Cruzer 1,995 Posted January 1, 2017 So a one time killer couldn't use a garrotte? Well that would eliminate the Ramsey"s then.You're buying into 'small foreign factions', 'heads up screams', killers who leave their own leverage (the body) behind, 3 page ransom novels, waiting to call days afterwards, planning on nobody discovering the dead body under the secret hiding blanket - you buy into all this but can't imagine the Ramseys staging this - really? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 You're buying into 'small foreign factions', 'heads up screams', killers who leave their own leverage (the body) behind, 3 page ransom novels, waiting to call days afterwards, planning on nobody discovering the dead body under the secret hiding blanket - you buy into all this but can't imagine the Ramseys staging this - really? No. I'm not seeing any evidence pointing to a Ramsey anymore than an Intruder. A ransom note was found. A horrible murder was done to a 6 year old. John, Patsy, and Burke all denied they were involved. Polygraph tests confirm this. There is no evidence linking Patsy to the ransom note. There is no evidence linking John, Patsy, or Burke to the injuries on JonBenet. If you want me to believe the Ramsey's did it, then explain it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 No. I'm not seeing any evidence pointing to a Ramsey anymore than an Intruder. A ransom note was found. A horrible murder was done to a 6 year old. John, Patsy, and Burke all denied they were involved. Polygraph tests confirm this. There is no evidence linking Patsy to the ransom note. There is no evidence linking John, Patsy, or Burke to the injuries on JonBenet. If you want me to believe the Ramsey's did it, then explain it. Bolded - really? Evidence linking mom to ransom note - they had a handwriting expert that made the link. That is evidence. Whether you believe it is another thing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 Bolded - really? Evidence linking mom to ransom note - they had a handwriting expert that made the link. That is evidence. Whether you believe it is another thing Handwriting expert. Lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,995 Posted January 1, 2017 No. I'm not seeing any evidence pointing to a Ramsey anymore than an Intruder. A ransom note was found. A horrible murder was done to a 6 year old. John, Patsy, and Burke all denied they were involved. Polygraph tests confirm this. They all denied it, really? Well gosh, I guess that proves it - innocent, they denied it. Let me tell you something about polygraph tests, there's a reason they are inadmissible... I failed the one given to me in my friend's murder - and yet, there are 2 guys doing life in the Texas Department of Corrections for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 Handwriting expert. Lol. So you don't give it much weight? That's fine, maybe you shouldn't. But to say there's "no evidence" is simply wrong. Another thing you'd understand if you were ever actually a cop Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,995 Posted January 1, 2017 Pasty is the only one they could not officially rule out as the author of the novel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 So you don't give it much weight? That's fine, maybe you shouldn't. But to say there's "no evidence" is simply wrong. Another thing you'd understand if you were ever actually a cop Like I said, " handwriting expert". Lol. Nobody gives it much weight. You don't know that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,422 Posted January 1, 2017 Like I said, " handwriting expert". Lol. Nobody gives it much weight. You don't know that? Handwriting experts also look at written use of unique words and phrases, Columbo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 Handwriting experts also look at written use of unique words and phrases, Columbo. Lol 2x Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 Pasty is the only one they could not officially rule out as the author of the novel. All of her lower case b's and d's have a very short height on the stem. The ransom note writer has a high stem on the b'd and d's. Dissimilar letters are even more important than similar letters. I thought some of the handwriting professionals said it was highly unlikely Patsy wrote the note and gave her a 4.5 on a scale of 5, with 5 being completely ruled out as the writer of the ransom note. 1 being definitely wrote it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 Bolded - really? Evidence linking mom to ransom note - they had a handwriting expert that made the link. That is evidence. Whether you believe it is another thing Not true. One of the so call handwriting "experts" thought it likely to be Patsy, but her's was thrown out because she didn't have the credentials to be a handwriting expert. Of course, people that think Patsy wrote it always refer to that. Of the credited handwriting experts who examined the ransom note and Patsy's exemplars, They either said it was either unlikely or inconclusive if Patsy wrote the note. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 Bolded - really? Yes, a highly respected polygrapher examiner said the polygraph showed that John was telling the truth when he said No to being asked if He killed JonBenet and answered No if He knew who did it. Patsy, same thing. Also, Patsy answered No to if she wrote the ransom note, and the polygraph examination showed she was not being deceptive but telling the truth. The results were examined by the person who invented the polygraph examination. Burke wasn't given a polygraph test. But I would consider each parent passing the test that they didn't know who killed their daughter would rule him out to, at least as to the best a polygraph test can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 Not true. One of the so call handwriting "experts" thought it likely to be Patsy, but her's was thrown out because she didn't have the credentials to be a handwriting expert. Of course, people that think Patsy wrote it always refer to that. Of the credited handwriting experts who examined the ransom note and Patsy's exemplars, They either said it was either unlikely or inconclusive if Patsy wrote the note. Who paid for the "expert" testimony? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 Someone wanted information about the cause of death> Boulder County Coroner, Dr. John Meyer, was the first to enter the residence after the search warrant was signed by Judge Diane MacDonald in the early evening hours of December 26. Dr. Meyer placed protective booties over his shoes and surgical gloves on his hands to prevent any further contamination of the crime scene. The only investigative duties of Dr. Meyer was to pronounce the death of the Little Miss Colorado and examine the remains to aid in solving this crime. Dr. Meyer observed ligature marks on her neck and petechial hemorrhages to her eyes both signs of death by strangulation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 Who paid for the "expert" testimony? I think the taxpayers of Colorado. Boulder police asked Patsy and John for the writing samples so wouldn't that make sense? Do you know that answer to that? I'd have to research it to say for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 I think the taxpayers of Colorado. Boulder police asked Patsy and John for the writing samples so wouldn't that make sense? Do you know that answer to that? I'd have to research it to say for sure. I don't. But I'm a sceptical of a witness that is paid for their work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 There actually was a killer that was caught who killed young women and girls in their homes. i think he was from Texas. His first killing he only used rope and no garrote. The investigators only learned of that killing because he confessed to it. They asked him why he used a garrote on subsequent victims and he said because he broke his finger the first time when he used only rope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 I don't. But I'm a sceptical of a witness that is paid for their work. I understand that, but I think being paid is a given, and they would not have been coerced to give certain results. The Boulder PD thought that Patsy wrote the note, so the handwriting experts didn't really help them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 Not true. One of the so call handwriting "experts" thought it likely to be Patsy, but her's was thrown out because she didn't have the credentials to be a handwriting expert. Of course, people that think Patsy wrote it always refer to that. Of the credited handwriting experts who examined the ransom note and Patsy's exemplars, They either said it was either unlikely or inconclusive if Patsy wrote the note. Like I said, you might not put much stock in it but at least one "expert drew the link. And it was "thrown out"? Really? By whom? There was never a prosecution was there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 Someone wanted information about the cause of death> Boulder County Coroner, Dr. John Meyer, was the first to enter the residence after the search warrant was signed by Judge Diane MacDonald in the early evening hours of December 26. Dr. Meyer placed protective booties over his shoes and surgical gloves on his hands to prevent any further contamination of the crime scene. The only investigative duties of Dr. Meyer was to pronounce the death of the Little Miss Colorado and examine the remains to aid in solving this crime. Dr. Meyer observed ligature marks on her neck and petechial hemorrhages to her eyes both signs of death by strangulation. That tells us nothing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 I don't. But I'm a sceptical of a witness that is paid for their work. I.e. basically every expert out there? Another indication that you were never a cop. What are we up to now, 150? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 I.e. basically every expert out there? Another indication that you were never a cop. What are we up to now, 150? Ha ha. It drives you crazy, I know. Alas, I was but a humble patrolman for most of my twenty, but I have actually participated in a murder trial or two. You? Not so much. Go file that brief junior. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 Ha ha. It drives you crazy, I know. Alas, I was but a humble patrolman for most of my twenty, but I have actually participated in a murder trial or two. You? Not so much. Go file that brief junior. Nope, never done a murder trial. Neither have you, or any kind of trial for that matter. Sounds to me like you've never even been on a jury Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 There was a long list of suspects, however many were ruled out because of DNA found on JonBenet. The parents DNA was not that found on her body either. They were ruled out as suspects. In 2008, new DNA tests suggested JonBenet’s murderer was not her parents, but a “mysterious outsider”. The findings resulted in prosecutors clearing Patsy and John in the death of their daughter. In a letter obtained by NBC, Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy told John Ramsey, “To the extent that we may have contributed in any way to the public perception that you might have been involved in this crime, I am deeply sorry. No innocent person should have to endure such an extensive trial in the court of public opinion.” In response to the news, John Ramsey told KUSA-TV, “I think the people that are in charge of the investigation are focused on that, and that gives me a lot of comfort. Certainly we are grateful that they acknowledged that we, based on that, certainly could not have been involved.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 There was a long list of suspects, however many were ruled out because of DNA found on JonBenet. Well, if they ruled out several suspects for not matching the DNA, then why do the parents continue to be considered suspects? Their DNA was not that found on her body either. What I'm saying is if you ignore that DNA, then all of those suspects need to be reconsidered, not ruled out. I'm sure the parents' DNA was everywhere, it was their house and their daughter. If a stranger's DNA ain't there, then it seems quite likely that he never was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 Nope, never done a murder trial. Neither have you, or any kind of trial for that matter. Sounds to me like you've never even been on a jury Google- Michael Vernon, Little Chester Shoes. That's the biggest one I was involved in. Locked that guy up numerous times before his spree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 Google- Michael Vernon, Little Chester Shoes. That's the biggest one I was involved in. Locked that guy up numerous times before his spree. Sure you did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 Sure you did. Ah ha. You got