Mike Vick couldn't carry Brady's jockstrap

[Willie McGee 0]

/end MVP debate.

[Acerun 0]

Another fourth quarter comeback heading this way.

[Willie McGee 0]

If he is the reason his team is behind, should he get credit for a comeback?

[Acerun 0]

Fair point. I guess if he does pull it off, people will forget the sloppy play.

 

I think Brady should get the MVP but Vick is very close

second.

[Matt Mueller 146]

Brady and it wasn't that close imo.

[Gepetto 995]

I think Brady wears panties.

[p00h 85]

mvp aside, brady is an all time great. Like top 10, if not top 5 great. Vick isn't. He's playing really well right now, but Brady's run a dynasty that is still not losing much steam, and like a machine he runs that dynasty effortlessly. Effing machine. If he racks up a few more championships, I'll consider him greater than peyton, whom I believe to be the greatest qb of all time...

 

 

-jets fan

[Matt Mueller 146]

mvp aside, brady is an all time great. Like top 10, if not top 5 great. Vick isn't. He's playing really well right now, but Brady's run a dynasty that is still not losing much steam, and like a machine he runs that dynasty effortlessly. Effing machine. If he racks up a few more championships, I'll consider him greater than peyton, whom I believe to be the greatest qb of all time...

 

 

-jets fan

 

Another Jets fan here. I'm pretty much of the same opinion.

 

Now let's go stomp the Pats in the Foxboro!

[kmbryant09 1]

A few points:

-Brady should, and will win the MVP. HOWEVER, stats are not all that telling. For instance, people have been all over Brady's jock for his play all season, and mostly, rightfully so. But the past few weeks, against 2 weak opponents (Rodger-less Packers, and the Bills), Brady has done next to nothing to decide the outcome of either game. Against the Bills, he threw 27 times, completed 15 passes, for 140 yards (5.2 ypa - awful). But, because his DEF forces 7 turnovers, and the run game produces 200 yards, he vultures 3 goal-to-go, simple-as-it-gets, TD's...and he finishes with 107 QB rating. Against the Packers, he had 2, maybe 3 passes hit the Packers' players in the chest, yet they drop the INT. Same thing against the Bears a few weeks ago (tipped pass gets dropped, Urlacher drops a pick). He deserves credit for that one drive to start the 4th quarter, where he throws a TD to take the lead, but he only threw for 160 yards and a 6.2 ypa (again, awful) - yet finishes with a 110 QB rating. He could very well have played these past 2 weeks with 300 combined yards, 3 INT's, and 1-2 TD's...which is likely a ~70ish QB rating.

 

-I agree with those few posts above. I don't know who sits atop the "greatest of all-time", but I know Manning is above Brady. Having said that, if Brady goes on to win another SB and 2 MVP's while Manning doesn't accrue any accolades, well then it's a completely different story. But I find it hilarious that people (members of this board, some of my close friends, the media) now claiming that Brady is the greatest of all-time, based on this season. Well, what about 8 out of the past 9 or 10 years when Manning was the better QB?

 

All that being said, Congrats to Patriots fans - it's been a very, very impressive regular season, and Brady has been the captain of this young team. He's played extremely well, avoided nearly all turnovers, and deserves the MVP award. It should make for an interesting playoffs, although I can't see a team beating NE in Foxboro

[Cstriker 2]

Brady all time top 5 IMO.

 

Last two games, BGE and the defense took it away from oppositions, so he did'nt need to do much.

[Blue Barbarian 0]

How many of these retarded threads are Asterisk*** fans going to put up on this forum. Ignorance can be cured, but stupid is forever.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

How many of these retarded threads are Asterisk*** fans going to put up on this forum. Ignorance can be cured, but stupid is forever.

 

Thanks for proving that with each and every one of your posts.

[redtodd 7]

A few points:

-Brady should, and will win the MVP. HOWEVER, stats are not all that telling. For instance, people have been all over Brady's jock for his play all season, and mostly, rightfully so. But the past few weeks, against 2 weak opponents (Rodger-less Packers, and the Bills), Brady has done next to nothing to decide the outcome of either game. Against the Bills, he threw 27 times, completed 15 passes, for 140 yards (5.2 ypa - awful). But, because his DEF forces 7 turnovers, and the run game produces 200 yards, he vultures 3 goal-to-go, simple-as-it-gets, TD's...and he finishes with 107 QB rating. Against the Packers, he had 2, maybe 3 passes hit the Packers' players in the chest, yet they drop the INT. Same thing against the Bears a few weeks ago (tipped pass gets dropped, Urlacher drops a pick). He deserves credit for that one drive to start the 4th quarter, where he throws a TD to take the lead, but he only threw for 160 yards and a 6.2 ypa (again, awful) - yet finishes with a 110 QB rating. He could very well have played these past 2 weeks with 300 combined yards, 3 INT's, and 1-2 TD's...which is likely a ~70ish QB rating.

