Here come the tariffs

[Hardcore troubadour 14,949]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

He wants to talk to Trump, which is the responsible thing to do. I have no idea what you mean by “coming to heel”, because I have no idea what Canada did “wrong” before and what they’re supposed to be doing now. But as I mentioned before, your head is so far up Trump’s ass that you view everything as a “victory”. 

He has failed to secure his southern border and bad hombres are crossing into the US. Now you know. 

[The Real timschochet 6,441]

30 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Please source your assertion.

The agreement was signed in January of 2020. 2020 was the highest year for border crossings during Trump’s first term. 

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

Bring on the tariffs and get rid of the IRS and income tax.  Let me keep my money and spend it how I want.

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

The agreement was signed in January of 2020. 2020 was the highest year for border crossings during Trump’s first term. 

Legal Immigration declined by 17% between 2016 and 2019

Temporary Immigration declined by 10% between 2017 and 2019, and those pretending to be seeking asylum etc also decreased as per my source

Trump was effective, there is no question, this time I hope he is even more effective in 2020

[The Real timschochet 6,441]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Legal Immigration declined by 17% between 2016 and 2019

Temporary Immigration declined by 10% between 2017 and 2019, and those pretending to be seeking asylum etc also decreased as per my source

Trump was effective, there is no question, this time I hope he is even more effective in 2020

None of that disputes what I wrote. It did go down; he signed the agreement and then it went back up. Those are the facts. 
 

(I would also point out that neither the decrease or increase had anything to do with Trump’s actions or inactions- or later, Biden’s actions or inactions- they’re due to economic and societal changes, the impacts of Covid and climate change on South America, and other factors, but that’s a separate argument. ) 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,949]

9 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The agreement was signed in January of 2020. 2020 was the highest year for border crossings during Trump’s first term. 

Just saw a 7 and a 10 year old girl shows up at the border unaccompanied.  I don’t even like thinking about what they went through on the journey here. You DGAF. Strawberries. 

[The Real timschochet 6,441]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Just saw a 7 and a 10 year old girl shows up at the border unaccompanied.  I don’t even like thinking about what they went through on the journey here. You DGAF. Strawberries. 

You keep bringing up children. Of course I care about them. The difference between us is that I know they’re coming here anyhow no matter what fences we put up. I want them to come here safely, with protections. You want them to starve in their own country. 

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

None of that disputes what I wrote. It did go down; he signed the agreement and then it went back up. Those are the facts. 
 

(I would also point out that neither the decrease or increase had anything to do with Trump’s actions or inactions- or later, Biden’s actions or inactions- they’re due to economic and societal changes, the impacts of Covid and climate change on South America, and other factors, but that’s a separate argument. ) 

An yet it does refute you position, and uses sourcing to do so.   Its effective and it will work again, along with a variety of other measures.   This is a very good thing for this nation.

 

[Death 301]

We must at all costs stop the invasion of those nasty Canadians, who pour over the border like gravy on mashed potatoes. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,241]

32 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You keep bringing up children. Of course I care about them. The difference between us is that I know they’re coming here anyhow no matter what fences we put up. I want them to come here safely, with protections. You want them to starve in their own country. 

yes absolutely.  we are not here to take care of every issue of every kid in the world

 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

18 minutes ago, Death said:

We must at all costs stop the invasion of those nasty Canadians, who pour over the border like gravy on mashed potatoes. 

Don't forget the cheese curds!

[Hardcore troubadour 14,949]

34 minutes ago, Death said:

We must at all costs stop the invasion of those nasty Canadians, who pour over the border like gravy on mashed potatoes. 

Our daily dose of Rusty ignorance. Clown thinks it’s Canadians coming in at the northern border. Sad excuse for a newsman. 

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

This seems like the perfect being the enemy of the good.  If the border can't be completely sealed we... do nothing?   

It can't be completely sealed?  All we've heard for 4 years was that Trump sealed it, Biden opened it, and trump will seal it again, with no legislation.  Right?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,949]

55 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You keep bringing up children. Of course I care about them. The difference between us is that I know they’re coming here anyhow no matter what fences we put up. I want them to come here safely, with protections. You want them to starve in their own country. 

Yeah. They’re all skin and bones when they show up. Just shows you got nothing and could not care less about these kids.  Such a fraud. 

[jerryskids 6,573]

11 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

It can't be completely sealed?  All we've heard for 4 years was that Trump sealed it, Biden opened it, and trump will seal it again, with no legislation.  Right?

So, a childish rant. Thanks, Veruca!

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

9 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yeah. They’re all skin and bones when they show up. Just shows you got nothing and could not care less about these kids.  Such a fraud. 

You would prefer them to just die in their own country as opposed to letting them in to save them?

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

Just now, jerryskids said:

So, a childish rant. Thanks, Veruca!

It's what the right has been saying for 4 years?  You think that's a childish rant?  I can bump the threads.

Remember when Trump blocked legislation to help fix the border, and we were told we don't need legislation to fix the border?  We just needed Trump to fix it?  He can seal it through EO right?  It was sealed before right?