nothin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 I'm sure the parents' DNA was everywhere, it was their house and their daughter. If a stranger's DNA ain't there, then it seems quite likely that he never was. A stranger's DNA WAS THERE. On a blood spot mixed with JonBenet's DNA was found unidentified male DNA. It was found in two places, both on her panties and on the longjohns she was found in. That's how these murderers are usually found. Find the matching DNA and you have the killer. Parents have already been cleared of this crime as have several of their friends and all of their family. In 2008, new DNA tests suggested JonBenet’s murderer was not her parents, but a “mysterious outsider”. The findings resulted in prosecutors clearing Patsy and John in the death of their daughter. In a letter obtained by NBC, Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy told John Ramsey, “To the extent that we may have contributed in any way to the public perception that you might have been involved in this crime, I am deeply sorry. No innocent person should have to endure such an extensive trial in the court of public opinion.” In response to the news, John Ramsey told KUSA-TV, “I think the people that are in charge of the investigation are focused on that, and that gives me a lot of comfort. Certainly we are grateful that they acknowledged that we, based on that, certainly could not have been involved.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tanatastic 2,062 Posted January 1, 2017 Shame, she would prob be highly bangable by now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted January 1, 2017 Like I said, you might not put much stock in it but at least one "expert drew the link. And it was "thrown out"? Really? By whom? There was never a prosecution was there? One man, Robert Christian Wolf, whom police questioned about the crime at the urging of JonBenet's parents, John and Patsy, sued the parents for libel and defamation after they repeatedly named him as a potential suspect. Wolf claimed in the lawsuit, filed in Georgia in 2002, that Patsy killed JonBenet and wrote the ransom note in an attempt to cover up the crime. Wolf brought in Wong as an expert in handwriting analysis. Wong submitted a detailed analysis of the ransom note, concluding that the girl's mother wrote it. "Patsy Ramsey made a primitive attempt at disguising her handwriting when writing the three-page ransom note," Wong wrote. A federal judge, however, refused to allow Wolf to use Wong as an "expert witness." Her analysis could not be admitted in that court. The judge later dismissed the case. http://pilotonline.com/news/handwriting-expert-says-author-stole-her-jonbenet-ramsey-work/article_15fe2aec-6a60-5497-8be7-a8617a73110a.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 Like I said, handwriting "experts" are not taken seriously by judges and stuff. Someone tell Worms before he wastes his clients money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 Handwriting experts are like voice recognition experts. Sometimes they're allowed in; often they aren't. But it's "evidence" in either case, the question is if it's ADMISSIBLE evidence Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,428 Posted January 1, 2017 Handwriting experts are like voice recognition experts. Sometimes they're allowed in; often they aren't. But it's "evidence" in either case, the question is if it's ADMISSIBLE evidence Tap out kid. There will be other days. Today isn't one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted January 1, 2017 Tap out kid. There will be other days. Today isn't one of them. Okay pal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted January 2, 2017 They all denied it, really? Well gosh, I guess that proves it - innocent, they denied it. Let me tell you something about polygraph tests, there's a reason they are inadmissible... I failed the one given to me in my friend's murder - and yet, there are 2 guys doing life in the Texas Department of Corrections for it. do you have a tear drop tattoo? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,995 Posted January 3, 2017 do you have a tear drop tattoo? Ha, no.......................................Not yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,995 Posted January 3, 2017 More random questions: - How did the mystery killer get JonBenet out of bed and downstairs w/out making a sound? - Why did JonBemet not scream upon seeing a stranger from this small foreign faction? - How exactly does one (both) enter and leave thru a broken basement window without disturbing the cobwebs on the window frame parts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Filthy Fernadez 2,696 Posted January 3, 2017 The random dna in her panties is a red herring. They tested several packages of new panties and found dna on all of them. Most likely from manufacturing. The ransom note was ridiculous. Cobwebs in the broken basement window suggest that no one actually entered from there. I watched the same show where they detailed everything. Combined with the fact that Patsy wrote the note and was still in the same clothes as the night before (indicating she pulled an all nighter covering it up) leaves you with one conclusion; Patsy was the killer or a conspirator. DNA from an unknown white male was found on BOTH the panties and the longjohns. If dna was from manufacturing it could not be from a person on two articles of clothing manufactured in different places. Also, dna during the manufacturing process would be from an Asian woman, not a white male. You are obviously John Ramsey or Patsy speaking from the grave with this stuff. The panties were touching the long johns so that's why the same DNA was present on both. Also, the Boulder PD didn't lock down the scene so there may have been a transference that was as well. Someone hit the girl so hard with something, it fractured her skull. If she wet the bed again, Patsy (after several glasses of wine) might have snapped (friends indicate she was growing increasingly frustrated with Jon Bonet's bedwetting) and hit her. More likely was the brother gets pineapple, goes to do something and comes back to find his sister eating it. He gets p!ssed, and hits her with something. Patsy and/or John awake and the cover up begins so they don't lose both children. They can't take her to the hospital so they finish her off and Patsy begins writing the note. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites