For all you Iraq war supporters

[torridjoe 48]

I would argue that Christianity is a religious system, not a political one. That's probably another huge difference. Islam merges "church and state" so to speak.

 

To answer your real point, Bush has personal responsibilities as an individual Christian, and I have no idea how he is doing on that front. I'd venture to guess pretty well.

 

He also has responsibilities as the President of US. Those responsibilities are related to the Constitution, not the Bible verse he heard in Sunday School.

 

There are verses of Scripture which do relate to political realities, though. Specifically, the Bible speaks of nations who bless Israel being blessed, and those who curse Israel being cursed. But other than that, I actually support in general "separation of Church and State" on principle. That probably shocks you.

 

Christianity merged church and state for more than a thousand years--and they're still working on it in this country and others. Heck, there's currently a country that is nothing BUT a Christian church! On the other hand, there are several secular Islamic countries. Iraq USED to be one of them.

 

If Bush really is a Christian, either the Bible is a complete lie or he is going straight to hell. Be serious--"doing pretty well." I can't think of a less Christian president in my lifetime.

 

I'm not shocked you'd support separation. It's as beneficial to the church as it is to government, these days.

[Rude Rick 0]

If Bush really is a Christian, either the Bible is a complete lie or he is going straight to hell. Be serious--"doing pretty well." I can't think of a less Christian president in my lifetime.

 

[SUXBNME 1,633]

 

You are not very bright, are you?

[gocolts 300]

You are not very bright, are you?

 

Bingo

[torridjoe 48]

You are not very bright, are you?

 

Certainly unoriginal. The last of the liberal dittoheads...

[SUXBNME 1,633]

Certainly unoriginal. The last of the liberal dittoheads...

Well, he's not

[TyCobb 0]

Christianity merged church and state for more than a thousand years--and they're still working on it in this country and others. Heck, there's currently a country that is nothing BUT a Christian church! On the other hand, there are several secular Islamic countries. Iraq USED to be one of them.

 

I'm not talking about the Catholic Church. I'm talking about the evangelical Church which takes the Bible seriously.

 

If Bush really is a Christian, either the Bible is a complete lie or he is going straight to hell. Be serious--"doing pretty well." I can't think of a less Christian president in my lifetime.

 

Why do you say he is going to hell if the Bible is true?

 

I'm not shocked you'd support separation. It's as beneficial to the church as it is to government, these days.

 

I don't support separation for any tax benefit it provides the Church, if that's what you mean. I support it because the country and the Church have two separate and distinct purposes / missions.

[Q.Lazzarus 0]

I'm not talking about the Catholic Church. I'm talking about the evangelical Church which takes the Bible seriously.

 

 

Isn't that an oxymoron? Bible and serious.

[Rude Rick 0]

Isn't that an oxymoron? Bible and serious.

[TyCobb 0]

Isn't that an oxymoron? Bible and serious.

 

Yes, for some. Not for me.

[fastfish 0]

Yes, for some. Not for me.

 

and not for me..

 

and not for the multitudes who over the vast span of human history created the Western world and our value system of tolerance...extended today even to the children here who spit on the Bible.

[Rude Rick 0]

and not for me..

 

and not for the multitudes who over the vast span of human history created the Western world and our value system of tolerance...extended today even to the children here who spit on the Bible.

 

You have more in common with the Radical Clerics then you think.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

No, Christianity teaches to "love your enemies." Islam does not. In fact, it teaches quite the opposite. Infadels who won't convert are to be killed.

 

My understanding is that both religions believe that you should "love your enemies". However in practice, most religions (including your Christianity) believe that the "Infidels" should be killed and/or will go to Hell. That type of hypocritical thinking is not a result of the pure religion, but the bastardization of religion by churches/mosques/synogogues, etc.

 

When it comes to intolerance and Christianity, think of how the Churches speak of the gays. Seems sort of against all that I was taught about what Jesus would do.

[TyCobb 0]

My understanding is that both religions believe that you should "love your enemies".

