Caitlin Clark debut

[Maximum Overkill 1,741]

And why do we give a crap about Caitlin Clark? 

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

26 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

And why do we give a crap about Caitlin Clark? 

Why not?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,243]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

11 PTS

10 REB (9 DREB)

8 AST

4 STL

1 BLK

and thats why they command 7,000$ annually

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,854]

45 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

and thats why they command 7,000$ annually

 

But is having this minor skill worth being so unattractive?  That's for their FAN to decide!

 

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

On 5/21/2024 at 4:51 PM, TBayXXXVII said:

This 

Yeah, no kidding... that's everyone who goes from college to the pros, it's no different for her.  Makes sense right?  She'll be fine.

 

On 5/21/2024 at 5:07 PM, posty said:

Yup...  There might be one or two exceptions in any league, but this is the norm...

I don’t care if she does great or flops but to be fair… when is the last time a collegiate athlete entered the pros with THIS much fanfare and hype off such an amazing collegiate career entering a pro league with such little talent? 
 

I don’t think it’s actually unreasonable to expect her to be able to hit the floor running 

[cyclone24 1,912]

1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

 

I don’t care if she does great or flops but to be fair… when is the last time a collegiate athlete entered the pros with THIS much fanfare and hype off such an amazing collegiate career entering a pro league with such little talent? 
 

I don’t think it’s actually unreasonable to expect her to be able to hit the floor running 

Not at all. I can’t even fathom the amount of money People are spending to watch a one win team to watch one player who isn’t even playing that good. People have lost their ever loving minds. 
And being here in Iowa, we get a freaking daily update on how she’s doing from every dip shiit media person.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

21 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

 

I don’t care if she does great or flops but to be fair… when is the last time a collegiate athlete entered the pros with THIS much fanfare and hype off such an amazing collegiate career entering a pro league with such little talent? 
 

I don’t think it’s actually unreasonable to expect her to be able to hit the floor running 

Well, baseball and football are different because everyone fully expects multiple years for the player to really take off.  With basketball, the vast majority of great players come out their freshman year, coming off a "solid", not multiple jaw dropping seasons. 

 

On top of that, with football, the college players have the same time off.  The basketball players have more, and so do baseball, with respect to their pro leagues.  Clark just finished her college season 6 weeks ago.

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

23 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

  Clark just finished her college season 6 weeks ago.

and I get that, I'm just not in the group that feels the transition to the WNBA is something where she needs a full offseason and training camp. If anything there should be little to no rust. 

3 point line is the same distance, ball is the same size. Are there any major rule differences? 

The obvious issues are time to gel with new teammates and the fact that she is no longer playing against any girls who won't be pros. I understand. I guess my point was that given all the hype and her perceived skill, combined with the fact that the "best of the best" in the womens game does not seem nearly as daunting as the "best of the best" in the mens game (relative to a top NBA prospect), It does seem a little bit alarming.

[Maximum Overkill 1,741]

22 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why not?

Why? Because the media tells you to? 

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

Just now, Maximum Overkill said:

Why? Because the media tells you to? 

dumb take. that's like saying why should we care about anything in sports... or really anything in general these days.

 If you love basketball and for some reason enjoy watching the women's game, then you can obviously care about her on your own. There's no denying the historic collegiate career she put together. 

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

4 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Why? Because the media tells you to? 

I watched her all through college and I enjoy watching. It’s been fun. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,854]

16 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I watched her all through college and I enjoy watching. It’s been fun. 

We finally found the WNBA's only fan. 

 

 

[cyclone24 1,912]

54 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I watched her all through college and I enjoy watching. It’s been fun. 

Here’s my point. If she didn’t have Iowa on her jersey, you wouldn’t have been watching.  
I don’t really even find her that great as you can see from when she’s playing pros now. The difference is in college she dominated the ball like nobody we have ever seen before, she had a green light that no woman player has ever had before. That matters. 
What she has is good, it’s really good. She’s going to be a nice player in that league. Is she going to be an all timer? I don’t think so.

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

4 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

 Is she going to be an all timer? I don’t think so.

The barometer can't be that high.  I've never followed the WNBA and I can rattle off Lisa Leslie, Sue Bird, Diana Tourassi, .... Cynthia Cooper....  Catchings?... Rebecca Lobo? no not her. There was another white girl on the Liberty.   A few more younger black girls who maybe still play or recently retired. 

bah. gonna look it up. 

Candace Parker and Maya Moore!

So assuming she sticks in the WNBA, which is a no brainer, I'd be willing to bet she becomes an all timer. 

The issue is more that shes struggling right now and doesn't look anything like a savior for the league.

[Maximum Overkill 1,741]

12 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

you love basketball and for some reason enjoy watching the women's game

She's been terrible, the Women players look awkward, not skilled. You only watch because she's a pasty asss white girl. You couldn't care less If she was a hood rat. Fact? 

[kilroy69 1,216]

10 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

She's been terrible, the Women players look awkward, not skilled. You only watch because she's a pasty asss white girl. You couldn't care less If she was a hood rat. Fact? 

I disagree. No one would be watching her if they did not make a HUGE deal out of her in college. Then made a big deal out of her draft. Then hyped her up before she played a single game, then gave her a shoe. The hype drove people to watch. The fact she is not living up to the hype and the media is STILL pushing her shows me that the media does not care about results.  

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

12 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

She's been terrible, the Women players look awkward, not skilled. You only watch because she's a pasty asss white girl. You couldn't care less If she was a hood rat. Fact? 

I don't watch or care about her, personally. I saw an extensive recap and highlights of her first game while watching CBS HQ. 

You said people only watch because the media tells them to.  Again, this is a dumb take 

[BeachGuy23 642]

LOL at the insecure betas in here who are threatened by women's hoops/sports.

WGAF if others like it?

I assume you don't watch women's tennis because the men would beat them too?  How about gymnastics, swimming, etc?

Nothing but low T, high estrogen hom0s feel the need to chit on women's sports because "the men are better hur dur"

Weakling bishes.

[kilroy69 1,216]

3 hours ago, BeachGuy23 said:

LOL at the insecure betas in here who are threatened by women's hoops/sports.

WGAF if others like it?

I assume you don't watch women's tennis because the men would beat them too?  How about gymnastics, swimming, etc?

Nothing but low T, high estrogen hom0s feel the need to chit on women's sports because "the men are better hur dur"

Weakling bishes.

You misunderstand what this is. She has not lived up to the hype in any way. Last nights line? 8 points. 7 asst, 5 rebounds, and 6 turnovers.   EIGHT points for someone who was hyped up as the best female college player of all time. She turned down 5 million to play in ice cubes big 3. She was going to crush it. She looks average at best and leads the league in turnovers. I bought into the hype. I watched. I want my time back.   

[nobody 2,569]

People don't like being gaslit.  The media keeps telling us that the wnba is awesome.  Some of the folks here watched apparently and saw that was a lie.  

Hell, even in this thread, one of the biggest women's basketball supporters on the board is saying wnba players can't catch passes.  

So the question isn't "why do you care that people like it?" 

The question is "why are they bothering to gaslight us about it?"

[cyclone24 1,912]

24 minutes ago, nobody said:

People don't like being gaslit.  The media keeps telling us that the wnba is awesome.  Some of the folks here watched apparently and saw that was a lie.  

Hell, even in this thread, one of the biggest women's basketball supporters on the board is saying wnba players can't catch passes.  

So the question isn't "why do you care that people like it?" 

The question is "why are they bothering to gaslight us about it?"

This. Times a million. We had these goofballs comparing her to men’s records for God sakes trying to portray her as the best basketball player that’s ever lived. 
 

Stop telling me it’s a good product when it clearly is not. Stop telling me Clarke is a player that demands the flowers shes getting not having done anything yet in this league. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,741]

7 hours ago, BeachGuy23 said:

assume you don't watch women's tennis because the men would beat them too?  How about gymnastics, swimming, etc

Stop BOYO. Those athletes are on a whole other level. 

