Now that the transcripts have been released for deflategate.....

[Sho Nuff 720]

I can add things to discussion on this board every now and then. Not a complete waste of space

Must be something about being a fan of a team with Eli as the qb.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

Must be something about being a fan of a team with Eli as the qb.

That same Eli that is 2-0 at Lambeau in the playoffs?

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

I may disagree with you, but at least there is substance to your posts...

 

Zzzzzzzzz

[cbfalcon 825]

This article fits my prediction: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-goodell-and-tom-brady-ignore-each-other--roll-dice-with-deflate-gate-judge-180816187.html

 

 

The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms.

 

As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions.

 

It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious......

That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line.

 

It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case.

 

But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter.

 

The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady.

 

The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance.

 

[NewbieJr 541]

Well, I took Brady in my fantasy draft last night. In a competitive (7 of 10 owners are sharks) league we founded in 1992.

 

I hope he's as angry as I've heard and he comes out like 2007 Brady.

[edjr 6,586]

Well, I took Brady in my fantasy draft last night. In a competitive (7 of 10 owners are sharks) league we founded in 1992.

 

I hope he's as angry as I've heard and he comes out like 2007 Brady.

 

Missed him by 1 pick as my backup, took Bradford instead

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Well, I took Brady in my fantasy draft last night. In a competitive (7 of 10 owners are sharks) league we founded in 1992.

 

I hope he's as angry as I've heard and he comes out like 2007 Brady.

Does he have Wes Welker? Randy Moss? Is he going to be eight years younger?

 

Don't hold your breath

[NewbieJr 541]

Does he have Wes Welker? Randy Moss? Is he going to be eight years younger?

 

Don't hold your breath

He put up good numbers during the second half of 2014. He's my backup. So if he ends up being good, it'll be a bonus.

[edjr 6,586]

Newbs. how do you feel about Jay Feely and the 2009 incident?

 

K balls were focked with.

 

Ball boy was suspended and Feely wasn't even given a fine.

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13563723/jay-feely-tells-us-district-court-judge-richard-m-berman-new-york-jets-2009-k-ball-incident

[TD Ryan2 316]

Newbs. how do you feel about Jay Feely and the 2009 incident?

 

K balls were focked with.

 

Ball boy was suspended and Feely wasn't even given a fine.

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13563723/jay-feely-tells-us-district-court-judge-richard-m-berman-new-york-jets-2009-k-ball-incident

 

if the Jets were in the AFC Championship every other year for a decade, had won 4 SuperBowls, had an undefeated regular season AND made McNabb throw up on herself... it would be a problem. But they haven't, so it's not.

[NewbieJr 541]

Newbs. how do you feel about Jay Feely and the 2009 incident?

 

K balls were focked with.

 

Ball boy was suspended and Feely wasn't even given a fine.

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13563723/jay-feely-tells-us-district-court-judge-richard-m-berman-new-york-jets-2009-k-ball-incident

First I'm hearing of it. I'm against it.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

if the Jets were in the AFC Championship every other year for a decade, had won 4 SuperBowls, had an undefeated regular season AND made McNabb throw up on herself... it would be a problem. But they haven't, so it's not.

I like the part about undefeated regular season. Where does that trophy go in the case?

[edjr 6,586]

First I'm hearing of it. I'm against it.

 

Judge Berman called him (Feely) in to testify on Monday.

 

Puts things a little more in perspective now over what a hatchet job this whole thing has been.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Newbs. how do you feel about Jay Feely and the 2009 incident?

 

K balls were focked with.

 

Ball boy was suspended and Feely wasn't even given a fine.

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13563723/jay-feely-tells-us-district-court-judge-richard-m-berman-new-york-jets-2009-k-ball-incident

 

Sort of like the blatant tampering charge against the Jets over Revis this season. Former Jet employee Goodell gives Woody no punishment whatsoever. The NFL front office is a joke.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

Judge Berman called him (Feely) in to testify on Monday.

 

Puts things a little more in perspective now over what a hatchet job this whole thing has been.

I'm glad you guys have switched focus back to the penalty being too severe, When you were drifting towards the 'Omg, Brady is innocent' stuff, you were all sounding a bit retarded.

In the Feely incident, did the Jets admit right away that they tampered with the ball? There is obviously similarities in the two cases. But remember, how the Pats handled it right from the start seems to be what angered the league the most. I'm curious as to how the Jets handled it.

