Coronavirus - Doomsday

[Hawkeye21 2,404]

Just now, TimmySmith said:

The sad fact of the politicizing of COVID, is we know exactly what we are dealing with, but we cannot implement ages old, common sense proven practices.  Our parents used to send kids to get Chicken Pox, it wasn't serious for kids and they would get immunity.  Then came a Chicken Pox vaccine, and now people are afraid of it.  Herd immunity would have been perfect here and protected to ones that need it.  Now, the weak are still in danger.  The communities getting ravaged the worst are those who had no outbreaks early on.

Do we know enough about the virus yet to rely on herd immunity?  Are we immune once we get it?

[Strike 5,603]

2 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

The sad fact of the politicizing of COVID, is we know exactly what we are dealing with, but we cannot implement ages old, common sense proven practices.  Our parents used to send kids to get Chicken Pox, it wasn't serious for kids and they would get immunity.  Then came a Chicken Pox vaccine, and now people are afraid of it.  Herd immunity would have been perfect here and protected to ones that need it.  Now, the weak are still in danger.  The communities getting ravaged the worst are those who had no outbreaks early on.

You think we should have sent old people to Covid parties to achieve Herd immunity?  Thanks Cuomo!!!!

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Do we know enough about the virus yet to rely on herd immunity?  Are we immune once we get it?

If we aren't immune, then a vaccine would be useless.  No? 

[edjr 6,608]

4 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Umm... CNN, really ed ? 

https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases-tied-to-a-maine-wedding-reception-hit-147-with-3-deaths/19273954/

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-a-small-wedding-in-maine-became-a-deadly-covid-19-superspreader

https://people.com/health/coronavirus-outbreak-linked-to-maine-wedding-leads-to-147-new-cases-3-deaths/

https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/147-coronavirus-cases-3-deaths-linked-maine-wedding/66SG34ZDGFE4XA57FKRED6CCGA/

 

FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS!!! ALL FAKE NEWS!!!

[Hawkeye21 2,404]

Just now, TimmySmith said:

If we aren't immune, then a vaccine would be useless.  No? 

I just don't have the feeling that we completely know what we're dealing with when it comes to this virus.  There so much misinformation out there that it's hard to know what is actually going on.

[drobeski 3,061]

2 minutes ago, edjr said:

https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases-tied-to-a-maine-wedding-reception-hit-147-with-3-deaths/19273954/

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-a-small-wedding-in-maine-became-a-deadly-covid-19-superspreader

https://people.com/health/coronavirus-outbreak-linked-to-maine-wedding-leads-to-147-new-cases-3-deaths/

https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/147-coronavirus-cases-3-deaths-linked-maine-wedding/66SG34ZDGFE4XA57FKRED6CCGA/

 

FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS!!! ALL FAKE NEWS!!!

Another motorcycle accident? 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

I just don't have the feeling that we completely know what we're dealing with when it comes to this virus.  There so much misinformation out there that it's hard to know what is actually going on.

But still, vaccines are based in providing immunity.  And we have heard from both sides about vaccines, so don't buy any fear nonsense about about not being immune after you've had it.  Science, you know. 

[drobeski 3,061]

On 9/6/2020 at 9:39 AM, drobeski said:

Is this something? Covid-19 test kits in 2018 ? 

https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/ALL/year/2018/tradeflow/Exports/partner/WLD/nomen/h5/product/300215

Bump

[edjr 6,608]

FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS!! THEY ARE ALL OUT TO GET US.. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[drobeski 3,061]

Just now, edjr said:

FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS!! THEY ARE ALL OUT TO GET US.. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Simmer down kid. 

[Strike 5,603]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I just don't have the feeling that we completely know what we're dealing with when it comes to this virus.  There so much misinformation out there that it's hard to know what is actually going on.

It's really not that hard.  The scientific community knows a lot about this virus.  The misinformation you speak of is due to the MSM.  But I know you don't believe they have a bias or ulterior motive. 

[Hawkeye21 2,404]

Just now, Strike said:

It's really not that hard.  The scientific community knows a lot about this virus.  The misinformation you speak of is due to the MSM.  But I know you don't believe they have a bias or ulterior motive. 

