Do you believe in an afterlife?

[penultimatestraw 473]

IMO our consciousness and our bodies are separate things that merge at birth (or at conception if your republican) and take time (a few years) to begin to come together. When the Body dies the Consciousness leaves. Whether that consciousness represents a soul and you go to a heaven or keeps getting more bodies like reincarnation. We are the only beings on the planet that are self aware I just think that has to mean something and be for a reason

How do you know we are the only self aware ones? Even if we are, why would that mandate a reason for our existence?

[Frank M 181]

IMO our consciousness and our bodies are separate things that merge at birth (or at conception if your republican) and take time (a few years) to begin to come together. When the Body dies the Consciousness leaves. Whether that consciousness represents a soul and you go to a heaven or keeps getting more bodies like reincarnation. We are the only one of many beings on the planet that are self aware I just think that has want that to mean something and be for a reason

 

Fixed.

 

We are not the only beings on the planet that are self aware. Studies have shown that chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, dolphins, elephants, humans and possibly pigeons all demonstrate self-awareness. Gorillas that have been taught sign language can communicate incredible self-awareness and a wide range of emotions thought to be exclusively human.

[NewbieJr 540]

 

Fixed.

 

We are not the only beings on the planet that are self aware. Studies have shown that chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, dolphins, elephants, humans and possibly pigeons all demonstrate self-awareness. Gorillas that have been taught sign language can communicate incredible self-awareness and a wide range of emotions thought to be exclusively human.

My dog seems to know when he's been licking his balls too long. He has a very embarrassed look on his face.

[The Moz 69]

 

Fixed.

 

We are not the only beings on the planet that are self aware. Studies have shown that chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, dolphins, elephants, humans and possibly pigeons all demonstrate self-awareness. Gorillas that have been taught sign language can communicate incredible self-awareness and a wide range of emotions thought to be exclusively human.

Yes other beings on earth have some aspects of being self aware but nowhere near to the level that we are. I know you want to believe that there is nothing and thats fine - but to me it's harder to think that there is NOTHING than that there is. Are saying all those thousands of near death experiences that on some level mimic each other are all fake - maybe they are and their bodies didn't really die so to speak and they saw what they wanted to see. I just think it's just as much of a leap to say there isn't than there is

[TD Ryan2 314]

But why do you need to understand what happens after you die?

 

The topic and concept of an afterlife is about understanding what happens after you die. I think we all "need" or at least try to get our haids around that - that's what this entire topic is about.

 

I just think it's just as much of a leap to say there isn't than there is

That's kinda' my point Moz - understanding and accepting "nothing" is every bit as difficult as understanding and accepting pearly gates.

 

I suspect that there is "something" but understanding/explaining is beyond our physical senses and capabilities.

MDC mentioned math/Einstein/relativity earlier and maybe it's along those lines... our perception of time, space, and being are so limited.that we simply can not understand what happens.

[Frank M 181]

Yes other beings on earth have some aspects of being self aware but nowhere near to the level that we are. I know you want to believe that there is nothing and thats fine - but to me it's harder to think that there is NOTHING than that there is. Are saying all those thousands of near death experiences that on some level mimic each other are all fake - maybe they are and their bodies didn't really die so to speak and they saw what they wanted to see. I just think it's just as much of a leap to say there isn't than there is

 

Most near death experiences can be easily explained by the firing neurons of a dying brain.The fact that many of them follow the same general outline speaks more to them being natural than supernatural, as in since all of our brains are essentially the same, they are all going to follow the same pattern when they are shutting down.

 

The reason you think it's a leap to not believe in an afterlife is that you believe what you've been told and you don't use logic because it goes against those beliefs.

[Frank M 181]

 

 

The topic and concept of an afterlife is about understanding what happens after you die. I think we all "need" or at least try to get our haids around that - that's what this entire topic is about.

 

That's kinda' my point Moz - understanding and accepting "nothing" is every bit as difficult as understanding and accepting pearly gates.

 

I suspect that there is "something" but understanding/explaining is beyond our physical senses and capabilities.

MDC mentioned math/Einstein/relativity earlier and maybe it's along those lines... our perception of time, space, and being are so limited.that we simply can not understand what happens.

 

The problem isn't the understanding/explaining, it's the acceptance. How is accepting nothing as difficult as accepting the concept of heaven? Just because it doesn't seem fair?

[TD Ryan2 314]

The problem isn't the understanding/explaining, it's the acceptance. How is accepting nothing as difficult as accepting the concept of heaven? Just because it doesn't seem fair?

because I don't know what "nothing" is... even if you say it's "darkness", that still means there's some perception or "something"... in fact, if you say it's "like" anything, then it is not nothing.

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

all of our brains are essentially the same

 

and here I thought you'd been posting long enough to know this isn't true.

[The Moz 69]

The problem isn't the understanding/explaining, it's the acceptance. How is accepting nothing as difficult as accepting the concept of heaven? Just because it doesn't seem fair?

In a way the concept of there just being nothing is a relief - but to be honest I doubt we get off that easy.