[edjr 6,586]

I'm glad you guys have switched focus back to the penalty being too severe, When you were drifting towards the 'Omg, Brady is innocent' stuff, you were all sounding a bit retarded.

In the Feely incident, did the Jets admit right away that they tampered with the ball? There is obviously similarities in the two cases. But remember, how the Pats handled it right from the start seems to be what angered the league the most. I'm curious as to how the Jets handled it.

 

I figured that would be your retort and I don't know.

 

Please remember, this happened the day after the AFC championship game and 2 weeks before the Super Bowl, no one in their right mind (if guilty) would have said, YUP! I did it. Never, ever.

 

I've never said Brady was completely innocent. Most coherent Pats fans agree with that statement. The NFL still never has had any proof whatsoever to say otherwise.

[ToadSprocket 12]

I haven't really kept up on the wrangling and verbiage and yada yada yada since this took place.

But I will say this: I had a beautiful wife, 2 kids, a 15 year mortgage paid down to 2 years and a great job.

Then I caught my wife having sex with another man. After great consternation I decided for the best of everyone and not just myself, I'd overlook it / get past it. Especially since my wife acted 100% remorseful and swore to NEVER EVER do it again. Plus I wondered if maybe I was causing a problem somehow.

2 years later mortgage is paid off but caught my wife cheating again. Now, that's twice. How could I ever trust her again. She was caught redhanded cheating twice. She swears that was the only 2 times she ever cheated. 2 times caught is usually 100 times not caught. Were the great years together really great or was she cheating then?

 

That's how I feel about the Patriots. I'm a Redskins / Ravens fan. Have no dog in the fight except I believe the Patriots have been caught cheating twice. Just like my wife. And personally I can't EVER trust either one of them EVER AGAIN.

[edjr 6,586]

I haven't really kept up on the wrangling and verbiage and yada yada yada since this took place.

But I will say this: I had a beautiful wife, 2 kids, a 15 year mortgage paid down to 2 years and a great job.

Then I caught my wife having sex with another man. After great consternation I decided for the best of everyone and not just myself, I'd overlook it / get past it. Especially since my wife acted 100% remorseful and swore to NEVER EVER do it again. Plus I wondered if maybe I was causing a problem somehow.

2 years later mortgage is paid off but caught my wife cheating again. Now, that's twice. How could I ever trust her again. She was caught redhanded cheating twice. She swears that was the only 2 times she ever cheated. 2 times caught is usually 100 times not caught. Were the great years together really great or was she cheating then?

 

That's how I feel about the Patriots. I'm a Redskins / Ravens fan. Have no dog in the fight except I believe the Patriots have been caught cheating twice. Just like my wife. And personally I can't EVER trust either one of them EVER AGAIN.

 

Thank you for taking her back, b1tch wanted to move in with me.. WTF?

[ToadSprocket 12]

She ain't coming back here.

 

Are you taking the Patriots back?

[cbfalcon 825]

I'm glad you guys have switched focus back to the penalty being too severe, When you were drifting towards the 'Omg, Brady is innocent' stuff, you were all sounding a bit retarded.

In the Feely incident, did the Jets admit right away that they tampered with the ball? There is obviously similarities in the two cases. But remember, how the Pats handled it right from the start seems to be what angered the league the most. I'm curious as to how the Jets handled it.

 

When the Chargers refused to hand over evidence that they were cheating in 2012, the league punished them with a $20k fine.

 

"NFL game officials are charged with protecting the integrity and competitive fairness of the games and club staff members, like players and coaches, have a clear obligation to cooperate in this effort and comply with the direction of game officials. As a result of the failure of club staff to follow the directive of a game official to immediately surrender the towels when directed to do so, and to attempt to conceal the towels, the Chargers have been fined $20,000."

 

So now you are saying that these penalties are about the refusal to cooperate, yet the Chargers only got a $20k fine for refusing to cooperate.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

I figured that would be your retort

What did you call me?

[NewbieJr 541]

 

When the Chargers refused to hand over evidence that they were cheating in 2012, the league punished them with a $20k fine.

 

"NFL game officials are charged with protecting the integrity and competitive fairness of the games and club staff members, like players and coaches, have a clear obligation to cooperate in this effort and comply with the direction of game officials. As a result of the failure of club staff to follow the directive of a game official to immediately surrender the towels when directed to do so, and to attempt to conceal the towels, the Chargers have been fined $20,000."

 

So now you are saying that these penalties are about the refusal to cooperate, yet the Chargers only got a $20k fine for refusing to cooperate.