Of course I believe they have a bias, that's why I can't trust most of the info that's been out there.

[drobeski 3,061]

Ed, fake news ? Or is this the kind of news we stick our fingers in our ears, scream loudly and pretend it doesn't exist ? DID CNN COVER IT ED ? WOW I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS TOO!

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/514915-is-us-covid-19-death-count-inflated

On August 26, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a report showing that in 94 percent of the roughly 180,000 deaths that have been attributed to COVID-19, "on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death."

As the CDC report notes, "For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned."

In other words, 94 percent of Americans who have died from coronavirus from the week ending February 1, 2020 to the week ending August 22, 2020 had, on average, almost three comorbidities that played a role in their death.

[Strike 5,603]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Of course I believe they have a bias, that's why I can't trust most of the info that's been out there.

Learn how to think for yourself, Lemming.  HTH.

[Hawkeye21 2,404]

Just now, Strike said:

Learn how to think for yourself, Lemming.  HTH.

I do.  That's literally what I'm talking about.

[Strike 5,603]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

I do.  That's literally what I'm talking about.

You've yet to demonstrate that trait on this forum. 

[Hawkeye21 2,404]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

You've yet to demonstrate that trait on this forum. 

Your opinion has been noted.

[Strike 5,603]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

You're opinion has been noted.

YOUR

[Hawkeye21 2,404]

Just now, Strike said:

YOUR

Thanks.  I hate doing that.

[drobeski 3,061]

30 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Ed, fake news ? Or is this the kind of news we stick our fingers in our ears, scream loudly and pretend it doesn't exist ? DID CNN COVER IT ED ? WOW I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS TOO!

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/514915-is-us-covid-19-death-count-inflated

On August 26, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a report showing that in 94 percent of the roughly 180,000 deaths that have been attributed to COVID-19, "on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death."

As the CDC report notes, "For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned."

In other words, 94 percent of Americans who have died from coronavirus from the week ending February 1, 2020 to the week ending August 22, 2020 had, on average, almost three comorbidities that played a role in their death.

Ha! Nailed it!

[edjr 6,608]

The hill, really? 

 

[MTSkiBum 1,621]

7 minutes ago, edjr said:

The hill, really? 

 

 

The data is correct, however it is taken out of context in that article.

For example pneumonia, heart attacks, and strokes are examples of commodities in the study, which of course is true, that is how coronavirus kills you. It causes you to get pneumonia and/or blood clotting issues and then causes further damage such as heart failure, kidney failure, etc. 

This is why someone with coronavirus typically has multiple other causes of death in addition to coronavirus.

[edjr 6,608]

2 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

The data is correct, however it is taken out of context in that article.

For example pneumonia, heart attacks, and strokes are examples of commodities in the study, which of course is true, that is how coronavirus kills you. It causes you to get pneumonia and/or blood clotting issues and then causes further damage such as heart failure, kidney failure, etc. 

 

Correct. "covid" like "aids" doesn't kill the person. it just weakens the immune system for something else to do the dirty work

[TimmySmith 2,782]

3 minutes ago, edjr said:

Correct. "covid" like "aids" doesn't kill the person. it just weakens the immune system for something else to do the dirty work

You mean, like the flu.  And other viruses.     

[edjr 6,608]

4 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

You mean, like the flu.  And other viruses.     

Weird, right?    EVEN ONE DEATH IS TOO MANY!

[nobody 2,694]

1 hour ago, drobeski said:

Ed, fake news ? Or is this the kind of news we stick our fingers in our ears, scream loudly and pretend it doesn't exist ? DID CNN COVER IT ED ? WOW I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS TOO!

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/514915-is-us-covid-19-death-count-inflated

On August 26, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a report showing that in 94 percent of the roughly 180,000 deaths that have been attributed to COVID-19, "on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death."

As the CDC report notes, "For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned."

In other words, 94 percent of Americans who have died from coronavirus from the week ending February 1, 2020 to the week ending August 22, 2020 had, on average, almost three comorbidities that played a role in their death.

