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The Real timschochet

If liberal politics causes more crime, then explain this:

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3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If it isn’t possible doesn’t that suggest that we do not live in a society with equal opportunity for all? 

no it means we live in a society that there are only 13% blacks and 55% whites, that means its easier to form enclaves based on the white %

logic isn't a strong suit for you, when you see every comment as its based on racism

every black in America has a chance to move into upper class neighbors, just as any other race

 

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6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

According to the U.S. Census Bureau in 2023, there are 37 million Americans who live in poverty. That’s 11% of the population. Would you say that’s very little? 
 

In comparison Denmark has a poverty rate of 0.8% 

I don’t accept their version of poverty. No one goes hungry in this country.  We have fat, well dressed poor people that get a free education, housing and healthcare.  You show me the 37 million people without access to those things. Maybe they don’t have id’s? 

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20 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Same question for you as @iam90sbaby: suppose it was 100% black but same economic conditions: would it be a high violent crime area? 

I googled "black crime rates still high when income is equalized"

First sentence of AI overview.

"Black crime rates remain higher than white crime rates even when accounting for income differences, according to sociological studies."

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5 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

I googled "black crime rates still high when income is equalized"

First sentence of AI overview.

"Black crime rates remain higher than white crime rates even when accounting for income differences, according to sociological studies."

thats probably racist or something

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52 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The point is this: 

1. Liberal policies do not increase crime. 
2. Conservative polices do not decrease crime. 
3. We can argue the details over which specific policy makes more sense but there is no liberal or conservative “solution” to crime; the factors behind crime are bigger than either liberal or conservative politics. 

1-Liberal policies and liberal judges, civil and criminal, increased ten fold

2-Conservative policies and conservative judges, civil, and criminal. There’s a reason why DA don’t waste their time trying to convict them with liberal jury’s

3-We can argue over the details. And it is liberal vs conservative politics. Jail them. Build more jails. Teacher them they can’t rob, steal, rape, murder, constantly break the law

4-Raise your fawking kids right. Ever notice how in bad neighborhoods the good kids have a strong mother and or father?

Read a book and learn 

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13 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

I googled "black crime rates still high when income is equalized"

First sentence of AI overview.

"Black crime rates remain higher than white crime rates even when accounting for income differences, according to sociological studies."

All right sir. You don’t strike me as racist like @iam90sbaby. Perhaps I’m wrong about that (I hope not.) My own theory is that this is due to cultural problems among blacks caused by years of institutional racism against them. I suspect that as a conservative you disagree with this theory? I’d so, how do you explain the discrepancy? 

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2 minutes ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

1-Liberal policies and liberal judges, civil and criminal, increased ten fold

2-Conservative policies and conservative judges, civil, and criminal. There’s a reason why DA don’t waste their time trying to convict them with liberal jury’s

3-We can argue over the details. And it is liberal vs conservative politics. Jail them. Build more jails. Teacher them they can’t rob, steal, rape, murder, constantly break the law

4-Raise your fawking kids right. Ever notice how in bad neighborhoods the good kids have a strong mother and or father?

Read a book and learn 

I’ve read a lot of books on this subject, the majority of them disagree rather strongly with your point of view here. 

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3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

All right sir. You don’t strike me as racist like @iam90sbaby. Perhaps I’m wrong about that (I hope not.) My own theory is that this is due to cultural problems among blacks caused by years of institutional racism against them. I suspect that as a conservative you disagree with this theory? I’d so, how do you explain the discrepancy? 

It’s not institutional racism. It’s liberal policy that destroyed the black family. Thank Lyndon Johnson for that 

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4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve read a lot of books on this subject, the majority of them disagree rather strongly with your point of view here. 

You don’t read a lot of books on it.  You read a lot of liberal books. Talk to black men who believe in personal responsibility. Guys like Larry elder, Ben Carson  of course they are just uncle toms as how can they be part of the racist gop. 

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Real Tim has never seen real poverty in his life. Instead of going to some resort on your next vacation, get a real education and go to a country where people are actually living in poverty and report back.  You’ll never say the US has a poverty problem again.  