Women's basketball is awkward, they look like kids playing. It's embarrassing, don't try to tell us it's good basketball, it's not. I'm sure the WOKE Cultists are the ones pushing this on everyone, but it's just not a good product. Simple as that. 

[posty 2,613]

Making history...

Against the Sparks, Clark  finished with 30 points, five rebounds, six assists, three steals and three blocks in the game, becoming the first rookie – and fourth player overall – in WNBA history to record a 30-5-5-3-3 stat line.

She is now also the fastest rookie in WNBA history to record 100 points and 50 assists.

She did have seven turnovers but stated: 

“The biggest thing for me is, when I get in there, I still get a little indecisive – and that’s honestly where a lot of my turnovers are still coming from,” Clark explained.

“Just a little indecision when I do get my feet in the paint, but I think I’ve done a better job of probing and finding people open or finishing at the rim. I think I’ve done a better job as well of understanding who’s guarding me.

“That will continue to get a lot better, [I’ll] continue to take care of the ball a little bit better and find people, not be a little indecisive – I’ve got to make decisions a little bit faster once I do get my feet in the paint.”

[kilroy69 1,216]

She finally hit 30. That needs to be a thing damn near every night. 

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

3 hours ago, posty said:

 becoming the first rookie – and fourth player overall – in WNBA history to record a 30-5-5-3-3 stat line.

I hate fabricated records/milestones like this no matter the sport. NFL, MLB, anything. 
“he just became the first blonde haired QB to throw for 300 yards and 4 touchdowns in a game while also rushing for more than 5 yards in the state of Florida!”

[posty 2,613]

5 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I hate fabricated records/milestones like this no matter the sport. NFL, MLB, anything. 
“he just became the first blonde haired QB to throw for 300 yards and 4 touchdowns in a game while also rushing for more than 5 yards in the state of Florida!”

Yeah, that has always bugged me as well...

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

She played great last night.  A lot of people try to use her defense as a way to bring her down but she's play really good defense this season as well.  The biggest things she needs to improve on are the turnovers and shooting efficiency.  She's already proving to be one the the greatest in the league.

For those who think the WNBA sucks, you're not wrong.  A lot of these players are trash and the officiating is atrocious.  There are still enough really good players to make it worth watching though.  The rookies have been fun to watch.

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who (honestly) thinks she is not a fantastic female basketball player. Anyone saying otherwise is trolling or completely oblivious to what she did in college... but this topic and the debate is completely justified given her start and overall play thus far. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

17 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

I hate fabricated records/milestones like this no matter the sport. NFL, MLB, anything. 
“he just became the first blonde haired QB to throw for 300 yards and 4 touchdowns in a game while also rushing for more than 5 yards in the state of Florida!”

 

17 hours ago, posty said:

Yeah, that has always bugged me as well...

Yup.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

Caitlin Clark is the fastest rookie in WNBA history to record 100+ PTS & 50+ AST.

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

5 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Caitlin Clark is the fastest rookie in WNBA history to record 100+ PTS & 50+ AST.

but what does this speak to? Clark's stardom? Or the overall ineptitude of the WNBA/prior rookies?

She's not lighting it up

STATS
Regular Season
Career

 

GP	MIN	PTS	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	FG%
8	32.1	17.3	5.4	6.3	1.4	1.1	5.5	38.1

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

12 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

but what does this speak to? Clark's stardom? Or the overall ineptitude of the WNBA/prior rookies?

She's not lighting it up

STATS
Regular Season
Career

 

GP	MIN	PTS	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	FG%
8	32.1	17.3	5.4	6.3	1.4	1.1	5.5	38.1

If you saw how they defend her you may be more impressed.  I've never seen any other player get the amount of focus at all times like she does right now, especially for a rookie.

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

If you saw how they defend her you may be more impressed.  I've never seen any other player get the amount of focus at all times like she does right now, especially for a rookie.