 

Seriously - if looking at things logically in accordance with our sense of logic than what your saying is the most logical. But knowing that we know almost nothing in regards to the universe means wether we think somethig is logical or not really don't know anything

[Frank M 181]

 

 

and here I thought you'd been posting long enough to know this isn't true.

 

 

 

Physical structure, anyways.

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

 

Physical structure, anyways.

whatever you say GiantsFan.

[Frank M 181]

In a way the concept of there just being nothing is a relief - but to be honest I doubt we get off that easy.

 

Seriously - if looking at things logically in accordance with our sense of logic than what your saying is the most logical. But knowing that we know almost nothing in regards to the universe means wether we think somethig is logical or not really don't know anything

 

No need to start ascribing supernatural ideas to things we don't know at this point in human history. Our ancestors did that with illness, lightning, tons of things easily explained now.

 

I have no issue with what anyone believes, but going the supernatural rout because we don't have all the information? Too easy.

[The Next Generation 10]

because I don't know what "nothing" is... even if you say it's "darkness", that still means there's some perception or "something"... in fact, if you say it's "like" anything, then it is not nothing.

Imagine what life was like before you were born. That's exactly what it will be like after you die. That wasn't so hard now, was it?

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

I have no issue with what anyone believes, but going the supernatural rout because we don't have all the information? Too easy.

agreed.

But also the inverse applies:

going the "nothing" rout because we don't have all the information? Too easy.

[Bill E. 666]

I don't. I think we cease to be.

 

I also am certain that I don't know everything, and I've never been afraid to hedge my bets. So when somebody offers to pray for me or someone I care about, I thank them and tell them I appreciate it.

 

My sister died last week almost 2 years to the day after being diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She was a kind, giving person who shared my beliefs (or lack of same). Last thing I said to her was "Hey, just in case we're both wrong and there IS something else, see what you can do about greasing the skids for me."

Sorry for your loss. My beliefs are almost the same as yours. It does not make sense that there is more but a lot of smarter people than me believe so I do not ever put anyone down for theirs.

 

My cousin that I was close to died two days ago at 57. She was a pretty strong believer. I hope she was right because she was one of the good ones.

[Frank M 181]

agreed.

But also the inverse applies:

going the "nothing" rout because we don't have all the information? Too easy.

 

I have enough information to know that my body will decompose and my molecules will become something else other than me. That's not "nothing", that's what happens.

[LOD01 192]

Yes and I plan on floating thru the universe and checking out what the rest had to offer. No doubt, I'll find that Earth is near the bottom of the food chain. I expect my favorite tunes to be playing in my head all the while.

 

All the god stuff is just speculation. No one has the faintest clue so I'll see that when the time comes. The people sitting in a church on Sunday are just the wimps that think a bribe is going to get them thru the pearly gates that may not even exist.

[OldMaid 1,838]

I pretty much agree with everything FrankM has said, in this thread.

 

Our consciousness stems from having a living brain. When that brain ceases to function, so does our self awareness. How can you be aware of anything, when the main component of translating this awareness is gone?

 

I guess it's possible on a molecular level that we retain some memory of who we are. I know I've read stories about organ transplant recipients, that have taken on traits of the former owner. But I find it hard to believe that after we're dead, we'd have a way to process those memories ourselves.

 

And finally... The so called "white light" that so many report seeing, during near death experiences, has already been explained by Dr.'s as being exactly what FrankM described. I've had my own near death expirence... and I don't remember anything. No lights, no awareness, nothing... Like being asleep, but without dreams. No sense of time, either.

 

Meh... we're all gong to get to find out, either way.

[JT 137]

Sorry for your loss. My beliefs are almost the same as yours. It does not make sense that there is more but a lot of smarter people than me believe so I do not ever put anyone down for theirs.

 

My cousin that I was close to died two days ago at 57. She was a pretty strong believer. I hope she was right because she was one of the good ones.

 

Sincere condolences for your loss, Bill.

[drobeski 3,061]

I pretty much agree with everything FrankM has said, in this thread.

 

Our consciousness stems from having a living brain. When that brain ceases to function, so does our self awareness. How can you be aware of anything, when the main component of translating this awareness is gone?

 

I guess it's possible on a molecular level that we retain some memory of who we are. I know I've read stories about organ transplant recipients, that have taken on traits of the former owner. But I find it hard to believe that after we're dead, we'd have a way to process those memories ourselves.

 

And finally... The so called "white light" that so many report seeing, during near death experiences, has already been explained by Dr.'s as being exactly what FrankM described. I've had my own near death expirence... and I don't remember anything. No lights, no awareness, nothing... Like being asleep, but without dreams. No sense of time, either.

 

Meh... we're all gong to get to find out, either way.

so those drs you agree with but definitely not the ones phsyc brought to light in that other thread, thats how it works right ? Believe what suits your mindset.

[IGotWorms 3,343]

so those drs you agree with but definitely not the ones phsyc brought to light in that other thread, thats how it works right ? Believe what suits your mindset.

