Police: Boy, 7, shot to death at Pa. gun store

[edjr 6,711]

MERCER, Pa. (AP) — A man's handgun went off while he was holding it as he got into his truck in the parking lot of a western Pennsylvania gun store Saturday, and the shot killed his 7-year-old son, authorities said.

 

Joseph V. Loughrey, 44, of Sharpsville, was getting into the truck when the 9 mm handgun discharged, wounding Craig Allen Loughrey in the chest, according to state police. The boy died at the scene at Twigs Reloading Den in East Lackawannock Township, 60 miles north of Pittsburgh.

 

Investigators said Loughrey told them he didn't realize there was a bullet still in the chamber. "This happens all too often where people think the gun was empty," Lt. Eric Hermick told The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

 

Loughrey was trying to sell two guns at the store — one a scope rifle and the other, the handgun, state police said. The owners told Loughrey the store doesn't buy guns so Loughrey and his son returned to the truck with them. Loughrey put the boy in the passenger seat and loaded the rifle into the truck, state police said. He was attempting to get inside and reached to put the handgun in the center storage console when it fired, they said.

 

Loughrey was questioned by state police, who said he was cooperative and distraught. The shooting is being investigated as an accident, although Loughrey could face charges, including manslaughter and negligence, Hermick told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

 

"I know that little kid was everything to him," Mark McLaughlin of Fredonia, a friend and co-worker of Loughrey's at Superior Well Services in Fredonia, told the Tribune-Review.

 

 

...

[wiffleball 4,793]

I'm not a gun expert. Are there really guns that go off simply at random? If so, why did they invent the trigger?

 

"The gun went off". What is it - a focking wild stallion that got spooked by a loud noise?

 

I don't care if there's ten in the chamber. Isn't there some kind of - ya know - mechanism or whatnot that makes ya know - explosive projectiles leave the chamber? I've never heard of say, an oven, camera, faucet or lysol container just "go off".

 

What, gun experts, praytell, am I missing here? Do guns go off simply because you grab the grip the wrong way? Because you startle them? Because "Call me Maybe" comes on the car radio?

 

Because seriously, we've banned more shiit for FAR motherfocking less (blinds, cribs, detergent balls) than this by a LONG focking-shot.

[ZeroTolerance 584]

"Guns didn't kill my son. I killed my son."

[Saint Elistan 106]

I'm not a gun expert. Are there really guns that go off simply at random? If so, why did they invent the trigger?

 

"The gun went off". What is it - a focking wild stallion that got spooked by a loud noise?

 

I don't care if there's ten in the chamber. Isn't there some kind of - ya know - mechanism or whatnot that makes ya know - explosive projectiles leave the chamber? I've never heard of say, an oven, camera, faucet or lysol container just "go off".

 

What, gun experts, praytell, am I missing here? Do guns go off simply because you grab the grip the wrong way? Because you startle them? Because "Call me Maybe" comes on the car radio?

 

Because seriously, we've banned more shiit for FAR motherfocking less (blinds, cribs, detergent balls) than this by a LONG focking-shot.

 

Can't say I understand that one either...most guns require a good bit of intent to get the trigger pulled.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,284]

I'm not a gun expert. Are there really guns that go off simply at random? If so, why did they invent the trigger?

 

"The gun went off". What is it - a focking wild stallion that got spooked by a loud noise?

 

I don't care if there's ten in the chamber. Isn't there some kind of - ya know - mechanism or whatnot that makes ya know - explosive projectiles leave the chamber? I've never heard of say, an oven, camera, faucet or lysol container just "go off".

 

What, gun experts, praytell, am I missing here? Do guns go off simply because you grab the grip the wrong way? Because you startle them? Because "Call me Maybe" comes on the car radio?

 

Because seriously, we've banned more shiit for FAR motherfocking less (blinds, cribs, detergent balls) than this by a LONG focking-shot.

Depending on the gun, it really doesnt take much pressure for the trigger to be depressed. You always always ALWAYS check the chamber thoroughly to make sure there isnt a round still inside. You can take the clip out but if a round is still in the chamber it can still be fired.

 

You should also never point a gun at anyone no matter what in these instances (no focking ######). The guy is probably very experinced and just got complacent. Honestly, the ones who know the most are often the most dangerous because they get away from the protocols since they have been doing it a long time.

 

I did point my hand gun all over the house when i first bought it but i dont even own ammo yet. Soon as i buy some ammo that will never happen again.

[drobeski 3,061]

That will teach the kid to ask for skittles again.

[tikigods 76]

Guns are dangerous. Complacency will get you killed.

[wiffleball 4,793]

dont these things have safeties?

[5-Points 3,650]

Dumbass should've cleared the chamber. He knew he was taking the guns inside the store. It is his responsibility to render those firearms safe.

[BLS 314]

The gun is always loaded

 

Never point the gun at anything you don't wish to kill or destroy.

 

Keep your finger off the trigger until you have your sights on the target and are ready to fire.

 

Always know your target and what's beyond.

 

 

These rules were created for a reason. To be followed.

[edjr 6,711]

Should have done the world a favor by shooting himself, like every other gun owner should do.

[Blitzen 1]

If the kid had owned a gun, he could've shot his dad in self-defense.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,284]

Should have done the world a favor by shooting himself, like every other gun owner should do.

[TheBlade 3]

dont these things have safeties?

Depends on the gun. Some do, some don't.

 

I have a Glock that has several safety mechanisms, but they wouldn't have stopped this situation from happening. These are easily defeated in the normal firing process.

 

The Smith and Wesson M&P handguns have similar safety mechanisms to Glocks.

 

I've also had 2 Sig Saur handguns. Neither of them have safeties, but they have a long, heavy first trigger pull, around 12 pounds.

 

There are many others out there that do have actual safeties on them.

[drobeski 3,061]

I blame video game dorks

[GobbleDog 1,004]

Someday (75 or 100+ years), the sale of firearms and ammunition will be outlawed in the US. With each passing tragedy the percentage of Americans favoring such a ban inches up.

 

Just stating the obvious.

[Frank M 181]

If the kid had owned a gun, he could've shot his dad in self-defense.

 

Quality. Nicely done.

 

[[echo] 82]

Should have done the world a favor by shooting himself, like every other gun owner should do.

 

good lord this may one of the most insane, intollerant statements ever uttered.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

' date='10 December 2012 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1355162161' post='4920546']

good lord this may one of the most insane, intollerant statements ever uttered.

Abortion is EJ's weapon of choice.

[[echo] 82]

Abortion is EJ's weapon of choice.

 

too bad it wasnt his moms...

 

(i had too.. it was slow pitch softball...)

[GobbleDog 1,004]

Until they're outlawed, this country will continue to pay a heavy price for our gun rights. Movie theater shootings, school massacres, countess deaths/injuries, etc.

 

It ain't worth it IMO.

[Blitzen 1]

Until they're outlawed, this country will continue to pay a heavy price for our gun rights. Movie theater shootings, school massacres, countess deaths/injuries, etc.

 

It ain't worth it IMO.

 

See I think guns are stupid but I don't think a gun law would prevent crazies and morons from getting them. Just like speeding laws don't prevent crazies and morons from speeding.

[BLS 314]

Depends on the gun. Some do, some don't.

 

I have a Glock that has several safety mechanisms, but they wouldn't have stopped this situation from happening. These are easily defeated in the normal firing process.

 

The Smith and Wesson M&P handguns have similar safety mechanisms to Glocks.

 

I've also had 2 Sig Saur handguns. Neither of them have safeties, but they have a long, heavy first trigger pull, around 12 pounds.

 

There are many others out there that do have actual safeties on them.

 

 

You have a Glock with a safety on it?