To be fair, if there are 2.6 comorbidities, that doesn't mean you can't count those deaths.  I would suggest counting it as 0.28 COVID deaths.  Just like you can't claim those are all covid deaths, you can't claim covid had 0 to do with it either.

[edjr 6,608]

12 minutes ago, nobody said:

To be fair, if there are 2.6 comorbidities, that doesn't mean you can't count those deaths.  I would suggest counting it as 0.28 COVID deaths.  Just like you can't claim those are all covid deaths, you can't claim covid had 0 to do with it either.

Maybe November 4th we will start to get some truth.  

[drobeski 3,061]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

To be fair, if there are 2.6 comorbidities, that doesn't mean you can't count those deaths.  I would suggest counting it as 0.28 COVID deaths.  Just like you can't claim those are all covid deaths, you can't claim covid had 0 to do with it either.

What numbers have the media been blasting st us since the start ? 

What unnecessary and life changing measures were taken because of these false numbers ? 

Protect the vulnerable,  let others live their normal lives is the point. 

[jerryskids 6,854]

2 hours ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

The data is correct, however it is taken out of context in that article.

For example pneumonia, heart attacks, and strokes are examples of commodities in the study, which of course is true, that is how coronavirus kills you. It causes you to get pneumonia and/or blood clotting issues and then causes further damage such as heart failure, kidney failure, etc. 

This is why someone with coronavirus typically has multiple other causes of death in addition to coronavirus.

 

1 hour ago, nobody said:

To be fair, if there are 2.6 comorbidities, that doesn't mean you can't count those deaths.  I would suggest counting it as 0.28 COVID deaths.  Just like you can't claim those are all covid deaths, you can't claim covid had 0 to do with it either.

I agree with nobody (the poster); the answer is somewhere between 200K and 6K.  Pneumonia brought on by Covid, yes.  Cancer with a positive Covid test within 60 days of death, probably not.

I reiterate a point I made earlier:  there is no way that the U.S., with the best acute care medical capabilities in the world (abstract away insurance and other systemic crap), and rallying around this thing like we have been, has ~25% of the entire world's Covid deaths.  Either 150 countries are counting it wrong, or we are.  

[edjr 6,608]

Just now, drobeski said:

What numbers have the media been blasting st us since the start ? 

What unnecessary and life changing measures were taken because of these false numbers ? 

Protect the vulnerable,  let others live their normal lives is the point. 

This is America. I say let the vulnerable live how they want. They know the risks. 

[Strike 5,603]

4 minutes ago, edjr said:

This is America. I say let the vulnerable live how they want. They know the risks. 

Some of them can't "live how they want."  They live in nursing homes.  So, a reasonable precaution would be to set policy the exact opposite of whatever Governor Cuomo does with regard to nursing homes in order to protect those who live in them.

[jerryskids 6,854]

Interesting article about Africa being spared the Covid.  Pretty much the entire continent. Of course, they pop HCQ like pez candy to fight malaria, which doesn't occur to the struggling scientists.  

 

Quote

 

The pandemic appears to have spared Africa so far. Scientists are struggling to explain why

Although Africa reported its millionth official COVID-19 case last week, it seems to have weathered the pandemic relatively well so far, with fewer than one confirmed case for every thousand people and just 23,000 deaths so far. Yet several antibody surveys suggest far more Africans have been infected with the coronavirus—a discrepancy that is puzzling scientists around the continent. “We do not have an answer,” says immunologist Sophie Uyoga at the Kenya Medical Research Institute–Wellcome Trust Research Programme.

After testing more than 3000 blood donors, Uyoga and colleagues estimated in a preprint last month that one in 20 Kenyans aged 15 to 64—or 1.6 million people—has antibodies to SARS-CoV-2, an indication of past infection. That would put Kenya on a par with Spain in mid-May when that country was descending from its coronavirus peak and had 27,000 official COVID-19 deaths. Kenya’s official toll stood at 100 when the study ended. And Kenya’s hospitals are not reporting huge numbers of people with COVID-19 symptoms.

