Russell Wilson's new deal - wow.

[parrot 789]

I think that's sort of missing the point. Russell isn't an elite QB but he is the perfect fit or what the Seahawks do. So he wouldn't be worth $22m to any team except Seattle.

 

You can say he's not that good, but what happens if Wilson leaves? The Seahawks are far more likely to spend the next 5-10 years trying to find another good QB than they are to immediately replace him.

 

There are like 10-12 good QBs in the world and if you have one you pay him what you need to pay him. Wilson's contract will look like a bargain in 5 years.

 

But if he's only worth that much to Seattle, did Seattle need to pay him that much?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

 

But if he's only worth that much to Seattle, did Seattle need to pay him that much?

Yes because someone else would have payed him more.

[cbfalcon 824]

Wilson reminds me of Brady the first couple years of his career.

 

The guy has all the intangibles. This isn't fantasy football we are talking about, its real football.

 

I don't know if they "over-spent" or not. But he won't be the second highest paid QB for long. Others the next two years will surpass those contracts. That's how it works.

 

Exactly what I was about to post. Right now, Wilson isn't in the Rodgers, Luck (yes, I already have him as the 2nd best QB), Brady, group. These are guys that basically are so good that you are a automatically a contender if you have them.

 

But I compare Wilson to a young Brady. He is a game manager right now that is cool under pressure and does a ton to win ballgames. Yes, he has had a stacked team. But he has every intangible. Good enough physically, cool under pressure, workaholic, winner mentality. You can't let a guy like that leave. So in the end, you have to pay whatever it takes to keep him.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Yes because someone else would have payed him more.

You think another team would value Wilson at $22m a year, for their system? Never say never, but I'd be hard pressed to believe it.

 

Good piece on Wilson: http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/27/5-reasons-why-the-seahawks-shouldn-t-overpay-for-russell-wilson/21214668/

[TimmySmith 2,782]

And so it begins. One hit and he is done.

[parrot 789]

Yes because someone else would have payed him more.

 

Who? And it has to be a team he would actually leave to play for. As others have said, Seattle is the PERFECT setup for him. I can understand why Seattle didn't want to get into any brinksmanship, but I still say they overspent for a guy who has really only been asked not to lose games for his team to this point.

[cbfalcon 824]

 

Who? And it has to be a team he would actually leave to play for. As others have said, Seattle is the PERFECT setup for him. I can understand why Seattle didn't want to get into any brinksmanship, but I still say they overspent for a guy who has really only been asked not to lose games for his team to this point.

 

Did you know that Wilson will hit the number to qualify for career passer rating leaders this season. And when he does, he will be behind Aaron Rodgers for 2nd all time?

 

So make a guy a Free Agent at 27 years old, with 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 1 Super Bowl win, a 36-12 record (plus this year), and the 2nd highest Passer Rating in history, and see if anyone gives him a giant contract offer.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

You think another team would value Wilson at $22m a year, for their system? Never say never, but I'd be hard pressed to believe it.

 

Good piece on Wilson: http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/27/5-reasons-why-the-seahawks-shouldn-t-overpay-for-russell-wilson/21214668/

using an aol sports article to prove your side. The last point said a player shouldnt be judged by one play, and then judged him based on that one play. Manning has had plenty of moments like that in the playoffs and he was never penalized out of the elite tier for it.

 

His passing isnt where Rodgers or Brady are at, yet at least. He may never quite get that good, but his smart running is a huge part of his game. Hes a running qb, but he takes so few big hits. His pocket awareness is uncanny and he escapes so well.

 

What happened to Luck in the playoff game against the Pats? He wet the bed. No one wants to talk about that though. Lets just cherry pick the stats the support extremely flawed claims.

 

Andrew Luck vs NE

 

12/23 136 yards 0 td 2 int

 

Russel Wilson vs NE

 

12/21 247 yards 2 td 1 int

 

How can this be??? Wilson is just a game manager and Andrew Luck is god???!!!

[Strike 3,979]

 

Exactly what I was about to post. Right now, Wilson isn't in the Rodgers, Luck (yes, I already have him as the 2nd best QB), Brady, group. These are guys that basically are so good that you are a automatically a contender if you have them.