 

 

 

Besides the 'safe action trigger' and the striker only being half-cocked, I don't know of any Glocks with a safety on it. (I don't consider either being a real safety, but that's an opinion...in either case, simply pressing the trigger defeats both.....not much of a safety IMO)

 

The Sig's heavy trigger pull is similar to the Beretta M9 as that it's a Double Action on the first round and single on each consecutive.

 

This can be remedied by simply cocking the external hammer though. Is it a safety? 12lbs isn't fun, but it's not a ton of pressure. Most kids can pull 12lbs worth of trigger; wouldn't you agree?

[GobbleDog 1,004]

I don't think a gun law would prevent crazies and morons from getting them.

If the sale of firearms and ammunition was outlawed, it would absolutely be much more difficult to obtain a gun. And that difficulty would increase with each passing year.

 

I won't live to see it, but it'll happen. Currently I'd guess only 40-45% of Americans support such a ban, but with each tragedy that percentage goes up.

[BLS 314]

If the sale of firearms and ammunition was outlawed, it would absolutely be much more difficult to obtain a gun. And that difficulty would increase with each passing year.

 

I won't live to see it, but it'll happen. Currently I'd guess only 40-45% of Americans support such a ban, but with each tragedy that percentage goes up.

 

 

And don't you believe that would create a black market and that crime would go UP subsequently?

Look at Countries that have banned handguns.....their violent crimes go through the roof.

 

Freedom always comes with a pricetag. If you don't like it, you're FREE to move elsewhere.

[5-Points 3,650]

I won't live to see it, but it'll happen. Currently I'd guess only 40-45% of Americans support such a ban, but with each tragedy that percentage goes up.

Or maybe not...

 

Following the 2008 election, however, support for stricter gun laws dropped off considerably. By April 2010, Pew Research found more Americans placing greater importance on protecting the rights of gun owners (49 percent) than on restricting gun ownership (45 percent).

 

My link

 

With any luck, this trend of level headed thinking will continue and the emotional, knee-jerk reactionaries will cease being a hinderance to freedom.

[GobbleDog 1,004]

And don't you believe that would create a black market and that crime would go UP subsequently?

Look at Countries that have banned handguns.....their violent crimes go through the roof.

Yes, it would create a black market.

 

Violent crime hasn't gone through the roof in UK or Australia sine legislation passed in the mid 90's.

[hoytdwow 202]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWunQIGUcl0

[GobbleDog 1,004]

With any luck, this trend of level headed thinking will continue and the emotional, knee-jerk reactionaries will cease being a hinderance to freedom.

Whether or not you think it's right, you don't think strict gun control is inevitable in this country?

 

I do. Probably many, many years from now, but inevitable none the less.

[BLS 314]

Yes, it would create a black market.

 

Violent crime hasn't gone through the roof in UK or Australia sine legislation passed in the mid 90's.

 

 

You SURE about that?

 

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/07/23/do-gun-bans-reduce-violent-crime-ask-the-aussies-and-brits/

 

 

 

In 2002 — five years after enacting its gun ban — the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.Even Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

 

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.

Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.

Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

 

Moreover, Australia and the United States — where no gun-ban exists — both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

 

 

 

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7 percent.

During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.

Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.

Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.

Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

 

 

 

 

Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold.

 

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

 

In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold.

 

In eighteen police areas, gun crime at least doubled.

 

The statistic will fuel fears that the police are struggling to contain gang-related violence, in which the carrying of a firearm has become increasingly common place.

 

Last week, police in London revealed they had begun carrying out armed patrols on some streets.

 

 

 

 

[Cruzer 1,995]

At least he wasn't driving drunk, that would of been really bad.

[GobbleDog 1,004]

Wikipedia linkage

Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined 47%.

 

[[echo] 82]

You SURE about that?

 

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/07/23/do-gun-bans-reduce-violent-crime-ask-the-aussies-and-brits/

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

 

[5-Points 3,650]

Whether or not you think it's right, you don't think strict gun control is inevitable in this country?

