White People

[Artista 460]

do you know what you call an Israeli tanning parlor?

 

 

orange jews.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I see it all the time and I live in the mid west near a major city.

 

3 days ago a man was in my store and made a remark about some guy down the street holding a sale sign and waving at people.. He said, "If my boss asked me to do that, I'd tell him to find a n!gger to do that work."

 

Last month we visited my father in law in the Chicago burbs. I asked him how he was liking his new house and neighborhood. He repled, "There's too many n!ggers."

 

Racisim is alive and kicking in America.

Not really sure how anyone can deny it.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Not really sure how anyone can deny it.

It's what you do not what you say- MLK

[penultimatestraw 473]

It's what you do not what you say- MLK

So it''s who you hire, not who you call?

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

Actually, most don't think of them as Iranians. I think of Turkey when I hear kurdish. But I know they don't have a real state so we were kind enough to offer some of our border in the mountains to them..

 

Even though farsi looks like arabic, it's not the same at all. I can't understand/read any of it. Farsi takes more after european languages, just the writing looks arabic. French was a breeze to learn for me as the grammar is basically the same.

 

Also, arranged marriages are a thing of the past in modern Iran...

Turkey and Iraq...worked with two kurdish guys from Iraq.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

So it''s who you hire, not who you call?

Elaborate please.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Elaborate please.

Rather than just typing my opinion, I linked some research suggesting the subtle impact of racism in hiring. Nobody has really bothered to explain why candidates with "black-sounding" names get less callbacks for interviews, or are offered less pay. Read the post and give your insight. TIA.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Rather than just typing my opinion, I linked some research suggesting the subtle impact of racism in hiring. Nobody has really bothered to explain why candidates with "black-sounding" names get less callbacks for interviews, or are offered less pay. Read the post and give your insight. TIA.

Probably because people named Fanay-nay and LeQuan tend to be ghetto and the ghetto is t known for producing the most industrious of our citizens. Humans tend to play the odds. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it is.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Probably because people named Fanay-nay and LeQuan tend to be ghetto and the ghetto is t known for producing the most industrious of our citizens. Humans tend to play the odds. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it is.

So you realize how this cycle perpetuates itself then - both from the ghetto inhabitants and their prospective employers?

 

And if it is possible to make those assumptions just based on a name, why not on the color of one's skin? And why do applicants whose home addresses aren't located in the ghetto receive fewer callbacks? Should they change their names?

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

So you realize how this cycle perpetuates itself then - both from the ghetto inhabitants and their prospective employers?

 

And if it is possible to make those assumptions just based on a name, why not on the color of one's skin? And why do applicants whose home addresses aren't located in the ghetto fewer callbacks? Should they change their names?

If my parents didn't take my life seriously and saddled me with some made up ridiculous name, yes, I would change it if I wanted to be taken seriously. Remember, they are asking for the opportunity, so it is incumbent upon them to conform, not the other way around. Dressing and speaking the part isn't that hard. If you're not willing to do that then who needs you?

[penultimatestraw 473]

If my parents didn't take my life seriously and saddled me with some made up ridiculous name, yes, I would change it if I wanted to be taken seriously. Remember, they are asking for the opportunity, so it is incumbent upon them to conform, not the other way around. Dressing and speaking the part isn't that hard. If you're not willing to do that then who needs you?

Professional behavior is immaterial if you can't even get an interview.

 

And who determines which names are ridiculous? Or Magnificent?

[Artista 460]

Turkey and Iraq...worked with two kurdish guys from Iraq.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Name MB doesn't like = parents didn't take their kid's life seriously.

 

Interesting...not defending some names that have typically been "black"...but how about your thoughts on ...

Brayden, Braiden, Braden

Cayden, Caiden, Caden

And all odd spellings that even white parents find "unique"?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Name MB doesn't like = parents didn't take their kid's life seriously.

 

Interesting...not defending some names that have typically been "black"...but how about your thoughts on ...

Brayden, Braiden, Braden

Cayden, Caiden, Caden

And all odd spellings that even white parents find "unique"?

If those kids want jobs, better change all their names to John and Mary.

[frank 2,355]

Name MB doesn't like = parents didn't take their kid's life seriously.

 

Interesting...not defending some names that have typically been "black"...but how about your thoughts on ...

Brayden, Braiden, Braden

Cayden, Caiden, Caden

And all odd spellings that even white parents find "unique"?

I hate those kinds of names. I always assume the wife wears the pants and really wanted a girl.

[Artista 460]

I hate those kinds of names. I always assume the wife wears the pants and really wanted a girl.

Why isn't it the man wears the dress?

[Mungwater 601]

Why isn't it the man wears the dress?

MDC did say he named his kid Pierre, does that count?

[Artista 460]

MDC did say he named his kid Pierre, does that count?

No.

[Mungwater 601]

No.

But I bet he was wearing a dress and probably a bit of makeup

[Artista 460]

But I bet he was wearing a dress and probably a bit of makeup

No. Not enough. I want to hear people say he wears the dress instead of she wears the pants...

[peenie 2,027]

There was an international immunology symposium being held at our conference center and I was one of the people chosen to give out the badges, hotel/travel information and itinerary packets to the speakers presenting for this 2-day event. I wore a Marc Jacobs skirt suit, Ann Taylor blouse, Nine West shoes, my hair was short, dark brown, I wore light make-up; I looked professional. I worked with two other women, they were white. We sat at a long table where each of us were given the responsibility of handing out this information based on last names. So like one of us had A-G, another had H-M and I had N-Z. People lined up to get their information from the 2 white women, despite what their last names were. The woman who had A-G was wearing jeans and the woman who had H-M was an older white woman also wearing a skirt suit. The other women would try to tell the people who made the error in lining up in the wrong spot to come toward me, but at one point when it was very crowded the women simply reached over to my area to grab the packets from me.

 

In my lab, when people come in from the outside looking for the person in charge, they generally first seek out the white person or the male. If they do not find either they'll often leave without even bothering to ask me a question at all. At least a couple of hundred times I've had people come in the lab and speak to the white student first as if they are in charge before speaking to me. I've had men in suits walk right passed me while I'm wearing lab coat, badge...they'll go right to the white girl or boy or Indian or Asian.

 

My point is that all of those people, when they have been corrected and redirected to me have a kind, sweet, respectful behavior. Yet, MOST people are wired to not see the black person. It's not that they should see me as a person of authority, but I AM INVISIBLE and routinely ignored. The default in society is white, not black. The sad thing is all people follow this rule. So it's not like only white people ignore me, ALL people do.

 

Don't get me wrong, once people learn, I am the go-to-person. It just takes a moment. That is an obstacle to overcome. That is the white privilege that you don't know you have.

 

I may have mentioned that once I was asked to train someone that had not arrived yet. When the person met me he said, "Oh....I'm looking for the other Peenie."

I said, "I'm the only Peenie."

They said, "No, I'm here to learn how to use the DNA sequencer....umm, no, not you..."

Then they walked out.

Swear to God this happened.

They eventually came back and I trained them and we became great friends.

 

You see, the person isn't mean or ready to lynch blacks, but there is clearly bias there.

It's in MOST people. So I'd say that 80% of people, not just white people but ALL types of people think that blacks are inferior to whites (especially blacks themselves).

 

It is my opinion that the reason this view is so cemented in society is the media.

The media distorts who black people are and in turn influences the young to imitate these distorted images.

Thus, in the workforce we're not as likely to be hired and not as likely to be seen as valuable as our white counterparts.

 

And yes, the greatest cure is having children within the confines of a stable marriage.

 

And Voltaire, the SAT does not give extra points for being a minority, did you even read the paper you referenced?

College admissions giving SAT scores different weight based on the race of the student is different than the SAT adding 200 points to your test score depending on the race of the test taker.

I wrote a paper on IQ tests in my sophomore year in college and test scores are more directly linked to income than intelligence.