 

But I compare Wilson to a young Brady. He is a game manager right now that is cool under pressure and does a ton to win ballgames. Yes, he has had a stacked team. But he has every intangible. Good enough physically, cool under pressure, workaholic, winner mentality. You can't let a guy like that leave. So in the end, you have to pay whatever it takes to keep him.

 

I think Russell Wilson is a very good QB. I have doubts that he will be nearly as successful once Beast mode is gone. He's short for an elite QB and now that Seattle has to pay guys the quality of their team is going to decrease. When their defense isn't as dominant as it currently is, and their running game isn't as good as it is now, will he be able to be a dominant QB like a Brady/Rodgers/Manning? I have serious doubts but only time will tell. Not sure Seattle had much choice here though. He certainly deserves to get paid, if only for leading them to two SB's. They didn't pay the ridiculous price he was asking, and it's only a four year deal. Seems fair all around to me.

[Vikings4ever 496]

I'll +1 that I don't think Wilson is elite, but the Seahawks couldn't afford to let him walk.

 

In the coming years, we'll see if actually is elite, or just "good enough" to win with a strong team around him.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Couple things I think people are either missing or wrong (well at least I disagree with).

 

1. It seems some of you think Russell Wilson is a "system" QB. That is not so. I watched him play at NC State. He was fantastic there, made all the throws, ran when he needed to (not just to). I watched him at Wisconsin in a different offense. He won, made all the throws, did everything he needed. Then he goes pro, and keeps winning, keeps making plays, in a different offense. The dude is good. He's far from a "system" QB. He could win in most any system.

 

2. I know that seems like a lot of money, and it is.....but in the scheme of what QB's are being paid and will be paid. It's really not. Look at recent contracts like Ryan Tannelhill and Cam Newton. The NFL is making money hand over fist, the cap numbers are going up, this is what the top dozen or so QB's are being paid. Especially the young studs coming off their first rookie contract that paid them little.

 

Par for the course is what I'm saying. Nothing to see here.

[Cruzer 1,992]

using an aol sports article to prove your side.

I'm not trying to prove any side - I just posted a link that makes some pretty good points. The funny part, if there is one, if the defensiveness you seem to have over it. For some reason you really have your panties in a wad over it - it's rather amusing... It's possible, bcoz of of the defenses he's had and Beast mode, that Wilson has never gotten the credit he deserves bcoz he's never actually been asked to go out and win games and a SB as traditional Qb.Then again, maybe that's been a blessing for him - it's certainly made him a rich man.

 

As the little fish in the sea know, never wonder away from the coral.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I'm not trying to prove any side - I just posted a link that makes some pretty good points. The funny part, if there is one, if the defensiveness you seem to have over it. For some reason you really have your panties in a wad over it - it's rather amusing... It's possible, bcoz of of the defenses he's had and Beast mode, that Wilson has never gotten the credit he deserves bcoz he's never actually been asked to go out and win games and a SB as traditional Qb.Then again, maybe that's been a blessing for him - it's certainly made him a rich man.

 

As the little fish in the sea know, never wonder away from the coral.

Ohh i see. I make some good points that you can no longer counter, so you bust out the panties in a wad. I wasnt aware that we werent allowed to make an argument to counter other view points without being called names. My bad.

 

You called him a game manager and said he wasnt elite. I was countering that. Please put away the panties in a wad cliche. Its over played.

 

My point stands. If Luck is so great and Wilson is a game manager, what about their playoff games against the same team?

 

How many teams win a SB with a bad defense? Not many. Its not like Rodgers has been winning SBs left and right or Manning or Brees. 3 total between them combined.

[parrot 789]

 

Did you know that Wilson will hit the number to qualify for career passer rating leaders this season. And when he does, he will be behind Aaron Rodgers for 2nd all time?

 

So make a guy a Free Agent at 27 years old, with 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 1 Super Bowl win, a 36-12 record (plus this year), and the 2nd highest Passer Rating in history, and see if anyone gives him a giant contract offer.