 

-I agree with those few posts above. I don't know who sits atop the "greatest of all-time", but I know Manning is above Brady. Having said that, if Brady goes on to win another SB and 2 MVP's while Manning doesn't accrue any accolades, well then it's a completely different story. But I find it hilarious that people (members of this board, some of my close friends, the media) now claiming that Brady is the greatest of all-time, based on this season. Well, what about 8 out of the past 9 or 10 years when Manning was the better QB?

 

All that being said, Congrats to Patriots fans - it's been a very, very impressive regular season, and Brady has been the captain of this young team. He's played extremely well, avoided nearly all turnovers, and deserves the MVP award. It should make for an interesting playoffs, although I can't see a team beating NE in Foxboro

 

If it makes you feel any better, I think Manning is the 2nd best QB of all time. Right behind Brady.

[donhaas 18]

Rodgers > Flynn > Brady > Vick

[edjr 5,618]

If it makes you feel any better, I think Manning is the 2nd best QB of all time. Right behind Brady.

 

Manning has not played well in enough big games to be 2nd greatest all time.

 

I'm not getting into the debate about Brady, but no way Manning is #2 and Brady isn't #1 either. Not yet. Let them finish their careers please.

[p00h 85]

Manning has not played well in enough big games to be 2nd greatest all time.

 

I'm not getting into the debate about Brady, but no way Manning is #2 and Brady isn't #1 either. Not yet. Let them finish their careers please.

 

hey guys edjr has spoken, lets all listen!!!

 

 

LMAO

[southcarolina 166]

Well to be fair to Vick, Brady's jock is far too enormous to fit in one suitcase.

[FantasyBowl33 0]

Still wondering how Vick is even being considered for most valuable player? Most flashy, most exciting? Sure, but it's not as though he has taking the Eagles to new heights. McNabb led Philly to 11 wins last year himself. Kolb did pretty well when got in there himself, wouldn't doubt he could have brought them to the playoffs as well.

 

Again exciting as all hell to watch but that doesn't make him valuable.

[Jesus Christ 0]

Still wondering how Vick is even being considered for most valuable player? Most flashy, most exciting? Sure, but it's not as though he has taking the Eagles to new heights. McNabb led Philly to 11 wins last year himself. Kolb did pretty well when got in there himself, wouldn't doubt he could have brought them to the playoffs as well.

 

Again exciting as all hell to watch but that doesn't make him valuable.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Vick is must see TV but he is not the most valuable player in football.

[IGotWorms 3,367]

Still wondering how Vick is even being considered for most valuable player? Most flashy, most exciting? Sure, but it's not as though he has taking the Eagles to new heights. McNabb led Philly to 11 wins last year himself. Kolb did pretty well when got in there himself, wouldn't doubt he could have brought them to the playoffs as well.

 

Again exciting as all hell to watch but that doesn't make him valuable.

 

Absolutely. Brady is by far the MVP this year. Nobody else is even close, yet alone Michael Vick.

[TD Ryan2 315]

Brady has done next to nothing to decide the outcome of either game.

Against the Bills, he threw 27 times, completed 15 passes, for 140 yards (5.2 ypa - awful)... he vultures 3 goal-to-go, simple-as-it-gets, TD's...and he finishes with 107 QB rating.

He could very well have played these past 2 weeks with 300 combined yards, 3 INT's, and 1-2 TD's...which is likely a ~70ish QB rating.

 

first off... this is a nice discussion... good to see some quality, level-headed ideas being tossed around here.

 

now for the quote above: This is part of what espn and fantasy football has done to us as fans. You say Brady did "next to nothing" to decide those games... I couldn't disagree more.

No, he didn't have gaudy stats, but he controlled the tempo of those games. He managed (that's right, managed) every facet of that offense perfectly.