[squistion 1,954]

2 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

You would prefer them to just die in their own country as opposed to letting them in to save them?

Probably, HT has never impressed me as being any kind of a humanitarian. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,949]

 Libtards worked up over tariffs but voted to raise the corporate tax.  I guess that wouldn’t result in higher prices. Just goes to show how unserious and ignorant these cry babies like Tim and Gutterboy are.  

[Hardcore troubadour 14,949]

Now they are dying. lol. They look pretty “healthy” to me after walking thousands of miles. GTFO. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,741]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

 Libtards worked up over tariffs but voted to raise the corporate tax.  I guess that wouldn’t result in hire prices. Just goes to show how unserious and ignorant these cry babies like Tim and Gutterboy are.  

Economics 1.01, Liberals are retarded. 

 

[jerryskids 6,573]

10 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

It's what the right has been saying for 4 years?  You think that's a childish rant?  I can bump the threads.

Remember when Trump blocked legislation to help fix the border, and we were told we don't need legislation to fix the border?  We just needed Trump to fix it?  He can seal it through EO right?  It was sealed before right?

Sure, bump posts that said we'd stop 100% of illegal aliens crossing.

You propose that it will be a fail if we don't stop 100%.

Child

[Engorgeous George 2,142]

38 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

You would prefer them to just die in their own country as opposed to letting them in to save them?

Yes.  Absolutely.  Otherwise we have to take in the world.  Of course I would prefer if they did not die, but I do not let that possibility mandate that our country is the world's keeper.  Our national policy should not be to care for the world, it should be to take care of our own.  Once that is accomplished we should attempt to lend a hand to friends and allies and then to see that markets are stabilized even in countries of enemies if they are trading partners.  I leave absolute charity to churches and philanthropic organizations, to which I give.  Our government has no business being a philanthropic organization.

[Engorgeous George 2,142]

As for tariffs I believe they should not be used or leveraged to obtainconcessions from other countries other than on strictly trade matters.  I would not threaten tariffs for cooperation, for instance on closing a border or securing a cooperative defense agreement.  I would impose reciprocal tariffs on trade partneres.  I would have them equal to those imposed on our products.  i would announce our policy is to catch up for past tariffs by other countries and that ours would be imposed until such time as theirs are removed, and then for as many years, months or days thereafter that they had tariffs above our own.  That latter policy would be subject to negotiation.  I would not view tariffs as a means to gain advantage, just  to eliminate trading disadvantages since in the end I believe they cost both sides in a trade war.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

There are multiple ways the border can and should be secured.  Get it done.  Slow illegal immigration down as much as we reasonably can.  Make it a much shorter process to becoming a legal citizen.  This should be common sense.

[The Real timschochet 6,441]

14 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Yes.  Absolutely.  Otherwise we have to take in the world.  Of course I would prefer if they did not die, but I do not let that possibility mandate that our country is the world's keeper.  Our national policy should not be to care for the world, it should be to take care of our own.  Once that is accomplished we should attempt to lend a hand to friends and alies and then to see that markets are stabilized even in countries of enemies if they are trading partners.  I leave absolute charity to churches and philanthropic organizations, to which I give.  Our government has no business being a philanthropic organization.

I don’t see why we can’t do both. IMO it’s good for us to help the world- good for our economy, good for trade. The Marshall Plan saved Europe from starvation and Communism and made us a thousand times richer. You would have opposed it, clearly. 
I am NOT arguing for altruism. My firm belief is that when we (a) help other countries and (b) take in poor refugees into this country we are helping ourselves, increasing our own prosperity. History has shown this to be true. 

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

27 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

 Libtards worked up over tariffs but voted to raise the corporate tax.  I guess that wouldn’t result in higher prices. Just goes to show how unserious and ignorant these cry babies like Tim and Gutterboy are.  

How much did corporations lower prices after getting their tax cut?

[Engorgeous George 2,142]

To those who espouse that Trump is a master negotiator and will only impose tariffs reasoanbly and as a means to an end, well I think it is incumbant upon him to articualte a policy not unlike what i have set forth above so as to keep us, U.S. citizens informed, our stock markets and money markets calm, and to create a discussion with the world, a discussion with teeth, but one based on reciprocity and reasonableness.  Those of you hoping Trump will be reasonable, or assuming he will be are projecting your thoughts to him.  He needs to articualte his own thoughts so you do not have to speculate or surmise what will happen.  I find his, Trump's, lack of clarity irresponsible and disturbing.

[Engorgeous George 2,142]

23 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t see why we can’t do both. IMO it’s good for us to help the world- good for our economy, good for trade. The Marshall Plan saved Europe from starvation and Communism and made us a thousand times richer. You would have opposed it, clearly. 
I am NOT arguing for altruism. My firm belief is that when we (a) help other countries and (b) take in poor refugees into this country we are helping ourselves, increasing our own prosperity. History has shown this to be true. 

