Russell Wilson's new deal - wow.

[tanatastic 2,061]

That is a good point.... I've not played ff in a few years - but I'd be willing to be that his point totals were largely inflated by running stats.

Well yea. Rushing stats are offensive stats that contribute to the offensive success of a player and team tho. They cant be weighed down or held against him. They are a plus for his argument.

[parrot 789]

10-12 is an absolute travesty. I could understand if you said he was the 6th or so, but you absolutely cannot name 10 qbs better than him. the dude has absolutely killed it, won titles, led epic comebacks, everything.

 

Lol at trying to give him credit for a comeback where his play was pretty much the sole reason they had to come back in the first place.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Wilson got his money and is responsible for the Seahawks imminent decline in the next few years.

 

They were as good as they were because he was being paid so little, which freed up money elsewhere. Welcome to having the same problems as the Saints. Wilson is the #2 paid QB and is probably around 10-12 in the league. Selfish and foolish.

Name the 11 qbs better than him.

[NewbieJr 540]

10-12 is an absolute travesty. I could understand if you said he was the 6th or so, but you absolutely cannot name 10 qbs better than him. the dude has absolutely killed it, won titles, led epic comebacks, everything.

He's been blessed. Top running back in the league. Best defense in the league. The stars have aligned for Wilson. I am impressed with his calmness. And his ability to run. But that running thing is fleeting. Ask RG3. Once his salary starts handcuffing the team, we'll see how good he is.

 

I also find it funny that Wilson gets a free pass for trying to force that ball into that tint window which cost Seattle the Super Bowl. Everyone blames Carroll for the play call. And rightfully so. But with the game on the line, Wilson can't make that throw. It was horrible. Carroll kept him from being the goat of that game.

[tanatastic 2,061]

 

Lol at trying to give him credit for a comeback where his play was pretty much the sole reason they had to come back in the first place.

Everyone has bad games. Thats the whole point of the comeback. To overcome a bad game, come back and win is yet another argument FOR him, not against.

[NewbieJr 540]

Name the 11 qbs better than him.

Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, Luck. Those five can't even be argued. Put them on Seattle with Lynch in the backfield and that defense, and they might never lose a game.

 

Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Flacco.

 

I'd probably put Wilson next. Just ahead of Romo and Eli.

[edjr 5,567]

Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, Luck. Those five can't even be argued. Put them on Seattle with Lynch in the backfield and that defense, and they might never lose a game.

 

Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Flacco.

 

I'd probably put Wilson next. Just ahead of Romo and Eli.

 

Excellent point.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Rivers, the ultimate choke artist? Matt Ryan is just a solid qb. He has how many playoff wins?

 

Wilson is better than Manning, who had a solid defense, DThomas, E Sanders, and JThomas and still couldnt make it to the SB. His arm is done.

 

Andrew Luck is arguably worse than Wilson. His playoff numbers arent very good. I said arguably because the stats show there is an argument that can be made.

 

Rodgers and Brady are the only two who cant be argued right at this moment. Anyone else there is an argument that can be made.

 

Rodgers, Brady, Luck, Brees, Flacco, Eli and Ben are the only qbs who have an argument to be better than Wilson. Matt Ryan and Rivers? No effing way.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, Luck. Those five can't even be argued. Put them on Seattle with Lynch in the backfield and that defense, and they might never lose a game.

 

Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Flacco.

 

I'd probably put Wilson next. Just ahead of Romo and Eli.

Your on Crack if you think Flacco and Rivers are better or even as good as Russell. Ill give you Big Ben, hes a baller. Ryan is completely, 100% a guy that needs good teammates to elevate his game rather than vice versa. Id say Wilson has done zero to earn a spot any lower than tied with Ben. Its even debateable that hes not better than Luck, considering hes done better and his stats are comparable.

 

you know how to really evaluate a qb? Watch the game first of all..Then pay attention to what happens on 3rd downs. Dont focus on the box scores (wilsons are incredible) or the wins (he wins a ton) but just look at what happens when hes on third down. Does he make plays, move the chains, do awesome things? Thats what a great qb does and thats what Wilson does.

[NewbieJr 540]

Rivers, the ultimate choke artist? Matt Ryan is just a solid qb. He has how many playoff wins?

 

Wilson is better than Manning, who had a solid defense, DThomas, E Sanders, and JThomas and still couldnt make it to the SB. His arm is done.

 

Andrew Luck is arguably worse than Wilson. His playoff numbers arent very good. I said arguably because the stats show there is an argument that can be made.

 

Rodgers and Brady are the only two who cant be argued right at this moment. Anyone else there is an argument that can be made.

 

Rodgers, Brady, Luck, Brees, Flacco, Eli and Ben are the only qbs who have an argument to be better than Wilson. Matt Ryan and Rivers? No effing way.

Wilson's best attribute was that he was playing for peanuts and that freed up money for defense/Lynch, etc. He stepped into sh!t by being on that team. Wilson has never been asked to carry that team. He's no Rodgers or Manning or Brees or Brady. As the earlier stat says, he's never won a game where the defense gave up 24 points or more. His job is to not screw it up. Which he does well.

[NewbieJr 540]

Your on Crack if you think Flacco and Rivers are better or even as good as Russell. Ill give you Big Ben, hes a baller. Ryan is completely, 100% a guy that needs good teammates to elevate his game rather than vice versa. Id say Wilson has done zero to earn a spot any lower than tied with Ben. Its even debateable that hes not better than Luck, considering hes done better and his stats are comparable.

Wilson would be Andrew Luck's towel boy. Please stop comparing the two.

 

I'll allow the Flacco/Rivers comparisons. I'd much rather have Flacco or Rivers. Especially in a few years, when Wilson loses a step. Wilson's best years are probably behind him. Young and fast. Gifted into a dream situation. No different than Trent Dilfer or Jim McMahon's situations.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Wilson would be Andrew Luck's towel boy. Please stop comparing the two.

 

I'll allow the Flacco/Rivers comparisons. I'd much rather have Flacco or Rivers. Especially in a few years, when Wilson loses a step. Wilson's best years are probably behind him. Young and fast. Gifted into a dream situation. No different than Trent Dilfer or Jim McMahon's situations.

Ill meet you halfway and say im happy to take a wait and see approach with the cap. But please dont use hyperbole and bust out Trent dilfer. Wilsons stats are pro bowl, top qb worthy and comparable to Lucks, please dont say that again, it tarnishes a decent argument. Dilfer never got top money and everyone knew he was just a bum managing the game. Wilson has league wide respect and probowl stats.

 

Btw, Luck would trade his career for Wilsons in a heartbeat. Wilson turns it over far less and doesnt even throw for that many less yards or tds. Its far closer than you think. Call me when Luck sniffs even a single SB with his offense tooled with incredible weapons. Just like Wilsons defense has weapons.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,918]

Wilson got his money and is responsible for the Seahawks imminent decline in the next few years.

 

They were as good as they were because he was being paid so little, which freed up money elsewhere. Welcome to having the same problems as the Saints. Wilson is the #2 paid QB and is probably around 10-12 in the league. Selfish and foolish.

Yup. And I read they aren't going to be able to sign their best defensive player who is also a FA because of this. Dumb on Wilson's part and and that fawkbrain Petey.

[NewbieJr 540]

 

 

Btw, Luck would trade his career for Wilsons in a heartbeat.

Luck would trade his defense and running game for Wilson's. Please stop pretending that Wilson's situation could possibly be more ideal.

[KSB2424 3,083]

You guys really disappoint me in this thread. I thought some of you had a little more sports/business aptitude.

 

The next contract a team makes is about the future. He may not be the #2 best QB RIGHT NOW, but that's not what you base contracts on. It's about need, its about forecasting the future. In three years, when half the current Top 10 QB's will be either out of the game or on their way out, if Russell keeps going on his projected path he will be a Top 5 QB and by then he will have like the 5th highest salary.

 

Would you rank Russell just ahead of Cam Newton, Colin Kaepernick and Ryan Tannelhill? I would, and that's just where he is slotted pay wise. Just above them in pay. And Andrew Luck will vault ahead of all of them when his time comes up. And in 5 years when the next guy, who is in college right now is time is up, he will vault up to like 28mil a year.

 

This is how it works.

[edjr 5,567]

I will say the NFL does contracts so much better than the other sports.

Forget the "non guaranteed money"

 

In the NFL they pay for what they think you can do, not for what you have done.

[cbfalcon 824]

He's been blessed. Top running back in the league. Best defense in the league. The stars have aligned for Wilson. I am impressed with his calmness. And his ability to run. But that running thing is fleeting. Ask RG3. Once his salary starts handcuffing the team, we'll see how good he is.

 

I also find it funny that Wilson gets a free pass for trying to force that ball into that tint window which cost Seattle the Super Bowl. Everyone blames Carroll for the play call. And rightfully so. But with the game on the line, Wilson can't make that throw. It was horrible. Carroll kept him from being the goat of that game.

 

List of reasons for the Seahawks recent success:

 

Defense

Running game

Russell Wilson

 

That doesn't mean Wilson is not, or can't be elite. It's just the way it has worked on that team. As a QB, I think his best days are ahead. As a team, they are at or near the end of the formula that got them in the Super Bowl twice.

 

Which is easiest to acquire? A top defense, a good running game, or a great QB?

Which is most responsible for wins? A top defense, a good running game, or a great QB?

 

Just for kicks, I'll rank the top 10 defenses, top 10 rushing offenses, and top 10 QB Ratings, and I'll give you their team's combined records:

 

Team Defense:

Seattle, Detroit , Denver ,Buff ,SF,Jets,KC, Balt , SD , Car

Combined Record: 91-58-1

 

Team Rushing:

Sea, Dal , Jets , SF , Hou , Cin , Car, Balt, Phi ,KC ,

Combined Record: = 90-68-2

 

QB Rating:

Romo ,Rodgers,Ben ,Manning ,Brady ,Brees ,Luck ,Palmer ,Fitz ,Wilson ,

Total = 109-51

 

So if we believe stats, QBs are more important that Rushing or Defense. And if we use logic, we know a QB is much harder to get. And once you do get one, they last a decade. Whereas a running game or defense are 2-4 year propositions.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Luck would trade his defense and running game for Wilson's. Please stop pretending that Wilson's situation could possibly be more ideal.

Yes its ideal. Even tho id argue having 0 wrs is not ideal, but ill give that to you. Flacco had a nice defense as well, how bout the steelers in their runs. Cant a defense be good without using that fact to scat all over the qb? Again, if Wilson wasnt putting up stats id agree with you, but he is. If they were winning games 17-14 like the buccs of old, id agree, but they arent. A qbs good play contributes to a defenses success. Letting them rest etc.

[NewbieJr 540]

 

 

Which is easiest to acquire? A top defense, a good running game, or a great QB?

Which is most responsible for wins? A top defense, a good running game, or a great QB?

 

Just for kicks, I'll rank the top 10 defenses, top 10 rushing offenses, and top 10 QB Ratings, and I'll give you their team's combined records:

 

Team Defense:

Seattle, Detroit , Denver ,Buff ,SF,Jets,KC, Balt , SD , Car

Combined Record: 91-58-1

 

Team Rushing:

Sea, Dal , Jets , SF , Hou , Cin , Car, Balt, Phi ,KC ,

Combined Record: = 90-68-2

 

QB Rating:

Romo ,Rodgers,Ben ,Manning ,Brady ,Brees ,Luck ,Palmer ,Fitz ,Wilson ,

Total = 109-51

 

So if we believe stats, QBs are more important that Rushing or Defense. And if we use logic, we know a QB is much harder to get. And once you do get one, they last a decade. Whereas a running game or defense are 2-4 year propositions.

That's all true,. But Wilson isn't a Brady, Manning, Luck type, once in a lifetime quarterback. He's more than a game manager, but he's not a carry-the-team-on-his-shoulder guy either. Once his salary weakens their defense, he's not going to be pulling out high scoring games. Especially when he loses a step. And it takes one or two awkward cuts or bad hits for that to happen.

[NewbieJr 540]

As a fan of a NFC team, I love the deal. I was hoping Seattle would do this. Brings them back to the pack.

[tanatastic 2,061]

That's all true,. But Wilson isn't a Brady, Manning, Luck type, once in a lifetime quarterback. He's more than a game manager, but he's not a carry-the-team-on-his-shoulder guy either. Once his salary weakens their defense, he's not going to be pulling out high scoring games. Especially when he loses a step. And it takes one or two awkward cuts or bad hits for that to happen.

This could very well be the case. Im eager to see if it happens. Until it does, ill call it like it is and enjoy Brady , mannin, Luck fantasy stats from a guy who apparently isnt like brady, manning or Luck.

[Vikings4ever 496]

 

 

Which is easiest to acquire? A top defense, a good running game, or a great QB?

Which is most responsible for wins? A top defense, a good running game, or a great QB?

 

So if we believe stats, QBs are more important that Rushing or Defense. And if we use logic, we know a QB is much harder to get. And once you do get one, they last a decade. Whereas a running game or defense are 2-4 year propositions.