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1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

You don’t read a lot of books on it.  You read a lot of liberal books. Talk to black men who believe in personal responsibility. Guys like Larry elder, Ben Carson  of course they are just uncle toms as how can they be part of the racist gop. 

Very familiar with Larry Elder- I’ve read a few books by him too, and I used to call him now and then back in the 90s. When he was more libertarian and less of a Trumper, when he was the Sage from South Compton. Nice guy. But I disagree strongly with his POV on this subject. 
 

Carson I only know from his association with Trump. 

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6 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

It’s not institutional racism. It’s liberal policy that destroyed the black family. Thank Lyndon Johnson for that 

He’s right for once but it’s a total self own because the institutions causing racism in black communities are totally run by leftists. 

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Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Very familiar with Larry Elder- I’ve read a few books by him too, and I used to call him now and then back in the 90s. When he was more libertarian and less of a Trumper, when he was the Sage from South Compton. Nice guy. But I disagree strongly with his POV on this subject. 
 

Carson I only know from his association with Trump. 

What don’t you agree with elder on? And why would you think you know better than a man who has lived the experience?  He’s still a libertarian. But us libertarians were given no choice. Democrats put up zero candidate. Libertarians put up a blm supporter. Therefore it’s Trump. 

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1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Real Tim has never seen real poverty in his life. Instead of going to some resort on your next vacation, get a real education and go to a country where people are actually living in poverty and report back.  You’ll never say the US has a poverty problem again.  

You’re very patronizing. Poverty in different countries is relative to the rest of society. If people don’t have enough to feed their children without help I call that poverty. Is it the equivalent of poverty in Bangladesh? No. But it also isn’t Denmark either. 

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1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

What don’t you agree with elder on? And why would you think you know better than a man who has lived the experience?  He’s still a libertarian. But us libertarians were given no choice. Democrats put up zero candidate. Libertarians put up a blm supporter. Therefore it’s Trump. 

This deserves a much longer answer than I have time for. I’ll get back to it later. (I almost wrote “I’ll circle back to it later which is a term my daughters always use and I hate- lol- what does “circle  back even mean??) 

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1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

You’re very patronizing. Poverty in different countries is relative to the rest of society. If people don’t have enough to feed their children without help I call that poverty. Is it the equivalent of poverty in Bangladesh? No. But it also isn’t Denmark either. 

Denmark has very little to no diversity. Why are you holding them up as an example? 

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Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve read a lot of books on this subject, the majority of them disagree rather strongly with your point of view here. 

 You and I must read different books and opinions on the matter. I read both sides though. Know your adversaries. 

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13 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

It’s not institutional racism. It’s liberal policy that destroyed the black family. Thank Lyndon Johnson for that 

 Johnson built more projects and section housing than any other president in his first term, which he didn’t earn. People in different cities other than mine, laugh and say that’s the project Howard Johnson didn’t build.

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8 minutes ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 Johnson built more projects and section housing than any other president in his first term, which he didn’t earn. People in different cities other than mine, laugh and say that’s the project Howard Johnson didn’t build.

Not to mention he’d have those N***** voting blue for 200 years with his welfare program 

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2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Laguna Beach is one of the safest cities on Earth: 

https://ktla.com/news/this-orange-county-coastal-city-named-lowest-for-violent-crime-rate/amp/

Now any one who’s been there knows that Laguna Beach is INCREDIBLY liberal, a bastion of woke in conservative Orange County. So why is it so safe?

Answer: it is also an incredibly wealthy area, very expensive to live there. And here is the REAL story: wealthy areas are the safe areas. Crime, especially violent crime, is caused by poverty. Specifically urban poverty. Liberal politics have nothing to do with it. 

Hahahah. 

This is THE biggest load of 💩 I've ever seen you post here. And you post a LOT of 💩

Focking nepo baby. 

 

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4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

All right sir. You don’t strike me as racist like @iam90sbaby. Perhaps I’m wrong about that (I hope not.) My own theory is that this is due to cultural problems among blacks caused by years of institutional racism against them. I suspect that as a conservative you disagree with this theory? I’d so, how do you explain the discrepancy? 

