Russell Wilson's new deal - wow.

[cbfalcon 824]

I got $50 on Wilson having 30 passing TDs this season. Anyone game?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

But Wilson wasn't the one making them better or win - the #1 ranked defense and the #1 ranked running games were.

And his 97.8 qb rating that is better than Manning or Brady. Plus his elite running ability that combines vision, instinct, awareness, and intelligence. This is all complimentary to his actual physical running ability, which while not high end like Vick or young RG3, its enough to make him one of the best scramblers of all time, adding to his overall greatness beyond just looking at passing stats.

[parrot 789]

He had a horrid game against Green Bay, and his rating in his brief playoff history is still 97.8. Thats pretty damn good. Thanks for making my point even stronger.

 

That's because in his other playoff games he has only thrown two picks, which is great, as long as your team can thrive on a 60% completion rate for 227 yards and 1.5 passing tds per game. It's a tip that most teams can't.

[Cruzer 1,992]

And his 97.8 qb rating that is better than Manning or Brady. Plus his elite running ability that combines vision, instinct, awareness, and intelligence. This is all complimentary to his actual physical running ability, which while not high end like Vick or young RG3, its enough to make him one of the best scramblers of all time, adding to his overall greatness beyond just looking at passing stats.

If Brady or Manning had to only complete 15 passes a game - they'd certainly have similar numbers.

 

But it is a good point about the running aspect of Wilson's game... It's clearly effective, but for how long? Do you really want your $22m a year Qb running wild down the field? I don't.

[Cruzer 1,992]

I got $50 on Wilson having 30 passing TDs this season. Anyone game?

He could, especially with Graham now........ But I like to gamble - I got it.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

 

That's because in his other playoff games he has only thrown two picks, which is great, as long as your team can thrive on a 60% completion rate for 227 yards and 1.5 passing tds per game. It's a tip that a most teams can't.

He isnt just a pocket qb. Not sure why you are basically ignoring his elite ability to scramble. It makes defenses more honest. Its not all about passing numbers.

[edjr 5,567]

He could, especially with Graham now........ But I like to gamble - I got it.

 

A good bet between 2 people that will pay up.

 

[tanatastic 2,061]

What does the kid have to do to earn respect besides be one of the most successful young qbs ever? Does he need to poison the entire defense and Marshawn then go out and win a game? As I said earlier, people arent actually watching the games. If you just see a box score of 27-14, see that Russell only threw for 1 td and just pfft and write him off like he didnt earn it, pay more attention. What game managing coattail riding qbs finish as fantasy QB3 like Russ did? Not many if any. As the hawks are challenging for the NFC title yet again this year, keep doubting. Im a packer fan too so this pains me.

[cbfalcon 824]

He could, especially with Graham now........ But I like to gamble - I got it.

 

 

So your saying having a legit receiver could help his stats? But you've been down on him in this thread for not opening up the passing game with weapons like Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kerse, and Luke Wilson.

[Cruzer 1,992]

 

A good bet between 2 people that will pay up.

 

Maybe Mike will get on board - donate a FFToday t-shirt to the winner too.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

If Brady or Manning had to only complete 15 passes a game - they'd certainly have similar numbers.

 

But it is a good point about the running aspect of Wilson's game... It's clearly effective, but for how long? Do you really want your $22m a year Qb running wild down the field? I don't.

Dude this isnt RG3 we are talking about who is either too arrogant or too stupid to slide. Wilson takes what the defense gives and then goes down. Plus it includes his in pocket scramble ability that keeps plays alive for ridiculous amounts of time. Lets see Brady or Manning do that. We wont.

 

Its impossible to just say if he has to throw more his rating will not extrapolate proportionately. Its also impossible to say Manning and Brady would have better numbers if they just passed less.

 

Maybe a part of Wilsons greatness, which may also contribute to his hi qb rating, is knowing when not to throw it. He knows it will be incomplete, so he just doesnt throw the ball.

[edjr 5,567]

Maybe Mike will get on board - donate a FFToday t-shirt to the winner too.

