Mass Deportation

[Nomad99 699]

8 hours ago, squistion said:

No, I care about treating them humanely and without intentionally causing suffering, which is not caring about them over our own citizens, because it is the right thing to do. 

THEY SHOULDN'T BE HERE! YOU, 100% BACKED & SUPPORTED THEM COMING HERE......THE BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS. You can't help poison a well & then cry foul when people get sick.

[squistion 1,947]

47 minutes ago, shorepatrol said:

Your entire belief system is a false dichotomy. You hate yourself, you're pathetic 

That is funny. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

5 hours ago, Nomad99 said:

THEY SHOULDN'T BE HERE! YOU, 100% BACKED & SUPPORTED THEM COMING HERE......THE BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS. You can't help poison a well & then cry foul when people get sick.

But nobody’s sick. The vast majority of these people don’t commit any violent crimes and their presence here is a net benefit to us. Of course they absolutely should be here. And most of them are staying no matter what you do. 
 

You guys are living in a false nightmare of your own creation. You blame these poor innocent people for your own problems that they didn’t cause and you desperately look for ways to get rid of them. It’s not happening. The sooner you come to accept that the better off we will all be. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

The goal now is to not allow this current blindness and hatred to rob us of our humanity. Trump’s anti-American policies need to be fought through legal means. They will never succeed at deporting even close to the numbers they’re talking about, but if they deport even one non-violent criminal, that’s one person too many. 

There are several organizations and groups that will be fighting this but the most effective is probably the American Civil Liberties Union. I have given generously and will continue to do so; hopefully others reading this will do the same. Now is the time to demonstrate your patriotism and love of the USA and all it’s supposed to stand for. 

[lickin_starfish 1,890]

I am in favor of letting nonviolent illegals stay here under these conditions: 

They have to perform any job or task that a US citizen tells them to do. 

They are taxed at 85% of their income. 

They must reside with a registered Democrat sponsor. 

They must vote Republican in all elections.

[Nomad99 699]

5 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

their presence here is a net benefit to us.
 

 

Quit lying. 

Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. This result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work, and they do pay some taxes, including income and payroll taxes. The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and tax payments. It also means a large share qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Like their less-educated and low income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create.”

That is a direct quote from house budget. 

[Tree of Knowledge 1,699]

4 hours ago, lickin_starfish said:

I am in favor of letting nonviolent illegals stay here under these conditions: 

They have to perform any job or task that a US citizen tells them to do. 

They are taxed at 85% of their income. 

They must reside with a registered Democrat sponsor. 

They must vote Republican in all elections.

I second the motion.  

[supermike80 1,803]

Can't ait till we get these kinds of reports:

Jose Alvarez is set to be deported.  He was convicted of identity theft and covid fraud in 2020 and ordered to be deported.  Jose has a wife and 5 kids in the USA and since his conviction, has been a super nice and cool guy.     

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

3 hours ago, Nomad99 said:

Quit lying. 

Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. This result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work, and they do pay some taxes, including income and payroll taxes. The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and tax payments. It also means a large share qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Like their less-educated and low income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create.”

That is a direct quote from house budget. 

Thats completely wrong. You got that from a group of right wing politicians and they’re not telling you the truth. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

Areas affected by mass migration see an automatic rise in crime. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Areas affected by mass migration see an automatic rise in crime. 

You have a habit of making statements like this without ever citing your sources. You’re usually wrong or misleading; in this case it’s probably both. As demonstrated to you again and again, with links proving it every time, undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than those born here. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

You have a habit of making statements like this without ever citing your sources. You’re usually wrong or misleading; in this case it’s probably both. As demonstrated to you again and again, with links proving it every time, undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than those born here. 

That’s simply not true. Anymore. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

That’s simply not true. Anymore. 

Provide a link from an objective source. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Provide a link from an objective source. 

You do it. You’re the one disputing my claim. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You do it. You’re the one disputing my claim. 

I’ve done it dozens of times. This is from two months ago: 

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-offending-rate-lower-us-born-citizen-rate

Go ahead and refute it. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve done it dozens of times. This is from two months ago: 

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-offending-rate-lower-us-born-citizen-rate

Go ahead and refute it. 

I said areas affected by mass migration. 

[Engorgeous George 2,126]

23 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

You have a habit of making statements like this without ever citing your sources. You’re usually wrong or misleading; in this case it’s probably both. As demonstrated to you again and again, with links proving it every time, undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than those born here. 

