H.R. 1

[Fireballer 2,382]

How do we maintain accountability of  who's supposed to vote if we never purge voter rolls or require ID?  

[Strike 3,978]

Well, I think it's unlikely this thing passes the senate.   If it does, it will surely be challenged as unconstitutional.  However, given what happened with the last election the thing to do if they actually cared about America would have been for both sides to get together and find an acceptable, bipartisan set of standards to impose on states.  Instead, the Dems are using this as an opportunity to try to enact a set of rules they believe will favor them going forward.  It's despicable.

[Fireballer 2,382]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

if they actually cared about America would have been for both sides to get together and find an acceptable, bipartisan set of standards to impose on states.  

I think legitimizing elections is the top priority.  How do we proceed when it's so obvious our electoral process got aborted in 2020?

[5-Points 2,729]

It's HR 1. The House's biggest priority is fixing all future elections. They saw that their corruption worked in the face of a "pandemic", now they want to make it permanent. 

[Fireballer 2,382]

1 hour ago, 5-Points said:

It's HR 1. The House's biggest priority is fixing all future elections. They saw that their corruption worked in the face of a "pandemic", now they want to make it permanent. 

This should frighten everyone more than and book ban, mask mandate, or minimum wage law.  It's truly our future at stake.

[5-Points 2,729]

On 3/5/2021 at 6:37 PM, Fireballer said:

This should frighten everyone more than and book ban, mask mandate, or minimum wage law.  It's truly our future at stake.

Anybody who values election integrity will have a problem with this. 

Anybody who supports this is an idiot or a partisan hack or both. 

[dogcows 1,029]

2 hours ago, 5-Points said:

It's HR 1. The House's biggest priority is fixing all future elections. They saw that their corruption worked in the face of a "pandemic", now they want to make it permanent. 

Well they do need to be fixed. We need a system that allows everybody to easily and securely vote. There’s no reason for long lines to vote, people ending up at the wrong precinct because the maps got redrawn since the last vote, etc.

Some states like Colorado have had mail-in voting for years. They have everybody’s name and address on file and send out the ballots on a schedule. I think if everybody did it that way, it would be easiest and most reliable.

Every state has its own laws and many states change them from year to year. A national standard wouldn’t be a bad idea.

[dogcows 1,029]

3 hours ago, Fireballer said:

I think legitimizing elections is the top priority.  How do we proceed when it's so obvious our electoral process got aborted in 2020?

I think elections were absolutely legitimized in the strongest way possible in 2020. Despite 50+ court challenges across many states, the election officials from each state, Republican and Democrat alike, stood by their results. Only the most extreme kool-aid drinkers still think there’s some secret fraud that somehow Trump and his lawyers just couldn’t find.

[5-Points 2,729]

14 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Well they do need to be fixed. We need a system that allows everybody to easily and securely vote. There’s no reason for long lines to vote, people ending up at the wrong precinct because the maps got redrawn since the last vote, etc.

Some states like Colorado have had mail-in voting for years. They have everybody’s name and address on file and send out the ballots on a schedule. I think if everybody did it that way, it would be easiest and most reliable.

Every state has its own laws and many states change them from year to year. A national standard wouldn’t be a bad idea.

The national standard should be:

1) show up in person 

2) show valid I.D.

3) cast ballot 

4) absentee ballots for deployed service members and a very small group of registered voters with extenuating circumstances.

5) voter rolls purged every 5 years. 

 

[dogcows 1,029]

Just now, 5-Points said:

The national standard should be:

1) show up in person 

2) show valid I.D.

3) cast ballot 

4) absentee ballots for deployed service members and a very small group of registered voters with extenuating circumstances.

5) voter rolls purged every 6 years. 

 

So Colorado and Oregon can’t continue using vote-by-mail like they have for many years? Why? As far as I know, they have very secure elections there because of the mail-in aspect.

I wonder why we haven’t figured out a secure way to vote on the Internet yet. I mean, people do their banking on the internet, with thousands and millions of dollars involved. We can’t do something secure online for voting?

[5-Points 2,729]

5 minutes ago, dogcows said:

So Colorado and Oregon can’t continue using vote-by-mail like they have for many years? Why? As far as I know, they have very secure elections there because of the mail-in aspect.

I wonder why we haven’t figured out a secure way to vote on the Internet yet. I mean, people do their banking on the internet, with thousands and millions of dollars involved. We can’t do something secure online for voting?

I'm all for state's rights. You suggested a national standard. I gave you my criteria for a national standard. 

I changed my voter roll purge to every 5 years. So we would need to re-register after each presidential election but before the mid-terms. 

Seems like a fair compromise. 

