may forgive you (i.e., show you the same grace) should you wander, a society cannot function on a person saying, for instance, "oh well, my will was to rape and kill a bunch of women." I'm not saying you are advocating this; instead, I'm saying that society can structure absolute moral expectations on a code judged by humans, which may not be the same way they are judged by God. 

As long as this is completely god free, I agree with this post.

I used to not think that we needed any kind of structure to fit this moral code, that humans would just default to this, but lately I am thinking that ain't so.

[jerryskids 5,393]

14 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

As long as this is completely god free, I agree with this post.

I used to not think that we needed any kind of structure to fit this moral code, that humans would just default to this, but lately I am thinking that ain't so.

It should absolutely be God free IMO; that is foundational to our culture.  Worship how you wish, or not.  But you cannot practice sharia law, nor can you have polygamy with minor girls like Colorado City, AZ.

Regarding your second paragraph:  I read somewhere recently, probably in research for this thread, that a society will eventually settle on a moral code, and in the absence of a religious one, it will be determined by the state (a Marxist philosophy).  I prefer the teachings of Jesus as the basis, especially given recent support by this administration.

[MLCKAA 420]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

 

Anyway, to your post:  while God gave you free will, and he may forgive you (i.e., show you the same grace) should you wander, a society cannot function on a person saying, for instance, "oh well, my will was to rape and kill a bunch of women." I'm not saying you are advocating this; instead, I'm saying that society can structure absolute moral expectations on a code judged by humans, which may not be the same way they are judged by God. 

This is a really far divergence from what I posted.

In a nutshell, I was criticizing Christians for rejecting moral relativism because it seems like the foreseeable outcome of God not gracing us with the same proof of himself that he bestowed on biblical period people.

[jerryskids 5,393]

5 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

This is a really far divergence from what I posted.

In a nutshell, I was criticizing Christians for rejecting moral relativism because it seems like the foreseeable outcome of God not gracing us with the same proof of himself that he bestowed on biblical period people.

I don't see it as a far divergence, but obviously I'm missing your point.  I was trying to differentiate society's expectations from God's expectations.  But I feel like I already said as much, so I'm just not seeing the difference.  

[Horseman 1,590]

On 5/13/2024 at 4:04 PM, jerryskids said:

As I type this, I think the real challenge to my OP premise is:  who defines the moral absolutes?  This brings in the concept of a Judeo-Christian underpinning -- even if you don't believe in the God part, the ten commandments and the teachings of Jesus are a pretty good basis for a society IMO.

7 of the 10 commandments aren't even illegal. It's a horrible basis.  

[jerryskids 5,393]

5 minutes ago, Horseman said:

7 of the 10 commandments aren't even illegal. It's a horrible basis.  

So what do you propose instead? 

[Pimpadeaux 2,321]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I don't see it as a far divergence, but obviously I'm missing your point.  I was trying to differentiate society's expectations from God's expectations.  But I feel like I already said as much, so I'm just not seeing the difference.  

Comforting to know you know God's expectations while you mock mentally retarded people. Very Christianlike! 

Cyric has passed the mantle!

[Horseman 1,590]

18 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

So what do you propose instead? 

What we have. 

The ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Athenians, Romans, Germanic tribes all did fine establishing laws for civilization without the Abrihamic religions.  You could argue they more so have influenced Western civilization rules of murder, property, theft, responsibilities and individuals rights than Christianity did. Christianity didn't invent those things.

[jerryskids 5,393]

7 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Comforting to know you know God's expectations while you mock mentally retarded people. Very Christianlike! 

Cyric has passed the mantle!

I don't know God's expectations. I do know that you are a pseud who dehumanizes not only Trump but all of his supporters 

Have a wonderful evening!

[The Real timschochet 3,190]

10 hours ago, jerryskids said:

So what do you propose instead? 

Individual rights. People should be left alone to do as they wish unless they harm others. Classic liberalism. 

[The Real timschochet 3,190]

I don’t believe in moral relativism either. Thats the main reason I defend transgender rights. 

I don’t know any transgenders in my life and in truth the ones I’ve met make me uncomfortable. But there is a principle involved here which is that they have the right to live their lives without interference or discrimination. To me that principle is a moral absolute; the exact opposite of moral relativism. 

[jerryskids 5,393]

32 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Individual rights. People should be left alone to do as they wish unless they harm others. Classic liberalism. 

Thanks.  I don't necessarily disagree, as I am fairly libertarian in my thinking.  The challenge is, for this model to work, there needs to be an underlying acceptance of what is "harm."  And a general selflessness or deference to the needs of others, which I believe we lack in our current hedonistic society (and might be part of a future installment of "cultural existential threats." )

28 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe in moral relativism either. Thats the main reason I defend transgender rights. 

I don’t know any transgenders in my life and in truth the ones I’ve met make me uncomfortable. But there is a principle involved here which is that they have the right to live their lives without interference or discrimination. To me that principle is a moral absolute; the exact opposite of moral relativism. 

For instance, to me, a biological man competing in women's sports is clearly doing harm to the other women.  As is such a person being in a woman's locker room, spa, prison, even bathroom, if one is to err on the side of consideration for others.

I've used before the example of my daughter with Type 1 diabetes.  She is free to pursue whatever she wants... with restrictions.  She can't join the military, for instance.  Becoming a pilot or commercial truck driver is extremely difficult.  This is how I view trans people.