 

Your understanding is wrong. No offense.

 

However in practice, most religions (including your Christianity) believe that the "Infidels" should be killed and/or will go to Hell. That type of hypocritical thinking is not a result of the pure religion, but the bastardization of religion by churches/mosques/synogogues, etc.

 

I don't believe they should be killed. As for Hell, Jesus had more to say about it than love. So he obviously took it seriously. And it's not hypocritical to try and rescue those who are headed for disaster. I'm not speaking here of the "in your face" judgmental evangelism of some. I'm speaking of the gentle acts of kindness and unconditional love that Christians are taught to show to convince others of the message of Jesus Christ.

 

When it comes to intolerance and Christianity, think of how the Churches speak of the gays. Seems sort of against all that I was taught about what Jesus would do.

 

Like I said, some take the Bible seriously ... others don't. BTW - I've got quite a few gay friends with which I interact on a daily basis. We've got a friendship, yet they know what I believe. So it's not impossible for a Christian to find the balance between love and truth.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Your understanding is wrong. No offense.

I don't believe they should be killed. As for Hell, Jesus had more to say about it than love. So he obviously took it seriously. And it's not hypocritical to try and rescue those who are headed for disaster. I'm not speaking here of the "in your face" judgmental evangelism of some. I'm speaking of the gentle acts of kindness and unconditional love that Christians are taught to show to convince others of the message of Jesus Christ.

Like I said, so take the Bible seriously ... others don't. BTW - I've got quite a few gay friends with which I interact on a daily basis. We've got a friendship, yet they know what I believe. So it's not impossible for a Christian to find the balance between love and truth.

 

Thanks for the honest comments. While I disagree with you and you showed no proof of how the most basic parts of your religion backs you up and how the basic part of other religions does not back others up, I still respect your right to have that opinion.

[gocolts 300]

Isn't that an oxymoron? Bible and serious.

 

I guess you will find out,one day,wontcha.

[TyCobb 0]

Thanks for the honest comments. While I disagree with you and you showed no proof of how the most basic parts of your religion backs you up and how the basic part of other religions does not back others up, I still respect your right to have that opinion.

 

Not sure what you're talking about.

 

I supported one belief, namely that Jesus talked more about Hell than about love. I suppose I could quote all the verses, but my guess is that would not prove helpful. I would do so if you want to read them.

 

For that matter, I could find you verses in the Koran where infadels are to be killed. But again, I didn't think this was the place for it.

 

BTW - What is your "understanding" of Islam teaching us to love our enemies based on? First hand study or wishful thinking?

[Isotopes 1]

You have more in common with the Radical Clerics then you think.

 

If fastfish was born in the middle east he would be recruiting suicide bombers. He wouldn't be one, he prefers to send others to their death

[gocolts 300]

If fastfish was born in the middle east he would be recruiting suicide bombers. He wouldn't be one, he prefers to send others to their death

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Not sure what you're talking about.

 

I supported one belief, namely that Jesus talked more about Hell than about love. I suppose I could quote all the verses, but my guess is that would not prove helpful. I would do so if you want to read them.

 

For that matter, I could find you verses in the Koran where infadels are to be killed. But again, I didn't think this was the place for it.

 

BTW - What is your "understanding" of Islam teaching us to love our enemies based on? First hand study or wishful thinking?

 

I believe that you are assuming that you can produce all of these quotes without anything on the other side that disproves what you say. Remember that you cannot go by radical interpretations from either side that have been skewed by language or lunacy.

 

Just because someone gives you a quote from Osama bin Laden that supposedly comes from the Qur'an does not make it so.

 

I have heard from certain other sources (with quotes) that you are incorrect.

 

Let's start here:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html

[mulletia 0]

and not for me..

 

and not for the multitudes who over the vast span of human history created the Western world and our value system of tolerance...extended today even to the children here who spit on the Bible.

tolerance?

 

are you speaking of soem other religion perhaps taoism?