[Fireballer 2,382]

28 minutes ago, dogcows said:

I think elections were absolutely legitimized in the strongest way possible in 2020. 

Yeah, 2020 went off without a hitch

 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Hijack the Republic 1.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

11 hours ago, Fireballer said:

This should frighten everyone more than and book ban, mask mandate, or minimum wage law.  It's truly our future at stake.

Oh its over. America is well and truly focked. It'll limp along for another generation or so, but the fall has happened. 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

They are keeping careful track of those who get vaccinated so they can screw those who don't get it, but they can't require I.d. to vote. 

[dogcows 1,029]

10 hours ago, Fireballer said:

Yeah, 2020 went off without a hitch

 

There was a lot of whining from the losers, but considering the intense scrutiny on the elections, and the fact that it unearthed no widespread fraud, I’d say we should all feel pretty confident in our election system. Not sure why Georgia and other states are trying to change it (actually of course we know - GOPs in Georgia don’t want black people to vote).

[dogcows 1,029]

48 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

They are keeping careful track of those who get vaccinated so they can screw those who don't get it, but they can't require I.d. to vote. 

If you follow the voter ID laws, you’ll see it’s not just the ID requirement, it’s the way the ID requirement is handled.

Texas: College ID - not valid to vote. Gun permits - valid to vote. Gee, I wonder what group of people they are favoring with these laws? College students are what, 2-to-1 voting for Dems, and gun owners are probably 3-to-1 for Republicans at least…

And the latest ones: take away Sunday voting, the most popular day for black people to vote, and make it a crime to give somebody a glass of water while they’re waiting in line to vote. They LITERALLY can’t be more obvious about the voter suppression. We already know they put more polling places in white neighborhoods than black ones, causing the lines in the first place, then they punish people on top of the existing punishment. FOCK them.

They can play dumb about it all they want, but that is how these “voting security” laws are being written.

[5-Points 2,729]

8 minutes ago, dogcows said:

If you follow the voter ID laws, you’ll see it’s not just the ID requirement, it’s the way the ID requirement is handled.

Texas: College ID - not valid to vote. Gun permits - valid to vote. Gee, I wonder what group of people they are favoring with these laws? College students are what, 2-to-1 voting for Dems, and gun owners are probably 3-to-1 for Republicans at least…

And the latest ones: take away Sunday voting, the most popular day for black people to vote, and make it a crime to give somebody a glass of water while they’re waiting in line to vote. They LITERALLY can’t be more obvious about the voter suppression. We already know they put more polling places in white neighborhoods than black ones, causing the lines in the first place, then they punish people on top of the existing punishment. FOCK them.

They can play dumb about it all they want, but that is how these “voting security” laws are being written.

Or maybe it's because we issue college ID's to foreigners here to study but we don't issue gun permits to foreigners here to buy guns. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

1 hour ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Oh its over. America is well and truly focked. It'll limp along for another generation or so, but the fall has happened. 

It would not be just America.   Imagine the US nuclear stockpile in the hands of rusty.  And trust me, China and Russia are fully aware how deranged the democrats are.  THEY won't let it happen. 

The reality is that the democrats might be able to de-unify the nation to the extent that it completely destabilizes, but foreign powers arent going to stand for that and will step in to stop crazy people from getting our nukes. 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

If you follow the voter ID laws, you’ll see it’s not just the ID requirement, it’s the way the ID requirement is handled.

Texas: College ID - not valid to vote. Gun permits - valid to vote. Gee, I wonder what group of people they are favoring with these laws? College students are what, 2-to-1 voting for Dems, and gun owners are probably 3-to-1 for Republicans at least…

And the latest ones: take away Sunday voting, the most popular day for black people to vote, and make it a crime to give somebody a glass of water while they’re waiting in line to vote. They LITERALLY can’t be more obvious about the voter suppression. We already know they put more polling places in white neighborhoods than black ones, causing the lines in the first place, then they punish people on top of the existing punishment. FOCK them.

They can play dumb about it all they want, but that is how these “voting security” laws are being written.

Duh, College students are not necessarily Texas residents.  Gun owners with ID are.  And that covers the only real example you have. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

13 hours ago, 5-Points said:

The national standard should be:

1) show up in person 

2) show valid I.D.

3) cast ballot 

4) absentee ballots for deployed service members and a very small group of registered voters with extenuating circumstances.

5) voter rolls purged every 5 years. 

 

Yep.

[dogcows 1,029]

13 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

Duh, College students are not necessarily Texas residents.  Gun owners with ID are.  And that covers the only real example you have. 

