Minnesota

[HellToupee 2,384]

5 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

35% approve of it.

If that number is true it’s very impressive considering the propaganda onslaught from the MSM

[Engorgeous George 2,370]

2 hours ago, Strike said:

So the agent Renee Good tried to slaughter with her car suffered internal bleeding, but hey he wasn't in danger AT ALL!!!!

https://x.com/CBSNews/status/2011466240527655076?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

I have suffered internal bleeding during my lifetime.  At the most serious end I had a punctured lung and another time a torn spleen.  On the insignificant end I had a bruise, a boo boo.  I am not taking any position here as I have no direct knowledge other than the video which while he was hit, or brushed, he was not knocked down or back.  I merely note the term "internal bleeding" is really offering no perspective, though it is meant to sound serious.  Who knows, maybe it was.  To my eyes the incident was, as I posted in the other original thread, little different than Ratso Rizzo getting nudged before he slammed the hood of the car and shouted "I'm walking here." 

[Engorgeous George 2,370]

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

This place is such a right wing echo chamber. 

amber amber amber

[Ron_Artest 2,760]

3 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I have suffered internal bleeding during my lifetime.  At the most serious end I had a punctured lung and another time a torn spleen.  On the insignificant end I had a bruise, a boo boo.  I am not taking any position here as I have no direct knowledge other than the video which while he was hit, or brushed, he was not knocked down or back.  I merrely note the term "internal bleeding" is really offering no perspective, though it is meant to sound serious.  Who knows, maybe it was.  To my eyes the incident was, as I posted in the other original thread, little different than Ratcso Rizzo getting nudge before he slammed the hood of the car and shouted "I'm walking here." 

I suffered internal bleeding one time when I was drunk wrestling with a fraternity brother in college and he slammed my leg into the couch.

[Engorgeous George 2,370]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

Is it too much to ask cops not to escalate this in the way they did? What danger was this lady creating.

We don't know.  Certainly she was a distraction.  Also, clearly her horn honking and shouting presented communication challenges for the Officers, as she clearly intended.  Could those factors have contributed to an extremely dangerous situation if an armed felon they were looking for (I have no idea who they were looking for, but I submit neither do any others.  Maybe it was a relatively innocuous person, but the deceased had no way of knowing that.) took advantage of those facts to flee or to fight?  Who knows?  I would just say the behavior was unwise and would be seen as counterproductive if those viewing it were not looking through a partisan lense.  Protest. but don't interfere.  Battle in the Courts, not the streets.  I know some think things have gone too far for my suggestions.  Maybe they have, but if they have we are in not just regular danger, but grave danger.

[Engorgeous George 2,370]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

I was just commenting on the discussion not implying you said she was attempting murder. 

This incident probably called for a nonpartisan investigation / review by people who know way more about police procedure than anyone at the GC.

35 year career prosecutor

20 year police legal advisor

15 years advising a joint local, state, and federal crime task force

15 years Assoc. Prof. Teaching Criminal Procedure and Constitutional Law

Adjuct Professor for 12 years teaching at FLETC 

2 Years as criminal defense attorney

[Engorgeous George 2,370]

44 minutes ago, Strike said:

ICE isn't terrorizing anything.  The only reason we even know this crap is going on is because activists are following them around and filming and harassing them.  Then, when that inflames tensions and something goes wrong as happened with Good, the activists and MSM make ICE the bad guy.  If you all just let them go about their business none of this crap would be happening, no one would even know ICE was doing anything, and lots of illegals would be vacating our country.  

Better yet, if the local authorities would honor the federal detainers on these folks when they are arrested locally and turn them over to the feds from the local jails in controlled environments none of this would be necessary.  Sadly, sanctuary policies contibute, highly, to these dangerous situations.

[seafoam1 3,586]

20 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I have suffered internal bleeding during my lifetime.  At the most serious end I had a punctured lung and another time a torn spleen.  On the insignificant end I had a bruise, a boo boo.  I am not taking any position here as I have no direct knowledge other than the video which while he was hit, or brushed, he was not knocked down or back.  I merrely note the term "internal bleeding" is really offering no perspective, though it is meant to sound serious.  Who knows, maybe it was.  To my eyes the incident was, as I posted in the other original thread, little different than Ratcso Rizzo getting nudge before he slammed the hood of the car and shouted "I'm walking here." 