I love it when you provide links to back up your assertion on this.  Every time you do I deconstruct them as being very outdated, partisan, and missing the point as they use the metric of convictions which ignores that many illegals evade prosecution and conviction by moving back to their home countries, at least for a time.  Convictions has little to nothing to do with rate of criminality.  that someone gets away with a crime does not mean the crime has not been committed. Whenever that is pointed out to you  you end up ignoring those obvious flaws in your supposedly supporting documents.  Just like you ignore the economic arguments that reintroduced diseases, school overcrowding leading to lower educational achievement for a whole generation and thus lower productivity for that generation, inflated cost for low income housing and thus shortages of the same, and of course murders and maiming's all have a cost that is never factored in to your articles supporting your fallacious economic arguments.  What is the cost for a rape murder?  Waht would you or I or anyone give up to prevent that from happening to a loved one?

 

I hope the illegals all flock to your state and local as they try to avoid deportation.  I hope they seek the protections of your politicians.  Since they are an economic benefit you and your like should be advertising for them to relocate from the U.S as a whole to your locales.  We will see how that works.  Of course we already know from Martha's vineyard to New York and chicago, but lets have more of that.

 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I said areas affected by mass migration. 

And you failed to provide any links or sources. Until you do I just assume you’re talking out of your a$$

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

And you failed to provide any links or sources. Until you do I just assume you’re talking out of your a$$

Crime is up in NYC. 

[Engorgeous George 2,126]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve done it dozens of times. This is from two months ago: 

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-offending-rate-lower-us-born-citizen-rate

Go ahead and refute it. 

From your article, though there is more...

 

 It should be noted that arrest is a commonly used, but imperfect measure of crime that in part reflects law enforcement activity rather than actual offending rates.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

And you failed to provide any links or sources. Until you do I just assume you’re talking out of your a$$

Again I ask, where on a police report is there a box for the perps immigration status? 

[Nomad99 699]

44 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Thats completely wrong. You got that from a group of right wing politicians and they’re not telling you the truth. 

Liar liar pants on  

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

I love it when you provide links to back up your assertion on this.  Everytime you do I deconstruct them as being very outdated, partisan, and missing the point as they use the metric of convictions which ignores that many illegals evade prosecution and conviction by moving back to their home countries, at least for a time.  Convictions has little to nothing to do with rate of criminality.  that someone getsd away with a crime does not mean the crime has not been commited. Whenever that is pointed out to you  you end up ignoring those obvious flaws in your supposedly supporting documents.  Just like you ignore the economic arguments that reintroduced deseases, school overcrowding leading to lower educational achievement for a whole generation, inflated cost for low income housing and thus shortages of the same and of course murders and maimings all have a cost that is never factored in to you articles supporting your fallacious economic arguments.

 

I hope the illegals all flock to your state and local as they try to avoid deportation.  I hope they seek the protections of your politicians.  Since they are an economic benefit you and your like should be advertising for them to relocate from the U.S as a whole to your locales.  We will see how that works.  Of course we already know from Martha's vineyard to New York and chicago, but lets have more of that.

 

 

I don’t ignore any of these arguments. Let me break them down: 

1. The latest link I provided is dated September of 2024. So not outdated.

2. Partisan? I don’t agree but in today’s climate it’s probably impossible for me to prove that to you.

3. You may have a point about convictions but it’s probably impossible to measure this issue in any other way. But to suggest that this argument by you somehow proves that the numbers of undocumented committing violent crimes is significantly higher is really a stretch on your part. Up to you to prove and I don’t think you can. 
 

4. I have never ignored the other items you listed: reintroduced diseases, cost to education, affordable housing, etc. These are all real concerns. So is keeping our prices lower. My argument has always been, not that these folks are always a positive, but that they are a NET positive: that the gains outweigh the losses. The losses are serious and need to be addressed better by our society. I don’t believe that getting rid of these people is the answer to them. 

5. Well I live in California, and we have plenty of undocumented immigrants. Thanks to them we are able to send agriculture to the rest of the country at prices much more affordable. So I think they’re a positive impact. 
 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

11 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

From your article, though there is more...

 

 It should be noted that arrest is a commonly used, but imperfect measure of crime that in part reflects law enforcement activity rather than actual offending rates.