The severity of the Patriot's penalties are the fact that they had an elaborate plan AFTER the officials inspected the balls, Brady's refusal to cooperate, and the fact that this is not their first time being caught cheating. If your child gets caught underage drinking at a party and you ground him the following weekend, do you keep the penalty the same once you realize it wasn't really much of a deterrent?

[edjr 6,586]

She ain't coming back here.

 

Are you taking the Patriots back?

 

Tom Brady can cheat on me any times he wishes. so long as he comes over a couple times a year, I'm good.

[Djgb13 2,339]

The severity of the Patriot's penalties are the fact that they had an elaborate plan AFTER the officials inspected the balls, Brady's refusal to cooperate, and the fact that this is not their first time being caught cheating. If your child gets caught underage drinking at a party and you ground him the following weekend, do you keep the penalty the same once you realize it wasn't really much of a deterrent?

The different in penalties though is astronomical. The patriots didn't even refuse to cooperate either. They pretty much just rolled over and gave in to ridiculous amounts of penalties as an offering so the league would just give Brady a slap on the wrist. I think we can all agree with the type of cheating (I'll use that even though I still don't see any clear evidence) that occurred there's no way in hell that it should have been that extreme of punishment. Even with spygate that happened a good while ago the penalties shouldn't have been what they were. Maybe a million dollar fine. But Goodell gave the one of the worst penalties in the history of the league. Sorry but there is no way that should be allowed to occur

[cbfalcon 825]

The severity of the Patriot's penalties are the fact that they had an elaborate plan AFTER the officials inspected the balls, Brady's refusal to cooperate, and the fact that this is not their first time being caught cheating. If your child gets caught underage drinking at a party and you ground him the following weekend, do you keep the penalty the same once you realize it wasn't really much of a deterrent?

 

Huh?

 

So when the Feely story is posted, it's not about the crime, but instead about the lack of cooperation.

When a story showing how the league punishes a lack of cooperation is posted, you say it's about an "elaborate plan AFTER" the fact.

 

So would you have been ok with a $20k fine had the Pats refused to give the balls to the league, as that wasn't "AFTER the officials inspected the balls".

And I guess I should ask what "elaborate plan"? Maybe I'm some sort of super genius, but I'm not seeing anything too elaborate or complex.

[NewbieJr 541]

The different in penalties though is astronomical. The patriots didn't even refuse to cooperate either. They pretty much just rolled over and gave in to ridiculous amounts of penalties as an offering so the league would just give Brady a slap on the wrist. I think we can all agree with the type of cheating (I'll use that even though I still don't see any clear evidence) that occurred there's no way in hell that it should have been that extreme of punishment. Even with spygate that happened a good while ago the penalties shouldn't have been what they were. Maybe a million dollar fine. But Goodell gave the one of the worst penalties in the history of the league. Sorry but there is no way that should be allowed to occur

I'm not going to lie, it was more severe than I thought it would be.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Will y'all wake me up when the judge comes to some ruling?

 

I've been over this for weeks. I think everyone knows that A. Brady and the equipment guys were deflating the balls. Maybe just a little....but they were and so do probably other teams, but well, they got caught. And B. Goodell and the NFL is a clown show with how they run these things.

 

Lets just all move on at this point since we all know A and B above. TIA

[NewbieJr 541]

 

Huh?

 

So when the Feely story is posted, it's not about the crime, but instead about the lack of cooperation.

When a story showing how the league punishes a lack of cooperation is posted, you say it's about an "elaborate plan AFTER" the fact.

 

So would you have been ok with a $20k fine had the Pats refused to give the balls to the league, as that wasn't "AFTER the officials inspected the balls".

And I guess I should ask what "elaborate plan"? Maybe I'm some sort of super genius, but I'm not seeing anything too elaborate or complex.

I already discussed the Feely situation. Today is the first I heard of it and I asked how the Jets handled it when it was discovered and brought up to them. Did they deny it? Did they dismiss it as a scientific phenomenon? Did they say a ball boy did it and Feely knew nothing of it? Was this the second time under the same Jets regime that they were caught cheating?

 

If you want to keep bringing in other stories, make sure you know the details. Because those details have a lot to do with how punishments are given out.

[NewbieJr 541]

Will y'all wake me up when the judge comes to some ruling?

 

I've been over this for weeks. I think everyone knows that A. Brady and the equipment guys were deflating the balls. Maybe just a little....but they were and so do probably other teams, but well, they got caught. And B. Goodell and the NFL is a clown show with how they run these things.