I dont disagree entirely with those things. I mean I think that contributes a bit to some home ownership rates and some other things. 

This is obviously a difficult topic and unfortunately people usually want to make racism accusations so they view discussions in the worst light possible. 

On a micro level I think a big reason why crime rates stay higher even when equalized for income is an association issue. I will never forget when a black family moved in two houses down the street from me. The parents were super nice. Nurse and a COO of a midsized company. The kids sucked. The kids friends sucked worse. 

Now this is anecdotal, but if you google "second generation black wealth back to normal crime rates." You will see it says "A central aspect of Black wealth is that its accumulation does not reliably correlate with reduced crime rates in the same way as it does for white wealth. In fact, studies show that affluent Black youth are more likely to be incarcerated than poor white youth."

I believe black teens have an identity issue. If you lined up asian teens, white teens, and black teens and somehow could make them like hollow man and you could only see clothes and posture, you would be able to pick out the black teens with a decent level of accuracy and the other teens would be more of a random thing. 

Black teens feel the need to be black. Subsequently it forces them to often have reactionary personalities instead of being authentic. There is unfortunately an often self created narrow version of "blackness" they feel the need to live up to. Google "narrow version of blackness" and you will see I am not just making that up. There are several references to internal factors not just the view from external. 

Visit a busy area in the ghetto and watch black kids cross the street. They often walk the same, are all dressed the same, and often slow down when a car is approaching. They make fun of the kid that speeds up to gtfo of the road. 

These kinds of things can lead to a degredation of manners. Poor behavior often races to the front. 

They are less likely than their parents to form bonds to the community. Their parents and them become very different. Parents can feel like their kids are pissing away opportunities. This now worsens the identity crisis and crime can be the next byproduct. 

I think the mistake the parents make here is to have allowed the narrow view of blackness to have taken any hold at all. To have humored the idea that a black identity is a good thing to have, or even a necessary thing rather than pushing their kid to just have their own identity, but obviously with the guardrails that a parent should impose.

So many things are cliches and stereotypes in these discussions, but if you look at the example of the way young black males wear their jeans the whole thing is preposterous. 

1. It is objectively stupid to wear your pants that way.

2. It is horribly inefficient from a pure time perspective.

3. It is associated with blackness(particularly from the black perspective).

4. It is considered racist to point this out. 

I mean think about it. We let it get to the point in America where black teens walk around pulling their pants up every 22 seconds and somehow it is something that teachers, pastors, coaches, and even their own parents are supposed to stfu about because it is part of the black identity. 

None of this is the end all be all of anything. Just some factors of many that partially explain why affluent black kids have some struggles that really are unique to them as a whole. 

 

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“Reactionary personalities” = quick twitch 

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22 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

I dont disagree entirely with those things. I mean I think that contributes a bit to some home ownership rates and some other things. 

This is obviously a difficult topic and unfortunately people usually want to make racism accusations so they view discussions in the worst light possible. 

On a micro level I think a big reason why crime rates stay higher even when equalized for income is an association issue. I will never forget when a black family moved in two houses down the street from me. The parents were super nice. Nurse and a COO of a midsized company. The kids sucked. The kids friends sucked worse. 

Now this is anecdotal, but if you google "second generation black wealth back to normal crime rates." You will see it says "A central aspect of Black wealth is that its accumulation does not reliably correlate with reduced crime rates in the same way as it does for white wealth. In fact, studies show that affluent Black youth are more likely to be incarcerated than poor white youth."

I believe black teens have an identity issue. If you lined up asian teens, white teens, and black teens and somehow could make them like hollow man and you could only see clothes and posture, you would be able to pick out the black teens with a decent level of accuracy and the other teens would be more of a random thing. 

Black teens feel the need to be black. Subsequently it forces them to often have reactionary personalities instead of being authentic. There is unfortunately an often self created narrow version of "blackness" they feel the need to live up to. Google "narrow version of blackness" and you will see I am not just making that up. There are several references to internal factors not just the view from external. 

