The Moz 69 Posted January 7, 2008 IMO you can't really say Cy Young or Walter Johnson becasue those pitched like every other day to get all thoses wins and played against a level of competition that isn't even close to today's game. Page ( Paige ? sp ) was supposedly un hittable in the Negro leagues but never played against both black / White except for the twighlight of his career. Ryan while he might be my favorite pitcher Never really won anyhting as far as team play , Bob Gibson was maybe the most dominant over a short span but didn't keep it up for a long time , Seaver - really consistent but never absolute dminant - consistently great. Koufax the greatest lefty ever but was the player qaulity the same as it is now ? The one Pitcher I woudl say is the greatest ever is Roger Clemens - If his steroid scandal gets cleared up - If not then I got to say Bob Gibson as for a few years in the late 60's and 70's he dominated like no Pitcher IMO has. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 850 Posted January 7, 2008 Joel "The Bird" Zumaya. That 2 1/2 month stretch he was in his prime.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted January 7, 2008 Over the course of a career Clemens is prolly the best ever. Like most other things its really hard to compare era's though. The most dominant pitcher I have ever seen for a certain timespan was Pedro Martinez between 1997 - 2003. Hands down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,620 Posted January 7, 2008 you have Clemens and not Pedro? Pedro >>>>>>>>>> Clemens Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,790 Posted January 7, 2008 Accodring to Edjr's "catcher", Edjr is the bestest "pitcher" evah! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,620 Posted January 7, 2008 Accodring to Edjr's "catcher", Edjr is the bestest "pitcher" evah! Nah. I'm the Johnny Bench of catching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,620 Posted January 7, 2008 Imagine how good pedro would have been with Steroids? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jets24 6 Posted January 7, 2008 Molly Do you have any idea what an example she set for other women in the war? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 69 Posted January 7, 2008 Molly Do you have any idea what an example she set for other women in the war? She couldn't lay off the high ones Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TommyGavin 790 Posted January 7, 2008 anyone that voted Clemens is an ass Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mighty_thor 115 Posted January 7, 2008 Walter Johnson. It was'nt his fault that he didn't pitch against blacks. So, Babe Ruth could never be considered to be the best hitter ever? He was a dominant pitcher for a last place team. He dominated pitching like Babe Ruth dominated hitting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,252 Posted January 7, 2008 Nolan Ryan. 5714 strikeouts 1st overall 7 no hitters 1st overall 773 games started 2nd overall 20 10 win seasons 9 seasons he won over 15 games 27 seasons And he beat robin venturas arse when he was in his 40's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,620 Posted January 7, 2008 Nolan Ryan.5714 strikeouts 1st overall 7 no hitters 1st overall 773 games started 2nd overall 20 10 win seasons 9 seasons he won over 15 games 27 seasons And he beat robin venturas arse when he was in his 40's. STEROIDS!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted January 7, 2008 Nolan Ryan.5714 strikeouts 1st overall 7 no hitters 1st overall 773 games started 2nd overall 20 10 win seasons 9 seasons he won over 15 games 27 seasons And he beat robin venturas arse when he was in his 40's. How many Cy Youngs and World Series MVP's / victories? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,620 Posted January 7, 2008 How many Cy Youngs and World Series MVP's / victories? How many needles in the arse? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,252 Posted January 7, 2008 some other odd factoids about Ryan. The first home run he ever gave up as a pro was to joe torre. He is baseballs first million dollar man. he posted an ERA of 1.69 in 1981 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 69 Posted January 7, 2008 After looking again - I would say Bob Gibson is the greatest Pitcher ever ! in an 8 year span his highest ERA was 3.39 with 5 years in below 3 and 1 year 1.12. Got 200 K's alost every year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,620 Posted January 7, 2008 After looking again - I would say Bob Gibson is the greatest Pitcher ever ! in an 8 year span his highest ERA was 3.39 with 5 years in below 3 and 1 year 1.12. Got 200 K's alost every year. When they raised the mound. Look at 1968? McLain won 30 games and Gibson had a 1.12 era Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Willie McGee 0 Posted January 7, 2008 Nolan Not even close. ZERO Cy Young awards. Finished 2nd ONCE. In 27 seasons! How can you be the greatest pitchers ever, if you were never the best pitcher in your league for a given season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bier Meister 1,721 Posted January 7, 2008 tough call...... gotta comes down to hall or oates Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RicemanX 20 Posted January 8, 2008 tough call...... gotta comes down to hall or oates hmmm...thought the band was just one person's name... Holland Oates.