[penultimatestraw 473]

No. Not enough. I want to hear people say he wears the dress instead of she wears the pants...

But I think the cliche is based on women taking the traditional male role. Your version implies a male assuming a traditional female role, like cooking/cleaning/anal etc.

[Artista 460]

But I think the cliche is based on women taking the traditional male role. Your version implies a male assuming a traditional female role, like cooking/cleaning/anal etc.

I'm being facetious. It's my warped sense of humor..

[penultimatestraw 473]

There was an international immunology symposium being held at our conference center and I was one of the people chosen to give out the badges, hotel/travel information and itinerary packets to the speakers presenting for this 2-day event. I wore a Marc Jacobs skirt suit, Ann Taylor blouse, Nine West shoes, my hair was short, dark brown, I wore light make-up; I looked professional. I worked with two other women, they were white. We sat at a long table where each of us were given the responsibility of handing out this information based on last names. So like one of us had A-G, another had H-M and I had N-Z. People lined up to get their information from the 2 white women, despite what their last names were. The woman who had A-G was wearing jeans and the woman who had H-M was an older white woman also wearing a skirt suit. The other women would try to tell the people who made the error in lining up in the wrong spot to come toward me, but at one point when it was very crowded the women simply reached over to my area to grab the packets from me.

 

In my lab, when people come in from the outside looking for the person in charge, they generally first seek out the white person or the male. If they do not find either they'll often leave without even bothering to ask me a question at all. At least a couple of hundred times I've had people come in the lab and speak to the white student first as if they are in charge before speaking to me. I've had men in suits walk right passed me while I'm wearing lab coat, badge...they'll go right to the white girl or boy or Indian or Asian.

 

My point is that all of those people, when they have been corrected and redirected to me have a kind, sweet, respectful behavior. Yet, MOST people are wired to not see the black person. It's not that they should see me as a person of authority, but I AM INVISIBLE and routinely ignored. The default in society is white, not black. The sad thing is all people follow this rule. So it's not like only white people ignore me, ALL people do.

 

Don't get me wrong, once people learn, I am the go-to-person. It just takes a moment. That is an obstacle to overcome. That is the white privilege that you don't know you have.

 

I may have mentioned that once I was asked to train someone that had not arrived yet. When the person met me he said, "Oh....I'm looking for the other Peenie."

I said, "I'm the only Peenie."

They said, "No, I'm here to learn how to use the DNA sequencer....umm, no, not you..."

Then they walked out.

Swear to God this happened.

They eventually came back and I trained them and we became great friends.

 

You see, the person isn't mean or ready to lynch blacks, but there is clearly bias there.

It's in MOST people. So I'd say that 80% of people, not just white people but ALL types of people think that blacks are inferior to whites (especially blacks themselves).

 

It is my opinion that the reason this view is so cemented in society is the media.

The media distorts who black people are and in turn influences the young to imitate these distorted images.

Thus, in the workforce we're not as likely to be hired and not as likely to be seen as valuable as our white counterparts.

 

And yes, the greatest cure is having children within the confines of a stable marriage.

 

And Voltaire, the SAT does not give extra points for being a minority, did you even read the paper you referenced?

College admissions giving SAT scores different weight based on the race of the student is different than the SAT adding 200 points to your test score depending on the race of the test taker.

I wrote a paper on IQ tests in my sophomore year in college and test scores are more directly linked to income than intelligence.

Excellent illustration of what I've been trying to communicate. I think you are right that the vast majority of people are susceptible to the subtle biases you describe.

 

And in my experience the only people who complain about affirmative action are poor candidates for whatever they think minorities are taking from them.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I'm being facetious. It's my warped sense of humor..

Well, at least we agree on traditional female roles.

[Artista 460]

Well, at least we agree on traditional female roles.

Hey now, wait a minute!!

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

I hate those kinds of names. I always assume the wife wears the pants and really wanted a girl.

