Ball sux

[handbanana 47]

No burst, very little ability to break tackles, not great vision. Oops...

[H-man 12]

Completely agree. His value is completely due to being with Peyton on that offense. Not a sustaining runner with consistent 4 yard gains, looks lost in a fog in the open field, and has very little wiggle.

[stonewall 647]

LOL

 

Just scored on a great run, and has run hard all night against a good run D

 

Would like to see him catch more passes

[handbanana 47]

Completely agree. His value is completely due to being with Peyton on that offense. Not a sustaining runner with consistent 4 yard gains, looks lost in a fog in the open field, and has very little wiggle.

And that TD doesn't make up for it, that was just terrible defense.

 

Addai wasn't all that good either, let's hope Ball can be a poor-Man's Addai...

[H-man 12]

Maybe that TD will teach him to have some patience behind is O-line to wait for a hole to develop. There will be lots of hard work put in by Demaryious and Julius to get down to the one with Ball getting to loaf his way into the endzone from one yard out.

[murf74 461]

LOL

 

Just scored on a great run, and has run hard all night against a good run D

 

Would like to see him catch more passes

There wasn't much great about that TD run. He seems to run like Trich but he will be much better cause of oline and manning.

[American Chewy 98]

value is limited because he doesn't go out for passes. richer man's Alfred Morris.

[H-man 12]

He tries to go out for passes but his timing is off and his routes are not well shaped b/c his vision sux.

[SUXBNME 1,337]

I'd prefer that you didn't.

[BobSanders_33 127]

I thought that Ball looked fine. To me he was running hard and will break a few runs this year because of the empty box. If you look back at the numbers Moreno put up last year and he had several games just like this on his way to being the number 5 overall RB. There are very few RBs in the NFL right now I'd rather have than Ball.

[shorepatrol 1,737]

Ya, he does. T Richard clone. Hillman will end up with better #s

[murf74 461]

I thought that Ball looked fine. To me he was running hard and will break a few runs this year because of the empty box. If you look back at the numbers Moreno put up last year and he had several games just like this on his way to being the number 5 overall RB. There are very few RBs in the NFL right now I'd rather have than Ball.

He is a manning rb so of course. Doesn't mean he is a great rb. Looked like crap tonight

[Flgatorguy87 160]

14 a week sounds good to me. Bring on da sux

[Herbivore 905]

14 a week sounds good to me. Bring on da sux

 

83 all purpose with 2 rcpts and a TD = 16.3. After missing all of preseason is a good start.

[Challenger 72]

He is the feature back period, CJ Anderson came in couple runs for breather, that's it. There are few feature back in this league, let alone playing for Peyton Manning. I don't know what you are smoking.

[American Chewy 98]

Most here are maybe comparing him to Moreno last season and not to the rest of the league. Least that's what I'm doing. don't think he will be top 5 but should be a solid rb1 in all formats for sure.

[handbanana 47]

He is the feature back period, CJ Anderson came in couple runs for breather, that's it. There are few feature back in this league, let alone playing for Peyton Manning. I don't know what you are smoking.

I'm not saying he won't be useful in fantasy. I'm saying he's not a very good RB. He's in a great situation to out up some numbers, but it will be in spite of himself. That's all.

[NEWPOSTERGUY! 267]

There are few feature back in this league, let alone playing for Peyton Manning. I don't know what you are smoking.

 

see Disco Joey Addai in '06/'07 ... marginal talent who was a legit rb1 under Peyton.

 

Ball will do just fine.

[skinsrule05 30]

I'm not saying he won't be useful in fantasy. I'm saying he's not a very good RB. He's in a great situation to out up some numbers, but it will be in spite of himself. That's all.

I'm fine with that. After seeing tonight it is obvious he will be a RB1 mainly because of opportunity. I'm lucky because my league doesn't have bonus points for showing you are "good".