Yes. And again while it is imperfect it certainly points in a certain direction. There have literally been hundreds of studies on this subject during the last 10 years alone and they all suggest the same result- these folks commit less crimes than those born here, not more. So far as I know there is not one legitimate study that proves the opposite to be true. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

5 minutes ago, Nomad99 said:

Liar liar pants on  

In what way? You quoted a House committee report written by Republicans with an axe to grind. I am skeptical of the accuracy because its assertions, none of which are backed up by facts, are consistently contradicted by every study made on this subject. 

[Strike 5,186]

I think Mass deportation is a great idea.  A good percentage of illegals are catholics.  We should have ICE show up at catholic churches on Sundays in heavy illegal immigrant communities and look for illegals there.  Will make it easy to achieve the numbers of deportations Trump is promising. 

[Engorgeous George 2,126]

21 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t ignore any of these arguments. Let me break them down: 

1. The latest link I provided is dated September of 2024. So not outdated.

And yet it is from crime stats from 2012 to 2018, so not current

2. Partisan? I don’t agree but in today’s climate it’s probably impossible for me to prove that to you.

I know you don't agree but you might look at their bibliography where they cite themselves and others who universally take one advocacy position based on their admittedly flawed metrics.

3. You may have a point about convictions but it’s probably impossible to measure this issue in any other way. But to suggest that this argument by you somehow proves that the numbers of undocumented committing violent crimes is significantly higher is really a stretch on your part. Up to you to prove and I don’t think you can. 

Your own article admits it uses a flawed metric, yet you ignore that.  In which direction do you think the flaw flows, only one, and that is that the crime rate is much higher.  Still, you are correct, I cannot find a comprehensive data base showing the number of warrants active for illegals failing to appear for criminal hearings across all jurisdictions and for asylum hearings.  That statistic is not kept.  I can tell you as a career prosecutor and police legal advisor the occurance is routine, but no, I do not have statistics.  Maybe we could get one of your liberal think tanks at a liberal university (are there any other kind) to suck up a government grant to do the work, but I doubt it as they know damn well the outcome would not support their political bias they wish to advance.
 

4. I have never ignored the other items you listed: reintroduced diseases, cost to education, affordable housing, etc. These are all real concerns. So is keeping our prices lower. My argument has always been, not that these folks are always a positive, but that they are a NET positive: that the gains outweigh the losses. The losses are serious and need to be addressed better by our society. I don’t believe that getting rid of these people is the answer to them. 

And yet you never address the elephant in the room, that entire generations are recieving an inferior education due to overcrowding and teachers having to spend an inordinate amount of time with non-english speakers.  That costs accrues over the entire lifetime of those children. Iit is a tragedy.  Also, any positives migrants can bring, and I believe there are many, can be had by controled entry into the country, by limiting the influx to what can be absorbed at that time.  I support immigration, awful and controled.  I have helped immigrants by teaching a naturalization class. ( I might srgue that is greater help to them than you throwing them a few bucks to remove trash from your dying shopping  I have neighbors from Mexico, Ethiopia, and the Ukraine I enjoy having them as neighbors.  (The Pakistani behind my back fensce not so much as his yard is now a dump as far as I can tell.  The ahole needs to clear that junk out.)

5. Well I live in California, and we have plenty of undocumented immigrants. Thanks to them we are able to send agriculture to the rest of the country at prices much more affordable. So I think they’re a positive impact. 

So you rely on one benefit to outweigh all the negatives and you do so woithout addressing how legal guestworker programs would accomplish the same thing.
 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

I appreciate the conversation, @Engorgeous George. I honestly don’t think we’re as far apart as it might appear, because I don’t disagree with most of the concerns you raise. Like you I would prefer a more orderly system. But we don’t have one right now and in the meantime I am just not for persecuting people that I regard as mostly innocent. 

Like you I have serious long term concerns about education. But I don’t believe the solution is to expel certain children from the schools. I just can’t be for that, ever. 

Of course my views on this don’t matter. I can shout them loudly in this forum and elsewhere, I can send money to the ACLU, I can take personal action with regard to some people I know (I won’t get into details on that.) But the fact is that my side was defeated in this last election and even long before that I saw the writing on the wall: a strong majority of the public disagrees with me on this subject. At least for the time being, they want not only a strong border (which I don’t mind) but mass deportation. So be it. Nothing I can do to stop it, really. I hope for the best. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,928]

59 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Again I ask, where on a police report is there a box for the perps immigration status? 

