peenie

[IGotWorms 4,060]

"Race is a social construct." I don't get it. I have heard this phrase on numerous occasions but I just don't understand what it means.

 

Are you saying there aren't any real races of people? Like black, white, hispanic, asians, etc. are all made up?

 

[peenie 1,930]

we all have a common ancestor that originated from africa.

we're not even biologically as separate as breeds of dogs.

there was no such thing as race prior to the 1700's.

yes, ignorant scientists in the 1700's said there were races, but it was not based on real genetic traits, it was based on things like skull shape.

 

the way we classify races in the united states is not the way people are classified in other countries and some countries don't even have racial classifications.

 

knock yourself out

[phillybear 366]

we all have a common ancestor that originated from africa.

we're not even biologically as separate as breeds of dogs.

there was no such thing as race prior to the 1700's.

yes, ignorant scientists in the 1700's said there were races, but it was not based on real genetic traits, it was based on things like skull shape.

 

the way we classify races in the united states is not the way people are classified in other countries and some countries don't even have racial classifications.

 

knock yourself out

 

I made an effort to write thoughful, factual, impressive post to systematically refute your ideas. Which I deleted, since that is not appropriate for this site.

 

Carry on.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I think that it means, "I can use race when it works to my advantage, but it is nothing when it is not to my advantage".

[Riddlen 1]

race isnt a social construct. nor is racism. its human nature. people find like people and are scared/hate people that are different. race existed, it just wasnt defined as such, thats a huge stretch to claim it didnt exist. people hated the next village or anyone who spoke a different language or anyone who dressed differently or had a differnet god. same thing,

[peenie 1,930]

race isnt a social construct. nor is racism. its human nature. people find like people and are scared/hate people that are different. race existed, it just wasnt defined as such, thats a huge stretch to claim it didnt exist. people hated the next village or anyone who spoke a different language or anyone who dressed differently or had a differnet god. same thing,

 

can you read?

i was asked why i believe race is a social construct.

race certainly exists, but it is not based in BIOLOGY or in our GENES.

it is a social phenomena that we have been taught to believe is based in biology.

a long time ago, prior to when race was erroneously defined, people were not considered separate by things like skin color or bone structure or hair texture.

now, i'm not going to continue to argue with anyone about this issue.

feel free to look at the link i've posted or ask a college genetics professor.

i'm done.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

can you read?

i was asked why i believe race is a social construct.

race certainly exists, but it is not based in BIOLOGY or in our GENES.

it is a social phenomena that we have been taught to believe is based in biology.

a long time ago, prior to when race was erroneously defined, people were not considered separate by things like skin color or bone structure or hair texture.

now, i'm not going to continue to argue with anyone about this issue.

feel free to look at the link i've posted or ask a college genetics professor.

i'm done.

 

Now, this is where the thread would be deleted if peenie had started it.

 

I guess the hard part that I have with this is that animals treat others of the same species differently if they look differently. If "race" was this socially manufactured thing in humans after the 17th Century, then why is it manifested in the animal world?

[Strike 5,748]

Peenie, why do you hate Whitey?

 

[Bishop82 61]

Do I lose a post count if this thread get deleted?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Do I lose a post count if this thread get deleted?

 

This one won't get deleted because peenie can't delete it. For these threads, she just runs away because she can't delete them.

[peenie 1,930]

Now, this is where the thread would be deleted if peenie had started it.

 

I guess the hard part that I have with this is that animals treat others of the same species differently if they look differently. If "race" was this socially manufactured thing in humans after the 17th Century, then why is it manifested in the animal world?

 

different species treat each other differently, but does a black cat treat a white cat different??

does a brown dog treat a black dog different??

we are the same species!!!!!

[peenie 1,930]

Peenie, why do you hate Whitey?

 

 

lol! i don't hate you guys. you just get on my nerves.

[DankNuggs 305]

Its ethnicity that i guess is a valid concept, but race speaks to color more than ethnic lineage....

 

Pretty sure thats her point... You could have two racially black/white/brown/green guys that are ethnically completely different.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

different species treat each other differently, but does a black cat treat a white cat different??

does a brown dog treat a black dog different??

we are the same species!!!!!

 

Yes, they do. There are many times when dogs in a litter who are similar will treat the one that is different (size, color, etc.) much worse. They will push that one to the side. In other species, the baby that is different could be killed.

 

Let me ask you a simple question. If you are used to eating yellow bananas, if someone were to give you a red one, would you treat it any differently?

[kutulu 1,688]

 

 

Let me ask you a simple question. If you are used to eating yellow bananas, if someone were to give you a red one, would you treat it any differently?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OldMaid 2,133]

Yes, they do. There are many times when dogs in a litter who are similar will treat the one that is different (size, color, etc.) much worse. They will push that one to the side. In other species, the baby that is different could be killed.