A great QB, no question. The question is if Wilson is GREAT, or good enough to win with a strong team around him. A team that's much harder to assemble when you're paying your QB 20 million a year instead of 1 million.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Luck would trade his defense and running game for Wilson's. Please stop pretending that Wilson's situation could possibly be more ideal.

If you asked the remaining 30 GM's who they would want. I think all 30 pick Luck. There are maybe 5 teams, tops, where Wilson could duplicate what he is doing in Seattle.

 

That said, Wilson is perfect fit there and if he stays healthy (I don't think he will) he will earn that money.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

And Cam Chancellor is holding out

[tanatastic 2,061]

Brief tangent here. I love when people dismiss fantasy stats as if they have zero corrolation to the actual nfl. While it may appear this way, take a closer look. Go ahead and list or think of the top Players in the nfl at Rb, wr and QB. Now think of the top 10 FANTASY players at those positions. The lists are very similar with little variance. Fantasy stats are a barometer of nfl talent, otherwise we wouldnt pick those players. Who are the best wrs in the nfl? Gee oh I donno, Brown, Calvin, AJ, Demariyous, Odb, julio...Sound familiar? How bout qb? Oh lemme see, Rogers, Brady (if he wasnt suspended would be a top qb pick), Luck, manning Brees..Rb, Ap, Lynch, Charles, you get my point. Stop acting like fantasy stats are completely separate from nfl talent, they arent.

 

Yes you can name a couple singled out examples but by and large the lists are the same.

[NewbieJr 540]

Linebacker Bobby Wilson is the first to speak out about the signing. He's not a happy camper. Tweeted "Can't keep everyone" lol

[cbfalcon 824]

That's all true,. But Wilson isn't a Brady, Manning, Luck type, once in a lifetime quarterback. He's more than a game manager, but he's not a carry-the-team-on-his-shoulder guy either.

 

I get the thinking, and there is some validity to it based on what's been asked of him, his stats, etc.

 

But at the same time, it would simply be bad strategy to even have a prime Peyton Manning airing the ball out when up 20-3 late in the 3rd Quarter against a team that can't move the ball past midfield. It's not as though Wilson has been asked to carry Seattle and failed ever..............So what you are left with is what you think of the guy after watching him play. I think he is a franchise guy that you can build around for the next 10 years. And I see him progressing and becoming more dynamic going forward.

[tanatastic 2,061]

 

I get the thinking, and there is some validity to it based on what's been asked of him, his stats, etc.

 

But at the same time, it would simply be bad strategy to even have a prime Peyton Manning airing the ball out when up 20-3 late in the 3rd Quarter against a team that can't move the ball past midfield. It's not as though Wilson has been asked to carry Seattle and failed ever..............So what you are left with is what you think of the guy after watching him play. I think he is a franchise guy that you can build around for the next 10 years. And I see him progressing and becoming more dynamic going forward.

This is exacly how iv approached him. Im noyt some naive stat sheet pretend fan, I watch football. Im savvy, I know how to read between the lines and evaluate players, coaches, teams etc. When i watch Russell, I see a special QB. This is all entirely subjective tho (really its not, his stats are great) and one man may see a qb dif than another, wich is fine. LEts all just watch and see. Dont know how many superbowls he has to lead seattle to to earn some guys respect, but it sure isnt just 2, so keep on going Russ. If Luck ever even makes it to one, im sure you will be proud of him too.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,918]

Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, Luck. Those five can't even be argued. Put them on Seattle with Lynch in the backfield and that defense, and they might never lose a game.

 

Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Flacco.

 

I'd probably put Wilson next. Just ahead of Romo and Eli.

 

 

I'd rather have Romo and Eli in the fourth quarter with the game on the line.

[NewbieJr 540]

 

 

I'd rather have Romo and Eli in the fourth quarter with the game on the line.

Eli, yes. Romo? Never. Maybe a September game. Not many QBs that I wouldn't rather have than Romo in a clutch situation.

 

One thing I will say about Wilson is that he seems to remain composed in stressful situations (the Super Bowl pick in the end zone notwithstanding)

[tanatastic 2,061]

One thing I will say about Wilson is that he seems to remain composed in stressful situations (the Super Bowl pick in the end zone notwithstanding)

I rewatched that last play 100 times. On the hundredth time, Marshawn finally ran it and scored the winning TD! So that never happened. You just have to keep rewinding and click your heels each time to make it work.

