Judge's ruling to allow SJSU trans women's volleyball player to compete in tournament receives backlash

[TimHauck 2,876]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Ok let me go a little deeper.  And I doubt you will have this and I'm not trying to be difficult here.  Do you have any evidence that anyone on her team other than maybe the coaches KNEW she was a biological male?  Because my understanding is this ONLY became an issue this year and even one of the coaches got in to some trouble IIRC talking about it wrong and it seemed like even that coach was unaware until it became an issue.  So I suspect her actual sex was hidden from a LOT of people until it somehow got leaked. 

Yeah that’s my point.  They didn’t think there was a safety issue until they found out she was born with a d1ck.  Honestly my theory which I said in the other thread is that I kinda have a feeling the coaches might not have even known when recruiting her.

[Strike 5,553]

Just now, TimHauck said:

Yeah that’s my point.  They didn’t think there was a safety issue until they found out she was born with a d1ck.  Honestly my theory which I said in the other thread is that I kinda have a feeling the coaches might not have even known when recruiting her.

This is your assertion but it's a flawed one.  If they did have safety concerns and she was a biological female there would nothing they could do about it.  At that point you just say "damn that chick is powerful" or whatever.  But once you find out she's actually a dude the narrative changes to "Now I know WHY she's so powerful."  There was a pro chick tennis player named Amelie Mauresmo.  She's an actual chick but a lot of the female tennis players compared her to dudes.  There was nothing they could do but I guaranfockingtee you if they found out she was actually a dude they wouldn't have been surprised. 

Of course, I've been TRYING to get you to understand that safety isn't the ONLY issue.  Why you're so focused on that one issue I'll never understand.  It's but ONE of SEVERAL issues people have with biological males in female sport. 

[TimHauck 2,876]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

This is your assertion but it's a flawed one.  If they did have safety concerns and she was a biological female there would nothing they could do about it.  At that point you just say "damn that chick is powerful" or whatever.  But once you find out she's actually a dude the narrative changes to "Now I know WHY she's so powerful."  There was a pro chick tennis player named Amelie Mauresmo.  She's an actual chick but a lot of the female tennis players compared her to dudes.  There was nothing they could do but I guaranfockingtee you if they found out she was actually a dude they wouldn't have been surprised. 

Of course, I've been TRYING to get you to understand that safety isn't the ONLY issue.  Why you're so focused on that one issue I'll never understand.  It's but ONE of SEVERAL issues people have with biological males in female sport. 

I never said safety was the only issue and I agree that it’s not (edit: although I’d say fairness and safety are really the 2 main reasons cited in general by far).  I said I don’t think it should be used as a reason in this specific case.  And in fact the AD of one of the schools that forfeited specifically said safety was not an issue.

[Mike Hunt 282]

Why have sex restrictions at all? 

Maybe the time has come to have "Open Sports"  if you can`t make it in the NBA try the WNBA. can`t make PGA try the LPGA. Why limit the number of bio-men who compete against bio-women to men who think they are women?

[jbycho 754]

5 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

Why have sex restrictions at all? 

Maybe the time has come to have "Open Sports"  if you can`t make it in the NBA try the WNBA. can`t make PGA try the LPGA. Why limit the number of bio-men who compete against bio-women to men who think they are women?

[RLLD 4,230]

17 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

Why have sex restrictions at all? 

Maybe the time has come to have "Open Sports"  if you can`t make it in the NBA try the WNBA. can`t make PGA try the LPGA. Why limit the number of bio-men who compete against bio-women to men who think they are women?

This would destroy womens sports.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

31 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

Why have sex restrictions at all? 

Maybe the time has come to have "Open Sports"  if you can`t make it in the NBA try the WNBA. can`t make PGA try the LPGA. Why limit the number of bio-men who compete against bio-women to men who think they are women?

Sure.  True equality which is what the feminists and far-left zealots have been pushing for, no?  Of course, this means women will never play ANY sports again but it is TRUE equality since a lot of them actually believe there are no differences between men and women at all.

I'm willing to be on board for that.  Let's see what those feminists and far-left zealots say after they're completely shut out. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

15 minutes ago, RLLD said:

This would destroy womens sports.

See my post above. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

20 hours ago, squistion said:

Um, you asked the same question of me once upon a time in the PSF.

So he would know, then.

[TimHauck 2,876]

2 hours ago, Mike Hunt said:

Why have sex restrictions at all? 