 

Let me ask you a simple question. If you are used to eating yellow bananas, if someone were to give you a red one, would you treat it any differently?

Is banana code for cack in this senario?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Is banana code for cack in this senario?

 

Maybe in your case, Toots.

 

In peenie's case, she has told us many times that she does not believe in fellatio.

[peenie 1,930]

Yes, they do. There are many times when dogs in a litter who are similar will treat the one that is different (size, color, etc.) much worse. They will push that one to the side. In other species, the baby that is different could be killed.

 

Let me ask you a simple question. If you are used to eating yellow bananas, if someone were to give you a red one, would you treat it any differently?

animals that eat the runt of the litter is not based on coat color, but the fact that it is considered sickly or not well formed.

take a biology class, i don't have time for this.

i posted a wonderful link for you all, enlighten yourselves.

[nikki2200 4]

I have no idea what any of this is about. I guess it's from a thread that was deleted.

[peenie 1,930]

actually nikki, i was asked why i feel race is a social construct.

the old thread is really not significant to the question.

race exists, but it is not based in biology or in our genes.

ask a scientist.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

animals that eat the runt of the litter is not based on coat color, but the fact that it is considered sickly or not well formed.

take a biology class, i don't have time for this.

i posted a wonderful link for you all, enlighten yourselves.

 

Ummm. I have taken biology and I do have a college degree. I know that you are busy deleting threads, so I won't bother you anymore with your well thought out responses and open mind.

[Dick Hertz 1]

lol! i don't hate you guys. you just get on my nerves.

 

 

frau

[OldMaid 2,133]

Maybe in your case, Toots.

 

In peenie's case, she has told us many times that she does not believe in fellatio.

I wonder if that's because black "bananas" are hard to "eat"? Allegedly. Either way, I draw the line at red ones.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

actually nikki, i was asked why i feel race is a social construct.

the old thread is really not significant to the question.

race exists, but it is not based in biology or in our genes.

ask a scientist.

 

You said it in the old thread and it's something I've seen you said numerous times: race is a social construct.

 

And I also heard that a time or two in college, although to be honest I never figured out what the person saying it actually meant by that. I don't have a biology or sciences background so this stuff does not come naturally to me.

 

Anyway I will check out that PBS link when I have a chance.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I wonder if that's because black "bananas" are hard to "eat"? Allegedly. Either way, I draw the line at red ones.

 

Really? Have you ever had a black "banana" before?

[kutulu 1,688]

frau

 

I think you meant fro.

[naomi 356]

Its ethnicity that i guess is a valid concept, but race speaks to color more than ethnic lineage....

 

Pretty sure thats her point... You could have two racially black/white/brown/green guys that are ethnically completely different.

And there's no significant genetic variation between humans based on phenotype distinctions (contrasting characteristics visible to the eye). The knee-jerk sense of race is a person of another race (technically a paradox) has genetic makeup that really sets them apart from you. If their skin can look totally different, there must be a lot of other differences too. Since most variation between humans happens on an individual level, not even a geographic one, it's possible for Michael Jordan to have more in common genetically with Donald Trump than Chris Rock.

 

Templeton analyzed genetic data from mitochondrial DNA, a form inherited only from the maternal side; Y chromosome DNA, paternally inherited DNA; and nuclear DNA, inherited from both sexes. His results showed that 85 percent of genetic variation in the human DNA was due to individual variation. A mere 15 percent could be traced to what could be interpreted as "racial" differences.

 

"The 15 percent is well below the threshold that is used to recognize race in other species," Templeton said. "In many other large mammalian species, we see rates of differentiation two or three times that of humans before the lineages are even recognized as races. Humans are one of the most genetically homogenous species we know of. There's lots of genetic variation in humanity, but it's basically at the individual level. The between-population variation is very, very minor."

 

Among Templeton's conclusions: There is more genetic similarity between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans and between Europeans and Melanesians, inhabitants of islands northeast of Australia, than there is between Africans and Melanesians. Yet, sub-Saharan Africans and Melanesians share dark skin, hair texture and cranial-facial features, traits commonly used to classify people into races. According to Templeton, this example shows that "racial traits" are grossly incompatible with overall genetic differences between human populations.

"The pattern of overall genetic differences instead tells us that genetic lineages rapidly spread out to all of humanity, indicating that human populations have always had a degree of genetic contact with one another, and thus historically don't show any distinct evolutionary lineages within humanity," Templeton said.

 

this one is more in-depth, makes my head hurt

 

The average proportion of nucleotide differences between a randomly chosen pair of humans (i.e., average nucleotide diversity, or pi) is consistently estimated to lie between 1 in 1,000 and 1 in 1,500. This proportion is low compared with those of many other species.