 

Now if I could only do that for that stupid hail mary 2pnt conversion in the packer game id be set.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

That's all true,. But Wilson isn't a Brady, Manning, Luck type, once in a lifetime quarterback. He's more than a game manager, but he's not a carry-the-team-on-his-shoulder guy either. Once his salary weakens their defense, he's not going to be pulling out high scoring games. Especially when he loses a step. And it takes one or two awkward cuts or bad hits for that to happen.

Loses a step? Hes 26 years old. He will be in his early 30s when his contract is up.

[parrot 789]

You guys really disappoint me in this thread. I thought some of you had a little more sports/business aptitude.

 

The next contract a team makes is about the future. He may not be the #2 best QB RIGHT NOW, but that's not what you base contracts on. It's about need, its about forecasting the future. In three years, when half the current Top 10 QB's will be either out of the game or on their way out, if Russell keeps going on his projected path he will be a Top 5 QB and by then he will have like the 5th highest salary.

 

Would you rank Russell just ahead of Cam Newton, Colin Kaepernick and Ryan Tannelhill? I would, and that's just where he is slotted pay wise. Just above them in pay. And Andrew Luck will vault ahead of all of them when his time comes up. And in 5 years when the next guy, who is in college right now is time is up, he will vault up to like 28mil a year.

 

This is how it works.

This "projected path" is purely speculative at this point. His numbers haven't improved appreciably in three years in any passing stat, and that's from a fairly pedestrian starting point. In fact he just had career lows in TDs, Completion %, YPA, YPC, and QB Rating. And much of this carried into the playoffs as well.

[cbfalcon 824]

 

 

One thing I will say about Wilson is that he seems to remain composed in stressful situations (the Super Bowl pick in the end zone notwithstanding)

 

Have you ever really looked at that play? The playcall may have been bad, but I have no issue with his decision to throw it.

 

Check out this freeze frame showing the moment Wilson throws..

http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/01/freeze-frame-before-russell-wilson-interception-shows-separation-malcolm-butler-closed/grab-2015-02-01-22h01m34s214/#main

[NewbieJr 540]

Loses a step? Hes 26 years old. He will be in his early 30s when his contract is up.

see Randall Cunningham. see RG3.

Only take one hit to turn a runner into a pocket passer.

[NewbieJr 540]

 

Have you ever really looked at that play? The playcall may have been bad, but I have no issue with his decision to throw it.

 

Check out this freeze frame showing the moment Wilson throws..

http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/01/freeze-frame-before-russell-wilson-interception-shows-separation-malcolm-butler-closed/grab-2015-02-01-22h01m34s214/#main

I watched it at least 100 times. He threw an INT at the goal line. He needed to put more mustard on the ball. Or eat it and live to see another down. Every interception is a matter of the defender closing faster then the quarterback anticipated.

 

Like I said earlier, Wilson somehow gets a free pass for throwing an interception in that situation. Imagine if that were Romo or Cutler??

[parrot 789]

 

Have you ever really looked at that play? The playcall may have been bad, but I have no issue with his decision to throw it.

 

Check out this freeze frame showing the moment Wilson throws..

http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/01/freeze-frame-before-russell-wilson-interception-shows-separation-malcolm-butler-closed/grab-2015-02-01-22h01m34s214/#main

 

http://media.sportspressnw.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Russell-Wilson-Malcolm-Butler-590x393.jpg

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

see Randall Cunningham. see RG3.

Only take one hit to turn a runner into a pocket passer.

Hes not the same runner as RG3. Cunningham had a long successful career. Do you not watch Wilson play? He is an extremely cautious runner. Luck could get rolled up in the pocket and tear his acl. Then he can tear it again like bradford. Anything is possible with any qb, but Wilson doesnt have any more chance of tearing an acl than any other qb. Plus, players usually heal 100%

[tanatastic 2,061]

Imagine if that were Romo or Cutler??

They would be commended and applauded for even making it to a SB wich is a very hard thing to do.

[Reality 2,710]

 

Have you ever really looked at that play? The playcall may have been bad, but I have no issue with his decision to throw it.

 

Check out this freeze frame showing the moment Wilson throws..

http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/01/freeze-frame-before-russell-wilson-interception-shows-separation-malcolm-butler-closed/grab-2015-02-01-22h01m34s214/#main

 

You aren't helping Wilson here..