And ... here we go again with a Colo. Baker not accomodating all patrons

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

It’s supposed to be a free country. I think it’s stupid to discriminate against gay people, trans people. I think it’s rotten. But people should have the right to be stupid and rotten. 

[CaptainObvious1 327]

3 hours ago, squistion said:

If you don't want to serve the public that you are legally required to serve and not discriminate against (like LGBTQ folks) then don't serve the public.

He can serve the ABC folks but he isn't required to make a queer cake for them. 

[squistion 1,958]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s supposed to be a free country. I think it’s stupid to discriminate against gay people, trans people. I think it’s rotten. But people should have the right to be stupid and rotten. 

Exhibit A as to why (as I keep telling people) you are no liberal, progressive or anything even remotely resembling a "leftist"

If everyone in this country had held your attitudes Segregation would still exist in the South and The Civil Rights Bill of 1964 would never have been passed. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

1 minute ago, squistion said:

Exhibit A as to why (as I keep telling people) you are no liberal, progressive or anyone even remotely resembling a "leftist"

If everyone in this country had held your attitudes Segregation would still exist in the South and The Civil Rights Bill of 1964 would never have been passed. 

The difference is that the Civil Rights Act dealt with widespread discrimination throughout an entire community. If only one bakery in a community refused to serve black people there would have been no need for a law. 

In any event most private segregation was defeated not by law but by the economic power of the black people who lived in the segregated area. 

[squistion 1,958]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

The difference is that the Civil Rights Act dealt with widespread discrimination throughout an entire community. If only one bakery in a community refused to serve black people there would have been no need for a law. 

In any event most private segregation was defeated not by law but by the economic power of the black people who lived in the segregated area. 

That is simply not true and the economic power of black people did nothing in the South to defeat Jim Crow laws. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

@squistion- let’s suppose I own a sign company. A black man  comes into my store and demands I make him a “Blacks for Trump 2024” poster. Do I have the right to refuse? 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

1 minute ago, squistion said:

That is simply not true and the economic power of black people did nothing in the South to defeat Jim Crow laws. 

I think you need to read more about this issue. Taylor Branch’s three volume history would be a good place to start. Focus on the Montgomery Bus Boycott. 

[squistion 1,958]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

@squistion- let’s suppose I own a sign company. A black man  comes into my store and demands I make him a “Blacks for Trump 2024” poster. Do I have the right to refuse? 

Don't play hypotheticals with me.

You think that if anyone who owns a business doesn't want to sell to someone Black, Hispanic, Muslim, Jewish or LGBTQ for any reason or for no reason at all they should have that right to do that (and you had held that position for years). So don't pretend you are left of center, because you aren't even close.

[Gepetto 1,291]

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

4 minutes ago, squistion said:

Don't play hypotheticals with me.

You think that if anyone who owns a business doesn't want to sell to someone Black, Hispanic, Muslim, Jewish or LGBTQ for any reason or for no reason at all they should have that right to do that (and you had held that position for years). So don't pretend you are left of center, because you aren't even close.

I don’t pretend anything. I’ve always said I was left of center on some issues and not so much on others. Never tried to hide it. 
 

Sorry you won’t answer my hypothetical, I thought it was a good one. 

[BeachGuy23 642]

7 hours ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 Ok. Would you be fine if a phag donuts shop advertised that their donuts, some were made, on the menu, with a that made the hole before they fried them? To garner the LBQT customers.? 

I can't even comprehend the stupidity of your post.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,243]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

@squistion- let’s suppose I own a sign company. A black man  comes into my store and demands I make him a “Blacks for Trump 2024” poster. Do I have the right to refuse? 

You are 100% correct on here. And yes you do. 
 

not to mention this whole case was bs in the first place. They searched for a bakery who wouldn’t just so they could start some idiotic case in the first place. 
 

 

[listen2me 23 1,831]

8 hours ago, squistion said:

Don't play hypotheticals with me.

You think that if anyone who owns a business doesn't want to sell to someone Black, Hispanic, Muslim, Jewish or LGBTQ for any reason or for no reason at all they should have that right to do that (and you had held that position for years). So don't pretend you are left of center, because you aren't even close.