[kolp 9]

Glad I took Murray instead. That was some uninspired running last night from Ball. I think if Moreno was still the lead back in Denver last night you would have seen a better stat line. Yes, I just said Moreno is a better rb that Ball.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

Did anyone see the move Moreno put on Wilfork for his TD? Wow.

[kolp 9]

Did anyone see the move Moreno put on Wilfork for his TD? Wow.

Yep, was sick.

 

Ppl will try to defend players sometimes by saying "He ran hard, there was just no room to run". Talented rbs will make room. While I do think Lacy/Ball will have much better weeks, I wouldn't exactly call them 'talented' when there are easily 15-20 better in the league. Opportunity trumps all in fantasy though.

[HOKIEZ 34]

I own lacy and ball. Not worried one bit. Ball had no chance on several runs. I would have liked to see some more burst out of him but its only week 1 for christ sake. He had 25 touches, thats what i care about

[Challenger 72]

Everything is situational, look at Jamal Charles, opportunity > talent for him. Or even AP, he got lower points than Ball this week. Are you throwing the towels for Jamal and AP too? Of course not!

[p00h 85]

everyone touting him as the feature back on a peyton manning team needs to also acknowledge the fact that Peyton will throw for plenty of TDs inside the 10, even inside the 5. JT looked like the net coming of JG/Gronk yesterday, completely unguardable. So the same logic that dictates he'll get a lot of opportunities, aka playing in a high powered manning offence, also dictates that he will get vultured for a lot of TDs, because of manning. I think he ends up a low end RB1, which isn't terrible for where he was going, but a lot of players around him in that late 1st round early 2nd will end up being far better value...

 

Only other thing to say about him is that he was an absolute endzone hog in college. Sniffed it out and got it any chance he got, so IF he gets the touches inside the 5, he will usually convert. Pretty significant if, however, in terms of getting those touches, when Peyton can basically pass it in at will with the weapons he has...

[Herbivore 905]

everyone touting him as the feature back on a peyton manning team needs to also acknowledge the fact that Peyton will throw for plenty of TDs inside the 10, even inside the 5. JT looked like the net coming of JG/Gronk yesterday, completely unguardable. So the same logic that dictates he'll get a lot of opportunities, aka playing in a high powered manning offence, also dictates that he will get vultured for a lot of TDs, because of manning. I think he ends up a low end RB1, which isn't terrible for where he was going, but a lot of players around him in that late 1st round early 2nd will end up being far better value...

 

Only other thing to say about him is that he was an absolute endzone hog in college. Sniffed it out and got it any chance he got, so IF he gets the touches inside the 5, he will usually convert. Pretty significant if, however, in terms of getting those touches, when Peyton can basically pass it in at will with the weapons he has...

 

Peyton is great, but I see this as a problem with his game that ultimately costs his teams championships. Teams need to be able to run the ball in on 1st and 3. Instead Peyton throws 3 times to Demaryious. Up 17-0, they run once from the 4(albeit goes for -1), and then back to the pass. It worked last night. It will work again. But I think it sets the O-line and Rb's, and therefore the team, up to come up short. Maybe its the best option at that time, but it also lessen's the ability to run later in the year.

[ppierce 2]

Every run seemed like it was for a lot longer then Al Michaels would say "gain of 3" or "gain of 4". He is definitly plodding. Not sure where the Ball is better than Moreno came from.

[BobSanders_33 127]

everyone touting him as the feature back on a peyton manning team needs to also acknowledge the fact that Peyton will throw for plenty of TDs inside the 10, even inside the 5. JT looked like the net coming of JG/Gronk yesterday, completely unguardable. So the same logic that dictates he'll get a lot of opportunities, aka playing in a high powered manning offence, also dictates that he will get vultured for a lot of TDs, because of manning. I think he ends up a low end RB1, which isn't terrible for where he was going, but a lot of players around him in that late 1st round early 2nd will end up being far better value...