 

 

you have a better chance of gfiafp telling the truth

[Cruzer 1,992]

 

 

So your saying having a legit receiver could help his stats? But you've been down on him in this thread for not opening up the passing game with weapons like Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kerse, and Luke Wilson.

No - having a legit red zone wr makes a difference.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

What does the kid have to do to earn respect besides be one of the most successful young qbs ever? Does he need to poison the entire defense and Marshawn then go out and win a game? As I said earlier, people arent actually watching the games. If you just see a box score of 27-14, see that Russell only threw for 1 td and just pfft and write him off like he didnt earn it, pay more attention. What game managing coattail riding qbs finish as fantasy QB3 like Russ did? Not many if any. As the hawks are challenging for the NFC title yet again this year, keep doubting. Im a packer fan too so this pains me.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

No - having a legit red zone wr makes a difference.

So you are saying his numbers will likely get better?

[parrot 789]

What does the kid have to do to earn respect besides be one of the most successful young qbs ever? Does he need to poison the entire defense and Marshawn then go out and win a game? As I said earlier, people arent actually watching the games. If you just see a box score of 27-14, see that Russell only threw for 1 td and just pfft and write him off like he didnt earn it, pay more attention. What game managing coattail riding qbs finish as fantasy QB3 like Russ did? Not many if any. As the hawks are challenging for the NFC title yet again this year, keep doubting. Im a packer fan too so this pains me.

 

I respect him. I think he's a very good young QB. I just don't believe he's "second biggest contract in history" good.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Dude this isnt RG3 we are talking about who is either too arrogant or too stupid to slide. Wilson takes what the defense gives and then goes down. Plus it includes his in pocket scramble ability that keeps plays alive for ridiculous amounts of time. Lets see Brady or Manning do that. We wont.

 

Its impossible to just say if he has to throw more his rating will not extrapolate proportionately. Its also impossible to say Manning and Brady would have better numbers if they just passed less.

 

Maybe a part of Wilsons greatness, which may also contribute to his hi qb rating, is knowing when not to throw it. He knows it will be incomplete, so he just doesnt throw the ball.

I don't care who you are - I get nervous when I see my $22m a year, franchise qb running down field... But it's part of his game, a deadly weapon and a gift - so I understand him doing it.

[Cruzer 1,992]

So you are saying his numbers will likely get better?

His passing td's may increase - certainly... Of course if form holds true - his defense will have forced a turnover on the opponents 5 yard line, or Beast Mode will have marched them downt the field running off chunks of 7 yards a pop.

[cbfalcon 824]

Just for kicks....Which guy do you want?

 

Player A over his first 3 seasons:

• 61% Passing
• 9,950 yards
• 72 TDs, 26 INT
• 36-12 Record
• 1 SB Title

 

Player B over his first 3 seasons:

• 62% Passing
• 10,227 yards
• 69 TDs, 38 INT
• 34-12 Record
• 1 SB title

[edjr 5,567]

Just for kicks....Which guy do you want?

 

Player A over his first 3 seasons:

• 61% Passing
• 9,950 yards
• 72 TDs, 26 INT
• 36-12 Record
• 1 SB Title

 

Player B over his first 3 seasons:

• 62% Passing
• 10,227 yards
• 69 TDs, 38 INT
• 34-12 Record
• 1 SB title

 

The white one

[tanatastic 2,061]

Just for kicks....Which guy do you want?

 

Player A over his first 3 seasons:

• 61% Passing
• 9,950 yards
• 72 TDs, 26 INT
• 36-12 Record
• 1 SB Title

 

Player B over his first 3 seasons:

• 62% Passing
• 10,227 yards
• 69 TDs, 38 INT
• 34-12 Record
• 1 SB title

Ill take player A obviously but the numbers are so close id call them extremely comaprable. Like almost identical comparable.

[parrot 789]

 

Player B over his first 3 seasons:

 

• 1 SB title

 

[cbfalcon 824]

The numbers are so close that it's hard to choose one.