Maybe the time has come to have "Open Sports"  if you can`t make it in the NBA try the WNBA. can`t make PGA try the LPGA. Why limit the number of bio-men who compete against bio-women to men who think they are women?

@Strike, stupid comments like this are why I push back on certain aspects of these discussions while agreeing with the overall point that trans women shouldn’t play women’s sports.  A few trannies don’t mean the end of women’s sports.  The fact that the athlete in this story couldn’t even qualify her team for the NCAA tournament shows that’s not going to happen.  Lia Thomas is pretty much the only significantly accomplished trans woman in the history of NCAA D1, that was two years ago and pretty sure she wouldn’t be eligible under the current rules.

[Strike 5,553]

20 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

@Strike, stupid comments like this are why I push back on certain aspects of these discussions while agreeing with the overall point that trans women shouldn’t play women’s sports.  A few trannies don’t mean the end of women’s sports.  The fact that the athlete in this story couldn’t even qualify her team for the NCAA tournament shows that’s not going to happen.  Lia Thomas is pretty much the only significantly accomplished trans woman in the history of NCAA D1, that was two years ago and pretty sure she wouldn’t be eligible under the current rules.

You're wrong about this.  At least you've gotten past the "it's not happening" to "it's not widespread.".

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

22 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

@Strike, stupid comments like this are why I push back on certain aspects of these discussions while agreeing with the overall point that trans women shouldn’t play women’s sports.  A few trannies don’t mean the end of women’s sports.  The fact that the athlete in this story couldn’t even qualify her team for the NCAA tournament shows that’s not going to happen.  Lia Thomas is pretty much the only significantly accomplished trans woman in the history of NCAA D1, that was two years ago and pretty sure she wouldn’t be eligible under the current rules.

900 olympic medals have been stolen by dudes since they allowed trannies in the womens olympics

 

[TimHauck 2,876]

6 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

900 olympic medals have been stolen by dudes since they allowed trannies in the womens olympics

 

lol this is a lie

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

8 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

lol this is a lie

Female Athletes Lost almost 900 Medals to Trans-Identifying Men Worldwide, U.N. Report Finds

UN report reveals medals females lost to transgender rivals | Toronto Sun

sorry not olympics only

but its not happening enough for you to care

[TimHauck 2,876]

5 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Female Athletes Lost almost 900 Medals to Trans-Identifying Men Worldwide, U.N. Report Finds

UN report reveals medals females lost to transgender rivals | Toronto Sun

1.  They weren’t lost to transgenders, they were “lost” to actual men because there was no women’s category

2.  It wasn’t in the Olympics

I already debunked this stupid “story” when @Strike brought it up the first time (with the actual primary source), of course per usual he disappeared after being proven wrong multiple times

 

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

1.  They weren’t lost to transgenders, they were lost to actual men because there was no women’s category

2.  It wasn’t in the Olympics

I already debunked this stupid “story” when @Strike brought it up the first time (with the actual primary source), of course per usual he disappeared after being proven wrong multiple times

 

 

trannies are actually men

 

[TimHauck 2,876]

Just now, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

trannies are actually men

 

Well these medals weren’t lost to trannies.  Will you admit you were wrong?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Well these medals weren’t lost to trannies.  Will you admit you were wrong?

if you admit that trannies are taking sh1t from women, and I am against men in womens sports unlike you

 

[TimHauck 2,876]

2 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

if you admit that trannies are taking sh1t from women,

Already did

[Strike 5,553]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

I already debunked this stupid “story” when @Strike brought it up the first time (with the actual primary source), of course per usual he disappeared after being proven wrong multiple times

 

 

No you didn't.  As I did in that thread, I will post the relevant paragraph, IN IT'S ENTIRETY unlike you, and let reader's of this thread form their own conclusions:

Quote

Policies implemented by International Federations, national governing bodies, along
with national legislation of some countries, allow males who identify as women to compete
in female sports categories.28 In other cases, this practice is not explicitly prohibited and is
thus tolerated in practice. The replacement of the female sports category with a mixed sex
category has resulted in an increasing number of female athletes losing opportunities
including medals when competing against males. According to information received, by 30
March 2024, over 600 female athletes in more than 400 competitions have lost more than
890 medals in 29 different sports

 

[Nomad99 744]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

No you didn't.  As I did in that thread, I will post the relevant paragraph, IN IT'S ENTIRETY unlike you, and let reader's of this thread form their own conclusions:

 

The ENTIRETY of the relevant wording? You Bastage

[TimHauck 2,876]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

No you didn't.  As I did in that thread, I will post the relevant paragraph, IN IT'S ENTIRETY unlike you, and let reader's of this thread form their own conclusions:

 

One paragraph can include multiple thoughts. Only an idiot who read that would form the conclusion that the end of that paragraph is referring specifically to trannies.   In fact the citation clearly shows a distinction from the beginning of the paragraph to the end.  I’ll repeat part of the next post I made in that thread:

Yes, the paper (not a study as the article claims) is clearly against trans women participating in women’s sports, but it’s obvious that the numbers cited are referring to where women’s divisions were removed in favor of mixed gender.  Both to anyone that understands the English language, as well anyone that understands simple math.  It says over 890 medals were lost in over 400 competitions, which if this were only referring to medals lost to trannies, would mean that there was an average of more than 2 trannies medaling in each of the competitions.

[Strike 5,553]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

One paragraph can include multiple thoughts. Only an idiot who read that would form the conclusion that the end of that paragraph is referring specifically to trannies.   In fact the citation clearly shows a distinction from the beginning of the paragraph to the end.  I’ll repeat part of the next post I made in that thread:

Yes, the paper (not a study as the article claims) is clearly against trans women participating in women’s sports, but it’s obvious that the numbers cited are referring to where women’s divisions were removed in favor of mixed gender.  Both to anyone that understands the English language, as well anyone that understands simple math.  It says over 890 medals were lost in over 400 competitions, which if this were only referring to medals lost to trannies, would mean that there was an average of more than 2 trannies medaling in each of the competitions.

Whatever dude.  Unlike you I'm willing to let others form their own opinions based upon the quoted text, instead of trying to browbeat them in to believing what I want by posting incomplete paragraphs and TELLING them what to think. 

[TimHauck 2,876]

14 minutes ago, Strike said:

Whatever dude.  Unlike you I'm willing to let others form their own opinions based upon the quoted text, instead of trying to browbeat them in to believing what I want by posting incomplete paragraphs and TELLING them what to think. 

And as I said in that thread, it’s interesting to me that you whine about me “cherry-picking” by not including a sentence which contains a separate thought, when the article you first quoted did it even worse:

1) It also did not include that first sentence that you are yelling at me for not including here

2) It talks about the “nearly 900 medals” first, THEN the topic of mixed sex categories in a separate paragraph, when the actual paper clearly says the nearly 900 medals were FROM the mixed sex categories.

3) Worst of all, it added words that weren’t there!  It said “more than 600 biologically female athletes have lost at least 890 medals to transgender competitors,” when the actual paper did not say they were lost to transgender competitors.  
 

I’m not “forming an opinion,” it’s basic reading comprehension.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

15 hours ago, TimHauck said:

I never said safety was the only issue and I agree that it’s not (edit: although I’d say fairness and safety are really the 2 main reasons cited in general by far).  I said I don’t think it should be used as a reason in this specific case.  And in fact the AD of one of the schools that forfeited specifically said safety was not an issue.

Once again, going out of your way to take the stupid side of an argument.  Of course it’s a safety issue.

 

[Strike 5,553]

1 minute ago, Patented Phil said:

Once again, going out of your way to take the stupid side of an argument.  Of course it’s a safety issue.

 

He knows about that case.  He says safety "in general" is an issue but we haven't proven it in THIS case (SJSU). 

[TimHauck 2,876]

1 minute ago, Patented Phil said:

Once again, going out of your way to take the stupid side of an argument.  Of course it’s a safety issue.

 

What part of “this specific case” do you not understand?

[Patented Phil 1,469]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

What part of “this specific case” do you not understand?

And what part of “You’re a dumbasss” don’t you understand?  https://www.outkick.com/sports/sjsus-blaire-fleming-delivers-vicious-spike-sdsu-opponents-face-video

[TimHauck 2,876]

3 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

And what part of “You’re a dumbasss” don’t you understand?  https://www.outkick.com/sports/sjsus-blaire-fleming-delivers-vicious-spike-sdsu-opponents-face-video

That player never missed a play

[Patented Phil 1,469]

4 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

That player never missed a play

JFC you are dumb.

[TimHauck 2,876]

15 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

JFC you are dumb.

From what I’ve read it’s not uncommon for players to get hit like that.  If Fleming’s strength was any more than other players’ in the NCAA, then her stats would be much better.