 

Only other thing to say about him is that he was an absolute endzone hog in college. Sniffed it out and got it any chance he got, so IF he gets the touches inside the 5, he will usually convert. Pretty significant if, however, in terms of getting those touches, when Peyton can basically pass it in at will with the weapons he has...

 

I wish that FFtoday still posted the distance of scores (if they do I can't find it). Your point is easily proven wrong. This offense scores a lot of rushing touchdowns within the 5 yard line. Manning will throw several TDs from a short distance so if you are saying that Ball owners should be mad that he could end up with 13 instead of 20 I guess you have a point? I will settle for the TDs he will get.

 

Also, how could "a lot of players around him in that late 1st round early 2nd round end up being a FAR better value" and "I think he ends up a low end RB1" work together?

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

No burst, but that's what Manning wants in this offense.

A 4 yard plodder.

[p00h 85]

 

I wish that FFtoday still posted the distance of scores (if they do I can't find it). Your point is easily proven wrong. This offense scores a lot of rushing touchdowns within the 5 yard line. Manning will throw several TDs from a short distance so if you are saying that Ball owners should be mad that he could end up with 13 instead of 20 I guess you have a point? I will settle for the TDs he will get.

 

Also, how could "a lot of players around him in that late 1st round early 2nd round end up being a FAR better value" and "I think he ends up a low end RB1" work together?

 

relax bobby, I'm not saying anyone should be mad, or not mad, or 13 vs. 20 or whatever. Just having a dialog, I'll provide some context...

 

Preseason showed a lot of hype for Monte ball, and a good chunk of the hype was based on the fact that he plays for the best offense in the league. Very valid point. My take on the situation from the get go has been that until he actually proves something in this league, I'll temper my expectations. If I had a dollar for every player that came into the NFL touted from college, high draft pick, blahblah, that failed and was out of the league in a couple of years, I'd be a millionaire. Ratio of those dudes to those that actually perform based on their hype is pretty skewed...

 

So fast forward to week 1, and we get a taste of things. Small sample size I know, but we got to see that high powered offense play in all it's glory, throwing up a 31 piece...so let's disect the game from a team perspective and then from a ball perspective...

 

25 touches, that's fantastic. Get that kind of burn in a high powered offense and you will get yours, or should anyway...

67 rushing yards for a 2.9 average. Pretty terrible. 67 yards a game barely cracks you 1K for the year

2 catches for 16 yards, fairly pedestrian, however with Ds focusing on the other weapons there is good potential there...

1 TD, solid. On pace for 16 for the year...

 

Now lets look at the drives a bit carefully, acknowledging that it's a small sample size of 1 game...

 

Up 3-0, broncos get ball on their own 46. Solid field position...couple of ball runs on the drive that amount to very little, then boom a deep pass to JT to set up in the RZ...eventually they get down to the 3 yardline where manning scores on pass to JT...

 

 

Up 17-0, they get ball on their own 29...ball has a couple of runs, catches 1 pass, anderson comes in for couple of runs, then boom, 40 yard pass to Sanders. 1st and goal at the 4...Give it to ball for loss of a yard, and Peyton throws it in. On that 2nd and goal, if anyone in the entire world watching the game believed they would run again, you'd be accused of smoking crack. Will they run on 2nd and goal in that situation ever?!? Pretty sure they will, based on what the D is giving them, but I guarantee you 95 out of a 100 times Peyton will identify something in the D which will give him great confidence that he can pass it in. This is fact...

 

Up 24-10 in the 4th, denver gets ball at the indy 48, great field position...ball gets a couple of runs, couple of passes, then boom a 26 yarder to DT, setting them up with 1st and goal at 3...ball runs it in on 1st and goal. If he didn't run it in there, outside if it being 2nd and goal from the 2 inch line, peyton would be passing for that TD, so opportunity for the most part is going to be only on 1st and goal. That is an opinion, but an opinion steeped in a long ranging peyton manning history nonetheless...