I make judgements on those types of names as well. The same ones I make about the made up ghetto names. Stupid isn't exclusive to one race.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,716]

If those kids want jobs, better change all their names to John and Mary.

John Doe and Mary Jane Rotten Crotch do not approve.

[MDC 8,136]

MDC did say he named his kid Pierre, does that count?

He wears it well.

[Voltaire 5,534]

There was an international immunology symposium being held at our conference center and I was one of the people chosen to give out the badges, hotel/travel information and itinerary packets to the speakers presenting for this 2-day event. I wore a Marc Jacobs skirt suit, Ann Taylor blouse, Nine West shoes, my hair was short, dark brown, I wore light make-up; I looked professional. I worked with two other women, they were white. We sat at a long table where each of us were given the responsibility of handing out this information based on last names. So like one of us had A-G, another had H-M and I had N-Z. People lined up to get their information from the 2 white women, despite what their last names were. The woman who had A-G was wearing jeans and the woman who had H-M was an older white woman also wearing a skirt suit. The other women would try to tell the people who made the error in lining up in the wrong spot to come toward me, but at one point when it was very crowded the women simply reached over to my area to grab the packets from me.

 

In my lab, when people come in from the outside looking for the person in charge, they generally first seek out the white person or the male. If they do not find either they'll often leave without even bothering to ask me a question at all. At least a couple of hundred times I've had people come in the lab and speak to the white student first as if they are in charge before speaking to me. I've had men in suits walk right passed me while I'm wearing lab coat, badge...they'll go right to the white girl or boy or Indian or Asian.

 

My point is that all of those people, when they have been corrected and redirected to me have a kind, sweet, respectful behavior. Yet, MOST people are wired to not see the black person. It's not that they should see me as a person of authority, but I AM INVISIBLE and routinely ignored. The default in society is white, not black. The sad thing is all people follow this rule. So it's not like only white people ignore me, ALL people do.

 

Don't get me wrong, once people learn, I am the go-to-person. It just takes a moment. That is an obstacle to overcome. That is the white privilege that you don't know you have.

 

I may have mentioned that once I was asked to train someone that had not arrived yet. When the person met me he said, "Oh....I'm looking for the other Peenie."

I said, "I'm the only Peenie."

They said, "No, I'm here to learn how to use the DNA sequencer....umm, no, not you..."

Then they walked out.

Swear to God this happened.

They eventually came back and I trained them and we became great friends.

 

You see, the person isn't mean or ready to lynch blacks, but there is clearly bias there.

It's in MOST people. So I'd say that 80% of people, not just white people but ALL types of people think that blacks are inferior to whites (especially blacks themselves).

 

It is my opinion that the reason this view is so cemented in society is the media.

The media distorts who black people are and in turn influences the young to imitate these distorted images.

Thus, in the workforce we're not as likely to be hired and not as likely to be seen as valuable as our white counterparts.

 

And yes, the greatest cure is having children within the confines of a stable marriage.

 

And Voltaire, the SAT does not give extra points for being a minority, did you even read the paper you referenced?

College admissions giving SAT scores different weight based on the race of the student is different than the SAT adding 200 points to your test score depending on the race of the test taker.

I wrote a paper on IQ tests in my sophomore year in college and test scores are more directly linked to income than intelligence.

Thank you for illustrating a bit of what it is that you experience as it's likely a recurring subtle semi-daily or semi-weekly subconscious racial dig you must regularly endure.

 

As for college admissions, I know the law. Not just because of my visceral hatred of racial preferences but doubly so because these twin lawsuits were filed against the University of Michigan, so I took an even more personal interest than I would have had they been from any of the other states. So I do realize that the actual practice of explicitly adding points to admissions applications and then scoring them using a math formula was banned. As are quotas. But the scoring practice was easily gotten around because, the same day that ruling came down, a second ruling, the much more important of the two, illuminated the path to racial preference was acceptable so long as the process was made fuzzy. It seemed that day that even though adding points for race was banned, nothing other than cosmetic changes had to occur at all. And that's how it turned out.