 

See, I've said it before Manning (and a host of other greats) are probably better pure passers than Brady; but Brady is machine like with how he manages everything from the clock, snap counts, to the play calls, every situation, every down/distance... and he's ruthlessly efficient with everything on the field. How Brady manages a game is what makes him so lethal and that doesn't show up in "volume" stats as much as it does "efficiency" stats.

 

And yes, Mike Vick is more exciting to watch than Brady... Vick is electric. Manning is a better pure passer... but Brady is an assasin, ruthless, efficient, cool, calm, ho-humIjustSlitYourThroat.

Ohand he probably does wear ladies underwear and Uggs legwarmers, I don't love his fashion-plate role off the field, but... it is what it is.

[CantTouchThis 23]

There is really no question Brady will/should get MVP. Best team, an absurd 17-2 INT ratio, 109 rating. And i dislike Tom Brady, but he is definitely MVP this year.

 

That being said, i would still rather have Vick. I thought Vick was wildly overrated in Atl and thought he should have got a much more harsh punishment for what he did as i am a big dog guy. However, i think he has redeemed himself in a big way, and he is a MUCH better QB now.

 

Vick's ridiculous athleticism and now that he can actually read defenses and throw the ball downfield and go through his progressions rather than taking off after his first 2 options were covered.

 

So, he is still the most dynamic player in the league and can throw the ball now. It's not fair.

[deejsixer 0]

Not only could Vick carry Bradys jock, but he would probably carry it for 60 yds and a touch.

[kmbryant09 1]

first off... this is a nice discussion... good to see some quality, level-headed ideas being tossed around here.

 

now for the quote above: This is part of what espn and fantasy football has done to us as fans. You say Brady did "next to nothing" to decide those games... I couldn't disagree more.

No, he didn't have gaudy stats, but he controlled the tempo of those games. He managed (that's right, managed) every facet of that offense perfectly.

 

See, I've said it before Manning (and a host of other greats) are probably better pure passers than Brady; but Brady is machine like with how he manages everything from the clock, snap counts, to the play calls, every situation, every down/distance... and he's ruthlessly efficient with everything on the field. How Brady manages a game is what makes him so lethal and that doesn't show up in "volume" stats as much as it does "efficiency" stats.

 

And yes, Mike Vick is more exciting to watch than Brady... Vick is electric. Manning is a better pure passer... but Brady is an assasin, ruthless, efficient, cool, calm, ho-humIjustSlitYourThroat.

Ohand he probably does wear ladies underwear and Uggs legwarmers, I don't love his fashion-plate role off the field, but... it is what it is.

I definitely agree with a lot of this - I usually try to look into stats as well...since all stats aren't 100% comparable because of surrounding factors.

 

I agree that Brady is as cool and collected as it gets...he's an assasin, he's a killer. But watching those three games (well, most of the Buffalo game, all of the Chicago game, and all of the Packer game) - Brady was not THE difference maker. In those games, he played very average. Did he manage the game clock? Motivate his teammates? Make adjustments? Yes, and probably much more. But he also should have thrown 4 INT's, and all but 1 or 2 of his TD passes were simple 2 yard throws that even the likes of Alex Smith or Vince Young could make. Do all QB's have some of those TD's? Or an occasional dropped INT? Absolutely, but it's very misleading when fans, media, voters will look at those games and say, "Wow, Brady had a 110 QB rating and broke the mark for most attempts without an INT" etc. etc. When in reality, he didn't play great, or even good, by his standards.

 

Look, I have A TON of respect for Brady, especially what he's done much of this season. Do I hate him? Yes, I hope he decides to sit out the playoffs and then retire after the season. Or at least just lose. But it's not like he deserves all this media/fan drooling because he manages the clock, snap counts, and play calling very well. Many, many QB's do. Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and a few others are so fun to watch because of how effective they are at handling themselves, and their offense while on the field.

[TD Ryan2 315]

fair response kmbryant.

you're right, Brady should have had 4 INTs in those games, the defenders were hit in the hands.

But in any "streak" like that, you'll always catch some breaks.

 

And maybe you are not impressed with a bunch of goal-to-go TD tosses... but it's one of those things that you don't appreciate until it's gone.

Not every QB makes it so easy. It can be argued that inside the 10 is the toughest area to move/pass the ball because the defense doesn't have to defend anything deep.

 

So Brady makes a bunch of short TD passes, he doesn't have any delay of games, has very few int's, and <insert any other football 101 fundamental here>.

