SCOTUS - Religious cases.

[Mike Honcho 4,105]

 

Quote

 

Supreme Court rules Maine's tuition assistance program must cover religious schools

 

The U.S. Supreme Court handed school choice advocates a major victory on Tuesday.

By a 6-3 vote along ideological lines, the court opened the door further for those seeking taxpayer funding for religious schools.

In its clearest statement to date, the court said that if a state uses taxpayer money to pay for students attending nonreligious private schools, it must also use taxpayer funds to pay for attendance at religious schools. For all practical purposes, the decision thus invalidates provisions in 37 state constitutions that ban the direct or indirect use of taxpayer money in religious schools.

 

 

Quote

 

Supreme Court rules school district cannot prohibit high school football coach's prayers on field

 

The Supreme Court said Monday that a Washington state school district violated the First Amendment rights of a high school football coach when he lost his job for praying at the 50-yard line after games.

The opinion was 6-3 along conservative-liberal ideological lines.

"The Constitution and the best of our traditions counsel mutual respect and tolerance, not censorship and suppression, for religious and nonreligious views alike," Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote in the majority opinion.

The court said the coach's prayers amounted to private speech, protected by the First Amendment, and could not be restricted by the school district.

 

 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,895]

Nice. Not that NY will have school choice. But it’s good for others. 

[TheNewGirl 1,057]

"counsel mutual respect and tolerance"

This is going to make a lot of people mad...

[Hardcore troubadour 12,895]

Maybe the Muslims and Jews can make this happen in NY. I hope. 

[Herbivore 916]

5 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

"counsel mutual respect and tolerance"

This is going to make a lot of people mad...

that's because its disingenuous

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Government staying out of religion.  Good for all of us. 

[Voltaire 4,578]

I had my eye on that Maine ruling.

In that same Arizona legislative session with the abortion protestors in the hostage thread, Arizona opened up school choice to private and religious schools. My wife caught wind of that immediately because she gets  pretty much all  her US news from the right wing Chinese-American WeChat circle she belongs to and education is easily her #1 issue.  In her mind, Arizona has immediately become the #1 state she wants to relocate to if/when we abandon focking China.

I'm less bullish. I think Arizona real estate will eventually plummet long term because there are too many people and not enough water. Besides, too many Californian dumbfocks who joyously sh*t their beds, then want to relocate because their houses are full of sh*t, are drawn to the clean sheets of Arizona. There's more and more of them arriving, unbuckling their belts, and pulling down their pants in Arizona.

[wiffleball 4,662]

Madrasas anyone? 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,895]

2 hours ago, wiffleball said:

Madrasas anyone? 

Hell yeah.  Isolate and contain.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

4 hours ago, Herbivore said:

that's because its disingenuous

 Right on queue 

[RLLD 3,538]

4 hours ago, TheNewGirl said:

"counsel mutual respect and tolerance"

This is going to make a lot of people mad...

That because leftist dont actually believe that. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 hours ago, Voltaire said:

I had my eye on that Maine ruling.

In that same Arizona legislative session with the abortion protestors in the hostage thread, Arizona opened up school choice to private and religious schools. My wife caught wind of that immediately because she gets  pretty much all  her US news from the right wing Chinese-American WeChat circle she belongs to and education is easily her #1 issue.  In her mind, Arizona has immediately become the #1 state she wants to relocate to if/when we abandon focking China.

I'm less bullish. I think Arizona real estate will eventually plummet long term because there are too many people and not enough water. Besides, too many Californian dumbfocks who joyously sh*t their beds, then want to relocate because their houses are full of sh*t, are drawn to the clean sheets of Arizona. There's more and more of them arriving, unbuckling their belts, and pulling down their pants in Arizona.

Go to Wyoming then. 

[edjr 5,656]

They should also fund my loses at casinos owned and run by Indigenous people 

[Horseman 1,586]

5 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

The court said the coach's prayers amounted to private speech, protected by the First Amendment, and could not be restricted by the school district.

Another example of how dumb liberals are.  Someone is praying at the 50 yard line after the game!  So?  Catch the coach forcing his players to pray with him and you might have a case.  

[Mike Honcho 4,105]

7 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Another example of how dumb liberals are.  Someone is praying at the 50 yard line after the game!  So?  Catch the coach forcing his players to pray with him and you might have a case.  

Who pays for that 50 yard line, stadium, lights?  And can anyone use that space for their speeches?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,643]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

Who pays for that 50 yard line, stadium, lights....

You can’t be serious 

[Mike Honcho 4,105]

Just now, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

You can’t be serious 

Yeah, I can.  It's taxpayer money being used to support religious speech in a place that I doubt is considered the public square(since not everyone can use that space to promote their speech), so why is he allowed to express himself there?