[Bert 1,129]

My understanding is that both religions believe that you should "love your enemies". However in practice, most religions (including your Christianity) believe that the "Infidels" should be killed and/or will go to Hell. That type of hypocritical thinking is not a result of the pure religion, but the bastardization of religion by churches/mosques/synogogues, etc.

 

When it comes to intolerance and Christianity, think of how the Churches speak of the gays. Seems sort of against all that I was taught about what Jesus would do.

 

A-focking-men!!!!!

 

Organized religion is the debil. They are all about money and power. They claim to be about peace, love and helping the mis-fortunate, BULLSHAT.

 

The basic tenants of almost all religions is peace, love, and tolerance but the leaders of large religions focus on collections, political power and expanding their revenue base.

[doughboys_2002 11]

Buddhism!

[TyCobb 0]

I believe that you are assuming that you can produce all of these quotes without anything on the other side that disproves what you say. Remember that you cannot go by radical interpretations from either side that have been skewed by language or lunacy.

 

Just because someone gives you a quote from Osama bin Laden that supposedly comes from the Qur'an does not make it so.

 

I have heard from certain other sources (with quotes) that you are incorrect.

 

Let's start here:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html

 

No, I'm just talking about what the Bible actually says. Verbatum.

[TyCobb 0]

If Bush really is a Christian, either the Bible is a complete lie or he is going straight to hell.

 

Once again, why's he going to hell according to the Bible?

[Rude Rick 0]

Once again, why's he going to hell according to the Bible?

 

"Thou shalt not kill."

[TyCobb 0]

"Thou shalt not kill."

 

I assume you are alluding to the War in Iraq. Not that Bush actually killed someone.

 

If so, the Bible doesn't preclude appropriate times of war :

 

For instance : "For everything there is an appointed time... A time to kill, and a time to heal ... a time for war, and a time for peace." (Eccl. 3)

 

But my question relates to Torridjoe and his belief that, if the Bible is correct, Bush is going to Hell. I'm wondering why he feels that way.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

No, I'm just talking about what the Bible actually says. Verbatum.

 

I have no doubt that you think this. However, the Bible was translated and there is no "Verbatum". If you can somehow produce a Bible that was in the original handwriting and can give it back to me "verbatim", then please do so.

 

I am not sure what sort of God you believe in, but the one that I was taught to believe in was not as closed-minded as yours. I don't believe even the worst pedophile on the face of the planet could be absolved as long as he recanted on his death-bed, even though the current Bible may say that is true.

 

The key point is that I was saying that Islam in its original form (i.e. unbastardized) is not unlike your religion (whatever that may be). You said that I was incorrect and yet I gave you links that show that you are incorrect. The fact of the matter is that ALL major religions have gone through centuries of interpretation, manipulation, and politicization and what we see today in religion is a far cry what what the original intent was.

[TyCobb 0]

I am not sure what sort of God you believe in, but the one that I was taught to believe in was not as closed-minded as yours. I don't believe even the worst pedophile on the face of the planet could be absolved as long as he recanted on his death-bed, even though the current Bible may say that is true.

 

That's odd. You call me close-minded, then tell me there are some who can't be forgiven. Interesting.

[drobeski 3,061]

Original islam has nothing to do with this subject, the subject is radical islam. It exists.....and has to be dealt with.

 

Do some of you really believe we should just leave it alone ? Do you think they will become unradical ? Do you think we should tolerate it ?

 

Do you guys live in a make pretend world where bad muslims dont exist ? I know torrid does but I was hoping he was the exception.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

That's odd. You call me close-minded, then tell me there are some who can't be forgiven. Interesting.

 

I never said that I did not have my own issues. However, I don't think that pedophiles and murderers can somehow have salvation and gays don't. Sorry.

 

Again, the issue was not the hypocrisy of Christianity. That one has been beaten to death. The point was that you somehow think that the Qur'an teaches people to be hateful and wanting to kill the "infidels". From what I have seen, it is not he Qur'an that we have a problem with, but rather the people who interpret it incorrectly. Sort of like the Christians during the Crusades.