 

I do. Probably many, many years from now, but inevitable none the less.

I don't think it's inevitable. Common sense could make a comeback in this country.

 

On the other hand, if people choose to let emotion override logic then we will see the continued errosion of freedom that could result in the passage of draconian gun laws. Thankfully, I won't be around to see it.

[TheBlade 3]

You have a Glock with a safety on it?

 

 

 

Besides the 'safe action trigger' and the striker only being half-cocked, I don't know of any Glocks with a safety on it. (I don't consider either being a real safety, but that's an opinion...in either case, simply pressing the trigger defeats both.....not much of a safety IMO)

 

The Sig's heavy trigger pull is similar to the Beretta M9 as that it's a Double Action on the first round and single on each consecutive.

 

This can be remedied by simply cocking the external hammer though. Is it a safety? 12lbs isn't fun, but it's not a ton of pressure. Most kids can pull 12lbs worth of trigger; wouldn't you agree?

The trigger safety on my Glock is what I'm talking about. IIRC, Glock literature says they have like 7 or 9 safety mechanisms built into the gun, including the trigger safety. I'm with you, I don't call any of them safeties. The gun is basically point and click with a round in the chamber and a 5.5 pound trigger pull.

 

As for the Sigs, yes, it's because of the double action first pull. Subsequent pulls all have very short travel and only take about 2 pounds to break. I don't consider the heavy first pull any sort of safety and totally agree that any child old enough to pick it up could pull the trigger.

 

I think we're both on the same page. I was simply pointing out to Wiffle that several guns exist that don't have any safeties on them.

[GobbleDog 1,004]

On the other hand, if people choose to let emotion override logic...

 

gun ownership pros <<<< gun ownership cons

 

[edjr 6,711]

' date='10 December 2012 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1355162161' post='4920546']

good lord this may one of the most insane, intollerant statements ever uttered.

 

You should start the new trend. you big tough guy, gun owner and shoot yourself in the face.

 

Make sure to record it and leave a note stating other gun owners to do the same.

[[echo] 82]

You should start the new trend. you big tough guy, gun owner and shoot yourself in the face.

 

Make sure to record it and leave a note stating other gun owners to do the same.

 

im the "big tough guy" ?? .. you're telling people to go kill themselves, i simply stated that you were an idiot and intollerant, well.. thanks for proving me right with an exclamation point. well done.

[TheBlade 3]

gun ownership pros <<<< gun ownership cons

 

This one depends totally on your perspective.

 

There's a legitimate argument that the 2nd Amendment is there for individuals to arm and protect themselves against an overzealous/dictatorial government. But it's also so that militias can be formed to protect the country from outside attacks. From what I understand, one of the biggest reasons why Japan didn't try a mainland invasion when they attacked Pearl Harbor was because of their belief that their soldiers would be facing a well armed America and that there'd be an American with a gun behind every blade of grass.

 

I'm not a gun nut. I only own 3 guns that are all work related. I'm fixing to buy an AR15 that is work related also. I had no guns prior to getting into law enforcement. That being said, with the circumstances that this country was founded on, I'm a hardcore believer in the 2nd Amendment. Any administration that comes in and tries to take that away causes me legitimate concern. I know many don't ever think that our democracy could topple, but every dictatorial form of government keeps guns out of the hands of its citizenry in order to maintain control and rule. An unarmed citizenry cannot rise up against a well armed government.

[GobbleDog 1,004]

I think we're both on the same page. I was simply pointing out to Wiffle that several guns exist that don't have any safeties on them.

Yep. My S&W 9 mm ain't got no safety. The gun sucks though because the trigger has way too big of a spring holding it (i guess for safety). Feels like it takes 8 lbs of pressure to pull the trigger, which really screws up accuracy. I have a better chance of hitting the target by the throwing the damn gun at it.