 

Although if we add in scrambling one of them has 1,811 yards and 7 TDs to add. Whereas the other only has 213 yards and 2 TDs. I didn't want to add that in though, as it would make it too obvious.

[tanatastic 2,061]

The numbers are so close that it's hard to choose one.

 

Although if we add in scrambling one of them has 1,811 yards and 7 TDs to add. Whereas the other only has 213 yards and 2 TDs. I didn't want to add that in though, as it would make it too obvious.

Well in that case its an open and shut situation, those are pretty huge rushing stats for 3 seasons. Were talking about one of the leagues most dangerous offensive weapons in that case.

[cbfalcon 824]

 

Good catch. I misread the symbols by the stats. But as not to give it away to the people that don't feel like thinking for 6 seconds:

 

Player A over his first 3 seasons:

• 61% Passing
• 9,950 yards
• 72 TDs, 26 INT
• 36-12 Record
• 2 SB appearances.

 

Player B over his first 3 seasons:

• 62% Passing
• 10,227 yards
• 69 TDs, 38 INT
• 34-12 Record
• 2 SB appearances.

 

They really are very similar. Both not high draft picks. Both managed teams with strong defenses to lots of wins. Neither had any pass catching weapons. Both cool under pressure, leaders that teammates rally around, first to show up and last to leave types, etc.......

[edjr 5,567]

 

Good catch. I misread the symbols by the stats. But as not to give it away to the people that don't feel like thinking for 6 seconds:

 

Player A over his first 3 seasons:

• 61% Passing
• 9,950 yards
• 72 TDs, 26 INT
• 36-12 Record
• 2 SB appearances.

Player B over his first 3 seasons:

• 62% Passing
• 10,227 yards
• 69 TDs, 38 INT
• 34-12 Record
• 2 SB appearances.

 

 

The white one

[parrot 789]

The numbers are so close that it's hard to choose one.

 

Although if we add in scrambling one of them has 1,811 yards and 7 TDs to add. Whereas the other only has 213 yards and 2 TDs. I didn't want to add that in though, as it would make it too obvious.

 

The question should not be "Which one do you choose?" it should be "Which one do you make the second highest paid player in the league at that point in their career?" And the answer should be "neither".

 

Also, if we're adding addendums, it should be noted how much the baseline for "elite QB" performance has moved in 12 years. A 5000 yard season was a 1-off in 2003, now it's fairly common. 35+ passing TDs were extremely rare as well, now they're expected from top-level passers.

 

Also, also, in player B's second SB "appearance", he threw for 350 yards and 3 tds, set the Superbowl record for completions, and brought his team from behind multiple times, finally winning a 32-29 shootout to get a second ring. Player A is blamed by his team's own fans for losing his second SuperBowl appearance.

[tanatastic 2,061]

 

Good catch. I misread the symbols by the stats. But as not to give it away to the people that don't feel like thinking for 6 seconds:

 

Player A over his first 3 seasons:

• 61% Passing
• 9,950 yards
• 72 TDs, 26 INT
• 36-12 Record
• 2 SB appearances.

 

Player B over his first 3 seasons:

• 62% Passing
• 10,227 yards
• 69 TDs, 38 INT
• 34-12 Record
• 2 SB appearances.

 

They really are very similar. Both not high draft picks. Both managed teams with strong defenses to lots of wins. Neither had any pass catching weapons. Both cool under pressure, leaders that teammates rally around, first to show up and last to leave types, etc.......

Ok I need a clue..Is one of them known as one of the all time cheatingest qbs? Did one of these guys win a SB on the back of a completely made up on the spot rule to overturn a fumble in the afc chamionship in a year when america needed a "patriotic" team to win it all?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

His passing td's may increase - certainly... Of course if form holds true - his defense will have forced a turnover on the opponents 5 yard line, or Beast Mode will have marched them downt the field running off chunks of 7 yards a pop.

Oh so Wilson has to throw, catch, run, pass, and play defense to be considered elite? Thats odd considering all other elite qbs need help on the field.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Oh so Wilson has to throw, catch, run, pass, and play defense to be considered elite? Thats odd considering all other elite qbs need help on the field.

