Standings tie breakers

[blackhawks 5]

How do leagues handle tie breakers in case of divisional ties?

2 way tie?

3 or more ties?

 

My thought is

1-overall record

2-division record

3-hth

4-overall points

 

We have a scenario where we could potentially have a 3 or 4 way tie for division winner and second place...only top 2 in each division move on to playoffs.

 

Thoughts??

[Phil Simms 11 134]

The way you listed it is how my league does it as well to determine division winners. Remaining playoff teams based on power rankings. (Power rankings formula includes total points, record if played every team every week, overall record).

[TimmySmith 2,783]

Pts scored should always be number 1.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Pts scored should always be number 1.

Disagree. A team having one or two big weeks shouldn't get them in the playoffs.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

Disagree. A team having one or two big weeks shouldn't get them in the playoffs.

In general, pts scored is the best measure of the strongest team in the league. I don't see how this is even debatable.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

In general, pts scored is the best measure of the strongest team in the league. I don't see how this is even debatable.

We use a two win a week system one for h2h one for top six in points. Most points scored does not show consistency as well as you would think. I can assure you of that.

[jrokh 615]

Agree with total points as best tiebreaker. Over a 13 week sample size it is the best estimate of team strength

[Ehlana 25]

My league doesn't have divisions (only 8 teams) but we use total points scored as our tiebreaker for playoff seeding.

[Phil Simms 11 134]

After record, I like the power rank based on team record if played every team each week. I like this over any other method including total points.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

After record, I like the power rank based on team record if played every team each week. I like this over any other method including total points.

I agree with that.

[TennisMenace 156]

Agree with total points as best tiebreaker. Over a 13 week sample size it is the best estimate of team strength

Agree. Everyone on equal footing.

[mark32esu 18]

Points should always be the default tiebreaker

[weepaws 3,351]

Total points should be the tie breaker.

[Phil Simms 11 134]

Total record breakdown should be the tiebreaker, it is simply better than total points.

 

Each week you record an overall W-L as if you played each team. In my 12 teamer this week I received 10-1 as my weekly score. By end of week 13 you have your total breakdown of all 143 games (11 games weekly over 13 weeks). It is a better reflection of what team is better, the one that performed as well consistently throughout the season. The one that is a very good team always playing the top scorer each week.

 

Total points and total record breakdown tend to have similar results, but total record is a better way to find the strongest team. Elevates the team that would have won the most with a fairer schedule over the team that had a monster week but was not as good the rest of the weeks.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Total record breakdown should be the tiebreaker, it is simply better than total points.

 

Each week you record an overall W-L as if you played each team. In my 12 teamer this week I received 11-1 as my weekly score. By end of week 13 you have your total breakdown of all 156 games (12 games weekly over 13 weeks). It is a better reflection of what team is better, the one that performed as well consistently throughout the season. The one that is a very good team always playing the top scorer each week.

 

Total points and total record breakdown tend to have similar results, but total record is a better way to find the strongest team. Elevates the team that would have won the most with a fairer schedule over the team that had a monster week but was not as good the rest of the weeks.

It's easily the best metric of which team consistently had the better team. Total points puts too much emphasis on the outlier weeks.

[weepaws 3,351]

I think total points tells the truth of the quality of ones team and ones ability to coach that team.

 

Win and lose records as a tie breaker just flat out stinks.

 

Expecally in a 12 or even a 14 team league.

 

You might only play another team once in a 14 teamer.

 

I think a teams quality of work based on coaching is total points scored.

 

In all the leagues Im in we do head to head plus a total points for the season champs.

 

So you can win both.

 

But total points to me just tells the truth about that teams coaching and over all quality over the course of the season.

[Phil Simms 11 134]

I think total points tells the truth of the quality of ones team and ones ability to coach that team.

 

Win and lose records as a tie breaker just flat out stinks.

 

DAFUQ

 

The teams ability to score more points than most of the other teams every week is not an indication of a good "coach?"

 

But a team that had an outlier big week is? Logic fail

[weepaws 3,351]

Lol no it’s not always.

 

I have had teams that where number one in points scored but yet missed the playoffs.

 

I’m sure you’ve had also.

 

Most points is the best tie breaker it’s shows the truth of one coaching ability on a weekly bases and about the quality of that team.

 

That’s why we do both head to head, but also most points.

 

Sorry.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

I think total points tells the truth of the quality of ones team and ones ability to coach that team.

 

Win and lose records as a tie breaker just flat out stinks.

 

Expecally in a 12 or even a 14 team league.

 

You might only play another team once in a 14 teamer.

 

I think a teams quality of work based on coaching is total points scored.

 

In all the leagues Im in we do head to head plus a total points for the season champs.

 

So you can win both.

 

But total points to me just tells the truth about that teams coaching and over all quality over the course of the season.

Total points only gives an indication that a player had a consistently top team. Total wins breakdown actually gives proof of that. There's a team in my league who has more points than another but there is a large gap between them in the breakdown with the lower total points team having the significant edge. The reason is the breakdown leader is consistently a top 2 or 3 team never finishing lower than sixth. The other team is boom or bust. Posting two massive weeks as the highest scoring team, while also posting several bottom two weeks. Tavon Austin was always my argument against total points. A couple years he finished as a top 30 receiver, yet no one ever owned him because he would score half his points in one week and lay near goose eggs the rest. In a total points system, you would be better off starting him not caring if he busted cause you knew at some point he would boom, which is better than starting a more reliable weekly option.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Lol no it’s not always.

 

I have had teams that where number one in points scored but yet missed the playoffs.

 

I’m sure you’ve had also.

 

Most points is the best tie breaker it’s shows the truth of one coaching ability on a weekly bases and about the quality of that team.

 

That’s why we do both head to head, but also most points.

 

Sorry.

Wrong. Weekly coaching is better indicated in weekly breakdowns not total points. it shows who weekly had the better team.

[weepaws 3,351]

You can score the second most points in a given weekly matchup but lose the game but your better then the other ten teams that week but you still lose.

 

Over all total points show the true measure of a team and the coach.

 

Thanks.

[weepaws 3,351]

Total points only gives an indication that a player had a consistently top team. Total wins breakdown actually gives proof of that. There's a team in my league who has more points than another but there is a large gap between them in the breakdown with the lower total points team having the significant edge. The reason is the breakdown leader is consistently a top 2 or 3 team never finishing lower than sixth. The other team is boom or bust. Posting two massive weeks as the highest scoring team, while also posting several bottom two weeks. Tavon Austin was always my argument against total points. A couple years he finished as a top 30 receiver, yet no one ever owned him because he would score half his points in one week and lay near goose eggs the rest. In a total points system, you would be better off starting him not caring if he busted cause you knew at some point he would boom, which is better than starting a more reliable weekly option.

If you started Austin and he’s busting that would not only hurt your hth wins but also total points.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

You can score the second most points in a given weekly matchup but lose the game but your better then the other ten teams that week but you still lose.

 

Over all total points show the true measure of a team and the coach.

 

Thanks.

I dont think you understand what a weekly breakdown is. In your scenario in a weekly breakdown that team would be 10-1. For the tie were talking about using the sum of both team weekly breakdown.

[NAn 39]

Phil and BB, your systems are what I do believe ultimately determine the best teams as you're not at the mercy of losing 127.3- 127.1, when you would have beat any other team (like I did when Manning decided to actually remedy Giants RZ woes for one night v Niners and score on last drive instead of having Rojas kick a FG, but I digress), as in the above I would at least be 1-1 for week in your system or 11-1 in BBs.

 

But bottom line, most leagues just don't do that. They just do H2H default options at a particular site...some customization, but not to degree that your leagues do.

 

So then when it's not multiple games played by week to do overall record then division, etc. most pts is best otherwise you/re basically are doubling down on the H2H randomness. I've scored 3rd most points in my league but have had the most points scored against me (by like 200 pts). 4 teams literally have scored their most points of season against me. As such I sit at 6-6 and need to win next week to make playoffs.

 

Again speaking to your system/s being anomalies.

having anything involved with record be additional tiebreakers, punishes the team for just having bad luck of scheduling and facing teams that have huge weeks.

 

Also BTW, is it difficult to set up your league that way? Phil what about yours? B/c I'm not knocking, I'd actually like to participate/create/persuade current league to do something similar but no one really wants to do a lot of extra week to week adjustments.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

If you started Austin and hes busting that would not only hurt your hth wins but also total points.

It's hurts in h2h but in total points systems he was a far better option because in the end he would have more points than more consistent players. Once again using a weekly breakdown for a tiebreaker is not even close to being H2H. It's just a better guage of weekly consistency than total points.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Phil and BB, your systems are what I do believe ultimately determine the best teams as you're not at the mercy of losing 127.3- 127.1, when you would have beat any other team (like I did when Manning decided to actually remedy Giants RZ woes for one night v Niners and score on last drive instead of having Rojas kick a FG, but I digress), as in the above I would at least be 1-1 for week in your system or 11-1 in BBs.

 

But bottom line, most leagues just don't do that. They just do H2H default options at a particular site...some customization, but not to degree that your leagues do.

 

So then when it's not multiple games played by week to do overall record then division, etc. most pts is best otherwise you/re basically are doubling down on the H2H randomness. I've scored 3rd most points in my league but have had the most points scored against me (by like 200 pts). 4 teams literally have scored their most points of season against me. As such I sit at 6-6 and need to win next week to make playoffs.

 

Again speaking to your system/s being anomalies.

having anything involved with record be additional tiebreakers, punishes the team for just having bad luck of scheduling and facing teams that have huge weeks.

 

Also BTW, is it difficult to set up your league that way? Phil what about yours? B/c I'm not knocking, I'd actually like to participate/create/persuade current league to do something similar but no one really wants to do a lot of extra week to week adjustments.

For weekly scoring we do a two win system one for H2H and one for being top six in scoring. The breakdown is used for playoff tiebreakers.

You just have to get away from the standard ESPN and yahoo sites. Sleeper bot has a lot of league customizations. We have an Excel wiz in our league who came up with a data sheet to pull all numbers and figure it all out for us. That's what we currently use, but I know a member has told us that sleeper bot offers a similar set up.

[Phil Simms 11 134]

If you are in any CBS leagues it has the overall record calculated. Go to standings, power ranking. In the next screen click breakdown

[blackhawks 5]

Great debate guys...great points made by all...But,the more I read and reread this thread,the more Im leaning towards agreeing with Phil and BB. I dont think total points should be the end all as some are suggesting. Why should the better team be punished for a potentially bad luck week? For instance,say one week his top player gets hurt in the midst of a game and gets you zero points when he couldve potentially got you,lets say,30? What if at the end this same team loses out of a playoff spot by those 30 points? How is that a true measurement of how good a team is? Just seems like a lot of what ifs and luck with total points.....again, great debate. I may reread this and come back thinking the other way...but for now Im liking the way Phil and BB are explaining things..

 

Good stuff

[NAn 39]

For weekly scoring we do a two win system one for H2H and one for being top six in scoring. The breakdown is used for playoff tiebreakers.

You just have to get away from the standard ESPN and yahoo sites. Sleeper bot has a lot of league customizations. We have an Excel wiz in our league who came up with a data sheet to pull all numbers and figure it all out for us. That's what we currently use, but I know a member has told us that sleeper bot offers a similar set up.

 

Thanks for info.

[easilyscan 1,014]

It's easily the best metric of which team consistently had the better team. Total points puts too much emphasis on the outlier weeks.

Every week you play, whether it's against someone you dislike, or your best friend, the goal is to score as many points as possible.

With that in mind, I say total points should be the tiebreaker. Pretty sure that's the default method on Yahoo.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Every week you play, whether it's against someone you dislike, or your best friend, the goal is to score as many points as possible.

With that in mind, I say total points should be the tiebreaker. Pretty sure that's the default method on Yahoo.

I believe a team that is more likely to be in the top six deserves to be in more than the team that is more likely to be in the top three or bottom three.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,339]

In my 12 team H2H league with 3 divisions, the H2H record against each other is first, then Division record, then Division points scored and then overall points.

[easilyscan 1,014]

Very interesting subject.

I've been the commissioner of a league since I started it in 2006.

 

This year I made 3 changes.

Fractional scoring.

No trades.

Points only scoring/standings.

 

But I also made it clear that, if enough people wanted to change any/all of these new settings next year, we could.

No complaints so far, & my job as Commissioner is made a lot easier.

 

In a yahoo points only league, the tiebreaker is this.

The tied manager who scored the most points in the last game week wins. If there's still a tie, the process continues for each previous week until the tie is broken & someone is crowned champion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nospk 230]

Total record breakdown should be the tiebreaker, it is simply better than total points.

 

Each week you record an overall W-L as if you played each team. In my 12 teamer this week I received 11-1 as my weekly score. By end of week 13 you have your total breakdown of all 156 games (12 games weekly over 13 weeks). It is a better reflection of what team is better, the one that performed as well consistently throughout the season. The one that is a very good team always playing the top scorer each week.

 

You can’t go 11-1. There are only 11 other teams in a 12 team league. And that means there are 11 x 13 total=143 not 156. HTH

[Phil Simms 11 134]

You can’t go 11-1. There are only 11 other teams in a 12 team league. And that means there are 11 x 13 total=143 not 156. HTH

 

Yes, right

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

In my keeper league, we've almost eradicated the need for tie-breakers. We use a 3-tier system for the 6 playoff teams (one-third h2h, one-third points, one-third league-wide record). Each team has a point total and the top 6 make it - the tie breaker is how many tiers are you better than the person you're tied with. The top 2 teams get byes and the next 4 are the wild card teams. There is no playoff h2h until the championship, so seeds don't matter. The top 2 scoring wildcard teams of week 14 advance to the 2nd round. Them, plus the bye week teams match up in the same way in week 15 where the top 2 scoring teams match. Those two play for the championship in week 16.

 

Since there are no seeds, there's no need for tie-breakers. Division winners aren't guaranteed. If the top 2 teams tie, it doesn't matter who's #1 or #2, they're both getting byes. The next 4 teams aren't seeds 3-6, they're just wild card teams.

 

Each team is ranked 10-1 (10 being the highest in all 3 categories), based on Win%, Pts Scored, and league-wide record. Here's the results from last year...

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pPj0bpwBIAQgyLg_ZVwY0eeFSCapGQ2Q

 

As you can see, there is a tie for the last 2 spots (Gary & Joe), but it doesn't matter who the 5 or 6 seed is. They're equally wild cards teams with the 3 and 4 seed and the top 2 scorers advance to the 2nd round.

 

 

Here's a scenario where there was a tie (actually 2), back in 2015...

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YAqn-nV9hY8_vkl1qEE9ne87O9fsb-UI/view?usp=sharing

 

There was a tie for the second bye position between Ted and Gary. Ted got the bye because he won 2 of the 3 categories. Same with Joe and Matt for the last playoff spot. Joe won 2 of the 3 categories, so he gets the playoff spot.

Since we've implemented this system (2010), we've only had ties that actually needed breaking 3 times, 2015 (example above), was 2 of them. Any other ties were either between the top 2 teams or the next 4 teams where tie-breakers aren't needed.