Is this racist? to call a spade a spade?

[The Moz 71]

Take a Major City - for this example take the biggest NYC.

 

95% of all violent crime is committed by blacks or hispanics (80% by blacks) in NYC - maybe the % is even higher as I have read 98% of gun assaults - I went 95% to make for wiggle room. Look at the schools and the percentages almost mirror that of violent crimes when looking at violent behavior in schools.

 

Go Nationally and you find 75% of violent crime is blacks 15-20% Hispanics and the rest split between White's, Asians, Hindu's , Arabs , etc.

 

So based on this is "RACIST" to say that Black people are inherently violent. That they are just violent people by nature with high levels of hostile aggression. There are more Hispanics than Blacks or at least equal yet Blacks far and away commit way more crime - yet both are poor by nature.

 

Can it be racist to call Blacks (Africans) a Violent people by nature?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

I thought that crime was more driven by socio-economic reasons than skin color. Maybe your doctoral thesis should try to show a causal link here.

[RLLD 4,275]

I am not sure, I would likely think that economics have more to do with it than race, really. As it happens, african americans traditionally have struggled to succeed economically due to lack of access to education and jobs etc.

 

But, I do think that violence is a celebrated facet of African American culture, and that segement of our society is more likely to use violence as a tool

[Phurfur 70]

All you have to do is look at what Black people do to each other in Africa and all questions are answered.

[The Moz 71]

I thought that crime was more driven by socio-economic reasons than skin color. Maybe your doctoral thesis should try to show a causal link here.

Which is being disproved -- when Hispanics are more numerous , start out just as poor , and yet commit maybe 1/3 of the crime that blacks do.

 

Yeah maybe Hispanic better their situations by more actively seeking employment and taking better care of their hoods.

[MDC 7,652]

 

So based on this is "RACIST" to say that Black people are inherently violent. That they are just violent people by nature with high levels of hostile aggression.

Are you accounting at all for socioeconomic or cultural issues?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Which is being disproved -- when Hispanics are more numerous , start out just as poor , and yet commit maybe 1/3 of the crime that blacks do.

 

Yeah maybe Hispanic better their situations by more actively seeking employment and taking better care of their hoods.

 

See, you have the starting point for your doctoral thesis. Now all you have to do is get some actual data and filter out all other factors and you have your causal link!

[Casual Observer 597]

Moz,

 

Test your own hypothesis. Find an area of the country comprised mainly of poor whites. Then check crime statistics for that area and see how it stacks up. The FBI used to compile that data, sliced a number of ways. I don't know if it does anymore, but there may be other sources out there.

[JTB 52]

As long as you call a club a club, a diamond a diamond and a heart a heart I don't have a problem with you calling a spade a spade Moz.

[KSB2424 3,153]

Poor and uneducated people commit crimes. I don't care what race or skin color. Thats the fact.

 

With that said, and what drives the sterotypes Moz is exposing is the large segment of African American's acceptance of violence/crime. It may a Chicken or the Egg arguement, but regardless, a large segment of the African American public accepts rap music talking about guns/crime/violence. It's looked down upon to be successful in something besides entertainment/sports sometimes, you'll be an Uncle Tom if you will. Being 'gangsta' is cool, even for middle class black folks. I think that tangent is what feeds the sterotypes that Moz alludes too. Maybe unfairly, but its there nontheless.

 

 

However the bottom line is that being poor and uneducated is the root of most all crime. Except the crazies. Those are normally middle class white men who are freaks.

[The Moz 71]

Moz,

 

Test your own hypothesis. Find an area of the country comprised mainly of poor whites. Then check crime statistics for that area and see how it stacks up. The FBI used to compile that data, sliced a number of ways. I don't know if it does anymore, but there may be other sources out there.

Is this part of the country with poor whites also going to have a proportional number of blacks? So you think a city like New York is not a good example?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Poor and uneducated people commit crimes. I don't care what race or skin color. Thats the fact.

 

With that said, and what drives the sterotypes Moz is exposing is the large segment of African American's acceptance of violence/crime. It may a Chicken or the Egg arguement, but regardless, a large segment of the African American public accepts rap music talking about guns/crime/violence. It's looked down upon to be successful in something besides entertainment/sports sometimes, you'll be an Uncle Tom if you will. Being 'gangsta' is cool, even for middle calls black folks. I think that tangent is what feeds the sterotypes that Moz alludes too.

 

 

However the bottom line is that being poor and uneducated is the root of most all crime. Except the crazies. Those are normally middle class white men who are freaks.

 

I think that there is a lot of black-on-black crime in those areas and there may be some cultural reasons why they don't like to talk to the po-po as well. It all has to go into his footnotes on the thesis.

[Bishop82 61]

I'd stick to the original thesis of "Why people from Philly are dooshbags" instead.

 

I blame the lack of quality sports teams.

[The Moz 71]

Moz,

 

Test your own hypothesis. Find an area of the country comprised mainly of poor whites. Then check crime statistics for that area and see how it stacks up. The FBI used to compile that data, sliced a number of ways. I don't know if it does anymore, but there may be other sources out there.

Also I just compared Blacks and Hispanics and in an area where both are of equal population blacks are literally 3X more likely to commit a violent crime. 5X more likely to have violence in there schools.

 

Tell me how this is? If anything blacks are given more advantages yet it's the hispanics and there work ethic that prevail.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

I'd stick to the original thesis of "Why people from Philly are dooshbags" instead.

 

I blame the lack of quality sports teams.

 

That is so boring, though. It would be like trying to explain why water is wet.

[Phurfur 70]

Wow, we have a bunch of Morons who are stuck in the 60s and still believe in the Great Society!

[Recliner Pilot 61]

This thread is gonna make Worms' head explode.

 

I hope someone around him has a tissue to clean up the brain matter.

[Casual Observer 597]

Is this part of the country with poor whites also going to have a proportional number of blacks? So you think a city like New York is not a good example?

 

No, I don't think it will be proportional at all. But that's the point, you're trying to isolate a different group - poor whites - and see how they behave. Then you can compare that to other crime data by race, particularly violent crime. Does the mosty-white area commit the same type of crime at the same rate or does it differ somehow? It seems like the answer to that question may shed some light on your inquiry.

[Phurfur 70]

 

No, I don't think it will be proportional at all. But that's the point, you're trying to isolate a different group - poor whites - and see how they behave. Then you can compare that to other crime data by race, particularly violent crime. Does the mosty-white area commit the same type of crime at the same rate or does it differ somehow? It seems like the answer to that question may shed some light on your inquiry.

Look and the crime rates in West Virginia's Appalachia and then you can shut up. MK-Ultra

[The Moz 71]

 

No, I don't think it will be proportional at all. But that's the point, you're trying to isolate a different group - poor whites - and see how they behave. Then you can compare that to other crime data by race, particularly violent crime. Does the mosty-white area commit the same type of crime at the same rate or does it differ somehow? It seems like the answer to that question may shed some light on your inquiry.

huh? Just about every area can be considered mostly white???

 

New York is

white - 47%

black - 26%

hispanic - 28%

Asian 11%

 

about 8 1/2 million people total.

 

that to you isn't proportional?

 

The number of Blacks to hispanics is basically equal and provides a great testing sample.

[Casual Observer 597]

Look and the crime rates in West Virginia's Appalachia and then you can shut up. MK-Ultra

Why would I shut up? I was going to suggest Eastern Kentucky, which is mostly white and poor (around 97% or close to it). Take a look at the violent crime rates there and let's see what that data shows.

 

Do you know the answer to the above question, or are you just on MK-Ultra blast today?

[Casual Observer 597]

huh? Just about every area can be considered mostly white???

 

New York is

white - 47%

black - 26%

hispanic - 28%

Asian 11%

 

about 8 1/2 million people total.

 

that to you isn't proportional?

 

The number of Blacks to hispanics is basically equal and provides a great testing sample.

That's not mostly white. You're trying to isolate a group, get violent crime rates and then compare. See my message to Phurfur on Eastern Kentucky.

[The Moz 71]

Why would I shut up? I was going to suggest Eastern Kentucky, which is mostly white and poor (around 97% or close to it). Take a look at the violent crime rates there and let's see what that data shows.

 

Do you know the answer to the above question, or are you just on MK-Ultra blast today?

I thought you said you wanted something proportional -- WTF are you talking about go to an all white area where you know it has to all white's doing the crimes.

 

Tell you what fine take Harlan County KY and put it against some all black poor area in the south and see the crime comparison - at least I hope thats what you meant as the other way just makes no sense.

[Casual Observer 597]

I thought you said you wanted something proportional -- WTF are you talking about go to an all white area where you know it has to all white's doing the crimes.

 

Tell you what fine take Harlan County KY and put it against some all black poor area in the south and see the crime comparison - at least I hope thats what you meant as the other way just makes no sense.

No I want to take a look at as close to a poor all-white area as I can find and see what that group's violent crime behavior is. So no, I don't want proportional. I thought I made that clear. Your second sentence has it right. Let's put the questions another way: Do poor whites commit violent crime at the same rate as poor black and hispanic minorities? If the answer is no and the poor white violent crime rate is lower than the minority violent crime rate, then can we eliminate poverty as a motivator or excuse for violent crime?

[rholio 339]

Were blacks involved in a higher rate of crime in the 20's, 30's, 40's, etc? That should help you find an answer. Black culture has grown to embrace violence and crime at a higher rate since at least the 60's, and especially the 70's and 80's. That could be a cause of the problem, or a symptom of the problem.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,537]

When the movie "The Warriors" came out, me and my friends decided we needed to start a gang in our suburbanite neighborhood. We were The Spades. All four of us white boys carried an ace of spade card in our velcro wallets to show how bad ass we were. We used to stand on the side of the road and spade cars. Which was basically waiting for the cars to come down the street and we'd scream and yell at the driver as they drove by. We owned those quiet streets. Untill one day when our leaders uncle found out about the gang. He wasn't so much pissed off that some ten year olds were terrorizing cars. He was pissed that we named our gand after black folks. Uncle Racist: Do ya'll little bastards even know what a spade is? It's a n***er you dumbass's.

 

The Spades dibanded that very afternoon. We al threw away our spade cards, stopped spading cars, and never spoke of it again. As a former Spade, please don't call me a Spade.

[The Moz 71]

No I want to take a look at as close to a poor all-white area as I can find and see what that group's violent crime behavior is. So no, I don't want proportional. I thought I made that clear. Your second sentence has it right. Let's put the questions another way: Do poor whites commit violent crime at the same rate as poor black and hispanic minorities? If the answer is no and the poor white violent crime rate is lower than the minority violent crime rate, then can we eliminate poverty as a motivator or excuse for violent crime?

So to you my comparing Blacks to Hispanics in a major city where they are both in poor areas and both have roughly the same population has no merit --- only if I compare it to white people?

 

In NYC the violent crime comparison from Hispanics to Blacks is over 3-1 in favor of blacks committing violent crimes -- yet There are actually more hispanics in NYC than blacks. Yet that seems to make no sense to you and be a totally unvalid valid comparison becasue I didn't compare to whites?

[5-Points 3,692]

Only if they hear you.

[wiffleball 4,793]

Which is being disproved -- when Hispanics are more numerous , start out just as poor , and yet commit maybe 1/3 of the crime that blacks do.

 

Yeah maybe Hispanic better their situations by more actively seeking employment and taking better care of their hoods.

[The Moz 71]

Only if they hear you.

I had 2 black roomates in college 1 year and they would always ask me is I wanted to "bust some spades"

[wiffleball 4,793]

The unfortunate aspect to all this - other than a shiitload of dead innocents each year is:

 

If we COULD just call "a spade a spade" and deal with this as a socio-ETHNIC-economic problem, then we'd be far better able to target the root causes and retard the growth of such violence.

 

As it stands now, if one were to even ATTEMPT to do that, they'd be savaged. (so to speak)

 

Yes, the numbers don't lie. But then again, TRY to get one major media outlet to even think of talking about the numbers of unwed mothers in black culture compared to any other cultural group. They won't touch it - because the numbers are just overwhelmingly damning.

 

Speaking in general (Obviously): The positive news is Black women seem to have made some seriously fundamental leaps in cultural norms and education. The sad reality is, many black men have not and are committing their own genocide. Between 1) AIDS 2) Violent Crime and 3) Incarceration, they are quite literally a dying breed.

 

Yes, obviously, there is more than one factor involved, but in the end, as has been stated - more than just black folks are poor.

 

Imagine the cultural disdain the Asian culture has for many of the same behaviors 'urban' cultures lionize. That's just something that should be recognized and addressed. Some responsible black leaders (Cosby, et al) have tried to do so, but routinely get dismissed as "sell outs" and "uncle Tom's".

[parrot 789]

When the movie "The Warriors" came out, me and my friends decided we needed to start a gang in our suburbanite neighborhood. We were The Spades. All four of us white boys carried an ace of spade card in our velcro wallets to show how bad ass we were. We used to stand on the side of the road and spade cars. Which was basically waiting for the cars to come down the street and we'd scream and yell at the driver as they drove by. We owned those quiet streets. Untill one day when our leaders uncle found out about the gang. He wasn't so much pissed off that some ten year olds were terrorizing cars. He was pissed that we named our gand after black folks. Uncle Racist: Do ya'll little bastards even know what a spade is? It's a n***er you dumbass's.

 

The Spades dibanded that very afternoon. We al threw away our spade cards, stopped spading cars, and never spoke of it again. As a former Spade, please don't call me a Spade.

 

[wiffleball 4,793]

I've got this little hand-held shovel thingy that I just used this weekend to take out some weeds.

 

Is it okay if I call it a spade?

 

Because "Handheld Shovel American" is really a mouthful.

[parrot 789]

I've got this little hand-held shovel thingy that I just used this weekend to take out some weeds.

 

Is it okay if I call it a spade?

 

Because "Handheld Shovel American" is really a mouthful.

 

Around here we call that a "Mexican backhoe".

 

Oh wait.....

[wiffleball 4,793]

 

Around here we call that a "Mexican backhoe".

 

Oh wait.....

 

[penultimatestraw 473]

Take a Major City - for this example take the biggest NYC.

 

95% of all violent crime is committed by blacks or hispanics (80% by blacks) in NYC - maybe the % is even higher as I have read 98% of gun assaults - I went 95% to make for wiggle room. Look at the schools and the percentages almost mirror that of violent crimes when looking at violent behavior in schools.

 

Go Nationally and you find 75% of violent crime is blacks 15-20% Hispanics and the rest split between White's, Asians, Hindu's , Arabs , etc.

 

So based on this is "RACIST" to say that Black people are inherently violent. That they are just violent people by nature with high levels of hostile aggression. There are more Hispanics than Blacks or at least equal yet Blacks far and away commit way more crime - yet both are poor by nature.

 

Can it be racist to call Blacks (Africans) a Violent people by nature?

Yes it's a bigoted viewpoint, because you are making negative assumptions about an entire race of people.

[naomi 360]

More specific than poor, you'll probably find that crime is higher in populations the more sustained by the government they are.

 

It's a long

...guy gets into how anytime you have government programs that address issues 'by force', you always wind up getting the opposite in return. War on drugs...a more insidious drug problem. War on poverty...trapping people in poverty. I haven't checked it out myself but he says we were actually slowly improving on the poverty note- slowly but surely, until policies from the war on poverty set in.

[wiffleball 4,793]

Yes it's a bigoted viewpoint, because you are making negative assumptions about an entire race of people.

 

But PS, therein lies the flaw. - And why we've made so little progress.

 

You can't talk about any ethnic and/or cultural group without making some kind of generalizations. Hell, to take it further, you can't do so about virtually any population - a population of fruit, baseball pitchers, animal crackers, - you name it.

 

...Because invariably somebody will say "They're NOT ALL LIKE THAT!!!"

 

Well of course not, but if 99% of Redheads carried HPV virus, would it be 'racist' to recommend all progeny of redheads recieve the HPV vaccine?

[Casual Observer 597]

So to you my comparing Blacks to Hispanics in a major city where they are both in poor areas and both have roughly the same population has no merit --- only if I compare it to white people?

 

In NYC the violent crime comparison from Hispanics to Blacks is over 3-1 in favor of blacks committing violent crimes -- yet There are actually more hispanics in NYC than blacks. Yet that seems to make no sense to you and be a totally unvalid valid comparison becasue I didn't compare to whites?

I don't know if exaggeration and hyperbole are built in to this joint when responding to others, but I did not say comparison of blacks to hispanics had no merit. Moreover, you did not make that initial comparison. Your initial post was a recognition of high minority violent crime rates in NYC. Then, as usually happens, an apologist chimed in and suggested that poverty was the cause behind the high minority crime rate. I suggested you take a look at an area of mostly poor white people and see what the violent crime rates are for them. Do you not think that such a comparison would have any value to the question at hand?

 

By the way, this was not a trick question or excerise to prove you wrong.

[The Moz 71]

I don't know if exaggeration and hyperbole are built in to this joint when responding to others, but I did not say comparison of blacks to hispanics had no merit. Moreover, you did not make that initial comparison. Your initial post was a recognition of high minority violent crime rates in NYC. Then, as usually happens, an apologist chimed in and suggested that poverty was the cause behind the high minority crime rate. I suggested you take a look at an area of mostly poor white people and see what the violent crime rates are for them. Do you not think that such a comparison would have any value to the question at hand?

 

By the way, this was not a trick question or excerise to prove you wrong.

Okay I will Compare say Harlan KY with Gary Indiana. Seriously do I really need to give stat comparisons there? What about (pick a poor ass county in KY,WV, or TN) and compare it to East ST. Louis any need for stats there sparky?

 

Hell pick the worst all white area in the country and copare it to either Gary or E. STL and tell me if you even need stats?

 

Hence why the comparison you are saying you want has no merit.

 

The only way their is merit is in a comparison where you compare 2 ethnic group living in the same environment , around the same population , and basically the same poverty level. HENCE my logical comparison of Blacks and Hispanics in NYC -- the one place that meets all this criteria to make a valid comparison.