I have had internal bleeding and almost died from it. What's your point? It's serious enough to need immediate attention even if it turns out to not be serious. 

[thegeneral 3,828]

12 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

We don't know.  Certainly she was a distraction.  Also, clearly her horn honking and shouting presented communication challenges for the Officers, as she clearly intended.  Could those factors have contributed to an extremely dangerous situation if an armed felon they were looking for (I have no idea who they were looking for, but I submit neither do any others.  Maybe it was a relatively innocuous person, but the deceased had no way of knowing that.) took advantage of those facts to flee or to fight?  Who knows?  I would just say the behavior was unwise and would be seen as counterproductive if those viewing it were not looking through a partisan lense.  Protest but don't interfer.  Battle in the Courts, not the streets.  I know some think things have gone too far for my suggestions.  Maybe they have, but if they have we are in not just regular danger, but grave danger.

I’m not buying the horn honking created a dangerous situation. I don’t believe they were actively arresting anyone, I thought the story was they were stuck. Originally it was said she was blocking the road but we can see that wasn’t the case as more details came out.

I agree the behavior is unwise and there are quite a few instances I have seen that are way over the line.

Recording these cops is useful however as we know they have a malleable relationship with the truth.

[LaChup 283]

Horn honking might not be a dangerous situation, but attempting to block/trap agents with vehicles and then run them over is. Not to mention Stage V TDS. Dare to Keep Kids Off Libtarded Ideology

[MDC 8,264]

34 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

35 year career prosecutor

20 year police legal advisor

15 years advising a joint local, state, and federal crime task force

15 years Assoc. Prof. Teaching Criminal Procedure and Constitutional Law

Adjuct Professor for 12 years teaching at FLETC 

2 Years as criminal defense attorney

Had no idea.

Well, what do you see? Were the agents’ actions needed and well executed? Did the woman try to run the Ice agent over? Was the shooting justified? Do Ice have blanket immunity?

[Engorgeous George 2,370]

8 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

I’m not buying the horn honking created a dangerous situation. Effective communication is extremely important between officers in the field.  If they cannot hear one another, if they cannot hear the laswful orders their cohorts are givning persons of interest there can be dangerous miscommunication.I don’t believe they were actively arresting anyone, Depending on the definition of "active" I agree.  They were not then and there placing their hands on a wanted person.  Of course they were on that block for a reason.  Otherwise they would have been at a donut shop. I thought the story was they were stuck. That was the story as first reported.  Was it the official report or a reporters summary or Kristi Noems summary after she was given a verbal summary.  When I first heard it I pictured them stuck in a snow bank trying to push the vehicle out.  Of course i have used the word "stuck" when I am delayed in traffic.  I might text my wife I am stuck in traffic.  Her blocking that through lane could have been expressed by them as they were stuck.  Language, I have found, is an inexact and sometimes misleading thing.  It could be in this case that there was the perfidy you seem to believe existed, or that there was inexact communication.  I take no position as I would have no way of knowing.Originally it was said she was blocking the road but we can see that wasn’t the case as more details came out. I would ahve expressed what she ws doing as impeding traffic flow by blocking one of two through lanes.

I agree the behavior is unwise and there are quite a few instances I have seen that are way over the line.

Recording these cops is useful however as we know they have a malleable relationship with the truth. Law enforcement should never fear recoxrding of their activities from a safe distance and subsequent review of their actions.  They should welcome it.

 

[Engorgeous George 2,370]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

Had no idea.

Well, what do you see? Were the agents’ actions needed and well executed? Did the woman try to run the Ice agent over? Was the shooting justified? Do Ice have blanket immunity?

If the original thread could be recovered my thoughts are in there.