Don’t take my word for it though, the Wyoming AD specifically said safety was not a reason they forfeited.  The only team I’ve seen mention safety is Nevada.  Most of the others just put out vague statements from what I’ve seen.   Which again seems odd to me and I hope it was actually the team’s decision.  I’m also curious if places like Outkick gave these schools NIL money encouraging them to forfeit

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

So Hackass isn’t Shonuff? Are we sure about that? This level of retardation has to be impossible to replicate. Squishy tries but comes up a tad bit short. 

[jerryskids 6,799]

4 hours ago, TimHauck said:

@Strike, stupid comments like this are why I push back on certain aspects of these discussions while agreeing with the overall point that trans women shouldn’t play women’s sports.  A few trannies don’t mean the end of women’s sports.  The fact that the athlete in this story couldn’t even qualify her team for the NCAA tournament shows that’s not going to happen.  Lia Thomas is pretty much the only significantly accomplished trans woman in the history of NCAA D1, that was two years ago and pretty sure she wouldn’t be eligible under the current rules.

The bolded is faulty logic, particularly in a team sport.  Heck, Aaron Judge could play on a bad HS baseball team and they would still lose most of the time (in this case, they would intentionally walk him).

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

That player never missed a play

More bad logic.  This is like saying if an NFL safety launches his helmet into a defenseless receiver's head, but the receiver stays in the game, he shouldn't be penalized.  "No harm, no foul" is a bad way to judge, which is why it isn't done.

There is also a slippery slope here.  If it's OK for this guy to play, when Karch Kiraly Jr. comes along, identifies as a girl, and starts caving in opponents' faces, the trans sports supporters will argue it's no different, she's just a little better is all.

This leaves us to legislate on a case by case basis based on some subjective, undefinable definition of when it becomes dangerous or non-competitive, which is unmanageable.  

And, if somehow we were to try that, we would be saying to the male athlete that they suck so bad that they can play.  Not exactly a confidence builder, as I hear is a reason to let trans women compete.

[TimHauck 2,876]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

The bolded is faulty logic, particularly in a team sport.  Heck, Aaron Judge could play on a bad HS baseball team and they would still lose most of the time (in this case, they would intentionally walk him).

More bad logic.  This is like saying if an NFL safety launches his helmet into a defenseless receiver's head, but the receiver stays in the game, he shouldn't be penalized.  "No harm, no foul" is a bad way to judge, which is why it isn't done.

There is also a slippery slope here.  If it's OK for this guy to play, when Karch Kiraly Jr. comes along, identifies as a girl, and starts caving in opponents' faces, the trans sports supporters will argue it's no different, she's just a little better is all.

This leaves us to legislate on a case by case basis based on some subjective, undefinable definition of when it becomes dangerous or non-competitive, which is unmanageable.  

And, if somehow we were to try that, we would be saying to the male athlete that they suck so bad that they can play.  Not exactly a confidence builder, as I hear is a reason to let trans women compete.

Wow, this post is riddled with strawman arguments and bad sports analogies. 

Baseball isn’t really comparable to volleyball.  For one there are 3 more players than in volleyball. Not perfect, but a better comparison is probably basketball.  Lebron James and a bunch of 10 year olds could qualify for the women’s NCAA tournament.

The play where the girl from SDSU got injured wasn’t a penalty, so that argument doesn’t make sense.  If you want to play semantics, sure, Fleming can present a safety issue.  The same way that any biological woman of similar ability to her (and there are many) can present a safety issue.

And once again, I don’t think it’s OK for her to play.  But IMO saying that she presents a safety issue shouldn’t be cited as a reason why.  My point in saying that she isn’t that good is in response to the “men are taking over women’s sports!” argument.  But that doesn’t mean she should be allowed to play, as fairness is the main reason she shouldn’t.  Even though she’s not that good by D1 standards, not many girls get the opportunity to play D1 and she is taking a scholarship away from someone else.

[Maximum Overkill 1,992]

3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

, I don’t think it’s OK for her to play.  But IMO saying that she presents a safety issue shouldn’t be cited as a reason why.

Who cares what the reasoning is? He shouldn't be playing Women's sports. Argument over 

[jerryskids 6,799]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

Wow, this post is riddled with strawman arguments and bad sports analogies. 

Baseball isn’t really comparable to volleyball.  For one there are 3 more players than in volleyball. Not perfect, but a better comparison is probably basketball.  Lebron James and a bunch of 10 year olds could qualify for the women’s NCAA tournament.