I don't recall that we had an influx of millions upon millions of refugees year after year as part of the Marshall Plan.  I do recall that in theory we both gave and lent money, money often not pasid back by the way, to our allies and friends to strengthen them and so to strengthen ourselves.  Clearly I would have supported the Marshall Plan as i stated we should, when feasible, aid our allies and friends.  Doing so is clearly and proximately in our national interest,

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

23 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Sure, bump posts that said we'd stop 100% of illegal aliens crossing.

You propose that it will be a fail if we don't stop 100%.

Child

You're gonna pretend that we didn't hear for 4 years how Biden could easily close the border and then call me a child

[Strike 5,213]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

To those who espouse that Trump is a master negotiator and will only impose tariffs reasoanbly and as a means to an end, well I think it is incumbant uoppn him to articualte a policy not unlike what i have set forth above so as to keep us, U.S. citizens informed, our stock markets and money markets calm, and to create a discussion with the world, a discussion with teeth, but one based on reciprocity and reasonableness.  Those of you hoping Trump will be reasonable, or assuming he will be are projecting your thoughts to him.  He needs to articualte his own thoughts so you do not have to speculate or surmise what will happen.  I find his, Trump's, lack of clarity irresponsible and disturbing.

We have a previous four year run on which to base our opinion of reasonableness. I'm not projecting anything.  I'm extrapolating based on previous events.

[Engorgeous George 2,142]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t see why we can’t do both. IMO it’s good for us to help the world- good for our economy, good for trade. The Marshall Plan saved Europe from starvation and Communism and made us a thousand times richer. You would have opposed it, clearly. 
I am NOT arguing for altruism. My firm belief is that when we (a) help other countries and (b) take in poor refugees into this country we are helping ourselves, increasing our own prosperity. History has shown this to be true. 

Liberals never see why we can't do both or more to the point why we can't do all things.  The reason therefore is they do not understand math.  They believe money is magically created by printing it.  They do not recognize limitations on resources.  Not a single one has ever balanced an equation or a budget.  Strange that those who tout sceince do not believe in balanced equations.

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

Just now, Strike said:

We have a previous four year run on which to base our opinion of reasonableness. I'm not projecting anything.  I'm extrapolating based on previous events.

During his first run he started a trade war with china  So we can assume we will have more with other countries and escalations on china.  I agree.

[Engorgeous George 2,142]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

We have a previous four year run on which to base our opinion of reasonableness. I'm not projecting anything.  I'm extrapolating based on previous events.

I maintain that projecting and extrapolating are the same thing.  i too suspect Trump will ultimately be more reasonable in his policy than are the black and white sound bite statements of a campaign.  That acknowledged I believe he has an obligation to be clear on the matter, not to continue to reside in the sound bite.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,949]

12 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

How much did corporations lower prices after getting their tax cut?

So if we cut the tariffs on China they will drop their prices?

[Strike 5,213]

3 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I maintain that projecting and extrapolating are the same thing.  i too suspect Trump will ultimately be more reasonable in his policy than are the black and white sound bite statements of a campaign.  That acknowledged I believe he has an obligation to be clear on the matter, not to continue to reside in the sound bite.

You said "projecting your own thoughts on him".  Extrapolating from his previous actions is not the same as projecting my own thoughts on him.  I don't see any way you can equate those two sentences.

[jerryskids 6,573]

12 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

You're gonna pretend that we didn't hear for 4 years how Biden could easily close the border and then call me a child

I'm calling you a child for equating "close the border" with "zero illegal aliens or else it's a failure."

Child

[The Real timschochet 6,441]

10 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Liberals never see why we can't do both or more to the point why we can't do all things.  The reason therefore is they do not understand math.  They believe money is magically created by printing it.  They do not recognize limitations on resources.  Not a single one has ever balanced an equation or a budget.  Strange that those who tout sceince do not believe in balanced equations.

Oh please. The next time a Republican in office even attempts to balance the budget will be the first time. Let’s not even pretend that conservatives are any more economically responsible than liberals are. The only difference is what are we spending the money on. Thats all. 

[Engorgeous George 2,142]

45 minutes ago, Strike said:

You said "projecting your own thoughts on him".  Extrapolating from his previous actions is not the same as projecting my own thoughts on him.  I don't see any way you can equate those two sentences.

Since the extrapolating is being done by others than Trump I believe it to be projection of the extrapolators thoughts and hopes.  You disagree.  Disagreeing with me places you in pretty august company so no worriers there.  Also, I do not take umbrage with your disagreement.  I recognize that my thoughts on the matter are subject to my own opinions and prejudices, they are not objective fact.

[Engorgeous George 2,142]

34 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Oh please. The next time a Republican in office even attempts to balance the budget will be the first time. Let’s not even pretend that conservatives are any more economically responsible than liberals are. The only difference is what are we spending the money on. Thats all. 

I agree that Rupubicans, or conservatives have no better a track record than do liberals.  I merely note that for liberals it is a core belief while conservatives or republicans at least acknowledge the problem.  The reason I am a fan of neither party is that they do what they want fiscally to address gaining and staying in power in the now and the immediate future.  Neither has our long term interests at heart.  They both have the impulse control of children.  Oh to get an adult in charge, one who can provide for the future and is willing to suffer a bit of austerity now to arrive at that future.