Some closing thoughts on the Masters......

[Fumbleweed 462]

For those of us who love watching professional golf major tournaments, I think this weekend served notice that things in the sport are getting better and better. Just some thoughts on why that is:

 

1. There is a group of younger players who appear to be surging towards really making Woods work to get to 18 major titles. Johnson is a stronger player than some of the major winners in years past like Hamilton, Beem, and Curtis. There were several other young players like Sabbatini and Taylor who played very well this weekend. The Ryder Cup "rookies" from 2006 are growing up in a hurry.

 

2. Tiger was outplayed on the final day by at least three contenders, if not more. Johnson, Goosen, and Sabbatini outplayed him by quite a bit and when Tiger got the outright lead early on Sunday, none of those guys seemed to blink. Of course, none of them were having to play alongside him, either. The one guy who did have to (Appleby) responded like so many others have. Whatever the case, it was nice to see the field not just part like the Red Sea and allow Tiger to win by default. A number of players played their best golf when it mattered most and made clutch shots- Johnson in particular. He was fantastic on that back nine. Recovered from that first hole bogey and then some.

 

3. In Woods' defense, he really struggled at times on all four days, and still found himself only two shots off the lead in the end. That's the mark of a truly great player. He may have to start earning titles more from here on out with players actually rising to the challenge instead of mentally crumbling, but when he's really on, he's still the best out there.

 

4. I am wondering if guys like Els and Singh will even win another major. Some of the younger players seem to be pulling even with them if not passing them by- Els for certain. In spite of this, one thing you can take to the bank is that Retief Goosen, short of dying, is going to win another major. Probably multiple majors. He's in the thick of things almost every time out anymore. I think Goosen is currently the world's second best player.

 

5. Anybody else think Zach Johnson looks like Chris O'Donnell??

[jerryskids 5,460]

I don't think it was a coincidence that Goosen was in the hunt in very US Open-like conditions. He seems to thrive in those.

 

Also, is Mickelson done? Jeebus, a triple on the first hole?

[Fumbleweed 462]

I don't think it was a coincidence that Goosen was in the hunt in very US Open-like conditions. He seems to thrive in those.

 

 

Good point. I think he's in contention all the time anymore, but especially in those events that really break the average player. Pretty cool guy under pressure most of the time.

[jets24 6]

I still think Tiger is amazing. Glad to see Zach win but Tiger amazes me that he even stayed in it.

[birdbrain3X 0]

 

5. Anybody else think Zach Johnson looks like Chris O'Donnell??

 

Joaquin Phoenix

[Fumbleweed 462]

Joaquin Phoenix

 

You're right.....he's kind of a cross between the two, methinks.

[Mephisto 15]

Johnson is a one-hit wonder, Johnny McOverstatement.

[bostonlager 2,521]

Johnson is a one-hit wonder, Johnny McOverstatement.

 

 

[Fumbleweed 462]

Johnson is a one-hit wonder, Johnny McOverstatement.

 

He was good enough in '06 to make the Ryder Cup team. I think he's a cut above guys like Hamilton, Curtis, Micheel and Beem (no disrespect to them- they won their majors with great performances).

 

That was impressive today. Johnson played his best on the back nine when the pressure was most intense. I'd say he's going to be a solid contender in majors for the next decade as will guys like Geoff Ogilvy (last year's breakthrough major winner).

 

The Masters is a pretty tough major to win. You gotta be pretty darn good to do it.

[GettnHuge 1]

a major one hit wonder

he's got a couple more tourneys in em imho

[jets24 6]

Johnson is a one-hit wonder, Johnny McOverstatement.

 

 

One hit wonder? Not so sure I agree with that. The guy was ranked 56th in the World before today. He has won before. He has finished in the top ten over 15 times already. Finished in the top 25 almost 40 times and he has played in less than 100 events. Made over $8 Million on tour. Not sure I would label him a one hit wonder.

[Toro 1]

One hit wonder? Not so sure I agree with that. The guy was ranked 56th in the World before today. He has won before. He has finished in the top ten over 15 times already. Finished in the top 25 almost 40 times and he has played in less than 100 events. Made over $8 Million on tour. Not sure I would label him a one hit wonder.