Bottom Line: He doesn't beat himself. Ever (hardly). That a lot tougher to do than it sounds. To be so "mistake free" so often. Again, I realize that it isn't "sexy" but I really do believe this is what separates Brady. And I'm not looking to change your mind or try to make you like him, I just want you to understand my perspective and then say to yourself, "I get what TD's sayin', makes sense, but I hate that Brady and will take my guy in my laundry every day".

 

Happy New Year.

There's a fair chance NE and IND will be playing again not only in the playoffs but also in the regular season next year (if IND does win their div. again, it will happen... and I hope it does because it doesn't get much better than that matchup).

[kmbryant09 1]

fair response kmbryant.

you're right, Brady should have had 4 INTs in those games, the defenders were hit in the hands.

But in any "streak" like that, you'll always catch some breaks.

 

And maybe you are not impressed with a bunch of goal-to-go TD tosses... but it's one of those things that you don't appreciate until it's gone.

Not every QB makes it so easy. It can be argued that inside the 10 is the toughest area to move/pass the ball because the defense doesn't have to defend anything deep.

 

So Brady makes a bunch of short TD passes, he doesn't have any delay of games, has very few int's, and <insert any other football 101 fundamental here>.

Bottom Line: He doesn't beat himself. Ever (hardly). That a lot tougher to do than it sounds. To be so "mistake free" so often. Again, I realize that it isn't "sexy" but I really do believe this is what separates Brady. And I'm not looking to change your mind or try to make you like him, I just want you to understand my perspective and then say to yourself, "I get what TD's sayin', makes sense, but I hate that Brady and will take my guy in my laundry every day".

 

Happy New Year.

There's a fair chance NE and IND will be playing again not only in the playoffs but also in the regular season next year (if IND does win their div. again, it will happen... and I hope it does because it doesn't get much better than that matchup).

 

Very sensible posts, it's a refreshing change from some of the homerism debates go on around here.

 

You nailed it with the whole "not beating themselves" thing...And it's mind-boggling. Why do so many teams beat themselves? Not just against the Patriots, but around the league. It all starts with Brady, and the Patriots haven't beaten themselves in awhile. It's almost like they are just waiting for other teams to screw up.

 

Happy New Year to you too sir, and good luck to your Patriots in the postseason! Well, not really about that last part, but you know what I mean .

 

I'd love to meet you guys in the playoffs, but I still don't think we'll be healthy enough to make noise.....and that's even IF we make the playoffs!

[TD Ryan2 315]

You nailed it with the whole "not beating themselves" thing...And it's mind-boggling. Why do so many teams beat themselves? Not just against the Patriots, but around the league. It all starts with Brady, and the Patriots haven't beaten themselves in awhile. It's almost like they are just waiting for other teams to screw up.

 

even Pats fans don't know/understand exactly where this flawless, efficiency comes from: it's part of the Brady vs. Belichick debate.

I do believe it originates from Belichick.

It is no random coincidence that Brady broke the int-streak that was held by another Belichick QB (Kosar).

So while it starts at the coach, it takes a unique player to execute and echo that efficiency.

 

We see this with the lack of turnovers on the entire team. In the mid-2000's "glory days" NE had entire seasons where no WR or RB fumbled the ball. Even this year BGE, Woodhead, etc have 350+ carries an no fumbles.

 

And I don't mean to suggest here that Brady is less important... it take a one-in-a-million QB to be able to execute some genius coach's "utopia" version of football... without Brady, Belichick's vision is theoretical hogwash because no humans can play a game so flawlessly.

 

 

I believe that Brady's low draft position, limited pedigree, limited physical abilities/stature, etc is what made him so pliable for Belichick. Brady never had the golden-arm or pedigree of other great QBs like Manning, Elway, Marino, or even Bledsoe so it wasn't as hard for Belichick to "reign him in".

Telling Marino not to take risks and zip the ball into a spot that too far or too tight just isn't going to fly... an mayb not for Manning either... but it does with Brady.

Then you factor in that Brady has worked hard and improved on a lot of his physical deficiencies and you've got a recipe for success, lots of it.

[mobb_deep 919]

Well to be fair to Vick, Brady's jock is far too enormous to fit in one suitcase.

 

And Vick is more interested in killing dogs than carrying the jocks that hold them. Again, it's all about lack of effort with Vick.

[RoadLizard 73]

 

Now let's go stomp the Pats in the Foxboro!