[seafoam1 3,586]

34 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

We don't know.  Certainly she was a distraction.  Also, clearly her horn honking and shouting presented communication challenges for the Officers, as she clearly intended.  Could those factors have contributed to an extremely dangerous situation if an armed felon they were looking for (I have no idea who they were looking for, but I submit neither do any others.  Maybe it was a relatively innocuous person, but the deceased had no way of knowing that.) took advantage of those facts to flee or to fight?  Who knows?  I would just say the behavior was unwise and would be seen as counterproductive if those viewing it were not looking through a partisan lense.  Protest. but don't interfere.  Battle in the Courts, not the streets.  I know some think things have gone too far for my suggestions.  Maybe they have, but if they have we are in not just regular danger, but grave danger.

You should really take a class in how to be able to make a point without needing to write an essay that includes a ton of other words that are not needed. 

[seafoam1 3,586]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

 

Maybe this will help. 

 

Certificate in Professional Writing from the University of Pennsylvania immerses you in a series of concepts and practical applications that provide an accelerated understanding of the subtle aspects of communication in a professional environment.

[seafoam1 3,586]

3 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

If the original thread could be recovered my thoughts are in there.

Much better. 

[thegeneral 3,828]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

 

For some reason it won’t quote that. Much of what you typed is why I wouldn’t think the cop will be charged.

The last part about recording is what this administration doesn’t want. These people are taking it upon themselves to do that. It a perfect scenario this would be problematic. Under the situation they are putting these cops into it’s a recipe for disaster. 

[thegeneral 3,828]

15 minutes ago, LaChup said:

Horn honking might not be a dangerous situation, but attempting to block/trap agents with vehicles and then run them over is. Not to mention Stage V TDS. Dare to Keep Kids Off Libtarded Ideology

She wasn’t blocking or trapping them. Cars are clearly driving by.

Once she started accelerating towards the cop she was in trouble. That it got to that is absurd.

[dogcows 1,439]

1 hour ago, cyclone24 said:

You all just live on a completely different planet. I’m OK not being anywhere near.

But here you are. You know you like it…

[LaChup 283]

"Minnesota Democrats decide which victims matter based on politics and optics, not on equal application of the law. When a tragedy fits their narrative, we get press conferences and performative vigils. When Minnesotans are killed in situations tied to their failed federal immigration policy, we hear almost nothing — no urgency, no accountability, just silence and deflection."

[jerryskids 7,269]

1 hour ago, Ron_Artest said:

I understand reaction times just fine.  I don't even know what you're trying to say you're all twisted up.  You're spewing nonsense.  Try harder.

In baseball, does a batter wait until the ball crosses home plate to decide to swing? Of course not, because it takes time for that message to get to the necessary muscles, and for those muscles to fire and move as instructed.  In your world, one devoid of such knowledge, you think the batter instantly decides and swings.

The point being, it takes a non-zero amount of time to identify the need shoot, aim the gun, and as a bonus jump out of the way of a 5000 lb weapon in parallel.

47 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

We don't know.  Certainly she was a distraction.  Also, clearly her horn honking and shouting presented communication challenges for the Officers, as she clearly intended.  Could those factors have contributed to an extremely dangerous situation if an armed felon they were looking for (I have no idea who they were looking for, but I submit neither do any others.  Maybe it was a relatively innocuous person, but the deceased had no way of knowing that.) took advantage of those facts to flee or to fight?  Who knows?  I would just say the behavior was unwise and would be seen as counterproductive if those viewing it were not looking through a partisan lense.  Protest but don't interfer.  Battle in the Courts, not the streets.  I know some think things have gone too far for my suggestions.  Maybe they have, but if they have we are in not just regular danger, but grave danger.

This is a great point which you've already hashed out some with @thegeneral; I'll just add that this applies to every video we see of people riding their horns and impeding traffic.  And to the repeated assertion by thegeneral that it "didn't block traffic" -- while vehicles could get around her, it certainly impeded the flow of traffic, which could have created a dangerous situation.

[jerryskids 7,269]

2 hours ago, MDC said:

I was just commenting on the discussion not implying you said she was attempting murder. 

This incident probably called for a nonpartisan investigation / review by people who know way more about police procedure than anyone at the GC.