I’ve only seen highlights because it’s her so I can’t speak fully to how they are guarding her. 
Have you watched that much wnba throughout the years?

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

Just now, WhiteWonder said:

I’ve only seen highlights because it’s her so I can’t speak fully to how they are guarding her. 
Have you watched that much wnba throughout the years?

No.  I'm going off of the people who actually watched throughout the years and studied the tape.  I watched a guy break down a couple games and show how much pressure she gets.  He even compared it to last year's Finals game.  It's crazy how much they focus on her.

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

No.  I'm going off of the people who actually watched throughout the years and studied the tape.  I watched a guy break down a couple games and show how much pressure she gets.  He even compared it to last year's Finals game.  It's crazy how much they focus on her.

But how valid is the claim that she is more focused on as a rookie than sue bird or other top women out of college? I don’t know how the coaching is but I do know the fever were one of the worst teams so it stands to reason you would focus a lot of attention on Clark. But it also stands to reason the same happened to other top picks? Maybe?

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

But how valid is the claim that she is more focused on as a rookie than sue bird or other top women out of college? I don’t know how the coaching is but I do know the fever were one of the worst teams so it stands to reason you would focus a lot of attention on Clark. But it also stands to reason the same happened to other top picks? Maybe?

Maybe.  All I can go off of is what I've read from others and what I've actually seen.  It doesn't surprise me she has so many turnovers the way she gets defended.

[Strike 5,219]

44 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Maybe.  All I can go off of is what I've read from others and what I've actually seen.  It doesn't surprise me she has so many turnovers the way she gets defended.

On May 22nd you acknowledged that she turns the ball over way too much.  That predates the WNBA.  She may have have ticked up a bit in the pros due to how she's being defended.  i wouldn't know since I like to watch good basketball and I still skip most of the NBA so no way I'm watching the WNBA.   But even she has acknowledged her TO issues.  I don't think you're being 100% honest here when you attribute it simply to how she's being defended in the WNBA.  She needs to learn to value the ball and each possession more.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

On May 22nd you acknowledged that she turns the ball over way too much.  That predates the WNBA.  She may have have ticked up a bit in the pros due to how she's being defended.  i wouldn't know since I like to watch good basketball and I still skip most of the NBA so no way I'm watching the WNBA.   But even she has acknowledged her TO issues.  I don't think you're being 100% honest here when you attribute it simply to how she's being defended in the WNBA.  She needs to learn to value the ball and each possession more.

Most of her turnovers are due to taking risks when making passes.  I think she's averaging just over 5 TOs a game right now.

After looking at her college stats, I see that she is averaging 1 more TO per game right now.  Not as bas as I thought.  That 10 TO game really made it seem worse.

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

i posted her stats above.  shes avergaing 5.5 turnovers per game over 8 games.  This almost completely wipes out her assists and you're left with a 17 and 5 (rounding down) player. 

I don't know if this is considered special for the WNBA but it's certainly not what's going to attract and keep viewers. 

[Strike 5,219]

5 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

i posted her stats above.  shes avergaing 5.5 turnovers per game over 8 games.  This almost completely wipes out her assists and you're left with a 17 and 5 (rounding down) player. 

I don't know if this is considered special for the WNBA but it's certainly not what's going to attract and keep viewers. 

It's also worth mentioning that a WNBA game is only 40 minutes long, as compared to a 48 minute NBA game.   Here's a link to Caitlin's stats, sorted by TO's:

https://stats.wnba.com/leaders/?Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular Season&StatCategory=TOV

So the next highest TO/game player is at 4.2, compared to 5.7 for Caitlin.  I also see that Caitlin is only shooting 37.7% which seems kind of low to me.  Is that good in the WNBA?  Regardless, 5.7 TO's/gm in a 40 minute game is unacceptable for a star player.  And, if you look at my first post in this thread, I was and still am complimentary of Caitlin.  I think it's too early to be judging her harshly.  But that doesn't mean we can't be realistic when discussing her stats/performance.