[GutterBoy 2,900]

I don't know if it's been asked, but I wonder how many Iraqis would have killed other Iraqis if we never took out Saddam?

[gocolts 300]

"Thou shalt not kill."

 

That is what the liberals changed it to.It is incorrect though.

 

"Thou shalt not murder" is correct.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Original islam has nothing to do with this subject, the subject is radical islam. It exists.....and has to be dealt with.

 

Do some of you really believe we should just leave it alone ? Do you think they will become unradical ? Do you think we should tolerate it ?

 

Do you guys live in a make pretend world where bad muslims dont exist ? I know torrid does but I was hoping he was the exception.

 

I think that the point was that you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. We have some focked up Christians, but we don't want to get rid of all of them. We should try to have the normal Islamics deal with the nutjob Islamics along with us as opposed to helping some who are on the fence over to the wrong side.

 

I also think that there are many folks here who somehow think that we can change thousands of years of religious, tribal, racial, and political fighting (there may be more) with some tanks and guns. We are merely a speed bump in a long road of wars that these people have been having. Check the history books for verification.

[Strike 6,050]

I don't know if it's been asked, but I wonder how many Iraqis would have killed other Iraqis if we never took out Saddam?

 

Is Saddam an Iraqi?

[TyCobb 0]

I never said that I did not have my own issues. However, I don't think that pedophiles and murderers can somehow have salvation and gays don't. Sorry.

 

Why can't gays have salvation?

[Q.Lazzarus 0]

Your understanding is wrong. No offense.

I don't believe they should be killed. As for Hell, Jesus had more to say about it than love. So he obviously took it seriously. And it's not hypocritical to try and rescue those who are headed for disaster. I'm not speaking here of the "in your face" judgmental evangelism of some. I'm speaking of the gentle acts of kindness and unconditional love that Christians are taught to show to convince others of the message of Jesus Christ.

Like I said, some take the Bible seriously ... others don't. BTW - I've got quite a few gay friends with which I interact on a daily basis. We've got a friendship, yet they know what I believe. So it's not impossible for a Christian to find the balance between love and truth.

 

 

Love and "truth"?

 

Truth: 1.Conformity to fact or actuality.

2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.

3. Reality

 

 

 

 

Methinks you should try again.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Why can't gays have salvation?

 

Can they? Is there anyone that can't have salvation in your eyes?

 

Is homosexuality the "ultimate perversion of nature"?

 

I figure that gays can have salvation. As long as they lead a good life and are good people (I don't consider homosexuality as a sin), then they can go to Heaven.

 

I figure that the pedophiles and the murderers don't have that option regardless of what they say or how much they pay to the Church.

 

Those are my opinions.

 

Do you know what the Islamics think about it (remember, we are not talking about the radicals here)?

 

ETA: Good night and God Bless

[TyCobb 0]

Can they?

 

Yes

 

Is there anyone that can't have salvation in your eyes?

 

Of course not. That's the beauty of Christianity - no one is beyond God's reach.

 

Is homosexuality the "ultimate perversion of nature"?

 

No, I wouldn't say it's the "ultimate" anything. I do believe in the Biblical definition of appropriate sex, namely that it is a blessing from God created for a husband and wife.

 

I figure that gays can have salvation. As long as they lead a good life and are good people (I don't consider homosexuality as a sin), then they can go to Heaven.

 

No offense, but you're confused about the nature of Christianity.

 

I figure that the pedophiles and the murderers don't have that option regardless of what they say or how much they pay to the Church.

 

And you call me close-minded. BTW - It's irrelevant how much someone pays the Church.

 

Do you know what the Islamics think about it (remember, we are not talking about the radicals here)?

 

Think about what? Homosexuality? Pedophilia? Murder? Yes, I do. They're against it.

[Voltaire 5,534]

Once again, why's he going to hell according to the Bible?

 

You can't go to hell for budget projections that are trillions of dollars off, mortgaging off your country, or provoking a war.

 

You can only go for getting a blowjob from an intern.