Do you even understand how the ID law works? You need to be on the voting list to begin with. You’re not proving your citizenship at that moment. A gun license or driver’s license is NOT proof of citizenship… go ahead and try using it to secure a passport. People with green cards can get a driver’s license too; they can’t vote though. You’re matching yourself to a list of registered voters. There is no reason to exclude a Texas state-owned university ID. If a foreigner shows up to vote with their college ID, they will check the list and the person won’t be on it and they will send the person away; the photo ID is simply to verify your identity. This restriction is because they want gun owners to vote, and don’t want students to vote. Nobody is fooled. The ID requirement is arbitrary.
 

“Texas has no driver's license offices in almost a third of the state's counties. Meanwhile, close to 15 percent of Hispanic Texans living in counties without driver's license offices don't have ID. A little less than a quarter of driver's license offices have extended hours, which would make it tough for many working voters to find a place and time to acquire the IDs. Despite this, the Texas legislature struck an amendment that would have reimbursed low-income voters for travel expenses when going to apply for a voter ID, and killed another that would have required offices to remain open until 7:00 p.m. or later on just one weekday, and four or more hours at least two weekends.”

There is no evidence that these laws make the vote more secure, but there is evidence that they make it harder for students and minorities to vote. Which is exactly what the GOP wants.

 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Dogcuck is upset that people can't use the Chuck E Cheese Birthday club card as voter ID.

Funny how you need ID to cash your government check, but suddenly people are too poor to have one when it comes to voting. 

[edjr 5,566]

All you s continuing to think your vote matters. Sad

[dogcows 1,029]

6 hours ago, TimmySmith said:

Dogcuck is upset that people can't use the Chuck E Cheese Birthday club card as voter ID.

Funny how you need ID to cash your government check, but suddenly people are too poor to have one when it comes to voting. 

I don’t see why the need for ID suddenly became a thing starting in 2006. We managed to have lots of elections for over 200 years without it, but now it’s an absolute necessity? There is no empirical evidence that voter fraud occurs often enough to have any plausible impact on elections. But for some reason, people on the right swear by it now? Oh wait, it turns out minorities were less likely to have an ID. GOP wonks figured this out and passed laws hoping it would reduce minority voting. Then they sold a bill of goods to everybody that it was about voter fraud. It never was.

Actual voter fraud numbers in Texas for example: Four cases of fraud for 72 million votes cast suggests the incidence of Texas voter fraud was about 1 in 18 million.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/mar/17/greg-abbott/light-match-greg-abbotts-claim-about-rampant-voter/

If a politician says they’re passing a law to fight “voter fraud,” well you know they are lying.

[Dizkneelande 839]

16 hours ago, edjr said:

All you s continuing to think your vote matters. Sad

If it mattered they wouldn’t let us do it 

[MDC 5,891]

I think Election Day should be a national holiday and people should be able to vote online. I’d love voting to be mandatory with a “none of the above” option.

You'd think if voting fraud were so obvious and widespread in 2020 Trump’s super team of lawyers would have produced some credible evidence.  

[5-Points 2,729]

Online voting is a non-starter. 

The Russians would hack the whole thing. 

 

[DonS 3,067]

3 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

Online voting is a non-starter. 

The Russians would hack the whole thing. 

 

Claims of "Russian interference" would only get invoked if a Republican wins. Otherwise the process is 100% secure. 

[5-Points 2,729]

7 minutes ago, DonS said:

Claims of "Russian interference" would only get invoked if a Republican wins. Otherwise the process is 100% secure. 

Of course. Only a partisan hack would claim otherwise. 

[dogcows 1,029]

5 hours ago, 5-Points said:

Of course. Only a partisan hack would claim otherwise. 

Russian interference in the 2016 election wasn’t about hacking voting machines or printing fake ballots. It was about coordinated disinformation campaigns, and stealing information from a campaign’s computer systems. This is well documented.

The security of the ballots is a completely separate issue. And in 2020, dozens of cases were brought alleging insecure, bogus, or faked ballots. They all failed because the evidence clearly showed none of that happened. It was a free and fair election, and Trump lost.

If Republicans want to win next time, they should focus on issues people care about instead of falsely accusing the other side of cheating. Dems kicked Hillary to the curb and focused intensely on states they lost in 2016. Now Biden is pres. If Repubs want a 2024 win, they should take a lesson or two from that.

[Utilit99 4,099]

16 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Russian interference in the 2016 election

That was really time well spent by the democrats rather than doing anything else for 4 years. 

[Fireballer 2,382]

23 minutes ago, dogcows said:

They all failed because the evidence clearly showed none of that happened. 

Really?  Can you break down the cases where they actually presented evidence?