[Horseman 1,586]

7 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Who pays for that 50 yard line, stadium, lights?  And can anyone use that space for their speeches?

I don't think anyone would stop you from praying while you're sitting in the stands.  I see worried parents do it all the time, asking for the win.  Wait until a kid takes a hit and comes off on a stretcher, you'll see a bunch of it.  

[Mike Honcho 4,105]

2 minutes ago, Horseman said:

I don't think anyone would stop you from praying while you're sitting in the stands.  I see worried parents do it all the time, asking for the win.  Wait until a kid takes a hit and comes off on a stretcher, you'll see a bunch of it.  

Most of the people in the stands are not being paid for their time by the taxpayer, the coach is.  I'm not sure how him being an employee who's paid from taxes collected, praying during that time isn't an endorsement of a particular faith.  That's the entire reason there has been a no prayer in school thing for decades and decades. 

[Horseman 1,586]

11 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Yeah, I can.  It's taxpayer money being used to support religious speech in a place that I doubt is considered the public square(since not everyone can use that space to promote their speech), so why is he allowed to express himself there?

I'm not even religious, but, I can see the difference between "using money to support religious speech" and "allowing someone to pray in a public school stadium".  

Using money to fund and erect a statue of the 10 commandments = bad idea.  Allowing someone to pray before sentencing = good idea. 

[Horseman 1,586]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

Most of the people in the stands are not being paid for their time by the taxpayer, the coach is.  I'm not sure how him being an employee who's paid from taxes collected, praying during that time isn't an endorsement of a particular faith.  That's the entire reason there has been a no prayer in school thing for decades and decades. 

How do you know what faith he is?

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Most of the people in the stands are not being paid for their time by the taxpayer, the coach is.  I'm not sure how him being an employee who's paid from taxes collected, praying during that time isn't an endorsement of a particular faith.  That's the entire reason there has been a no prayer in school thing for decades and decades. 

Are you still talking about a guy who prayed alone on a football field? 

 

[Baker Boy 1,500]

Religion scares the crap out of a lot of people.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,895]

27 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Yeah, I can.  It's taxpayer money being used to support religious speech in a place that I doubt is considered the public square(since not everyone can use that space to promote their speech), so why is he allowed to express himself there?

Oh. Then I guess you’re against Muslim prayer rooms at public transportation facilities.  They exist. 

[Horseman 1,586]

Quote

Justice Gorsuch wrote that Mr. Kennedy had sought only to offer a brief, silent and solitary prayer. Justice Sotomayor responded that the public nature of his prayers and his stature as a leader and role model meant that students felt forced to participate, whatever their religion and whether they wanted to or not.

Oh yeah, all the students bend over backwards to role model after an assistant coach.  They might even give up their religion.  

Quote

Not everything school employees do during work hours is official conduct, Justice Gorsuch wrote. If it were, he said, “a school could fire a Muslim teacher for wearing a head scarf in the classroom or prohibit a Christian aide from praying quietly over her lunch in the cafeteria.”

Are we really as politicized as Sotomayor comes across?   "whether they wanted to or not"  There obviously wasn't that kind of pressure - all of the players didn't even participate.  Some of the players greeted friends and checked their cell phones. She's just making up facts.  

Quote

“The prayers for which Mr. Kennedy was disciplined were not publicly broadcast or recited to a captive audience, students were not required or expected to participate.”

Amen

[Utilit99 4,099]

9 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Religion scares the crap out of a lot of people.

They don't like when people have faith in God. Scares the crap out of them because they have no ground to stand on. 

 

[Mike Honcho 4,105]

4 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Oh yeah, all the students bend over backwards to role model after an assistant coach.  They might even give up their religion.  

Are we really as politicized as Sotomayor comes across?   "whether they wanted to or not"  There obviously wasn't that kind of pressure - all of the players didn't even participate.  Some of the players greeted friends and checked their cell phones. She's just making up facts.  

Amen

Was he an assistant coach, thought he was the head coach.  Regardless, as I've been following this for awhile, some kids testified they felt pressured to pray to get on his good side, get playing time.

20 minutes ago, Horseman said:

I'm not even religious, but, I can see the difference between "using money to support religious speech" and "allowing someone to pray in a public school stadium".  

 

To me it still feels at odds, just because this isn't a public square open to everyone,  but a football field that only a few can use.  If he went to the middle of the public square and wanted to prayer and ask others to join him-that seems fine. But unless that field is open to everyone(and based on every football field I know, it's not), it seems that him leading a prayer there is an endorsement of religion and specifically his religion.  Are atheists allowed to go to the 50 yard line and proclaim that their isn't a god?  What about voodoo priests are they allowed to make an offering to JoBu before the game(Jobu help with the curve ball)?