 

So instead for colleges insistent on using race to sort candidates, it was easily accomplished by transitioning into more of a wink/nod race conscious thing in order to comply with the court order by making the paper trail harder to trace. I think we're both agreeing is happening, are we not, to the tune of the equivalent of a 230 SAT point increase for being of the right color?

 

Maybe you think the racism by a thousand paper cuts you experience equalizes or more so the blunt force trauma of overt racial prejudice against whites and asians is admissions, scholarships, government contracts, and personnel decisions. I concede you have a point. Although my position remains the same that it doesn't, I admit that I hadn't considered that before.

 

 

[penultimatestraw 473]

Maybe you think the racism by a thousand paper cuts you experience equalizes or more so the blunt force trauma of overt racial prejudice against whites and asians is admissions, scholarships, government contracts, and personnel decisions. I concede you have a point. Although my position remains the same that it doesn't, I admit that I hadn't considered that before.

I think that is exactly the point of AA - there is so much inherent bias against minorities, be it their access to education, healthcare, etc. or subtle, maybe subconscious actions by the majority, that a little boost in the other direction may level the playing field.

 

Although I don't like the "two wrongs can make a right" logic behind it, I hardly believe AA places the white majority behind any minority with respect to opportunity. Especially blacks. Moreover, the existence of different criteria for hiring/education/scholarships fosters the idea that minorities didn't earn their position relative to their white peers.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

I think that is exactly the point of AA - there is so much inherent bias against minorities, be it their access to education, healthcare, etc. or subtle, maybe subconscious actions by the majority, that a little boost in the other direction may level the playing field.

 

Although I don't like the "two wrongs can make a right" logic behind it, I hardly believe AA places the white majority behind any minority with respect to opportunity. Especially blacks. Moreover, the existence of different criteria for hiring/education/scholarships fosters the idea that minorities didn't earn their position relative to their white peers.

Sounds to me you guys are describing conditioning, not racism. People are just reacting to what they are used to.

[Voltaire 5,534]

I think that is exactly the point of AA - there is so much inherent bias against minorities, be it their access to education, healthcare, etc. or subtle, maybe subconscious actions by the majority, that a little boost in the other direction may level the playing field.

 

Although I don't like the "two wrongs can make a right" logic behind it, I hardly believe AA places the white majority behind any minority with respect to opportunity. Especially blacks. Moreover, the existence of different criteria for hiring/education/scholarships fosters the idea that minorities didn't earn their position relative to their white peers.

I'll never concede any point regarding access to education or healthcare as that has nothing to do with it since that's a trans-racial socioeconomic problem and cuts directly to the heart of my rage against the unfairness of AA.. Although those numbers surely skew better for whites, it's not all inclusive. The reality is many white children don't have that while many minority children do. Yet affirmative action doesn't recognize or see that. It sees poverty as a matter of race which is not the case. Affirmative action does most to benefit affluent minorities who overcame jack squat nothing by way of lack of education or healthcare and minimal to no racial oppression or discrimination while being nothing but another hindrance and burden to white children that don't have that.

 

 

If we're going to talk about using overcoming poverty and lack of access to health care and educational opportunities as being the main factor if preferences are to be assigned, we can agree to agree. That always has been my talking point and I want it back.

 

 

 

 

[penultimatestraw 473]

I'll never concede any point regarding access to education or healthcare as that has nothing to do with it since that's a trans-racial socioeconomic problem and cuts directly to the heart of my rage against the unfairness of AA.. Although those numbers surely skew better for whites, it's not all inclusive. The reality is many white children don't have that while many minority children do. Yet affirmative action doesn't recognize or see that. It sees poverty as a matter of race which is not the case. Affirmative action does most to benefit affluent minorities who overcame jack squat nothing by way of lack of education or healthcare and minimal to no racial oppression or discrimination while being nothing but another hindrance and burden to white children that don't have that.

 

 

If we're going to talk about using overcoming poverty and lack of access to health care and educational opportunities as being the main factor if preferences are to be assigned, we can agree to agree. That always has been my talking point and I want it back.