The play where the girl from SDSU got injured wasn’t a penalty, so that argument doesn’t make sense.  If you want to play semantics, sure, Fleming can present a safety issue.  The same way that any biological woman of similar ability to her (and there are many) can present a safety issue.

And once again, I don’t think it’s OK for her to play.  But IMO saying that she presents a safety issue shouldn’t be cited as a reason why.  My point in saying that she isn’t that good is in response to the “men are taking over women’s sports!” argument.  But that doesn’t mean she should be allowed to play, as fairness is the main reason she shouldn’t.  Even though she’s not that good by D1 standards, not many girls get the opportunity to play D1 and she is taking a scholarship away from someone else.

Your basketball analogy is dumb.  Yes, there are a closer number of players, but that's not important.  In basketball, the offense controls who has the ball every possession.  That's why LeBron and a box of rocks could qualify for the NCAA women's tourney.  That's not true in baseball, or volleyball.

Regarding the bolded, you clearly don't get my analogy.  My point is that you can't legislate solely on outcomes.  You legislate on behavior and the potential outcomes of such behavior.  

I feel bad pulling the yip yip card here given our earlier discussion, but... you might just want to take the L and bow out of this one.   

[TimHauck 2,876]

40 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Your basketball analogy is dumb.  Yes, there are a closer number of players, but that's not important.  In basketball, the offense controls who has the ball every possession.  That's why LeBron and a box of rocks could qualify for the NCAA women's tourney.  That's not true in baseball, or volleyball.

Regarding the bolded, you clearly don't get my analogy.  My point is that you can't legislate solely on outcomes.  You legislate on behavior and the potential outcomes of such behavior.  

I feel bad pulling the yip yip card here given our earlier discussion, but... you might just want to take the L and bow out of this one.   

The basketball analogy makes more sense than the baseball one.  Unless the other team was constantly getting aces by hitting it away from Fleming (who wasn’t really a defensive player anyway), then SJSU was going to be able to get the ball to her if they wanted to.  But if you insist, I’ll acknowledge that the fact that she could only muster up Honorable mention All Mountain West conference is better evidence that trannies aren’t going to take over women’s sports than the team not qualifying for the NCAA tournament.

I’m not saying to legislate on outcomes.  But when someone plays in a league for 3 years and her own teammates don’t even realize she’s a tranny, that’s pretty solid evidence that there wasn’t anything out of the ordinary  about her athletic abilities.  Heck, Slusser, the one suing over this, transferred to SJSU after Fleming was already on the team the prior year.  Surely she had seen some video of their matches.  She also played with Fleming in 2023 and yet by her own admission didn’t even realize she was a tranny until this season.

[Mike Hunt 282]

9 hours ago, TimHauck said:

@Strike, stupid comments like this are why I push back on certain aspects of these discussions while agreeing with the overall point that trans women shouldn’t play women’s sports.  A few trannies don’t mean the end of women’s sports.  The fact that the athlete in this story couldn’t even qualify her team for the NCAA tournament shows that’s not going to happen.  Lia Thomas is pretty much the only significantly accomplished trans woman in the history of NCAA D1, that was two years ago and pretty sure she wouldn’t be eligible under the current rules.

Do you have daughters? 

The number of trannies is irrelevant. If your daughter is impacted in wresting, swimming, track, or name the sport.

I have two girls under the age of 10 who love sports, I do not want them competing against males as they get older.  

People can identify to whatever they want and live their lives.  Reality is bio men are bio men.  

 

[TimHauck 2,876]

9 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

Do you have daughters? 

The number of trannies is irrelevant. If your daughter is impacted in wresting, swimming, track, or name the sport.

I have two girls under the age of 10 who love sports, I do not want them competing against males as they get older.  

People can identify to whatever they want and live their lives.  Reality is bio men are bio men.  

 

Weird that you would suggest getting rid of women’s sports altogether then

[Reality 3,121]

8 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

Do you have daughters? 

The number of trannies is irrelevant. If your daughter is impacted in wresting, swimming, track, or name the sport.

I have two girls under the age of 10 who love sports, I do not want them competing against males as they get older.  

People can identify to whatever they want and live their lives.  Reality is bio men are bio men.  

 

No normal person wants men in women sports. Anybody defending it is a piece of shlt and isn't worth the time it would take you to convince them that they are a piece of shlt.