 

His high passer rating is largely a product of the system he plays in, IMO. Does it take two hands to count his 300 yard games yet? It's a lot easier to have a high passer rating when you have a great running game, an all-time defense, and are rarely called upon to have to throw the ball into potential trouble.

[GobbleDog 816]

In an age where throwing 4,000 yards in the regular season is considered average, and 5,000 yards is amazing, the "elite" Russel Wilson reached a career high last year with............. 3,475 yards, along with a whopping 20 TD passes.

 

What a stud!

[Cruzer 1,992]

Ohh i see. I make some good points that you can no longer counter, so you bust out the panties in a wad. I wasnt aware that we werent allowed to make an argument to counter other view points without being called names. My bad.

 

You called him a game manager and said he wasnt elite. I was countering that. Please put away the panties in a wad cliche. Its over played.

 

My point stands. If Luck is so great and Wilson is a game manager, what about their playoff games against the same team?

I've got room for all kinds of counter - makes good debate... He's not elite, imo - if that bothers you, sorry.

 

Wilson and Luck are both FA - both will sign for $10m a year... How many teams line up to sign Wilson over Luck?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

 

Who? And it has to be a team he would actually leave to play for. As others have said, Seattle is the PERFECT setup for him. I can understand why Seattle didn't want to get into any brinksmanship, but I still say they overspent for a guy who has really only been asked not to lose games for his team to this point.

Why did seattle pay him that much if its so certain no other team would? Idk which teams would, but they would. If hes truly not worth the money he got on the open market they would have just waited on the contract.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Couple things I think people are either missing or wrong (well at least I disagree with).

 

1. It seems some of you think Russell Wilson is a "system" QB. That is not so. I watched him play at NC State. He was fantastic there, made all the throws, ran when he needed to (not just to). I watched him at Wisconsin in a different offense. He won, made all the throws, did everything he needed. Then he goes pro, and keeps winning, keeps making plays, in a different offense. The dude is good. He's far from a "system" QB. He could win in most any system.

 

Agree that he is NOT a system QB, disagree that he could win in most any system. He is allowed to do the things he does best in Seattle and most of his great plays are built around his mobility. Roll right, throw right his been his best weapon. Once the mobility goes, he is toast.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I've got room for all kinds of counter - makes good debate... He's not elite, imo - if that bothers you, sorry.

 

Wilson and Luck are both FA - both will sign for $10m a year... How many teams line up to sign Wilson over Luck?

I am not saying Wilson is better. I am saying Luck is universally in everyones elite qb group, yet he hasnt done much besides put up 1 year of great regular season stats. Wilson played much better against the same defense. If Luck was so great shouldnt he have done better then absolutely wetting the bed?

[KSB2424 3,083]

Agree that he is NOT a system QB, disagree that he could win in most any system. He is allowed to do the things he does best in Seattle and most of his great plays are built around his mobility. Roll right, throw right his been his best weapon. Once the mobility goes, he is toast.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree. He has the IQ and the arm to be a fantastic pocket passer even if he has the mobility of Peyton Manning.

 

I think to many people look at this through stats and a fantasy football prism. Russell Wilson is the new Troy Aikman. Except he can run a bit if needed. And unlike other "running QB's" he doesn't do it when he doesn't have too and he gets down as good as anyone. As a baseball player he has the best QB slide of anyone, even Rodgers.

[Cruzer 1,992]

 

His high passer rating is largely a product of the system he plays in, IMO. Does it take two hands to count his 300 yard games yet? It's a lot easier to have a high passer rating when you have a great running game, an all-time defense, and are rarely called upon to have to throw the ball into potential trouble.

To me passer rating is a lot like Shooting % in the NBA. DeAndre Jordan led the entire NBA in shooting % last year - is he really the best shooter in the game? No, of course not.

 

To me, again, an elite Qb will have elite style stats and passer ratings no matter where they go or what team they play for. Manning is a perfect example of this going from Indy to Denver... Does anyone really believe Wilson would produce these kind of stats in say, Washington? Maybe, but I'd not be willing to pay $22m a year to find out.