 

 

 

It's hard to separate socioeconomic status from race, but at least with respect to health measures, African Americans get the short end of the stick. Infant mortality and life expectancy are substantially worse, for example.

 

Also, how do you know who benefits most from AA?

[Voltaire 5,534]

It's hard to separate socioeconomic status from race, but at least with respect to health measures, African Americans get the short end of the stick. Infant mortality and life expectancy are substantially worse, for example.

 

Also, how do you know who benefits most from AA?

And yet again the outliers are poor whites and well off blacks.

 

 

 

And I know who benefits from AA because I know a lot about AA. I've read much more than a column or two on the subject. You could say I'm obsessed with it. Unlike say abortion or gay marriage -social issues that I don't much care about- unequal opportunity and overt racism directed at me and my children and the community and friends that I grew up with makes AA a social issue that infuriates me like no other. I exude white trashiness from every pore in my body. We have enough problems to deal with. So while I've no gripe with anyone that wants to extend a hand to poor minorities, to ask me to not be resentful when being p*ssed on by well off minorities is asking a heck of a lot.

 

Also, my position on AA is identical to that of Henry Louis Gates the Harvard professor of Beer Summit fame:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2013/10/22/henry-louis-gates-end-affirmative-action-affluent-african-american

 

Poor people of all races would appreciate a hand up but all white trash get is the middle finger up.

 

So how do I know who benefits? Well I'm pretty well versed in AA. There's been research. I deliberately went looking for a piece not by anti-AA source as that would turn you off as biased with an agenda. Instead I went looking for someone willing to defend preferences for middle class blacks. Understand that I disagree with this author, but I respect the fairness of the author here and see more truth here well thought out: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/07/03/why-we-still-need-affirmative-action-for-african-americans-in-college-admissions/

[penultimatestraw 473]

And yet again the outliers are poor whites and well off blacks.

 

 

 

And I know who benefits from AA because I know a lot about AA. I've read much more than a column or two on the subject. You could say I'm obsessed with it. Unlike say abortion or gay marriage -social issues that I don't much care about- unequal opportunity and overt racism directed at me and my children and the community and friends that I grew up with makes AA a social issue that infuriates me like no other. I exude white trashiness from every pore in my body. We have enough problems to deal with. So while I've no gripe with anyone that wants to extend a hand to poor minorities, to ask me to not be resentful when being p*ssed on by well off minorities is asking a heck of a lot.

 

Also, my position on AA is identical to that of Henry Louis Gates the Harvard professor of Beer Summit fame:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2013/10/22/henry-louis-gates-end-affirmative-action-affluent-african-american

 

Poor people of all races would appreciate a hand up but all white trash get is the middle finger up.

 

So how do I know who benefits? Well I'm pretty well versed in AA. There's been research. I deliberately went looking for a piece not by anti-AA source as that would turn you off as biased with an agenda. Instead I went looking for someone willing to defend preferences for middle class blacks. Understand that I disagree with this author, but I respect the fairness of the author here and see more truth here well thought out: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/07/03/why-we-still-need-affirmative-action-for-african-americans-in-college-admissions/

Fair enough - I'm not advocating AA as a solution for racial disparities, but still contend the poor white guy has more opportunity than a black dude of equal socioeconomic status. It would be easy enough to eliminate race from college and scholarship applications, but how can you prevent subtle bias, like Peenie mentioned or the studies I linked, from having an impact?