 

The Jets? Worthless team. Did they actually win any games for real this year? The game will be over before the 2nd quarter starts.

[murf74 461]

MVP should be offensive line.

 

You cannot underestimate the time Brady has had in his career to sit back and go from 2nd to 3rd reads and then dump to a RB, etc.

 

Same goes with Manning.

 

I don't know if it's the line coach or what but these guys never get touched and they are able to sit back and go through their progressions.....most other QBs are running for their lives or on the ground if they can't hit #1 or hot read.

[kmbryant09 1]

even Pats fans don't know/understand exactly where this flawless, efficiency comes from: it's part of the Brady vs. Belichick debate.

I do believe it originates from Belichick.

It is no random coincidence that Brady broke the int-streak that was held by another Belichick QB (Kosar).

So while it starts at the coach, it takes a unique player to execute and echo that efficiency.

 

We see this with the lack of turnovers on the entire team. In the mid-2000's "glory days" NE had entire seasons where no WR or RB fumbled the ball. Even this year BGE, Woodhead, etc have 350+ carries an no fumbles.

 

And I don't mean to suggest here that Brady is less important... it take a one-in-a-million QB to be able to execute some genius coach's "utopia" version of football... without Brady, Belichick's vision is theoretical hogwash because no humans can play a game so flawlessly.

 

 

I believe that Brady's low draft position, limited pedigree, limited physical abilities/stature, etc is what made him so pliable for Belichick. Brady never had the golden-arm or pedigree of other great QBs like Manning, Elway, Marino, or even Bledsoe so it wasn't as hard for Belichick to "reign him in".

Telling Marino not to take risks and zip the ball into a spot that too far or too tight just isn't going to fly... an mayb not for Manning either... but it does with Brady.

Then you factor in that Brady has worked hard and improved on a lot of his physical deficiencies and you've got a recipe for success, lots of it.

Yeah, that's well written. I didn't know that Kosar set the mark while under Belichick too, that's interesting.

 

I know the term "game manager" sounds inherently demeaning, but I don't mean it that way...but I think Brady might be the best 'game managing' QB I've ever seen, probably of all-time. But from my perspective, it's hard to rank him with the all-time greats that have been asked to do much, much more for their teams. It's more of a complement to the pieces around Brady rather than a back-handed compliment. But he was able to take over a Super-Bowl caliber team right from the start...and therefor didn't need to throw 300+ yards, or 35+ times. He had a great run game, DEF, kicker, brilliant coach...and therefor only needed to be good, not great, in order for them to win. Was he great at being good? As awkward as that sounds, yes. But 2/3 of his SB rings came under those circumstances - when he wasn't asked to do much.

 

When I personally witness a player like Manning join the worst team in the league...and turn them into the most successful franchise in a decade ever...within 3 years (start of the decade), thats the ultimate compliment. I think sometimes we overlook just how big of a turn around he lead in Indianapolis because of some of the talent on the offensive side of the ball.

 

But either way, I think it's been an absolute privilege to watch these guys' careers unfold.

 

MVP should be offensive line.

 

You cannot underestimate the time Brady has had in his career to sit back and go from 2nd to 3rd reads and then dump to a RB, etc.

 

Same goes with Manning.

 

I don't know if it's the line coach or what but these guys never get touched and they are able to sit back and go through their progressions.....most other QBs are running for their lives or on the ground if they can't hit #1 or hot read.

You must not watch the Colts much. The mid-season stretch when Manning was struggling, he was getting hit more than he ever had at any point in his career.

[Jesus Christ 0]

No, Manning, Brady, the great one's get rid of the ball fast, they slide step, make protection calls, know defense before snap, eliminate certain receivers before the snap. it's what makes them great. Other QB's have stronger arms, better feet but none work like these guys do. Biggest difference in Vick this year is he has started to do some of these things.

[giraldi02 470]

MVP should be offensive line.

 

You cannot underestimate the time Brady has had in his career to sit back and go from 2nd to 3rd reads and then dump to a RB, etc.

 

Same goes with Manning.

 

I don't know if it's the line coach or what but these guys never get touched and they are able to sit back and go through their progressions.....most other QBs are running for their lives or on the ground if they can't hit #1 or hot read.

 

This is what made Vick's performance this year a candidate for the MVP. The eagles offensive line this year was devastated by injuries and make shift combinations. Part of the reason for Vicks running numbers were because he got little protection. Also, if you remember back to the early part of the season, it was the o-line that helped Andy decide Vick would be better than Kolb due to the lack in protection.