 

So my takeaways from the game: Yes the fact that they have a high powered offense means ball will have lots of opportuiniies, and getting 25 touches is amazing...however the yardage from those touches is disparaging. He won't score a TD every week, and 80 total yards and 2 catches for PPR folks is not exactly a 1st round pick production...

 

ANd the 2nd part of the analysis is that 1) peyton is more apt to throw a 40 yard TD than damn near any other qb, with brees up there as well. So good deal of opportunities lost there. They're not exactly a slow and steady, move the chains down the field type of offense...and lastly, peyton will vulture goalline TDs...

 

As per my low end RB1, others will be better value...I don't want a low end RB1 with the 11th overall pick, especially when a qb, 2 wrs and a TE have been aprt of the first 10 picks...I'd rather have AJ green or the likes there than ball, hence my comment. Low end RB1 means he can be the 12th highest scoring RB and still be RB1.

 

SO again, I'm just having a discussion here. Nothing is written in stone. If he comes back next game and goes off for 190 and 2 tds, the whole conversation will shift. He might end of the top RB in the league this year, I don't think it's out of the question...however until he shows that, the manlove for him from the fanboys is not really logical. And nothing he showed me in game 1, despite the end statline being decent, has changed my take on it...Doesn't mean I think he sucks of will not produce. Just means I need to see it before I jump on the wagon...

[p00h 85]

 

Peyton is great, but I see this as a problem with his game that ultimately costs his teams championships. Teams need to be able to run the ball in on 1st and 3. Instead Peyton throws 3 times to Demaryious. Up 17-0, they run once from the 4(albeit goes for -1), and then back to the pass. It worked last night. It will work again. But I think it sets the O-line and Rb's, and therefore the team, up to come up short. Maybe its the best option at that time, but it also lessen's the ability to run later in the year.

 

 

I don't think peyton's desire to throw in side the 5 for tds has been what has cost his teams championships specifically. When you have arguably the greatest qb of all time, and a D that is stuffed into the box to stop the run, it's easy to go pass. The way he can break down a D, audible out, etc makes it extremely easy for him to exploit a defense that is fairly one dimensional down at the goalline in their desire to stop the run. Regardless, whether that mindset causes his teams to win or lose championships has no bearing on FF. All we need to know is that if a rb can't stuff it in on 1 try down there, peyton is likely to go pass. ANd there is very little guarantee they don't pass on 1st and goal from the 3 to begin with, completely eliminating the opportunity for the rb, unless he ends up on the other end of that pass...

[PackYourNut 47]

Or maybe his line sucked!

 

9: Montee Ball’s missed tackles forced, which led all running backs
Ball was hardly impressive in terms of his bulk stats against Indy; he rushed 23 times for 67 yards—good for 2.9 YPC. The Broncos really had trouble winning at the point-of-attack, though, and the fact that Ball forced nine missed tackles on his carries suggests that he made the most of what was blocked for him.

Actually, by knowing Ball’s yards after contact, we can calculate how many yards he gained before contact on each play. It turns out that he ran for just 12 total yards before being hit by Colts defenders, which works out to only 0.52 yards per rush.

 

[angman 0]

Just playing devils advocate, but the points in this conversation about Ball:

 

-looking average

-lacking burst

-"volume runner"

- being able to get what he can after being hit in the backfield

-his offensive line being the problem as the vaunted Indy run defence got in the backfield all the time despite the fact they play with great QBs and WR options that theoretically should leave less men in the box

 

sound very familiar to comments made about the Indy RB on the other side of the ball in that game that gets torched on Twitter or on fantasy football message boards after every carry.

 

Believe me, I'm nowhere near burying Ball yet as this is only one game, but from the eye test to me last night, he looked average and CJ Anderson had more burst. We'll see what happens in the coming weeks, but it is something to monitor.

[PackYourNut 47]

He looked good on his first carry... Which was about the only one where he didn't get hit at the line of scrimmage.