Other antibody studies in Africa have yielded similarly surprising findings. From a survey of 500 asymptomatic health care workers in Blantyre, Malawi, immunologist Kondwani Jambo of the Malawi–Liverpool Wellcome Trust Clinical Research Programme and colleagues concluded that up to 12.3% of them had been exposed to the coronavirus. Based on those findings and mortality ratios for COVID-19 elsewhere, they estimated that the reported number of deaths in Blantyre at the time, 17, was eight times lower than expected.

Scientists who surveyed about 10,000 people in the northeastern cities of Nampula and Pemba in Mozambique found antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in 3% to 10% of participants, depending on their occupation; market vendors had the highest rates, followed by health workers. Yet in Nampula, a city of approximately 750,000, a mere 300 infections had been confirmed at the time. Mozambique only has 16 confirmed COVID-19 deaths. Yap Boum, a microbiologist and epidemiologist with Epicentre Africa, the research and training arm of Doctors Without Borders, says he found a high prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in people from Cameroon as well, a result that remains unpublished.

So what explains the huge gap between antibody data on the one hand and the official case and death counts on the other? Part of the reason may be that Africa misses many more cases than other parts of the world because it has far less testing capacity. Kenya tests about one in every 10,000 inhabitants daily for active SARS-CoV-2 infections, one-tenth of the rate in Spain or Canada. Nigeria, the continent’s most populous nation, tests one out of every 50,000 people per day. Even many people who die from COVID-19 may not get a proper diagnosis.

But in that case, you would still expect an overall rise in mortality, which Kenya has not seen, says pathologist Anne Barasa of the University of Nairobi who did not participate in the country’s coronavirus antibody study. (In South Africa, by contrast, the number of excess natural deaths reported between 6 May and 28 July exceeded its official COVID-19 death toll by a factor of four to one.) Uyoga cautions that the pandemic has hamstrung Kenya’s mortality surveillance system, however, as fieldworkers have been unable to move around.

Marina Pollán of the Carlos III Health Institute in Madrid, who led Spain’s antibody survey, says Africa’s youthfulness may protect it. Spain’s median age is 45; in Kenya and Malawi, it’s 20 and 18, respectively. Young people around the world are far less likely to get severely ill or die from the virus. And the population in Kenya’s cities, where the pandemic first took hold, skews even younger than the country as a whole, says Thumbi Mwangi, an epidemiologist at the University of Nairobi. The number of severe and fatal cases “may go higher when the disease has moved to the rural areas where we have populations with advanced age,” he says.

Jambo is exploring the hypothesis that Africans have had more exposure to other coronaviruses that cause little more than colds in humans, which may provide some defense against COVID-19. Another possibility is that regular exposure to malaria or other infectious diseases could prime the immune system to fight new pathogens, including SARS-CoV-2, Boum adds. Barasa, on the other hand, suspects genetic factors protect the Kenyan population from severe disease.

More antibody surveys may help fill out the picture. A French-funded study will test thousands for antibodies in Guinea, Senegal, Benin, Ghana, Cameroon, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo; results are expected by October. The studies will ensure good representation across populations, says Jean-François Etard from France’s Research Institute for Development, who is leading the study in Guinea jointly with a local scientist. And 13 labs in 11 African countries are participating in a global SARS-CoV-2 antibody survey coordinated by the World Health Organization.

South Africa, meanwhile, plans to conduct a number of serological studies both in COVID-19 hotspots and the general population, says Lynn Morris, who leads the country’s National Institute for Communicable Diseases. She notes that antibody prevalence found in the study will likely be an underestimate of true infection rates, given that the virus doesn’t induce antibodies in some people and that antibody levels wane over time.

If tens of millions of Africans have already been infected, that raises the question of whether the continent should try for “herd immunity” without a vaccine, Boum says—the controversial idea of letting the virus run its course to allow the population to become immune, perhaps while shielding the most vulnerable. That might be preferable over control measures that cripple economies and could harm public health more in the long run. “Maybe Africa can afford it,” given its apparent low death to infection ratio, Boum says. ”We need to dig into that.” 

But Glenda Gray, president of the South African Medical Research Council, says it could be dangerous to base COVID-19 policies on antibody surveys. It’s not at all clear whether antibodies actually confer immunity, and if so, how long it lasts, Gray notes—in which case, she asks, “What do these numbers really tell us?”