 

Now, Brady will win the MVP and justifiably so. But Vick did in fact do enough to keep it close until that disaster on Tuesday.

[The Moz 69]

If it's a QB contest then I am agreeing that Brady is looking like he distanced himself for the MVP. In a c@ck measurign contest but not liking the white dudes odds.

[IGotWorms 3,367]

MVP should be offensive line.

 

You cannot underestimate the time Brady has had in his career to sit back and go from 2nd to 3rd reads and then dump to a RB, etc.

 

Same goes with Manning.

 

I don't know if it's the line coach or what but these guys never get touched and they are able to sit back and go through their progressions.....most other QBs are running for their lives or on the ground if they can't hit #1 or hot read.

 

The real MVP might be Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots' offensive line coach. That man turns everything he touches into gold. The Pats lost Logan Mankins to a holdout and then lost his backup to injury. No problem, Scarnecchia had a no-name playing at a near Pro-Bowl level. Then Mankins came back and the line only got better (at least with run blocking). If you want to know why Brady usually has a ton of time to throw, it starts with Scarnecchia's coaching.

[Gepetto 995]

The real MVP might be Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots' offensive line coach. That man turns everything he touches into gold. The Pats lost Logan Mankins to a holdout and then lost his backup to injury. No problem, Scarnecchia had a no-name playing at a near Pro-Bowl level. Then Mankins came back and the line only got better (at least with run blocking). If you want to know why Brady usually has a ton of time to throw, it starts with Scarnecchia's coaching.

 

Coaches don't get or deserve Most Valuable PLAYER awards.

[IGotWorms 3,367]

Coaches don't get or deserve Most Valuable PLAYER awards.

 

No sh!t Sherlock.

[redtodd 7]

MVP should be offensive line.

 

You cannot underestimate the time Brady has had in his career to sit back and go from 2nd to 3rd reads and then dump to a RB, etc.

 

Same goes with Manning.

 

I don't know if it's the line coach or what but these guys never get touched and they are able to sit back and go through their progressions.....most other QBs are running for their lives or on the ground if they can't hit #1 or hot read.

 

[IGotWorms 3,367]

 

Yeah that is laughable to some extent. Offensive line is very important and some teams (like the Patriots) have built their o-line around protecting the QB. They are very good at it and that does make a big difference. But at the same time I'm pretty sure that a lot of people don't understand that the really elite QBs (like Brady and Manning and probably Brees) call the protection schemes at the line based on what they see from the defense. If you put a stupid QB behind the Patriots' offensive line, he probably wouldn't look a lot better than he would behind Chicago's OL.

[TD Ryan2 315]

but I think Brady might be the best 'game managing' QB I've ever seen, probably of all-time. I know the term "game manager" sounds inherently demeaning, but I don't mean it that way

I have no problem with the term. This is Brady's greatest attribute and IMO this attribute includes field-vision, play calls, protection schemes, clock management, and more much of it maybe "boring" or "unnoticed" but all of it every bit as important as " 6'6, Rocket Arm" whem it comes to winning football games.

 

 

When I personally witness a player like Manning join the worst team in the league...and turn them into the most successful franchise in a decade ever...within 3 years (start of the decade), thats the ultimate compliment. I think sometimes we overlook just how big of a turn around he lead in Indianapolis because of some of the talent on the offensive side of the ball.

 

But either way, I think it's been an absolute privilege to watch these guys' careers unfold.

not lost on me at all.

The Colts and Pats were once in the same division and were often competing in a blacked-out "A_Hole" Bowl while teams like the 49ers, Giants, and Bills were going to SuperBowls.

And Manning has had a bigger single handed role in turning around the Colts, there's no denying that.

 

For NE it was Parcells and The Kraft ownership in the 90s along with Drew Bledsoe and Curtis Martin.

But then it got shaky for a while under Pete Carrol.

Those '01 Patriots weren't really expected to do much... make the playoffs if lucky. NE had gone 5-11 and 8-8 in those seasons before Bledsoe was hurt and Brady took over.

So, while I agree Manning has had more of a single handed role turning the Colts around, I do think people forget how downhill things were going for NE before Bledsoe got hurt... that '01 team was not a great team at all, a bunch of journeymen and an upstart, unshakeable QB. Parcells and the '96 Desmond Howard/Brett Favre SuperBowl were ancient history by that point.