 

Mephisto making inflammatory statements out of his [rome]ASSSSSSSS[/rome]?

 

Never.

 

The kid is good. Let's see if he can sustain it.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 38]

It looked to me as if they gave the greens a little water overnight (not much) and rolled them this am. They were a touch slower and much smoother than yesterday. Don't know if the talking heads addressed this as I couldn't hear over the ruckus.

 

And, I was very happy that it wasn't the TW show and they actually showed others as they played instead of just highlights while TW was in the Porta Poddy.

[Snoopy1 0]

IMO, Tiger has nitpicked his game too much. The '97 Tiger didn't have this much trouble finding the fairways. Granted they have really toughed the course, but all his swing changes seemed to have cost him in both accuracy and distance.

 

Even still, he's the best scrambler on the planet. Almost magician like getting out of trouble.

 

The one guy who I don't think will ever win a major, Rose. Whenever he seems to be in the hunt, just shoots himself in the foot. Pressure is off, birdie, birdie birdie, gets back in position. Double-bogey-out.

 

Hat's off to Zach, seems like a pretty nice guy, who handled some immense pressure down the back nine to win golf's biggest tourney.

[Mephisto 15]

Hat's off to Zach, seems like a pretty nice guy, who handled some immense pressure down the back nine to win golf's biggest tourney.

 

It's hard not to when God is your caddy.

[JT 137]

 

The one guy who I don't think will ever win a major, Rose. Whenever he seems to be in the hunt, just shoots himself in the foot. Pressure is off, birdie, birdie birdie, gets back in position. Double-bogey-out.

 

 

Rose and Garcia, head-to-head in a two man, high pressure match, would find a way to tie for third.

[Jeremy 0]

It seemed like early in the round Tiger was doing his "play not to lose" routine that usually works. Just try to get pars the whole way and expect the rest to crumble. Even though I'm a fan of his, I was happy to see him pressured and actually have to take some chances.

 

I agree that some of the older players like Els and Singh, and possibly even Mickelson are starting to lose ground to some young and up and coming players. It's scary, though, that Tiger playing poorly is still almost enough to win a major.

[remote controller 138]

It seemed like early in the round Tiger was doing his "play not to lose" routine that usually works. Just try to get pars the whole way and expect the rest to crumble. Even though I'm a fan of his, I was happy to see him pressured and actually have to take some chances.

 

I agree that some of the older players like Els and Singh, and possibly even Mickelson are starting to lose ground to some young and up and coming players. It's scary, though, that Tiger playing poorly is still almost enough to win a major.

He wasn't the only one to play poorly and still have a chance to win. How about that 20 inch put Johnson missed the day before, then missed the come backer.

[pt_mck 7]

The only time tiger really dominates are when there are lot of birdies to be had. Even then he just dominates the par 5s. When the conditions are tough (at US open type setups as this one was) and the winning score is at or around par he just doesn't win as much. He has never come from behind in a major.

[remote controller 138]

Outside of the job Zach did, I thought the second most important storyline was what Couples accomplished.

[Electric Mayhem 35]

Joaquin Phoenix

 

I was thinking the same thing every time they showed him

[Fumbleweed 462]

It seemed like early in the round Tiger was doing his "play not to lose" routine that usually works. Just try to get pars the whole way and expect the rest to crumble. Even though I'm a fan of his, I was happy to see him pressured and actually have to take some chances.

 

I agree that some of the older players like Els and Singh, and possibly even Mickelson are starting to lose ground to some young and up and coming players. It's scary, though, that Tiger playing poorly is still almost enough to win a major.

 

Tiger's "play not to lose" approach usually works because so many of his contemporaries have folded like lawn furniture on Sundays. DiMarco was the one obvious exception in their 2005 duel and yesterday, several players rose to the challenge.

 

Woods is a dynamic player. The best of his generation. But, his win total in majors has been aided by a lack of guts and mental toughness from some of his competitors. He is the best front runner.....probably ever. But, Nicklaus had mentally tougher challengers in his day and he could win in a variety of ways.