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bier Meister 1,721 Posted January 8, 2008 hmmm...thought the band was just one person's name...Holland Oates.... there was the hair dude and the mustache dude. i think maddux and smoltz are on the list, but not best all time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAMJAY77 1 Posted January 8, 2008 The GREATEST is Cy Young. The BEST- that's up for debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince44 205 Posted January 10, 2008 I am shocked Maddux is not in this poll and hardly even mentioned at all. The one guy who you know never touched steriods, HGH, or any banned substance. Maddux never needed a big build or a great arm to win multiple Cy Young's but he was a master on that mound of setting up and outsmarting the hitters. 347 wins 3.11 ERA 3,273 K's Cy Young winner 4 years in a row from 92-95 Maddux won 15 or more games in 17 straight seasons. Maddux had a ERA under 4 in 16 straight seasons. The guy still has great control and doesn't walk anyone. The best fielding pitcher maybe ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GettnHuge 2 Posted January 10, 2008 7354 ip 815 starts 749 complete games 511 wins Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cinciman7 2 Posted January 10, 2008 Nolan Ryan.5714 strikeouts 1st overall 7 no hitters 1st overall 773 games started 2nd overall 20 10 win seasons 9 seasons he won over 15 games 27 seasons And he beat robin venturas arse when he was in his 40's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 69 Posted January 10, 2008 Nolan Ryan was the greatest K pitcher of all time I will admit but IMO he would make the top 5 overall pitchers. My top 5 overall in no order Walter Johnson Bob Gibson Roger Clemens Cy Young Sandy Koufax Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mighty_thor 115 Posted January 10, 2008 Anyone saying Nolan ryan is just looking at his strikeouts. I watched baseball through all of Ryan's career and at no time was he considered the best pitcher in the league. Jim Palmer, Tom Seaver and Steve carlton were all better pitchers. He was a strikeout guy who walked a ton of guys. He was very inconsistent through much of his career. Pitching a no hitter one game and being very wild the next. If you had one game to win then Ryan was not the guy you wanted. Clemens in his pre steroid years was a much better accomplished pitcher than ryan ever was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpbuckeye 3 Posted January 10, 2008 any poll without tom browning is a farce and should not be allowed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,620 Posted January 10, 2008 Nolan Ryan.5714 strikeouts 1st overall 7 no hitters 1st overall 773 games started 2nd overall 20 10 win seasons 9 seasons he won over 15 games 27 seasons And he beat robin venturas arse when he was in his 40's. ok, now let's look at the IMPORTANT stats. Lead the league in era ONCE in 27 years. Lead the league in wins, NEVER in 27 years. Lead the league in losses one year. 2785 career walks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,620 Posted January 10, 2008 any poll without tom browning is a farce and should not be allowed. How's his arm? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cinciman7 2 Posted January 10, 2008 Anyone saying Nolan ryan is just looking at his strikeouts. I watched baseball through all of Ryan's career and at no time was he considered the best pitcher in the league. Jim Palmer, Tom Seaver and Steve carlton were all better pitchers. He was a strikeout guy who walked a ton of guys. He was very inconsistent through much of his career. Pitching a no hitter one game and being very wild the next. If you had one game to win then Ryan was not the guy you wanted. Clemens in his pre steroid years was a much better accomplished pitcher than ryan ever was. Nolan Ryan 2795 BB 5714 SO = 2.04 SO to BB Jim Palmer 1311BB 2212 SO = 1.7 SO to BB Tom Seaver 1390BB 3640 SO = 2.6 SO to BB Steve carlton 1833 BB 4136 SO = 2.3 SO to BB Cy Young 1217 BB 2803 SO = 2.3 SO to BB Not sure where you got your facts but he was far from wild and very durable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,620 Posted January 10, 2008 Nolan Ryan 2795 BB 5714 SO = 2.04 SO to BBJim Palmer 1311BB 2212 SO = 1.7 SO to BB Tom Seaver 1390BB 3640 SO = 2.6 SO to BB Steve carlton 1833 BB 4136 SO = 2.3 SO to BB Cy Young 1217 BB 2803 SO = 2.3 SO to BB Not sure where you got your facts but he was far from wild and very durable. Strikeouts are the most meaningless stat in all of baseball if you're a pitcher. AN OUT IS AN OUT. HTH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cinciman7 2 Posted January 10, 2008 ok, now let's look at the IMPORTANT stats. Lead the league in era ONCE in 27 years. Lead the league in wins, NEVER in 27 years. Lead the league in losses one year. 2785 career walks Now that you mention it.....he's kind of like Fred Taylor huh? Always a brides maid..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 850 Posted January 10, 2008 Strikeouts are the most meaningless stat in all of baseball if you're a pitcher. AN OUT IS AN OUT. HTH So a groundout to 2B with a runner on second (advancing him to third) or better yet a deep flyball with a runner on third (and less than two out) is the same as a strikeout in that situation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpbuckeye 3 Posted January 10, 2008 How's his arm? still attached Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