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-why#

[Strike 5,603]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Interesting article about Africa being spared the Covid.  Pretty much the entire continent. Of course, they pop HCQ like pez candy to fight malaria, which doesn't occur to the struggling scientists.  

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-why#

My guess is it's because they don't have a lot of advanced medicine in much of Africa so they have immunities we don't because we're not exposed to some stuff they are on a daily basis.

[MTSkiBum 1,621]

18 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Interesting article about Africa being spared the Covid.  Pretty much the entire continent. Of course, they pop HCQ like pez candy to fight malaria, which doesn't occur to the struggling scientists.  

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-why#

 

From your article, the average and median age in africa is extremely young and covid-19 does not effect 20 year old kids.

 

Spain’s median age is 45; in Kenya and Malawi, it’s 20 and 18, respectively. Young people around the world are far less likely to get severely ill or die from the virus. And the population in Kenya’s cities, where the pandemic first took hold, skews even younger than the country as a whole, says Thumbi Mwangi, an epidemiologist at the University of Nairobi. The number of severe and fatal cases “may go higher when the disease has moved to the rural areas where we have populations with advanced age,” he says.

 

 

Also, they do not take Chlorquine or HCQ for malaria in Africa much anymore. If i remember correctly, it is mainly only used in India. I have not looked this up in the last 5 months, so my memory may be fuzzy. Search results for HCQ is difficult for obvious reasons.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3820326/

 

[edjr 6,608]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

Some of them can't "live how they want."  They live in nursing homes.  So, a reasonable precaution would be to set policy the exact opposite of whatever Governor Cuomo does with regard to nursing homes in order to protect those who live in them.

True. Many people are forced to stay in nursing homes by their evil, selfish children. Tony Soprano did it to his mother

[MTSkiBum 1,621]

16 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

I agree with nobody (the poster); the answer is somewhere between 200K and 6K.  Pneumonia brought on by Covid, yes.  Cancer with a positive Covid test within 60 days of death, probably not.

I reiterate a point I made earlier:  there is no way that the U.S., with the best acute care medical capabilities in the world (abstract away insurance and other systemic crap), and rallying around this thing like we have been, has ~25% of the entire world's Covid deaths.  Either 150 countries are counting it wrong, or we are.  

 

Both of my surviving grandparents are decades long cancer survivors, and one of my deceased grandparents beat cancer in his 60's and lived 20 more years(sepsis got him).

 

It is tough to say with any certainty anytime there is cancer listed as a comorbidity. It could have been people like my grandparents who go on to beat cancer and would have lived for 20+ years if they had not gotten coronavirus, or it could be other cases of cancer like if Rholio caught it in his final month.

We do not have the data to tell.

 

It will be years before they finally figure out the true case fatality rate and a better estimate of the total deaths caused.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

Weren’t they saying Houston was running out of icu beds and the hospitals were going to be overrun a month or so ago? Did that ever happen? 

[drobeski 3,061]

34 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Interesting article about Africa being spared the Covid.  Pretty much the entire continent. Of course, they pop HCQ like pez candy to fight malaria, which doesn't occur to the struggling scientists.  

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-why#

So wait,  the virus isn't racist ? CNN told me different. 

[drobeski 3,061]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Weren’t they saying Houston was running out of icu beds and the hospitals were going to be overrun a month or so ago? Did that ever happen? 

They Tick Tocked them away.

[drobeski 3,061]

29 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

From your article, the average and median age in africa is extremely young and covid-19 does not effect 20 year old kids.

 

Spain’s median age is 45; in Kenya and Malawi, it’s 20 and 18, respectively. Young people around the world are far less likely to get severely ill or die from the virus. And the population in Kenya’s cities, where the pandemic first took hold, skews even younger than the country as a whole, says Thumbi Mwangi, an epidemiologist at the University of Nairobi. The number of severe and fatal cases “may go higher when the disease has moved to the rural areas where we have populations with advanced age,” he says.

 

Cool schools should be open and the kids should be playing their high school sports.  Thanks for confirming.