 

Whatever the case, players not just laying down for Tiger is a very good thing for golf. It should push him to be better and the competition will gain confidence as well.

[jets24 6]

The only time tiger really dominates are when there are lot of birdies to be had. Even then he just dominates the par 5s. When the conditions are tough (at US open type setups as this one was) and the winning score is at or around par he just doesn't win as much. He has never come from behind in a major.

 

 

[Cruzer 1,993]

The only time tiger really dominates are when there are lot of birdies to be had. Even then he just dominates the par 5s. When the conditions are tough (at US open type setups as this one was) and the winning score is at or around par he just doesn't win as much. He has never come from behind in a major.

you might want to revisit the 2000 & 2002 us opens. in '00 at pebble - tiger won the title at -12, the 2nd place finished +3. that's a 15 shot margin of victory in a us open when nobody else in the field broke or matched par. '02 was similar at Bethpage. Tiger was the only player to finish under par and strolled to a 3 shot victory. and though it's true he's never come from behind to win a major, nobody else has possessed all 4 modern majors at one time.

[BroncoBilly 0]

Jack Nicklaus won 18 majors over his career correct? Does that just include the PGA or does it include the senior tour too? If it includes the senior tour I think Tiger has a realistic chance of breaking it the record. If its just the PGA, I dont know if he will do it. Its tough going out there and being the benchmark every major.

 

Congrats to Zach, he played a cool, smart, game and beat the best in the world.

[Cruzer 1,993]

IMO, Tiger has nitpicked his game too much. The '97 Tiger didn't have this much trouble finding the fairways. Granted they have really toughed the course, but all his swing changes seemed to have cost him in both accuracy and distance.

couldn't disagree more. tiger shocked the planet with his record setting win at the '97 masters. after his first 9 holes thursday, he completely dominated the course and the field with his raw power and putting genius. but what happened after that? in two words, not much. those same tactics that won him the masters killed him in the following majors. remember the '97 open at congressional? he made the cut but was a total non-factor. same thing at the '98 open at olympic club, made the cut but finished damn near before the leaders teed off. nope, tiger figured out early on (and johnny miller used to say this all the time) that he needed to learn how to play golf from 100 yards in. at that time, tiger had no idea to control his distances from that range. it took him 2 1/2 years but he finally stared to figure it out. remember the '99 open at pinehurst? he was fantastic and if not for two 3 foot misses on the back, he would have been in a playoff w/payne. but even after that, tiger went on to win the pga that summer at medinah, his first major since the '97 masters.

 

Tiger's "play not to lose" approach usually works because so many of his contemporaries have folded like lawn furniture on Sundays. DiMarco was the one obvious exception in their 2005 duel and yesterday, several players rose to the challenge.

bob may, 2000 pga championship at valhalla. and actually, the pga championship rich beem won at hazeltine. beem held off tiger who birdied something like his last 4 holes in a row or sumsuch.

 

it's true i think had greater champions in his day to compete with, but tiger is setting scoring records along the way. to me that cancels out much of that argument. but i was shocked to see tiger hit 3wood of #8 tee and lay-up on the reachable par 5.

[Snoopy1 0]

you might want to revisit the 2000 & 2002 us opens. in '00 at pebble - tiger won the title at -12, the 2nd place finished +3. that's a 15 shot margin of victory in a us open when nobody else in the field broke or matched par. '02 was similar at Bethpage. Tiger was the only player to finish under par and strolled to a 3 shot victory. and though it's true he's never come from behind to win a major, nobody else has possessed all 4 modern majors at one time.

 

 

What do you think of his swing changes? Seems he hasn't posted the remarkable scores since all the changes in his swing, though he has changed equipment too...