 

Lets just all move on at this point since we all know A and B above. TIA

This is a post that I could have written. I just want the suspension reduced to two games so Brady plays against the Cowboys.

[Djgb13 2,339]

I'm not going to lie, it was more severe than I thought it would be.

I'm not gonna confirm or deny that I believe Brady did it. I don't see enough evidence to convince me he did it. But that's a matter of opinion now. However even if it's all true I think everyone can agree this got turned into a much bigger deal than it should have been and they were punished a lot worse than almost anything I've ever seen. Even if Brady destroyed his phone with evidence on there he himself never cheated before so he's not a repeat offender. Yet be gets something worse than Others who do worse things. Penalties and th story have been way overblown we can all agree

[Mike Honcho 5,270]

Newbs. how do you feel about Jay Feely and the 2009 incident?

 

K balls were focked with.

 

Ball boy was suspended and Feely wasn't even given a fine.

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13563723/jay-feely-tells-us-district-court-judge-richard-m-berman-new-york-jets-2009-k-ball-incident

 

 

That year, the NFL suspended a member of the New York Jets equipment staff after he "attempted to use unapproved equipment to prep the K balls prior to" a Jets game against the New England Patriots.

 

In the 2009 case, according to Feely, a Jets equipment manager put an extra pad on the brush he was using to prepare the kicking balls before the game. The pad was meant to protect his fingers. Feely said equipment managers were given 20 minutes before the game to prepare the kicking balls, and both teams did so in the same room and were supervised by an NFL official.

 

Yeah, very similar situations.

[NewbieJr 541]

I'm not gonna confirm or deny that I believe Brady did it. I don't see enough evidence to convince me he did it. But that's a matter of opinion now. However even if it's all true I think everyone can agree this got turned into a much bigger deal than it should have been and they were punished a lot worse than almost anything I've ever seen. Even if Brady destroyed his phone with evidence on there he himself never cheated before so he's not a repeat offender. Yet be gets something worse than Others who do worse things. Penalties and th story have been way overblown we can all agree

Like I said, it was more than I thought it would be. But at the same time, you have a very stubborn commissioner who is trying to clean up the league, dealing with a very smug and pompous organization that didn't cooperate. Plus, it was the second time they were caught cheating. Yes, I think (know) it was personal. You have a guy who wants to be king and an organization who doesn't think anyone can tell them what they can and can't do.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

 

 

Yeah, very similar situations.

No wonder I never knew of the incident. Holy fock. This isn't apples top oranges, this is apples to raisons.

[edjr 6,586]

No wonder I never knew of the incident. Holy fock. This isn't apples top oranges, this is apples to raisons.

 

That is why the judge called him in to testify

 

because it's irrelevant

[NewbieJr 541]

 

That is why the judge called him in to testify

 

because it's irrelevant

Is the above quote really what happened? A trainer put a pad on the brush to protect their hands? And both teams used it while the officials watched?

[edjr 6,586]

Is the above quote really what happened? A trainer put a pad on the brush to protect their hands? And both teams used it while the officials watched?

 

 

"attempted to use unapproved equipment to prep the K balls prior to a game"

 

 

the player who could have benefited from the alleged 'attempt to gain a competitive advantage' was not investigated, let alone disciplined."

[NewbieJr 541]

 

 

Ok, so I'm already getting two different stories. I'll reserve opinion on it since I've never heard a thing about it previously, plus in the last 15 minutes, I'm already getting conflicting stories.

 

As for why the judge brought Feely in, maybe he wanted him to explain to Brady what manning up and being truthful is all about. Andy Pettite may have been tied up.

[edjr 6,586]

Ok, so I'm already getting two different stories. I'll reserve opinion on it since I've never heard a thing about it previously, plus in the last 15 minutes, I'm already getting conflicting stories.

 

As for why the judge brought Feely in, maybe he wanted him to explain to Brady what manning up and being truthful is all about. Andy Pettite may have been tied up.

 

I gave you the link. go focking read it

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Ok, so I'm already getting two different stories. I'll reserve opinion on it since I've never heard a thing about it previously, plus in the last 15 minutes, I'm already getting conflicting stories.

 

Well, given that it was an ESPN report, you can pretty much expect it to be totally focked up. Still waiting for them to admit that they reported (many times over) a completely false story and have never retracted it. Maybe, if we wait another 7-8 years, they will do it on another midnight broadcast.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

I gave you the link. go focking read it

no