I agree that, at a minimum, there should be internal reviews of the procedures followed (or not followed) and corrective actions taken in training, procedures, etc. as indicated.  The fact that this situation escalated to somebody's death indicates the need for such a review.  

[cyclone24 1,970]

12 minutes ago, dogcows said:

But here you are. You know you like it…

Save the big booty latinas…..deal?  

[thegeneral 3,828]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

In baseball, does a batter wait until the ball crosses home plate to decide to swing? Of course not, because it takes time for that message to get to the necessary muscles, and for those muscles to fire and move as instructed.  In your world, one devoid of such knowledge, you think the batter instantly decides and swings.

The point being, it takes a non-zero amount of time to identify the need shoot, aim the gun, and as a bonus jump out of the way of a 5000 lb weapon in parallel.

This is a great point which you've already hashed out some with @thegeneral; I'll just add that this applies to every video we see of people riding their horns and impeding traffic.  And to the repeated assertion by thegeneral that it "didn't block traffic" -- while vehicles could get around her, it certainly impeded the flow of traffic, which could have created a dangerous situation.

My point is these cops amplified the danger in this situation. It was bad work. If I had to guess they got upset and put on tilt by the whole situation. They stood in front of a running car while another cop runs to open the driver’s door. That is piss poor for what I see as a car in the road.

We will never know exactly why she chose to drive with 100% certainty, like we will never know the intent of the shooter. 

 

[Ron_Artest 2,760]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

In baseball, does a batter wait until the ball crosses home plate to decide to swing? Of course not, because it takes time for that message to get to the necessary muscles, and for those muscles to fire and move as instructed.  In your world, one devoid of such knowledge, you think the batter instantly decides and swings.

The point being, it takes a non-zero amount of time to identify the need shoot, aim the gun, and as a bonus jump out of the way of a 5000 lb weapon in parallel.

Terrible analogy.  It takes much longer to swing a bat than it does to pull a trigger.

Are you trying to say that he decided to pull the trigger when he was standing in front of the vehicle but only was actually able to pull the trigger once he was on the side of the vehicle?

We've gotten way off on the ridiculous side of he argument.

[seafoam1 3,586]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

My point is stupid.

 

Agreed.

[Hawkeye21 2,464]

The woman was an idiot who put herself in a dumb situation but she did not deserve to die.  The officer did not need to fire at her but he never should've had to make that decision in the first place.  This is on the woman for making terrible decisions.  It's a terrible situation but at some point people need to start accepting responsibilities for their actions.

[Hawkeye21 2,464]

10 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I agree that, at a minimum, there should be internal reviews of the procedures followed (or not followed) and corrective actions taken in training, procedures, etc. as indicated.  The fact that this situation escalated to somebody's death indicates the need for such a review.  

I think the general public is need for a review as well.  Everyone should know how to properly act around officers.  They should know how to peacefully protest.  Everyone should know their rights, not what they think are their rights or what some social media group told them.  People should know what law enforcement are legally allowed to do as well.

Way too many stupid people out there doing whatever they think they can do without consequences. 

[squistion 2,710]

Future voters  and they won't forget:

 

[dogcows 1,439]

13 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Save the big booty latinas…..deal?  

All yours…

[dogcows 1,439]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The woman was an idiot who put herself in a dumb situation but she did not deserve to die.  The officer did not need to fire at her but he never should've had to make that decision in the first place.  This is on the woman for making terrible decisions.  It's a terrible situation but at some point people need to start accepting responsibilities for their actions.

How can you say somebody who is dead didn’t take “responsibility” for their actions? 

The question is, will the man who pulled the trigger accept responsibility for HIS actions?

[dogcows 1,439]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I think the general public is need for a review as well.  Everyone should know how to properly act around officers.  They should know how to peacefully protest.  Everyone should know their rights, not what they think are their rights or what some social media group told them.  People should know what law enforcement are legally allowed to do as well.

Way too many stupid people out there doing whatever they think they can do without consequences. 

Or, maybe the officers should learn how to do their jobs without endangering citizens. That’s what we pay them for. They get paid to receive training on this kind of thing. Feels like either they aren’t getting enough training or the training itself is highly ineffective.