[Herbivore 905]

 

relax bobby, I'm not saying anyone should be mad, or not mad, or 13 vs. 20 or whatever. Just having a dialog, I'll provide some context...

 

Preseason showed a lot of hype for Monte ball, and a good chunk of the hype was based on the fact that he plays for the best offense in the league. Very valid point. My take on the situation from the get go has been that until he actually proves something in this league, I'll temper my expectations. If I had a dollar for every player that came into the NFL touted from college, high draft pick, blahblah, that failed and was out of the league in a couple of years, I'd be a millionaire. Ratio of those dudes to those that actually perform based on their hype is pretty skewed...

 

So fast forward to week 1, and we get a taste of things. Small sample size I know, but we got to see that high powered offense play in all it's glory, throwing up a 31 piece...so let's disect the game from a team perspective and then from a ball perspective...

 

25 touches, that's fantastic. Get that kind of burn in a high powered offense and you will get yours, or should anyway...

67 rushing yards for a 2.9 average. Pretty terrible. 67 yards a game barely cracks you 1K for the year

2 catches for 16 yards, fairly pedestrian, however with Ds focusing on the other weapons there is good potential there...

1 TD, solid. On pace for 16 for the year...

 

Now lets look at the drives a bit carefully, acknowledging that it's a small sample size of 1 game...

 

Up 3-0, broncos get ball on their own 46. Solid field position...couple of ball runs on the drive that amount to very little, then boom a deep pass to JT to set up in the RZ...eventually they get down to the 3 yardline where manning scores on pass to JT...

 

 

Up 17-0, they get ball on their own 29...ball has a couple of runs, catches 1 pass, anderson comes in for couple of runs, then boom, 40 yard pass to Sanders. 1st and goal at the 4...Give it to ball for loss of a yard, and Peyton throws it in. On that 2nd and goal, if anyone in the entire world watching the game believed they would run again, you'd be accused of smoking crack. Will they run on 2nd and goal in that situation ever?!? Pretty sure they will, based on what the D is giving them, but I guarantee you 95 out of a 100 times Peyton will identify something in the D which will give him great confidence that he can pass it in. This is fact...

 

Up 24-10 in the 4th, denver gets ball at the indy 48, great field position...ball gets a couple of runs, couple of passes, then boom a 26 yarder to DT, setting them up with 1st and goal at 3...ball runs it in on 1st and goal. If he didn't run it in there, outside if it being 2nd and goal from the 2 inch line, peyton would be passing for that TD, so opportunity for the most part is going to be only on 1st and goal. That is an opinion, but an opinion steeped in a long ranging peyton manning history nonetheless...

 

So my takeaways from the game: Yes the fact that they have a high powered offense means ball will have lots of opportuiniies, and getting 25 touches is amazing...however the yardage from those touches is disparaging. He won't score a TD every week, and 80 total yards and 2 catches for PPR folks is not exactly a 1st round pick production...

 

ANd the 2nd part of the analysis is that 1) peyton is more apt to throw a 40 yard TD than damn near any other qb, with brees up there as well. So good deal of opportunities lost there. They're not exactly a slow and steady, move the chains down the field type of offense...and lastly, peyton will vulture goalline TDs...

 

As per my low end RB1, others will be better value...I don't want a low end RB1 with the 11th overall pick, especially when a qb, 2 wrs and a TE have been aprt of the first 10 picks...I'd rather have AJ green or the likes there than ball, hence my comment. Low end RB1 means he can be the 12th highest scoring RB and still be RB1.

 

SO again, I'm just having a discussion here. Nothing is written in stone. If he comes back next game and goes off for 190 and 2 tds, the whole conversation will shift. He might end of the top RB in the league this year, I don't think it's out of the question...however until he shows that, the manlove for him from the fanboys is not really logical. And nothing he showed me in game 1, despite the end statline being decent, has changed my take on it...Doesn't mean I think he sucks of will not produce. Just means I need to see it before I jump on the wagon...

 

Good call to go with the high ranked WR that had a good game