 

When it finally becomes feasible and available, individual genetic assessment of relevant genes will probably prove more useful than race in medical decision making. In the meantime, ethnicity or race may in some cases provide useful information in biomedical contexts, just as other categories, such as gender or age, do. But the potential usefulness of race must be balanced against potential hazards. Ignorance of the shared nature of population variation can lead to diagnostic errors (e.g., the failure to diagnose sickle-cell disease in a European individual or cystic fibrosis in an Asian individual) or to inappropriate treatment or drug prescription. The general public, including policy-makers, are easily seduced by typological thinking, and so they must be made aware of the genetic data that help to prove it wrong.

Race remains an inflammatory issue, both socially and scientifically. Fortunately, modern human genetics can deliver the salutary message that human populations share most of their genetic variation and that there is no scientific support for the concept that human populations are discrete, nonoverlapping entities. Furthermore, by offering the means to assess disease-related variation at the individual level, new genetic technologies may eventually render race largely irrelevant in the clinical setting. Thus, genetics can and should be an important tool in helping to both illuminate and defuse the race issue.

[OldMaid 2,133]

Really? Have you ever had a black "banana" before?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

Hey, either we go there with this or we have to let peenie take us down a rat hole. I figure your sexual exploits are much more interesting.

[OldMaid 2,133]

Hey, either we go there with this or we have to let peenie take us down a rat hole. I figure your sexual exploits are much more interesting.

My exploits these days are

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

My exploits these days are

 

I am okay with old stories. Try me.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I've taken my fair share of genetics classes, and she is correct - we are all Homo sapiens sapiens. That doesn't discount genetic diversity among individuals; there just aren't enough clustered genotypic differences to define geneticall different races in humans. There is more diversity within our species than between us and our nearest living relative, the chimpanzee.

 

This is why I am a big fan of chimps' rights.

[OldMaid 2,133]

I am okay with old stories. Try me.

I will take those secrets to the grave... or until I get really drunk and you ask me again.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I've taken my fair share of genetics classes, and she is correct - we are all Homo sapiens sapiens. That doesn't discount genetic diversity among individuals; there just aren't enough clustered genotypic differences to define geneticall different races in humans. There is more diversity within our species than between us and our nearest living relative, the chimpanzee.

 

This is why I am a big fan of chimps' rights.

 

Genetically, we are the same. That does not mean that race is a social construct.

 

Let's see if this helps. We all look different, right?

 

Is there a bias against short people? Hell yes.

Is there a bias for better looking people? Studies say so.

Are both of these social constructs and not rooted in something biological? I don't think so. I think that the minute that we start to think that society made us do something, then we are copping out. Wouldn't it just be better to say that I do see color of skin and that I have to consciously make an effort to ignore any biological impulse to treat the person different?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I will take those secrets to the grave... or until I get really drunk and you ask me again.

 

Which should be in less than 4-5 hours.

[MDC 7,590]

She's right - the phenotype for dark skin and hair is an extremely small part of genetic makeup. A Caucasian / light skinned person can genetically have more in common with a black person than another Caucasian.

[jerryskids 6,926]

She's right - the phenotype for dark skin and hair is an extremely small part of genetic makeup. A Caucasian / light skinned person can genetically have more in common with a black person than another Caucasian.

While that may be true, I see a lot of "lying with statistics" in this thread. The distributions of genetic makeups between two races clearly overlap (hell, we are the same species after all), but that doesn't mean there aren't different distributions.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Genetically, we are the same. That does not mean that race is a social construct.

 

Let's see if this helps. We all look different, right?

 

Is there a bias against short people? Hell yes.

Is there a bias for better looking people? Studies say so.

Are both of these social constructs and not rooted in something biological? I don't think so. I think that the minute that we start to think that society made us do something, then we are copping out. Wouldn't it just be better to say that I do see color of skin and that I have to consciously make an effort to ignore any biological impulse to treat the person different?

Are short or ugly people a different race?

[BunnysBastatrds 2,511]

Really? Have you ever had a black "banana" before?

 

 

She lives in California. Dumb question.

[peenie 1,930]

Genetically, we are the same. That does not mean that race is a social construct.

 

Let's see if this helps. We all look different, right?

 

Is there a bias against short people? Hell yes.

Is there a bias for better looking people? Studies say so.

Are both of these social constructs and not rooted in something biological? I don't think so. I think that the minute that we start to think that society made us do something, then we are copping out. Wouldn't it just be better to say that I do see color of skin and that I have to consciously make an effort to ignore any biological impulse to treat the person different?

your statement proves the point about socialization and bias.

in the united states there is a bias against short people since the dominant culture finds tall people beautiful.

that bias does not exist in countries where everyone is short (japan/thailand).

is there a bias against better looking people?

well who decides who is good looking?

the dominant culture.

what is good looking is what society tells you is attractive.

our culture is western based/eurocentric so those beauty standards are appreciated and upheld.

 

i focking hate that i'm arguing this issue with you!!! read a book!!!