 

couldn't disagree more. tiger shocked the planet with his record setting win at the '97 masters. after his first 9 holes thursday, he completely dominated the course and the field with his raw power and putting genius. but what happened after that? in two words, not much. those same tactics that won him the masters killed him in the following majors. remember the '97 open at congressional? he made the cut but was a total non-factor. same thing at the '98 open at olympic club, made the cut but finished damn near before the leaders teed off. nope, tiger figured out early on (and johnny miller used to say this all the time) that he needed to learn how to play golf from 100 yards in. at that time, tiger had no idea to control his distances from that range. it took him 2 1/2 years but he finally stared to figure it out. remember the '99 open at pinehurst? he was fantastic and if not for two 3 foot misses on the back, he would have been in a playoff w/payne. but even after that, tiger went on to win the pga that summer at medinah, his first major since the '97 masters.

bob may, 2000 pga championship at valhalla. and actually, the pga championship rich beem won at hazeltine. beem held off tiger who birdied something like his last 4 holes in a row or sumsuch.

 

 

 

Okay, but were talking about two different things. You're talking about his massive improvement in his short game, but I was pretty much just talking about Tiger off the tee.

[parrot 789]

but I was pretty much just talking about Tiger off the tee.

Is Tiger really that much worse off the tee, or is the penalty for missing just a lot bigger now?

[Fumbleweed 462]

couldn't disagree more. tiger shocked the planet with his record setting win at the '97 masters. after his first 9 holes thursday, he completely dominated the course and the field with his raw power and putting genius. but what happened after that? in two words, not much. those same tactics that won him the masters killed him in the following majors. remember the '97 open at congressional? he made the cut but was a total non-factor. same thing at the '98 open at olympic club, made the cut but finished damn near before the leaders teed off. nope, tiger figured out early on (and johnny miller used to say this all the time) that he needed to learn how to play golf from 100 yards in. at that time, tiger had no idea to control his distances from that range. it took him 2 1/2 years but he finally stared to figure it out. remember the '99 open at pinehurst? he was fantastic and if not for two 3 foot misses on the back, he would have been in a playoff w/payne. but even after that, tiger went on to win the pga that summer at medinah, his first major since the '97 masters.

bob may, 2000 pga championship at valhalla. and actually, the pga championship rich beem won at hazeltine. beem held off tiger who birdied something like his last 4 holes in a row or sumsuch.

 

it's true i think had greater champions in his day to compete with, but tiger is setting scoring records along the way. to me that cancels out much of that argument. but i was shocked to see tiger hit 3wood of #8 tee and lay-up on the reachable par 5.

 

May and Beem are good examples of other days in which players stepped up. I've seen guys like Garcia, Els, and Love crumble several times under the weight of the moment. Of those three, Ernie has also had his great moments, so I'm not slamming him.

 

I know he was getting older when he died, but it would have been nice to see Payne Stewart and Tiger battle a few times. Stewart was a mentally tough challenger and would have been a crafty, worthy foe.

 

Johnson's demeanor yesterday reminded me some of Justin Leonard. What's happened to him? And what's happened to Kenny Perry for that matter?

[Cruzer 1,993]

i really believe tiger changed his swing bcoz he realized that he had to if he was going to be competitive in his late 30's and perhaps into his 40's. it's no secret that the flatter plane he's gone to is much easier on the body. that being said, i think the swing changes are still a work in progress but even at that - the dude racked up a british open & a pga championship last year. and if i'm not mistaken, he got to -18 in both, that's pretty salty. and no, he has not set any record setting scores in majors of late, but that's kind of what makes what he did in '00 so frekishly un-human-like amazing.

 

and it is true he does not hit as many fairways as he used to, but he's considerably longer off the tee now. this is not by accident, many of the long/top players have decided to make this sacrifice. in a nutshell, they would rather hit 9 iron from the rough that 6 iron from the fairway. the commentators routinely speak of this, seems the new wave of the bombing touring pro.

[fricker66 91]

Johnson's demeanor yesterday reminded me some of Justin Leonard. What's happened to him?

 

Leonard married and has little kids. He's made a lot of money playing golf, and he's enjoying family time now. Frankly, I don't blame him.

[GettnHuge 1]

after what happened last year in the masters and US, media peeps were coming down on Tiger.

he did ok after that, no?

Tiger played average last week and finished 2nd at the Masters. Not bad. This whole idea of him losing

a lead on sunday is ridiculous. he was in front for a hole or two very early in the round and probably

didn't even know it because every 15-20 mins everything kept changing dramatically.