[5-Points 2,729]

23 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Russian interference in the 2016 election wasn’t about hacking voting machines or printing fake ballots. It was about coordinated disinformation campaigns, and stealing information from a campaign’s computer systems. This is well documented.

 

So it was about "the Russians" doing what the democrats do every election? Got it. 

Also, why did Nancy Pelosi claim that "the Russians hacked the whole thing" if all they did was spread disinformation and steal information?

[jerryskids 5,206]

14 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Russian interference in the 2016 election wasn’t about hacking voting machines or printing fake ballots. It was about coordinated disinformation campaigns, and stealing information from a campaign’s computer systems. This is well documented.

The security of the ballots is a completely separate issue. And in 2020, dozens of cases were brought alleging insecure, bogus, or faked ballots. They all failed because the evidence clearly showed none of that happened. It was a free and fair election, and Trump lost.

If Republicans want to win next time, they should focus on issues people care about instead of falsely accusing the other side of cheating. Dems kicked Hillary to the curb and focused intensely on states they lost in 2016. Now Biden is pres. If Repubs want a 2024 win, they should take a lesson or two from that.

Republicans lost because shotgunning out mail-in ballots enabled a bunch of second-handers to vote who were otherwise too lazy to vote.  That pushed things over the edge, unless you believe 80M people were enthralled with a doddering old fool with dementia.  If mail-in stays, the debate of topics or philosophies is over — elections will become middle-school campaigns, with battles to offer more free stuff.  As a bonus, people are leaving large blue states in droves because liberal policies are destroying the cities, but those idiots are voting for liberals in their new states.  America had a nice run.   

[MDC 5,891]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

Republicans lost because shotgunning out mail-in ballots enabled a bunch of second-handers to vote who were otherwise too lazy to vote.  That pushed things over the edge, unless you believe 80M people were enthralled with a doddering old fool with dementia.  If mail-in stays, the debate of topics or philosophies is over — elections will become middle-school campaigns, with battles to offer more free stuff.  As a bonus, people are leaving large blue states in droves because liberal policies are destroying the cities, but those idiots are voting for liberals in their new states.  America had a nice run.   

Jerry is right: Biden won because high turnout has a well known Democrat bias. We have to make it harder for people to vote so this never happens again.  

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,584]

So Dogsh1t says disinformation is not ok yet supports BLM and joe Biden.  

[jerryskids 5,206]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

Jerry is right: Biden won because high turnout has a well known Democrat bias. We have to make it harder for people to vote so this never happens again.  

I fundamentally disagree with you and have said as much here multiple times.  You want mandatory voting; I want to restrict voting.  If there were a way to logistically do it, I might tie voting to passing say a basic civics tests.  Or perhaps weight your vote based on the test score.  The premise of “voting is a right” was established at a time when voters were knowledgeable and invested in the ramifications of their votes.  With that right comes a responsibility.   

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

11 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I fundamentally disagree with you and have said as much here multiple times.  You want mandatory voting; I want to restrict voting.  If there were a way to logistically do it, I might tie voting to passing say a basic civics tests.  Or perhaps weight your vote based on the test score.  The premise of “voting is a right” was established at a time when voters were knowledgeable and invested in the ramifications of their votes.  With that right comes a responsibility.   

To quote Winston Churchill, Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Let's be real... I consider myself a fairly intelligent educated man. I have two degrees, one in law and one in political science.

That said, there are many issues that I'll frankly admit I have no business weighing in on. International trade deals, for example.

Whenever I hear some high school dropout that lives in assisted housing pontificating about things like nafta or tarp or a host of other issues, I roll my eyes.

But today, it's even worse. He who controls the media (both social and traditional) controls all. Anyone who isn't trying hard to ignore it can plainly see how the media buried Trump, twisting quotes out of context, blasting him for things they ignore under Obama and Biden. 

For four years they were bound and determined to hang the racist label on him, and it worked. Ask people what he did or said that makes him racist... They have no good response.

At this point, we are an oligarchy. The dozen guys who control the media, and the couple of dozen billionaires, they rule this country. The democracy is just a dog and pony show. 

[MDC 5,891]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

I fundamentally disagree with you and have said as much here multiple times.  You want mandatory voting; I want to restrict voting.  If there were a way to logistically do it, I might tie voting to passing say a basic civics tests.  Or perhaps weight your vote based on the test score.  The premise of “voting is a right” was established at a time when voters were knowledgeable and invested in the ramifications of their votes.  With that right comes a responsibility.   

The overwhelming majority of supposedly “educated” voters are partisan drones who get their received ideas from CNN and FOX. I’ll take my chances with the unwashed masses.