[Cruzer 1,992]

I am not saying Wilson is better. I am saying Luck is universally in everyones elite qb group, yet he hasnt done much besides put up 1 year of great regular season stats. Wilson played much better against the same defense. If Luck was so great shouldnt he have done better then absolutely wetting the bed?

You're seriously asking this question? The reason is bcoz Luck didn't have one of the greatest defenses of all time, nor did he have a Beast Mode to hand the ball off to.

 

Last year the Hawks led the league in defense - gave up 267 yards and 16 pts. per game. The Colts 342 yards and 23 pts. per game... Last year the Hawks' led the league in rushing - 173 yards per game, the Colts 100 per game.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

I think he Surprises this year though, all reports say he looks great. We shall see.

Everyone looks great in July

[parrot 789]

I am not saying Wilson is better. I am saying Luck is universally in everyones elite qb group, yet he hasnt done much besides put up 1 year of great regular season stats. Wilson played much better against the same defense. If Luck was so great shouldnt he have done better then absolutely wetting the bed?

 

Without googling, who was Luck's running back that day? I'll give you a hint it wasn't Marshawn Lynch.

 

The funny part is, even Seattle fans don't really think that Wilson is genuinely elite. If they did they wouldn't still be pissed that Carroll/Bevell put the SuperBowl in his hands instead of just handing it off to Lynch.

[edjr 5,567]

Everyone looks great in July

 

How about McFadden?

[edjr 5,567]

 

Without googling, who was Luck's running back that day? I'll give you a hint it wasn't Marshawn Lynch.

 

The funny part is, even Seattle fans don't really think that Wilson is genuinely elite. If they did they wouldn't still be pissed that Carroll/Bevell put the SuperBowl in his hands instead of just handing it off to Lynch.

 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

In an age where throwing 4,000 yards in the regular season is considered average, and 5,000 yards is amazing, the "elite" Russel Wilson reached a career high last year with............. 3,475 yards, along with a whopping 20 TD passes.

 

What a stud!

Finally. Someone who agrees that regular season stats arent the only measuring stick.

 

Career post season qb rating

 

Peyton Manning 88.5

Tom Brady 89.0

Andrew Luck 70.8

Aaron Rodgers 101.0

Russel Wilson 97.8

 

Russel Wilson is 3 points behind Rodgers for the top spot in this group, and thats in just his first 3 years. Ya know who is playing like a player who has only been in the league for 3 years come playoff time? Andrew Luck, who is universally elite in everyones book. 'Nough said.

 

Side note, is this energy driven conversation given anyone else a stiffy?

[parrot 789]

Why did seattle pay him that much if its so certain no other team would? Idk which teams would, but they would. If hes truly not worth the money he got on the open market they would have just waited on the contract.

 

Who said anything about Seattle being "certain" about anything? In fact I said I can understand them being nervous about engaging in "brinksmanship" where Wilson is concerned.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

You're seriously asking this question? The reason is bcoz Luck didn't have one of the greatest defenses of all time, nor did he have a Beast Mode to hand the ball off to.

 

Last year the Hawks led the league in defense - gave up 267 yards and 16 pts. per game. The Colts 342 yards and 23 pts. per game... Last year the Hawks' led the league in rushing - 173 yards per game, the Colts 100 per game.

Oh come on. Who is Bradys running back most seasons? No one. Now because seattles defense is better it makes Wilson better. Because Luck has a bad defense and more opportunity to show off his greatness it makes him bad in the playoffs? But not in the regular season?

 

I remember when Brady was considered a product of the system. Plenty of excuses flying around then as to why his teams were doing so well.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

 

Who said anything about Seattle being "certain" about anything? In fact I said I can understand them being nervous about engaging in "brinksmanship" where Wilson is concerned.

You asked me who would be willing to pay that much or more for Wilson. That implies to me you dont believe there is much interest in signing him to that big a contract.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Finally. Someone who agrees that regular season stats arent the only measuring stick.

 

Career post season qb rating

 

Peyton Manning 88.5

Tom Brady 89.0

Andrew Luck 70.8

Aaron Rodgers 101.0

Russel Wilson 97.8

 

And in that span, Wilson has averaged 15 completions per game.