Yea Tim is a raging conservative.   Lol

Or you are just a giant progressive with extra sensitive feelers.  

[Hardcore troubadour 14,956]

14 hours ago, squistion said:

If you don't want to serve the public that you are legally required to serve and not discriminate against (like LGBTQ folks) then don't serve the public.

Ok. So no black spaces on college campuses either. Deal? 

[MDC 7,147]

11 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

@squistion- let’s suppose I own a sign company. A black man  comes into my store and demands I make him a “Blacks for Trump 2024” poster. Do I have the right to refuse? 

You didn’t ask me but I would say no. Unless the sign is profane in some way why would you have the right to refuse service?

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

3 minutes ago, MDC said:

You didn’t ask me but I would say no. Unless the sign is profane in some way why would you have the right to refuse service?

Because I don’t like Trump and don’t want to make a sign promoting Trump in any way. Why should I be required to do so? 

[Engorgeous George 2,150]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because I don’t like Trump and don’t want to make a sign promoting Trump in any way. Why should I be required to do so? 

Is your dislike of Trump a religiously held belief?  The case is about religious beliefs, ostensensibly.

[CaptainObvious1 327]

11 hours ago, squistion said:

Don't play hypotheticals with me.

You think that if anyone who owns a business doesn't want to sell to someone Black, Hispanic, Muslim, Jewish or LGBTQ for any reason or for no reason at all they should have that right to do that (and you had held that position for years). So don't pretend you are left of center, because you aren't even close.

The bakery isn't refusing to sell the homo a cake.  The bakery is refusing to make a specific cake.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,956]

Let’s say you owned a diner and someone came in and told you they wanted something not on the menu. You could say no, order what’s on the menu. Would anyone have a problem with that? Could you walk into a Kosher Jew deli and say you wanted cheese on your corned beef? 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

Just now, Engorgeous George said:

Is your dislike of Trump a religiously held belief?  The case is about religious beliefs, ostensensibly.

It could be. I’m rather passionate about it. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Kosher Jew deli 

As opposed to a Kosher Italian deli? 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,956]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

As opposed to a Kosher Italian deli? 

Not all kosher delis are owned by Jews. Many of them offer Kosher items, but have other offerings. 

[Engorgeous George 2,150]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

As opposed to a Kosher Italian deli? 

Where you can get capicola in addition to good pastrami.

[MDC 7,147]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because I don’t like Trump and don’t want to make a sign promoting Trump in any way. Why should I be required to do so? 

I’m not a fake lawyer but I’d think your business is a public accommodation and obliged to deliver the same service to all potential customers.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,243]

16 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because I don’t like Trump and don’t want to make a sign promoting Trump in any way. Why should I be required to do so? 

They are trying to make this a religious thing. It doesn’t need to be. It could be anything you as a person don’t want to do. It’s your business period. 
 

if someone came in and said I want you to bake a cake depicting a car crash. You could say I find that offensive and say no. You don’t need a reason 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

9 minutes ago, MDC said:

I’m not a fake lawyer but I’d think your business is a public accommodation and obliged to deliver the same service to all potential customers.

What if someone demands I make a sign with a swastika on it? Are there no exceptions? 

[MDC 7,147]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

What if someone demands I make a sign with a swastika on it? Are there no exceptions? 

I’d think that would violate community standards for decency in a way that a Trump sign doesn’t. 

[cyclone24 1,912]

9 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

What if someone demands I make a sign with a swastika on it? Are there no exceptions? 

I think most people see that as hate speech. A rainbow colored cake isnt. 
 

I mean, it’s hard to get into every single example where we can say yes to Simon know to others. In general if I open up a business it’s because I’m there to make money, not exert my political or personal beliefs. 
 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,319]

5 hours ago, BeachGuy23 said:

I can't even comprehend the stupidity of your post.

 Which was my point. Who cares about this stupidity . Go somewhere where you can. 

[iam90sbaby 2,493]

15 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

You’re not pandering, you’re not agreeing, you’re doing business. That’s the end of your relationship with the person that walks in. They give you money for a service that you provide.
 