 

As an aside, I grew up relatively poor (ate government cheese, my childhood home was condemned, etc.), yet still was able to do well in school and garner a scholarship despite my upbringing. I never felt my hard work was subjugate to racial quotas/AA on any level. African americans were underrepresented in my science classes and med school, so it is difficult to empathize with your contempt for AA. Maybe it is a bigger problem in other fields? This paper suggest scholarships aren't mal-distributed to blacks: http://www.finaid.org/scholarships/20110902racescholarships.pdf

 

This paper presents data concerning the distribution of grants and scholarships by race. It debunks the race myth, which claims that minority students receive more than their fair share of scholarships. The reality is that minority students are less likely to win private scholarships or receive merit-based institutional grants than Caucasian1 students. Among undergraduate students enrolled full-time/full-year in Bachelor’s degree programs at four-year colleges and universities, minority students represent about a third of applicants but slightly more than a quarter of private scholarship recipients. Caucasian students receive more than three-quarters (76%) of all institutional merit-based scholarship and grant funding, even though they represent less than two-thirds (62%) of the student population. Caucasian students are 40% more likely to win private scholarships than minority students.

Of course, maybe the African Americans who received scholarships had worse credentials than Caucasian applicants, yet still couldn't garner $ commensurate with their % in the general student population. In any event, there doesn't appear to be a huge impact from AA.

[Voltaire 5,534]

Fair enough - I'm not advocating AA as a solution for racial disparities, but still contend the poor white guy has more opportunity than a black dude of equal socioeconomic status. It would be easy enough to eliminate race from college and scholarship applications, but how can you prevent subtle bias, like Peenie mentioned or the studies I linked, from having an impact?

 

As an aside, I grew up relatively poor (ate government cheese, my childhood home was condemned, etc.), yet still was able to do well in school and garner a scholarship despite my upbringing. I never felt my hard work was subjugate to racial quotas/AA on any level. African americans were underrepresented in my science classes and med school, so it is difficult to empathize with your contempt for AA. Maybe it is a bigger problem in other fields?

 

I can relate to the observation that whites of lower economic status are still better off than blacks of low income. I live just north of 8 Mile not south of it. In Detroit, 8 Mile is like the railroad tracks in every other city. It serves as the border between Detroit city limits and the inner ring blue collar suburbs. I grew up on the good side of 8 Mile, meaning north in the suburbs. Detroit had a racially charged housing situation that heavily affected it's demographics. Practices like steering, blockbusting, and redlining were practiced there until they became illegal in the 60s. While this was before I was born in 1971, after then and a few years after the riots, the affects were still in place when I was a kid.

 

Eastpointe today is majority minority but when I was a young kid, it was 100% all white (trash). South of 8 Mile, inside city limits, however was hemmoraging people and becoming smaller and more black. Homes in the suburbs were and still are, maintained and relatively safe, even poor ones like mine, in the city, Coleman Young was rapidly turning everything to poo. While other major cities got black leaders with a temperament similar to Obummer, Detoit got 22 years of a local Al Sharpton.

 

So because of the steering of the pre-60s, poor whites can be found in the relatively decent neighborhood of inner ring Easpointe, while poor blacks were stuck in the cesspool of Coloman Young's creation: inner city Detroit. If poor whites get money, they move from our suburb to the nice ones further north. The homes are old and were paid off by grandpa and still maintain some value of like $70K or so which can be used as a down payment. Similar homes in Detroit can't be sold even though the asking price may only be $10K. Nobody wants to buy homes in Coleman and Kwame's crime and blight infested paradise no matter the price. Blacks with some money spend $70k to come to Eastpointe because even if their home there is decent, they're sick of the city too.

 

So what you get in Easpointe are poor whites with paid off houses who can't afford nice houses in the nice suburbs and a black middle class whose decent jobs provided enough money to escape Detroit but not enough to go very far.

 

As poor white kids growing up there, we knew we were better off than the poor black kids south of 8 Mile even though our parents weren't making any more money than theirs were. Detroit is a gutted blighted out dump. Homes in Eastpointe are still and always have been maintained. We'd rather homes be bought by black or any color homeowners than by a landlord buy it and rent it to white people. Homeowners care, whereas landlords/renters don't give a sh1t. But we're better off with renters than with empty homes. The blacks are keeping the place up, Eastpointe residential streets look the same as they always had. More dollar stores, rental, and resale shops on the main roads though.