If we can’t train paid officers, how do you plan to train the public at large?

[Hawkeye21 2,464]

Just now, dogcows said:

How can you say somebody who is dead didn’t take “responsibility” for their actions? 

The question is, will the man who pulled the trigger accept responsibility for HIS actions?

I'm referring more to the people who are not accepting that she was responsible for her actions.  They all blame it on the officer.  She's the one who put herself in that situation and she's the one who forced him to make that decision.  Why put someone with a gun in the that situation?  Is that smart?

[Hawkeye21 2,464]

2 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Or, maybe the officers should learn how to do their jobs without endangering citizens. That’s what we pay them for. They get paid to receive training on this kind of thing. Feels like either they aren’t getting enough training or the training itself is highly ineffective.

If we can’t train paid officers, how do you plan to train the public at large?

You are one of the people passing the responsibility onto someone else.

As for training officers, I'm all for it.  I believe MN is a state that favored defunding the police though.  Also, it doesn't matter how trained someone is as long as there is a human element.  The most experienced people in every profession still make mistakes, especially when under extreme pressure.

[jerryskids 7,269]

7 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Terrible analogy.  It takes much longer to swing a bat than it does to pull a trigger.

Are you trying to say that he decided to pull the trigger when he was standing in front of the vehicle but only was actually able to pull the trigger once he was on the side of the vehicle?

We've gotten way off on the ridiculous side of he argument.

Quote

amount of time to identify the need shoot, aim the gun, and as a bonus jump out of the way of a 5000 lb weapon in parallel.

RIF.

Also, "pull a trigger" shows again a lack of understanding athletics.  Back to the baseball swing:

Quote

A professional baseball player's swing takes roughly 150 milliseconds (0.15 seconds) to complete from initiation to contact, but the entire process – from seeing the pitch to deciding and swinging – happens incredibly fast, often within the 400-600 milliseconds it takes a fastball or curveball to reach the plate, leaving only milliseconds to analyze and commit. Elite players rely on finely tuned timing and prediction to coordinate their short, fast swing with the ball's arrival, a feat requiring immense practice. 

The Timeline of a Swing

1. Pitch Recognition (Brain): About 100 milliseconds for the eyes and brain to form an initial picture of the ball.
2. Decision (Brain): A tiny window (50-125ms) to decide to swing and analyze the pitch's path.
3. Signal to Body (Brain to Muscles): Around 25 milliseconds for the brain's signal to reach the muscles.
4. The Swing (Muscles to Contact): Approximately 150 milliseconds for the body to execute the powerful, coordinated movement. 

Note that more than 1/2 of the time is in the recognition, decision, and signaling, vs. the actual swing, which is quite fast at the pro level.

Anyway, you don't get it, carry on.

[Ron_Artest 2,760]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

RIF.

Also, "pull a trigger" shows again a lack of understanding athletics.  Back to the baseball swing:

Note that more than 1/2 of the time is in the recognition, decision, and signaling, vs. the actual swing, which is quite fast at the pro level.

Anyway, you don't get it, carry on.

So you're saying the agent was swinging a bat?

[jerryskids 7,269]

6 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Or, maybe the officers should learn how to do their jobs without endangering citizens. That’s what we pay them for. They get paid to receive training on this kind of thing. Feels like either they aren’t getting enough training or the training itself is highly ineffective.

If we can’t train paid officers, how do you plan to train the public at large?

What if the outcome of that analysis is that the moment a person intentionally impedes traffic, compromises communications and safety through horns, or otherwise jeopardizes an operation, they are cuffed and arrested?

[jerryskids 7,269]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

So you're saying the agent was swinging a bat?

smh

[cyclone24 1,970]

14 minutes ago, dogcows said:

All yours…

See…compromise hah

[dogcows 1,439]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

What if the outcome of that analysis is that the moment a person intentionally impedes traffic, compromises communications and safety through horns, or otherwise jeopardizes an operation, they are cuffed and arrested?

Then the training would be an abject failure. Good police know how to de-escalate. I’ve seen it work numerous times. This was very obviously a rapid and unnecessary escalation. Well-trained police would know that.