You, the owner start injecting your political beliefs into every customer that walks in you are costing yourself money. Maybe you don’t like the shirt someone is wearing or something They said waiting in line. Too bad. 
You are dealing with the public and you’re not going to agree with all of them. If you can’t handle that, don’t provide a public service for your community. Like I would never open a bar and say sorry only republicans can drink here… it’s the same logic. And it’s stupid.

Says the guy that hasn't worked in 20 years and never ran a business 

[cyclone24 1,912]

11 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Says the guy that hasn't worked in 20 years and never ran a business 

Ha while true I’m guessing 99% of us have not run a business. I didn’t know you had to run one to know you shouldn’t alienate Customer bases.

By that logic, we better not have one more political thread in this forum

[iam90sbaby 2,493]

2 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Ha while true I’m guessing 99% of us have not run a business. I didn’t know you had to run one to know you shouldn’t alienate Customer bases.

By that logic, we better not have one more political thread in this forum

Who gives a fock about alienating a fraction of a percent of your customer base.  It's their business they can do whatever the hell they want with it. It isn't a publicity traded company.  They invested their money and took the risk to start a business and they should be able to run it however they see fit without some alphabet mafia telling them wtf to do.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

16 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

The Baker was asked to add food coloring to the frosting mix and the cake batter.  He has no objections to using food coloring.  When he was told that the routine innocuous task has specific symolism to the buyer, symbolism non-apparent to the Baker or anyone else for that matter he then refused.  This was not about his beliefs but rather about responding to her beliefs.

Could he argue that, being targeted by the plaintiff, she was responding to his beliefs and not actually asking for a generic routine innocuous task.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

16 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

You’re not pandering, you’re not agreeing, you’re doing business. That’s the end of your relationship with the person that walks in. They give you money for a service that you provide.
 

You, the owner start injecting your political beliefs into every customer that walks in you are costing yourself money. Maybe you don’t like the shirt someone is wearing or something They said waiting in line. Too bad. 
You are dealing with the public and you’re not going to agree with all of them. If you can’t handle that, don’t provide a public service for your community. Like I would never open a bar and say sorry only republicans can drink here… it’s the same logic. And it’s stupid.

The baker is injecting his religious beliefs, which is constitutionally protected, not his political beliefs which are NOT constitutionally protected.

 

I haven't followed your back and forth that much in the thread, so maybe I'm missing something.  If so, my bad.

[MDC 7,147]

Is this really where we want to go? Turning down customer business because we don’t approve of their lifestyle or politics? Sad state of affairs where people are so hooked on politics that they’re willing to turn down customers to prove a shallow point. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

What if someone demands I make a sign with a swastika on it? Are there no exceptions? 

 

1 hour ago, MDC said:

I’d think that would violate community standards for decency in a way that a Trump sign doesn’t. 

 

1 hour ago, cyclone24 said:

I think most people see that as hate speech. A rainbow colored cake isnt. 
 

I mean, it’s hard to get into every single example where we can say yes to Simon know to others. In general if I open up a business it’s because I’m there to make money, not exert my political or personal beliefs. 
 

The cake is for a private event... not public.  If a person wants a swastika on a sign for a private event, then there are no violations to community standards or hate speech.

[MDC 7,147]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 

 

The cake is for a private event... not public.  If a person wants a swastika on a sign for a private event, then there are no violations to community standards or hate speech.

The question was whether the baker or sign maker should have to make a cake/sign with the swastika on it. 

[iam90sbaby 2,493]

26 minutes ago, MDC said:

Is this really where we want to go? Turning down customer business because we don’t approve of their lifestyle or politics? Sad state of affairs where people are so hooked on politics that they’re willing to turn down customers to prove a shallow point. 

Yes 

[MDC 7,147]

1 minute ago, iam90sbaby said:

Yes 

I legit feel bad for you. 

[Cdub100 3,842]

14 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s supposed to be a free country. I think it’s stupid to discriminate against gay people, trans people. I think it’s rotten. But people should have the right to be stupid and rotten. 

I think it's stupid to discriminate against Christians by forcing them to do things against their belief. Forcing someone to do something you know they don't want to do is stupid and rotten.