 

Nicklaus had a helluva lot of 2nd places and nowadays he is praised for it.

[Cruzer 1,993]

I know he was getting older when he died, but it would have been nice to see Payne Stewart and Tiger battle a few times. Stewart was a mentally tough challenger and would have been a crafty, worthy foe.

love payne, but even he had his moments. his meltdown in the '98 us open was horrible. he certainly got some bad breaks that sunday afternoon but he also couldn't hit a fairway or make a putt to save his life.

 

Johnson's demeanor yesterday reminded me some of Justin Leonard. What's happened to him? And what's happened to Kenny Perry for that matter?

justin has been distracted by family life (new wife and babies). perry has suffered from major health problems.

[edjr 5,783]

 

 

What's funny? How many majors has Tiger won on a par 70 course?

[Snoopy1 0]

Is Tiger really that much worse off the tee, or is the penalty for missing just a lot bigger now?

 

 

This year he ranks 161 in Driving Accuracy @ 55%

 

In 2000 he ranked 54 at 71%

[fricker66 91]

I'm blaming everything on his wife. HTH.

[Snoopy1 0]

 

 

and it is true he does not hit as many fairways as he used to, but he's considerably longer off the tee now. this is not by accident, many of the long/top players have decided to make this sacrifice. in a nutshell, they would rather hit 9 iron from the rough that 6 iron from the fairway. the commentators routinely speak of this, seems the new wave of the bombing touring pro.

 

 

According to golf world, he's lost nearly 10 yards off the tee since 2000 & his total driving rank has gone from #1 to tied for 113th.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

i really believe tiger changed his swing bcoz he realized that he had to if he was going to be competitive in his late 30's and perhaps into his 40's. it's no secret that the flatter plane he's gone to is much easier on the body. that being said, i think the swing changes are still a work in progress but even at that - the dude racked up a british open & a pga championship last year. and if i'm not mistaken, he got to -18 in both, that's pretty salty. and no, he has not set any record setting scores in majors of late, but that's kind of what makes what he did in '00 so frekishly un-human-like amazing.

 

and it is true he does not hit as many fairways as he used to, but he's considerably longer off the tee now. this is not by accident, many of the long/top players have decided to make this sacrifice. in a nutshell, they would rather hit 9 iron from the rough that 6 iron from the fairway. the commentators routinely speak of this, seems the new wave of the bombing touring pro.

 

Exactly. Other golfers would remark about Tiger's swing and would call it "violent". That sort of swing is fine when you are young and strong, but he had to make modifications to allow him to play longer.

 

I would also caution people from comparing 2000 to 2007 since other players have changed as well and the technology has changed. Driving distance or accuracy is not necessarily the measure of how good a player is. A better stat is GIR and scoring. Just take a look at the British Open last year.

[Cruzer 1,993]

According to golf world, he's lost nearly 10 yards off the tee since 2000 & his total driving rank has gone from #1 to tied for 113th.

this is a bit shady. a lot of times tiger is hitting 3-wood off a measuring hole. take for instance yday, tiger hit 3wood off the tee on #8, which still shocks me but he did. but also did on #13, and only had 191 yards on his 2nd shot to a 525 par 5. :damn:

[Snoopy1 0]

this is a bit shady. a lot of times tiger is hitting 3-wood off a measuring hole. take for instance yday, tiger hit 3wood off the tee on #8, which still shocks me but he did. but also did on #13, and only had 191 yards on his 2nd shot to a 525 par 5. :damn:

 

 

Well it is the average over an entire year, but I understand what you are saying that he's not using the Big Dog as much.

 

 

I guess I understand that he made changes to his swing to prolong his career, but it just seems it's changed his game quite a bit. Perhaps the reason he's not using the big dog is he's just not nearly as accurate as he once was...

 

To me that's really the bigger issue with his game, the fact that he's went from 71% of fairways hit(and nearly averaging 300 with the driver) to 55%. Now I don't understand how his new better swing can cause him to miss the fairway 15% more of the time. If he's swing less hard shouldn't he be hitting more fairways?