Cloaca du jour 2,064 Posted May 20, 2018 This country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem and a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem. Discuss 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 513 Posted May 20, 2018 I'll go. This country has a small mental health issue. Not near the problem the left will feed you. As far as the gun violence, that's easy. every gun owner is responsible for their gun. This guy in Texas, the parent, murder charge. He is obviously not a law abiding citizen. Rogan can blow me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted May 20, 2018 Denial is a big part of mental illness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,083 Posted May 20, 2018 As a person who is for more common senses gun control, I do cringe when the left seems to believe that gun control is some magic bullet to stop crazy people from doing crazy things. They are so fixated on it. ETA: This dude had a shotgun and a revolver. Not some so called assault weapon. He could of easily threw gasoline on a school bus a lit it on fire. Or drive a van into a crowded pep rally. We can have a serious discussion about guns, Im for it, but its not the root cause issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted May 20, 2018 As a person who is for more common senses gun control, I do cringe when the left seems to believe that gun control is some magic bullet to stop crazy people from doing crazy things. They are so fixated on it. Most common gun control measures are supported by both "sides", yet the retards complaining about tyrannical confiscation of all guns drive policy. Meanwhile, you're complaining about those pesky leftists Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,083 Posted May 20, 2018 Most common gun control measures are supported by both "sides", yet the retards complaining about tyrannical confiscation of all guns drive policy. Meanwhile, you're complaining about those pesky leftists Im just saying guns arent the root cause. When solving an issue its best to drill down to the root cause. Doesnt mean we cant have gun control conversations but lets understand what were talking about here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert 1,091 Posted May 20, 2018 Denial is a big part of mental illness. As the biggest denier on the board you would be most qualified. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted May 20, 2018 As the biggest denier on the board you would be most qualified. Please elaborate how I'm in denial. TIA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 20, 2018 Remember when trump repealed laws preventing people collecting benefits for mental illness from buying guns Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted May 20, 2018 Im just saying guns arent the root cause. When solving an issue its best to drill down to the root cause. Doesnt mean we cant have gun control conversations but lets understand what were talking about here. The problem is multifactorial; there isn't one root cause. And many of the reported contributors don't readily lend themselves to quick fixes, or any fix for that matter. We need to focus on the modifiable risk factors, of which gun availability is a big one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,904 Posted May 20, 2018 Actually agree with what Charles Barkley is saying right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert 1,091 Posted May 20, 2018 As the biggest denier on the board you would be most qualified. You seem to deny mental illness is the cause of all these problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted May 20, 2018 You seem to deny mental illness is the cause of all these problems. Mental illness exists everywhere (as do the treatments), yet we have a disproportionate amount of gun violence compared to the rest of the developed world. Why? Mental illness is a part of the problem, but not all of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted May 20, 2018 Mental illness exists everywhere (as do the treatments), yet we have a disproportionate amount of gun violence compared to the rest of the developed world. Why? Mental illness is a part of the problem, but not all of it. how is mental illness treated between the 2 ? Same ? As many kids medicated in the rest off the developed world as here ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted May 20, 2018 how is mental illness treated between the 2 ? Same ? As many kids medicated in the rest off the developed world as here ? I don't know for certain, but the same/similar meds are prescribed here and overseas. We likely use more of them, but I've already pointed out the problems with blaming it solely on the meds. How do our guns per capita compare to the rest of the developed world? How does this relate to gun violence worldwide? What happens when more restrictive gun measures are in place? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,979 Posted May 21, 2018 Remember when trump repealed laws preventing people collecting benefits for mental illness from buying guns So.much wrong with this statement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 21, 2018 So.much wrong with this statement. What's wrong with the statment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,979 Posted May 21, 2018 What's wrong with the statment Let's start with your assertion that the rule (wasn't a law) would have applied to people collecting benefits FOR mental illness. That is patently untrue. We can then go on to discuss how groups such as the ACLU and disability rights groups also wanted the rule overturned. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 21, 2018 So what if the ACLU or disability rights groups wanted it overturned Bottom line is trump threw out regulations in place to help prevent mentality disabled individuals from getting weapons Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,979 Posted May 21, 2018 So what if the ACLU or disability rights groups wanted it overturned Bottom line is trump threw out regulations in place to help prevent mentality disabled individuals from getting weapons without due process LOL. I noticed how you completely ignored that you posted a falsehood when you said that the rule applied to people who were getting benefits for mental health issues. Why is that? Maybe it's because the rule was idiotic. It applied to people who needed assistance doing their finances. Like old people. Yeah, I don't think we should be removing constitutional rights from people just because they got old, their mind isn't quite as clear as it used to be, and they need help doing their finances. The reason disability groups opposed the rule was because there is no link between mental health and violence. At the very least you give people due process before removing their rights. Here's a good op-ed explaining all of this: https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/15/no-trump-did-not-make-it-easier-for-ment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 21, 2018 LOL. I noticed how you completely ignored that you posted a falsehood when you said that the rule applied to people who were getting benefits for mental health issues. Why is that? Maybe it's because the rule was idiotic. It applied to people who needed assistance doing their finances. Like old people. Yeah, I don't think we should be removing constitutional rights from people just because they got old, their mind isn't quite as clear as it used to be, and they need help doing their finances. The reason disability groups opposed the rule was because there is no link between mental health and violence. At the very least you give people due process before removing their rights. Here's a good op-ed explaining all of this: https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/15/no-trump-did-not-make-it-easier-for-ment Wait... Didn't the words come outta his mouth take the guns and worry about process later? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 21, 2018 LOL. I noticed how you completely ignored that you posted a falsehood when you said that the rule applied to people who were getting benefits for mental health issues. Why is that? Maybe it's because the rule was idiotic. It applied to people who needed assistance doing their finances. Like old people. Yeah, I don't think we should be removing constitutional rights from people just because they got old, their mind isn't quite as clear as it used to be, and they need help doing their finances. The reason disability groups opposed the rule was because there is no link between mental health and violence. At the very least you give people due process before removing their rights. Here's a good op-ed explaining all of this: https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/15/no-trump-did-not-make-it-easier-for-ment Not mentally stable enough to balance a check book. But can be responsible gun owner? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 513 Posted May 21, 2018 Gun availability is an issue with this country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,979 Posted May 21, 2018 Not mentally stable enough to balance a check book. But can be responsible gun owner? Then take them away with due process. Seems simple enough. Do you believe in due process? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 21, 2018 Then take them away with due process. Seems simple enough. Do you believe in due process? The president said he doesn't Shrug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,892 Posted May 21, 2018 I'll go. This country has a small mental health issue. Not near the problem the left will feed you. As far as the gun violence, that's easy. every gun owner is responsible for their gun. This guy in Texas, the parent, murder charge. He is obviously not a law abiding citizen. Rogan can blow me. I wouldnt go so far as a murder charge. But assuming his guns were not in a safe or otherwise secured he should be held criminally liable to the tune of jail time IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,979 Posted May 21, 2018 The president said he doesn't Shrug Moving the goalposts I see. Guess we're done here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 513 Posted May 21, 2018 I wouldnt go so far as a murder charge. But assuming his guns were not in a safe or otherwise secured he should be held criminally liable to the tune of jail time IMO. I can live with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 459 Posted May 21, 2018 Denial is a big part of mental illness. So what are you denying here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted May 21, 2018 So what are you denying here? Intelligent debate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,585 Posted May 21, 2018 Intelligent debate to paraphrase, agreeing with Pen or else you are stupid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted May 21, 2018 to paraphrase, agreeing with Pen or else you are stupid No, bring valid counterarguments, based on fact instead of opinion, rather than summarily dismissing the other side as scared/socialist/beta/etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745 Posted May 21, 2018 Heres the thing. The right wants to point to mental illness as the culprit. Ok. This has been going on and on for years now. You hold the entire government at the moment. Wheres the plan? Any solution whatsoever? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,585 Posted May 21, 2018 Heres the thing. The right wants to point to mental illness as the culprit. Ok. This has been going on and on for years now. You hold the entire government at the moment. Wheres the plan? Any solution whatsoever? I don't I learned long ago that people are inherently evil, and it takes strong will to be a good person. Its much easier to shift into evil than to go in the other direction when you believe as I do, you want to have the means to protect yourself from evil 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745 Posted May 21, 2018 I don't I learned long ago that people are inherently evil, and it takes strong will to be a good person. Its much easier to shift into evil than to go in the other direction I dont think most people are inherently evil. Some certainly are, for sure. Most are just inherently weak. They will do whatever is expected of them, more or less. They will go no further than they can go without meeting serious reisistance. Hence the problem. We no longer provide any boundaries or resistance whatsoever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,585 Posted May 21, 2018 I dont think most people are inherently evil. Some certainly are, for sure. Most are just inherently weak. They will do whatever is expected of them, more or less. They will go no further than they can go without meeting serious reisistance. Hence the problem. We no longer provide any boundaries or resistance whatsoever. Im not a bible guy or anything but I do believe than all mankind is born in sin, if a child is raised without proper guidance they will become a bad person naturally Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,643 Posted May 21, 2018 Don't care about the he quote. Amazes me this guy is still around. Bad comic. Limited part in one sitcom 30 years ago. Still, just keeps clawing for whatever gig he can get. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,643 Posted May 21, 2018 Im not a bible guy or anything but I do believe than all mankind is born in sin, if a child is raised without proper guidance they will become a bad person naturally Then how come the converse isn't true? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,643 Posted May 21, 2018 Let's face it. We used to blame all kinds of shiit on the supernatural. Now we mostly know better. Someday, we'll be able to diagnose and treat evil the way we do other defects. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites