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AOC and the "Green New Deal"...

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https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5729035-Green-New-Deal-FAQ

Some "high"lights:

Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle manufacturing, build charging stations everywhere, build out highspeed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every combustion-engine vehicle

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Why 100% clean and renewable and not just 100% renewable? Are you saying we won’t transition off fossil fuels?
Yes, we are calling for a full transition off fossil fuels and zero greenhouse gases Anyone who has read the resolution sees that we spell this out through a plan that calls for eliminating greenhouse gas emissions from every sector of the economy. Simply banning fossil fuels immediately won’t build the new economy to replace it – this is the plan to build that new economy and spells out how to do it technically. We do this through a huge mobilization to create the renewable energy economy as fast as possible. We set a goal to get to net-zero, rather than zero emissions, in 10 years because we aren’t sure that we’ll be able to fully get rid of farting cows and airplanes that fast, but we think we can ramp up renewable manufacturing and power production, retrofit every building in America, build the smart grid, overhaul transportation and agriculture, plant lots of trees and restore our ecosystem to get to net-zero.

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Repair and upgrade U.S. infrastructure. ASCE estimates this is $4.6 trillion at minimum.  Upgrade or replace every building in US for state-of-the-art energy efficiency.

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Seems doable, right?

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Did she really mention farting cows?  I guess forcing America to become 100% vegan is Phase Two. 

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12 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

I am not sure that big oil is the group you want to fock with from the get-go......

 

You should see our parking lot, at least 20 Tesla's at our office including multiple VP's.

 

The problem with charging stations is that we do not know which technology will be the eventual standard. Ford is coming out with an electric F150, etc.  The tesla charging is not compatible with Chevy, etc. What if the government chooses the BetaMax of chargers.

No reason to jump the gun, give the technology time to mature.

 

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Where does all the electricity for the glorious charging stations come from?  Maybe they can use clean burning cows to solve both problems at once! 

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5 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

You should see our parking lot, at least 20 Tesla's at our office including multiple VP's.

 

The problem with charging stations is that we do not know the technology. Ford is coming out with an electric F150, etc.  The tesla charging is not compatible with Chevy, etc.

No reason to jump the gun, give the technology time to mature.

 

We are behind in this.

The city I live in, Shenzhen... Every single bus is electric. Fully. For a city of ten million people. All motorcycles are electric. And you see Teslas so commonly it isn't even notable. Many of the other cars are hybrid.

The train thing, that's just not gonna work in America. Perhaps in some certain areas. The northeast, say Washington Baltimore Philly, NYC, Boston line. Maybe Cali.

China has high speed trains all across the country (which is roughly the same geographic size as the US). More often than not, I fly anyway, as the cost isn't much different, and the time is greatly different.

Now if your talking REALLY high speed trains, like the mag lev train from Shanghai that goes to the airport (does over 300mph) then maybe it would work, but that would by REALLY expensive. China was originally going to do one from beijing down the coast to Hong Kong. They scrapped it as it is crazy expensive.

The thing about electric vehicles though... It doesn't ELIMINATE pollution. It just moves it. The electricity still has to be produced somewhere. If your doing so by burning fossil fuel, then you're not really accomplishing anything. In fact, given the waste disposal of batteries problem, you're probably making it worse.

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Just now, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

We are behind in this.

The city I live in, Shenzhen... Every single bus is electric. Fully. For a city of ten million people. All motorcycles are electric. And you see Teslas so commonly it isn't even notable. Many of the other cars are hybrid.

The train thing, that's just not gonna work in America. Perhaps in some certain areas. The northeast, say Washington Baltimore Philly, NYC, Boston line. Maybe Cali.

China has high speed trains all across the country (which is roughly the same geographic size as the US). More often than not, I fly anyway, as the cost isn't much different, and the time is greatly different.

Now if your talking REALLY high speed trains, like the mag lev train from Shanghai that goes to the airport (does over 300mph) then maybe it would work, but that would by REALLY expensive. China was originally going to do one from beijing down the coast to Hong Kong. They scrapped it as it is crazy expensive.

The thing about electric vehicles though... It doesn't ELIMINATE pollution. It just moves it. The electricity still has to be produced somewhere. If your doing so by burning fossil fuel, then you're not really accomplishing anything. In fact, given the waste disposal of batteries problem, you're probably making it worse.

Not to mention the factories in China still pump out a huge amount of emissions right? People all walking around with those stupid masks on.

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Just now, Filthy Fernadez said:

Not to mention the factories in China still pump out a huge amount of emissions right? People all walking around with those stupid masks on.

In much of the country, yes.

I said that china is roughly the same size as the US, geographically? Well that's true. Except for the fact that 85% of the population lives in the eastern half. The Western half is populated by Muslims, who are currently in "reeducation camps.'

So while china likes to point at the electric busses and trains and sh!t, the REAL progress they are making in their cities air quality is moving the heavy industry out west to the empty part, turning it into a slave labor hellscape. They also harvest organs from those people.

We don't have the "luxury" of turning half of our country into an orwellian nightmare.

First we need to solve how to PRODUCE clean power (nuclear, whatever.) Then we can worry about running vehicles on it. Jmho. 

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2 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

How are those electric cars supposed to work in cold climates?  Maybe she just thought it was sunny CA warm everywhere?

That's an interesting question.  How well do they handle the cold?

Can one of the GC members from northern climates comment on how their fleet of Teslas fare during the winter? 

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4 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

How are those electric cars supposed to work in cold climates?  Maybe she just thought it was sunny CA warm everywhere?

They blow in the cold. My old electric motorcycle had big problems when it got cold. Like range cut in half problems.

Some people solve that by bringing the battery inside with them. That is less practical with cars obviously. 

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1 minute ago, DonS said:

That's an interesting question.  How well do they handle the cold?

Can one of the GC members from northern climates comment on how their fleet of Teslas fare during the winter? 

After a casual search on google, not very good.

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1 minute ago, DonS said:

That's an interesting question.  How well do they handle the cold?

Can one of the GC members from northern climates comment on how their fleet of Teslas fare during the winter? 

I got a hybrid because of the mileage I was putting on each day when my job's location got moved...  When it got really cold here (around zero), it didn't do well at all for about 10 minutes...

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1 minute ago, posty said:

I got a hybrid because of the mileage I was putting on each day when my job's location got moved...  When it got really cold here (around zero), it didn't do well at all for about 10 minutes...

You can turn in you man card now.

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15 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

The thing about electric vehicles though... It doesn't ELIMINATE pollution. It just moves it. The electricity still has to be produced somewhere. If your doing so by burning fossil fuel, then you're not really accomplishing anything. In fact, given the waste disposal of batteries problem, you're probably making it worse.

This is the logic "break point" for some folks.  Though I would like to see some attempt the quantify the energy usage dynamics on this. How much electricity does a gallon of gas translate to?  How much pollution is caused by compensating?

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Just now, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

You can turn in you man card now.

Sorry, in this case I had to do what made more sense...  I was filling up my older car every third day, now I can go 6-7 days before filling up...

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1 minute ago, posty said:

Sorry, in this case I had to do what made more sense...  I was filling up my older car every third day, now I can go 6-7 days before filling up...

You know what else is getting filled up every 3rd day?

That's right - yur mom!

BOOM!

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1 minute ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

This is the logic "break point" for some folks.  Though I would like to see some attempt the quantify the energy usage dynamics on this. How much electricity does a gallon of gas translate to?  How much pollution is caused by compensating?

I'm the furthest thing from an engineer. I know we have those types around here, so I'd love to hear about this.

I venture to guess that some energy is lost transmitting it from a power plant to my wall socket and thus to a battery in my car. Probably a lot.

True or no?

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3 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

I'm the furthest thing from an engineer. I know we have those types around here, so I'd love to hear about this.

I venture to guess that some energy is lost transmitting it from a power plant to my wall socket and thus to a battery in my car. Probably a lot.

True or no?

Also, don't forget the energy needed and pollution created to make the just the batteries alone.  I heard that is just another transfer from the end to the front of the production process.  You aren't eliminating anything and, as you said, those batteries actually make it worse.

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4 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

You know what else is getting filled up every 3rd day?

That's right - yur mom!

BOOM!

Solid.

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Boeing, Delta, AA, United....they might have a little to say about the elimination of air travel.

It's like she doesn't even know where she is.  Business runs america...Not congress, not us little dweebs.  

 

She will learn...the hard way, but she will learn

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Boeing, Delta, AA, United....they might have a little to say about the elimination of air travel.

It's like she doesn't even know where she is.  Business runs america...Not congress, not us little dweebs.  

 

She will learn...the hard way, but she will learn

Maybe she didn't think of this - hard to believe because she's so damn smart - but how are people supposed to get from, say, the US to England?  Or China?  Or India?  Or even Hawaii?

They plan on building a rail car that spans the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans?

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3 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Also, don't forget the energy needed and pollution created to make the just the batteries alone.  I heard that is just another transfer from the end to the front of the production process.  You aren't eliminating anything and, as you said, those batteries actually make it worse.

This is similar to the banning of plastic bags.  The environmental impacts of producing paper and cotton bags are just as bad if not worse. 

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1 minute ago, DonS said:

This is similar to the banning of plastic bags.  The environmental impacts of producing paper and cotton bags are just as bad if not worse. 

Remember, these same "green" do gooders also gave us the plastic bags to being with back in the 70s because it was supposed to be better for the environment:

Quote

Gordon Dancy is the person behind the high-density plastic grocery bag that is used today. Reports claim that Dancy was concerned about the destruction of trees to manufacture paper bags. At the time, he believed plastic bags would not only save money, but also be better for the environment.

 

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See, this is why it's important to slap your woman around at least every couple of days. At a minimum, sure as don't encourage her. Because these twats never understand.

We don't actually want to hear what you have to say or think. At this point, I really wish she would just shut the fuuck up.

 

Ain't nothing like a quick jab in the throat to take the spunk out of her vittles.

 

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23 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Also, don't forget the energy needed and pollution created to make the just the batteries alone.  I heard that is just another transfer from the end to the front of the production process.  You aren't eliminating anything and, as you said, those batteries actually make it worse.

The point of electric vehicles is not to reduce pollution, but rather to shift where it is generated. Instead of vehicles polluting Houston we can have people driving electric cars and generate the electricity in West texas via coal or natural gas.

 

However, I am a hypocrite, huge supporter of electric vehicles and I drive a hemi :lol:

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1 hour ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

In much of the country, yes.

I said that china is roughly the same size as the US, geographically? Well that's true. Except for the fact that 85% of the population lives in the eastern half. The Western half is populated by Muslims, who are currently in "reeducation camps.'

So while china likes to point at the electric busses and trains and sh!t, the REAL progress they are making in their cities air quality is moving the heavy industry out west to the empty part, turning it into a slave labor hellscape. They also harvest organs from those people.

We don't have the "luxury" of turning half of our country into an orwellian nightmare.

First we need to solve how to PRODUCE clean power (nuclear, whatever.) Then we can worry about running vehicles on it. Jmho. 

Well, at least half of America is fighting for the harvesting of organs like they do in China. But here, they want the fresh ones right out of the womb. None of that air poisoned crap.

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40 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

The point of electric vehicles is not to reduce pollution, but rather to shift where it is generated. Instead of vehicles polluting Houston we can have people driving electric cars and generate the electricity in West texas via coal or natural gas.

However, I am a hypocrite, huge supporter of electric vehicles and I drive a hemi :lol:

What?  This entire time we've been told that electric is better for the environment (i.e. reduce pollution).  What's the point of electric vehicles if they aren't going to save the environment?  Or if they are just going to pollute Location B instead of Location A?

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1 minute ago, sderk said:

Well, at least half of America is fighting for the harvesting of organs like they do in China. But here, they want the fresh ones right out of the womb. None of that air poisoned crap.

Do the hipsters call them "artisanal fresh organic" body parts? 

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6 minutes ago, DonS said:

Do the hipsters call them "artisanal fresh organic" body parts? 

Yes. Never touched by the light of day. Mushroomesque. Oui oui.

And I want to see a scaled down infrastructure model of what Cortez is planning along with every other freaking detail she desiring in her heart. There are a lot model railroad fans out there that want to see the layout for their basement. 

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21 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

What?  This entire time we've been told that electric is better for the environment (i.e. reduce pollution).  What's the point of electric vehicles if they aren't going to save the environment?  Or if they are just going to pollute Location B instead of Location A?

Well, it depends.  If your electricity is generated from fossil fuels, it is pretty much moving it from A to B.  In Arizona some of our electricity is nuclear and hydro, so it would be cleaner.  The dream I presume is a bunch of unicorns carrying electricity to you from renewable sources like solar and wind.  

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Some of you are forgetting Natural gas. Canada is huge on that stuff. Their military consumes a great deal of it. It's clean-burning, yada yada yada.

Basically, the rest of the world is hella further ahead of us when it comes to Natural gas. But hey, we can directional drill! (You know, when crude is 70 bucks or more per barrel)

I worked for two major companies who made huge commitments in natural gas. But the market just ain't happening here.

 

Anywho, the ideal situation is to use natural gas to generate electricity to use in your vehicles. Or at least that's one of the most ideal situations.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Well, it depends.  If your electricity is generated from fossil fuels, it is pretty much moving it from A to B.  In Arizona some of our electricity is nuclear and hydro, so it would be cleaner.  The dream I presume is a bunch of unicorns carrying electricity to you from renewable sources like solar and wind.  

But putting all the vehicles onto the electric grid would vastly increase demand.

Generally, hydro is already at full capacity. Sure, you could build more nuclear plants, but in most cases, fossil fuel will increase too. 

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1 minute ago, wiffleball said:

Some of you are forgetting Natural gas. Canada is huge on that stuff. Their military consumes a great deal of it. It's clean-burning, yada yada yada.

Basically, the rest of the world is hella further ahead of us when it comes to Natural gas. But hey, we can directional drill! (You know, when crude is 70 bucks or more per barrel)

I worked for two major companies who made huge commitments in natural gas. But the market just ain't happening here.

 

Anywho, the ideal situation is to use natural gas to generate electricity to use in your vehicles. Or at least that's one of the most ideal situations.

 

 

A lot of the taxis in china have liquid natural gas tanks in the trunk and run on that. I always wondered how well that works. And what happens when the crazy chink bastards rear end one another. 

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14 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Well, it depends.  If your electricity is generated from fossil fuels, it is pretty much moving it from A to B.  In Arizona some of our electricity is nuclear and hydro, so it would be cleaner.  The dream I presume is a bunch of unicorns carrying electricity to you from renewable sources like solar and wind.  

So basically, everyone can just plan on working from home. The home Cortez wants to own via political appropriation for the "health" and "welfare", of our country. She will get back to us on what that is when she thinks of it.

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2 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

A lot of the taxis in china have liquid natural gas tanks in the trunk and run on that. I always wondered how well that works. And what happens when the crazy chink bastards rear end one another. 

It would be Ford Pinto x100

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Just now, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

A lot of the taxis in china have liquid natural gas tanks in the trunk and run on that. I always wondered how well that works. And what happens when the crazy chink bastards rear end one another. 

LNG is pretty stable. Plus, to combat NIMBY, there are huge tanker ships that have been converted to degassification facilities. You literally degasify natural gas well offshore and then pump it up on shore as a far more stable product.

 

But Jesus Christmas, we just can't give that away here.

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