[OldMaid 1,838]

so those drs you agree with but definitely not the ones phsyc brought to light in that other thread, thats how it works right ? Believe what suits your mindset.

Drobs, with all respect... you're out of your league here. Schizophrenia is a real disorder... I have lived with the proof.

 

Please just leave it alone...

[Ken8080 6]

Drobs, with all respect... you're out of your league here. Schizophrenia is a real disorder... I have lived with the proof.

 

Please just leave it alone...

 

It's only obvious.

[OldMaid 1,838]

It's only obvious.

Why don't you share a little about yourself, Ken? I'm sure plenty of people would be interested in hearing, what it's like living with downs.

 

[naomi 343]

I think I can wrap my mind around consciousness ceasing. It's obviously not going to be sad (personally) that everything is past...being able to love those who you love, because you're not there to miss anything. Before I became a Christian it didn't bother me. That may have been because I didn't really believe it deep down.

 

When I think about it now, I think that it would personally make the present seem hollow. I try to figure out why that is as someone who once didn't mind the prospect, and the only thing that makes sense to me is a thought from the bible where it says that man was made to be in communion with God. It claims that's a fundamental aspect of our nature. Not that man was made to go through certain religious motions, or he has some zen-standing with his creator, but that he was created for relationships, and whether he likes it or not, has one with God, and that one is actually core to who he is more than any other.

 

We put that off willfully...(even though the opposite is how the materialist sees things) and by nature it's just temporary. There is a him "with whom we have to do." (sig)

[smashmouths@blf 33]

Yes. The whole point of religion and Christianity is faith. Even if I wasn't sure I think I would error on the side of an afterlife. What do u have to lose?

[IGotWorms 3,343]

I think I can wrap my mind around consciousness ceasing. It's obviously not going to be sad (personally) that everything is past...being able to love those who you love, because you're not there to miss anything. Before I became a Christian it didn't bother me. That may have been because I didn't really believe it deep down.

 

When I think about it now, I think that it would personally make the present seem hollow. I try to figure out why that is as someone who once didn't mind the prospect, and the only thing that makes sense to me is a thought from the bible where it says that man was made to be in communion with God. It claims that's a fundamental aspect of our nature. Not that man was made to go through certain religious motions, or he has some zen-standing with his creator, but that he was created for relationships, and whether he likes it or not, has one with God, and that one is actually core to who he is more than any other.

 

We put that off willfully...(even though the opposite is how the materialist sees things) and by nature it's just temporary. There is a him "with whom we have to do." (sig)

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

 

The topic and concept of an afterlife is about understanding what happens after you die. I think we all "need" or at least try to get our haids around that - that's what this entire topic is about.

 

That's kinda' my point Moz - understanding and accepting "nothing" is every bit as difficult as understanding and accepting pearly gates.

 

I suspect that there is "something" but understanding/explaining is beyond our physical senses and capabilities.

MDC mentioned math/Einstein/relativity earlier and maybe it's along those lines... our perception of time, space, and being are so limited.that we simply can not understand what happens.

 

I've thought about it, but not much.

 

To me, it seems pretty obvious that not much happens after we die, but the pearly gates remain elusive.

[donkeyjotes 54]

Absolutely. The Earth is the center of the universe after all.

[mmmmm...beer 692]

Yep... absolutely.

[naomi 343]

 

If I grew up with Muslim parents and knew a lot about the tenants of Islam, would it mean that I believe in Allah and have reverence for him (and Muhammad)?

[cmh6476 760]

some of you are lost. you should come try my church

[penultimatestraw 473]

some of you are lost. you should come try my church

I've been to church, thanks. When's the last time you went to a mosque, temple or monastery?

[cmh6476 760]

don't recall. Not knocking anyone else, just know I'm comfortable where I'm at.

[penultimatestraw 473]

don't recall. Not knocking anyone else, just know I'm comfortable where I'm at.

Calling people "lost" isn't a compliment. But I'm comfortable as well.

[Frank M 181]

some of you are lost. you should come try my church

 

And some of you are gullible. You should try free thinking.

[TD Ryan2 314]

I've been to church, thanks. When's the last time you went to a mosque, temple or monastery?

I honestly don't think there's much difference in any of them.... I could read the Quran, the Torah, or the Bible and walk away with the same messages about worshiping one God, enduring sacrifice and hardship, and being good to neighbors.

People make religion what they want it to be. I f you want to use it to justify violence, you will. If you want to use it as a moral compass, you will.

The problems with organized religion are the politics and money - religious institutes can/have become powerful/wealthy/influential institutes... and that's a triumvirate for corruption. I truly believe that all the scandal and struggles the Catholic Church has endured has forced them to become a better church - and by better, I mean their power/wealth/influence has been shaken and it's forced them to be more humble and approachable.

[smashmouths@blf 33]

 

And some of you are gullible. You should try free thinking.

You sound like a pothead hippie.

[drobeski 3,061]

You sound like a pothead hippie.

smells like one too