Paging Real Tim. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

14 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Paging Real Tim. 

I’ve posted the studies. @Engorgeous George is correct that they’re imperfect, including for the reason you’re asking about. Still they all point in one direction. 

[squistion 1,947]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I appreciate the conversation, @Engorgeous George. I honestly don’t think we’re as far apart as it might appear, because I don’t disagree with most of the concerns you raise. Like you I would prefer a more orderly system. But we don’t have one right now and in the meantime I am just not for persecuting people that I regard as mostly innocent. 

Like you I have serious long term concerns about education. But I don’t believe the solution is to expel certain children from the schools. I just can’t be for that, ever. 

Of course my views on this don’t matter. I can shout them loudly in this forum and elsewhere, I can send money to the ACLU, I can take personal action with regard to some people I know (I won’t get into details on that.) But the fact is that my side was defeated in this last election and even long before that I saw the writing on the wall: a strong majority of the public disagrees with me on this subject. At least for the time being, they want not only a strong border (which I don’t mind) but mass deportation. So be it. Nothing I can do to stop it, really. I hope for the best. 

One would imagine that educating these kids while they are here, would provide a long term net benefit to this country.

[Engorgeous George 2,126]

51 minutes ago, squistion said:

One would imagine that educating these kids while they are here, would provide a long term net benefit to this country.

More than offset by the fact that though they get educated it comes at the expense of all the native born kids in class who are now overcrowded and losing their teacher's attention to the non-english speaking child which takes inordinate time.  Yes the illegal gets educated but all the native kids fall behind where they should be and there being more native kids that outweighs the one good.

[5-Points 3,387]

11 hours ago, Nomad99 said:

Quit lying. 

Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. This result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work, and they do pay some taxes, including income and payroll taxes. The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and tax payments. It also means a large share qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Like their less-educated and low income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create.”

That is a direct quote from house budget. 

Not to mention all the money they repatriate to their home countries, thereby taking that money out of the U.S. economy. While simultaneously boosting the economies of those countries. 

Much of which, presumably, is given to the cartels to bring the next batch of illegals across our border. So they can continue to prey on our economy. 

Fock them all and the shitbags here who enable them to prosper at our expense. 

 

 

 

[avoiding injuries 1,508]

Looking forward to eviction day

[Nomad99 699]

15 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

Not to mention all the money they repatriate to their home countries, thereby taking that money out of the U.S. economy. While simultaneously boosting the economies of those countries. 

Much of which, presumably, is given to the cartels to bring the next batch of illegals across our border. So they can continue to prey on our economy. 

Fock them all and the shitbags here who enable them to prosper at our expense. 

 

 

 

You & your logic

[Reality 3,096]

 

 

[5-Points 3,387]

1 hour ago, Nomad99 said:

You & your logic

Facts over feels, my friend.

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

1 hour ago, 5-Points said:

Not to mention all the money they repatriate to their home countries, thereby taking that money out of the U.S. economy. While simultaneously boosting the economies of those countries. 

Much of which, presumably, is given to the cartels to bring the next batch of illegals across our border. So they can continue to prey on our economy. 

Fock them all and the shitbags here who enable them to prosper at our expense. 

 

 

 

Are you aware that when immigrants, whether legal or undocumented, send money from here back to other countries, it actually strengthens our economy? No of course you’re not because they don’t teach you that little fact on Fox News. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

5 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

More than offset by the fact that though they get educated it comes at the expense of all the native born kids in class who are now overcrowded and losing their teacher's attention to the non-english speaking child which takes inordinate time.  Yes the illegal gets educated but all the native kids fall behind where they should be and there being more native kids that outweighs the one good.

This is crap. Sorry but I come from a family of educators and there is NO evidence that anyone falls behind due to undocumented children being educated. Yes there is overcrowding in some areas but the answer is more money, not kicking children out of school. 
 

 

[5-Points 3,387]

20 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Are you aware that when immigrants, whether legal or undocumented, send money from here back to other countries, it actually strengthens our economy? No of course you’re not because they don’t teach you that little fact on Fox News. 

I don't watch Fox News. 

You should just send money to people in Central & South America before they come here. You know, to strengthen our economy. That way, you can feel good about yourself, while simultaneously preventing people from risking life and limb to get here for your money. 

Win/Win