 

I'm sorry, but if that's not a post season bus driver, I don't know what is.

[parrot 789]

Finally. Someone who agrees that regular season stats arent the only measuring stick.

 

Career post season qb rating

 

Peyton Manning 88.5

Tom Brady 89.0

Andrew Luck 70.8

Aaron Rodgers 101.0

Russel Wilson 97.8

 

Russel Wilson is 3 points behind Rodgers for the top spot in this group, and thats in just his first 3 years. Ya know who is playing like a player who has only been in the league for 3 years come playoff time? Andrew Luck, who is universally elite in everyones book. 'Nough said.

 

Side note, is this energy driven conversation given anyone else a stiffy?

 

Speaking of playoffs...In Wilson's playoff history, the defense has given up more than 22 points twice. They lost both times. The won win he has where the other team scored more than 17 was the sub 50% passing, 4 pick, Green Bay game where his defense somehow managed to keep him in the game despite him doing everything he possibly could to try and give it away.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

And in that span, Wilson has averaged 15 completions per game.

 

I'm sorry, but if that's not a post season bus driver, I don't know what is.

Ahh so now his elite qb rating cant be counted because he doesnt chuck the ball around like an idiot, even though his rating qualifies on the all time rating list. Excuses.

[Strike 3,979]

Ahh so now his elite qb rating cant be counted because he doesnt chuck the ball around like an idiot, even though his rating qualifies on the all time rating list. Excuses.

 

I hope you're fishing.

 

[Cruzer 1,992]

Oh come on. Who is Bradys running back most seasons? No one. Now because seattles defense is better it makes Wilson better. Because Luck has a bad defense and more opportunity to show off his greatness it makes him bad in the playoffs? But not in the regular season?

 

I remember when Brady was considered a product of the system. Plenty of excuses flying around then as to why his teams were doing so well.

You are kind of making my point for me.. Brady has basically played with regular guys, regular guys he made seem spectacular. It's part of the greatness of him, he makes those around him better... Part of the article you :lol:'d at pointed this out - Wilson doesn't really make anyone around him better.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

 

Speaking of playoffs...In Wilson's playoff history, the defense has given up more than 22 points twice. They lost both times. The won win he has where the other team scored more than 17 was the sub 50% passing, 4 pick, Green Bay game where his defense somehow managed to keep him in the game despite him doing everything he possibly could to try and give it away.

He had a horrid game against Green Bay, and his rating in his brief playoff history is still 97.8. Thats pretty damn good. Thanks for making my point even stronger.

[tanatastic 2,061]

People who dont think Wilson is an Elite qb or just a system guy or just piggybacking off of Marshawn and the legion must not be watching too much Football. Many times iv been watching with friends and we will just look at eachother after a play and both say "Wow, Russell is the real deal.". If you actually watch the games theres no doubt the kid is something special. His wrs are completely non descripts nobodies who wouldnt even crack the packers roster. Te? What te? Jimmy is his first one. The throws hes made, the plays, the instincts, the reads. If you actually watch the games there is no doubt he is an elite qb. He deserves every penny of the contract.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Ahh so now his elite qb rating cant be counted because he doesnt chuck the ball around like an idiot, even though his rating qualifies on the all time rating list. Excuses.

No - it means we don't have a definitive way of know whether or not Wilson was truly elite, or the benefactor of having the #1 ranked defense and running game... Denial.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

You are kind of making my point for me.. Brady has basically played with regular guys, regular guys he made seem spectacular. It's part of the greatness of him, he makes those around him better... Part of the article you :lol:'d at pointed this out - Wilson doesn't really make anyone around him better.

Wilson played with Regular guys too besides Lynch. His receiving corps is crap. Worse than anyone Brady has ever worked with. Deon Branch was a better receiver than anyone on Seattle. Edelman is also better than anyone on Seattle.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Wilson played with Regular guys too besides Lynch. His receiving corps is crap. Worse than anyone Brady has ever worked with. Deon Branch was a better receiver than anyone on Seattle. Edelman is also better than anyone on Seattle.

But Wilson wasn't the one making them better or win - the #1 ranked defense and the #1 ranked running games were.