Visit a busy area in the ghetto and watch black kids cross the street. They often walk the same, are all dressed the same, and often slow down when a car is approaching. They make fun of the kid that speeds up to gtfo of the road. 

These kinds of things can lead to a degredation of manners. Poor behavior often races to the front. 

They are less likely than their parents to form bonds to the community. Their parents and them become very different. Parents can feel like their kids are pissing away opportunities. This now worsens the identity crisis and crime can be the next byproduct. 

I think the mistake the parents make here is to have allowed the narrow view of blackness to have taken any hold at all. To have humored the idea that a black identity is a good thing to have, or even a necessary thing rather than pushing their kid to just have their own identity, but obviously with the guardrails that a parent should impose.

So many things are cliches and stereotypes in these discussions, but if you look at the example of the way young black males wear their jeans the whole thing is preposterous. 

1. It is objectively stupid to wear your pants that way.

2. It is horribly inefficient from a pure time perspective.

3. It is associated with blackness(particularly from the black perspective).

4. It is considered racist to point this out. 

I mean think about it. We let it get to the point in America where black teens walk around pulling their pants up every 22 seconds and somehow it is something that teachers, pastors, coaches, and even their own parents are supposed to stfu about because it is part of the black identity. 

None of this is the end all be all of anything. Just some factors of many that partially explain why affluent black kids have some struggles that really are unique to them as a whole. 

 

I think this is a good, thoughtful post. I appreciate it. 

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3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

All right sir. You don’t strike me as racist like @iam90sbaby. Perhaps I’m wrong about that (I hope not.) My own theory is that this is due to cultural problems among blacks caused by years of institutional racism against them. I suspect that as a conservative you disagree with this theory? I’d so, how do you explain the discrepancy? 

Yes, you’re right.  Cultural problems.  Black culture resists whiteness. It’s just the way it is.  This isn’t me saying it, it’s countless black people I’ve talked to over my career who have decided to chart their own path and not absorb the negativity around them. I see it almost every day of my life in some of the most dangerous and poverty stricken hoods in the country. That same whiteness is what established Western cultural norms. When anyone decides to resist cultural norms, you’re limiting your ability to succeed. Sadly, we kept black people from educating themselves for decades.  Now, they refuse to conform to white education out of spite. Black schools woefully underperform because they choose to. This has literally played out on numerous episodes of Diff’rent Strokes as Willis and Arnold wrestled with losing their “blackness” when moving to Park Ave.  It’s not rocket math. It’s just the way it is. 

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25 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Yes, you’re right.  Cultural problems.  Black culture resists whiteness. It’s just the way it is.  This isn’t me saying it, it’s countless black people I’ve talked to over my career who have decided to chart their own path and not absorb the negativity around them. I see it almost every day of my life in some of the most dangerous and poverty stricken hoods in the country. That same whiteness is what established Western cultural norms. When anyone decides to resist cultural norms, you’re limiting your ability to succeed. Sadly, we kept black people from educating themselves for decades.  Now, they refuse to conform to white education out of spite. Black schools woefully underperform because they choose to. This has literally played out on numerous episodes of Diff’rent Strokes as Willis and Arnold wrestled with losing their “blackness” when moving to Park Ave.  It’s not rocket math. It’s just the way it is. 

I think this is a good post too. I don’t agree with all of it, and I don’t agree with @jonnyutah either. But you’ve both made some thoughtful arguments here and I appreciate the good discussion which is often sorely lacking in this forum. 

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5 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Do you believe that if it was 80% black but with the same economic conditions (highly wealthy) it would be high violent crime? 

It's not 🚫 

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I keep hearing people say there are crazies on both side. Both extremists left and right.

Who commits the most crime and the most damage when gathering in large groups to protest? It overwhelmingly leans one side.

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9 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

I keep hearing people say there are crazies on both side. Both extremists left and right.

Who commits the most crime and the most damage when gathering in large groups to protest? It overwhelmingly leans one side.

These studies are such junk regarding this. Saw one where they counted ashley babbitt getting killed as a right wing violence death.  Same with comperatore. But the people that died from buildings being burned or the Rittenhouse shootings didnt count as left wing. 

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