No - he has to show he's not a 15 completion per game bus driver.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,919]

Since Rodgers became the highest paid QB in the league, how many times have they been to the Super Bowl, forget about winning it?

 

 

 

Same thing when Brees signed his big deal. The team took a major hit not being able to sign significant role players. We lost pro bowl offensive line men and it made a big difference. He doesn't have that time in the pocket like he did before. And it's on him.

[tanatastic 2,061]

No - he has to show he's not a 15 completion per game bus driver.

Not according to every player, coach, scout in the nfl. Its basically down to "some dudes on a low trafficked message board" who dont realize Wilson is Elite, has stats that compare with the all time great pocket passers as well as runners and has already carved out a growing legend.

 

Game managers dont finish top 3 in fantasy stats.

[parrot 789]

Ok I need a clue..Is one of them known as one of the all time cheatingest qbs? Did one of these guys win a SB on the back of a completely made up on the spot rule to overturn a fumble in the afc chamionship in a year when america needed a "patriotic" team to win it all?

 

Ignorance is nothing to be proud of son.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Not according to every player, coach, scout in the nfl. Its basically down to "some dudes on a low trafficked message board" who dont realize Wilson is Elite, has stats that compare with the all time great pocket passers as well as runners and has already carved out a growing legend.

Exactly - which is why I keep saying "I" don't think he's an elite qb. I don't speak for anyone else.

[cbfalcon 824]

 

The question should not be "Which one do you choose?" it should be "Which one do you make the second highest paid player in the league at that point in their career?" And the answer should be "neither".

 

Also, if we're adding addendums, it should be noted how much the baseline for "elite QB" performance has moved in 12 years. A 5000 yard season was a 1-off in 2003, now it's fairly common. 35+ passing TDs were extremely rare as well, now they're expected from top-level passers.

I'll give you that the numbers aren't #2 paid QB worthy. And I'll give you that passing numbers have went up. But with that, it's surprising that guy 12 years ago threw so many more interceptions. He fumbled a lot more as well.

 

Really, we are having two different arguments. i argue Russell Wilson is so good at this point that you cannot let him leave under any circumstances. And that means paying up. Contracts are about leverage and timing..... But if every single QB in the league were a free agent this year and players could only sign 1 year deals (which helps take age out of the situation), my guess is Wilson would get his $22m. But I also am guessing he would be the 5-7th highest paid QB this coming season.

[parrot 789]

Not according to every player, coach, scout in the nfl. Its basically down to "some dudes on a low trafficked message board" who dont realize Wilson is Elite, has stats that compare with the all time great pocket passers as well as runners and has already carved out a growing legend.

 

Game managers dont finish top 3 in fantasy stats.

 

[Magnificent Bastard 190]

List of reasons for the Seahawks recent success:

 

Defense

Running game

Russell Wilson

 

That doesn't mean Wilson is not, or can't be elite. It's just the way it has worked on that team. As a QB, I think his best days are ahead. As a team, they are at or near the end of the formula that got them in the Super Bowl twice.

[NewbieJr 540]

Wilson got his money and is responsible for the Seahawks imminent decline in the next few years.

 

They were as good as they were because he was being paid so little, which freed up money elsewhere. Welcome to having the same problems as the Saints. Wilson is the #2 paid QB and is probably around 10-12 in the league. Selfish and foolish.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Game managers dont finish top 3 in fantasy stats.

That is a good point.... I've not played ff in a few years - but I'd be willing to be that his point totals were largely inflated by running stats.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Wilson got his money and is responsible for the Seahawks imminent decline in the next few years.

 

They were as good as they were because he was being paid so little, which freed up money elsewhere. Welcome to having the same problems as the Saints. Wilson is the #2 paid QB and is probably around 10-12 in the league. Selfish and foolish.

10-12 is an absolute travesty. I could understand if you said he was the 6th or so, but you absolutely cannot name 10 qbs better than him. the dude has absolutely killed it, won titles, led epic comebacks, everything.