[Voltaire 5,534]

Maybe it is a bigger problem in other fields? This paper suggest scholarships aren't mal-distributed to blacks: http://www.finaid.org/scholarships/20110902racescholarships.pdf

 

Of course, maybe the African Americans who received scholarships had worse credentials than Caucasian applicants, yet still couldn't garner $ commensurate with their % in the general student population. In any event, there doesn't appear to be a huge impact from AA.

I was 20 years old, a war veteran, a year's worth of transfer credits from the University of Maryland (which followed the Army to bases in Germany with satellite classes) where I was on the Dean's List with a >3.5 GPA and high SAT scores despite my 4th rate education. I probably could have won a full ride scholarship to a really good school.

 

Although it was always my dream to go to college, I didn't actually know anybody who'd been there. I could have used some good advice. It wouldn't be until much later that I'd learn I may have been eligible for a great scholarship at an elite school. But I was scared off by their tuition prices and didn't try. Plus I knew I was poor and the wrong color. I applied to the three closest public schools to my mother's house: Wayne State, Oakland, and Eastern Michigan, got into all three, and chose Wayne State because it was closest and the lowest price.

 

I also missed Detroit and my family too much I suppose. If I could go back and advised my younger self, this is where I could have used the help most. I still to this day don't know what I missed out on. I had been flooded with unsolicited college brochures in HS due likely to my high SAT/ACT scores, I should have followed up, but the prices scared the cr@p out of me. At that time, I also knew that I was going in the Army because debt scared me. At Wayne State, it was in my price range, I knew my Army benefits would cover the cost and that gave me peace of mind. I wasn't going to go anywhere that required a loan. Going into debt scared the sh1t out of me and also defeated the purpose of slaving in that sh1thole organization for three years. I could have at least tried though, see what scholarships I could get but that whole process seemed complicated and intimidated and confused me. I had a lot going for me. I just didn't appreciate or know it.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I was 20 years old, a war veteran, a year's worth of transfer credits from the University of Maryland (which followed the Army to bases in Germany with satellite classes) where I was on the Dean's List with a >3.5 GPA and high SAT scores despite my 4th rate education. I probably could have won a full ride scholarship to a really good school.

 

Although it was always my dream to go to college, I didn't actually know anybody who'd been there. I could have used some good advice. It wouldn't be until much later that I'd learn I may have been eligible for a great scholarship at an elite school. But I was scared off by their tuition prices and didn't try. Plus I knew I was poor and the wrong color. I applied to the three closest public schools to my mother's house: Wayne State, Oakland, and Eastern Michigan, got into all three, and chose Wayne State because it was closest and the lowest price.

 

I also missed Detroit and my family too much I suppose. If I could go back and advised my younger self, this is where I could have used the help most. I still to this day don't know what I missed out on. I had been flooded with unsolicited college brochures in HS due likely to my high SAT/ACT scores, I should have followed up, but the prices scared the cr@p out of me. At that time, I also knew that I was going in the Army because debt scared me. At Wayne State, I knew my Army benefits would cover the cost. Again, going into debt scared the sh1t out of me and also defeated the purpose of slaving in that sh1thole organization for three years. Looking at the tuition and knowing my Army benefits would cover it gave me peace of mind. I could have at least tried though, see what scholarships I could get but that whole process seemed complicated and intimidated and confused me.

That's unfortunate for you, I guess, but in no way reflects any ill-effects of AA on you scholarship/college candidacy.

[Voltaire 5,534]

That's unfortunate for you, I guess, but in no way reflects any ill-effects of AA on you scholarship/college candidacy.

No it doesn't. You'd commented that you didn't know how it was in other other fields and this is a long way of saying ' I don't know'.

 

Maybe it also speaks to my lack of 'white privledge' I was totally clueless of how the college admissions process works when it was my time to apply so it's entirely possible I'm channelling residual bitterness. Between talking about this and AA it's putting me in a really foul mood. I have a rather large chip on my shoulder.

 

I'm in a better situation though to advise my kids. I'd really like to think by the time they apply they won't have to worry about getting discriminated against. The internet helps too.