This seems like this court is crossing some lines here. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Was he an assistant coach, thought he was the head coach.  Regardless, as I've been following this for awhile, some kids testified they felt pressured to pray to get on his good side, get playing time.

To me it still feels at odds, just because this isn't a public square open to everyone,  but a football field that only a few can use.  If he went to the middle of the public square and wanted to prayer and ask others to join him-that seems fine. But unless that field is open to everyone(and based on every football field I know, it's not), it seems that him leading a prayer there is an endorsement of religion and specifically his religion.  Are atheists allowed to go to the 50 yard line and proclaim that their isn't a god?  What about voodoo priests are they allowed to make an offering to JoBu before the game(Jobu help with the curve ball)?

This seems like this court is crossing some lines here. 

Grow up. 

[Sean Mooney 1,191]

Something tells me the board conservatives here would have a huge problem if a teacher led a prayer in a similar fashion under similar circumstances. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Something tells me the board conservatives here would have a huge problem if a teacher led a prayer in a similar fashion under similar circumstances. 

You are really stupid.  

Next topic...pedophilia...In your ballpark. 

[Sean Mooney 1,191]

And of course the first one out of the gate who would have a problem with it is no surprise.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,643]

59 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Yeah, I can.  It's taxpayer money being used to support religious speech in a place that I doubt is considered the public square(since not everyone can use that space to promote their speech), so why is he allowed to express himself there?

I can walk into a public park and pray anytime I want. Teams shake hands after games should that be banned. Nobody is forced to do anything 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,643]

11 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Something tells me the board conservatives here would have a huge problem if a teacher led a prayer in a similar fashion under similar circumstances. 

During classroom hours and in class absolutely would have a problem with that. If a teacher says hey after school we’re gonna have a prayer in the quad I would have zero problem with it

[Horseman 1,586]

11 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Was he an assistant coach, thought he was the head coach.  Regardless, as I've been following this for awhile, some kids testified they felt pressured to pray to get on his good side, get playing time.

To me it still feels at odds, just because this isn't a public square open to everyone,  but a football field that only a few can use.  If he went to the middle of the public square and wanted to prayer and ask others to join him-that seems fine. But unless that field is open to everyone(and based on every football field I know, it's not), it seems that him leading a prayer there is an endorsement of religion and specifically his religion.  Are atheists allowed to go to the 50 yard line and proclaim that their isn't a god?  What about voodoo priests are they allowed to make an offering to JoBu before the game(Jobu help with the curve ball)?

This seems like this court is crossing some lines here. 

a) I am atheist, why would I need to proclaim god or no god? 

b) I assume I would be allowed on the field as everyone else was, I didn't see anyone checking for religious status.

Both of those questions and answers assumes coercion where there was none.  And you have imaginary lines in your head, SCOTUS just ruled saying the lines weren't crossed.  

[wiffleball 4,662]

I don't know how to score this one.  for the keep government out of religion crowd, fine keep religion out of government too.

 

I don't know about this guys god, but my God doesn't need me to run out to the 50 yard line and prostrate myself with the whole world looking to prove that I'm a christian.

 

What's to stop the next guy from going out and slaughtering a chicken because he worships santoria or what the f*** ever?

 

On the other hand, I have absolutely no problem with both squads of their own choice meeting in a corner of the end zone at the end of a game and doing a simple prayer.

[Sean Mooney 1,191]

1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

During classroom hours and in class absolutely would have a problem with that. If a teacher says hey after school we’re gonna have a prayer in the quad I would have zero problem with it

I'm gonna guess you are the exception and not the rule here. People will say they are the exception- but they are just keeping appearances. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,895]

No one on my T-Ball team prayed before or after the game. But if they did I would respect it. 

[TheNewGirl 1,057]

If the coach is making this prayer optional (before/after the game, not during school hours) then I've no issues with it. If he started forcing kids and/or treating them differently for attending (or not attending) then yes, I have a problem with that. 

At the same time, if the coach was Jewish and offered prayer, Muslim, etc. and did the same thing, I also have no problem with it. 

[Horseman 1,586]

2 hours ago, wiffleball said:

I don't know how to score this one.  for the keep government out of religion crowd, fine keep religion out of government too.

 

I don't know about this guys god, but my God doesn't need me to run out to the 50 yard line and prostrate myself with the whole world looking to prove that I'm a christian.

 

What's to stop the next guy from going out and slaughtering a chicken because he worships santoria or what the f*** ever?

 

On the other hand, I have absolutely no problem with both squads of their own choice meeting in a corner of the end zone at the end of a game and doing a simple prayer.

What if they want to gather at the end zone to do a simple chicken sacrifice!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wiffleball 4,662]

1 minute ago, Horseman said:

What if they want to gather at the end zone to do a simple chicken sacrifice!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's a common fact that most chickens are fairly simple.

 

And it's not so much a sacrifice, as a meal.