Teacher jailed for refusing to use gender-neutral pronouns is arrested after returning to school

[Hardcore troubadour 16,043]

It would be better if parents got their kids some Fockin exercise instead of taking them to gross displays like family friendly all ages drag shows. The kids and society would be a lot better off. 

[squistion 2,661]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

It would be better if parents got their kids some Fockin exercise instead of taking them to gross displays like family friendly all ages drag shows. The kids and society would be a lot better off. 

And how often does that happen? Seriously. I doubt that is a common occurrence even in some of the most liberal cities.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,043]

1 minute ago, squistion said:

And how often does that happen? Seriously. I doubt that is a common occurrence even in some of the most liberal cities.

I don’t care. All of this junk is Fockin these kids up. They should either be engaged in a healthy activity or playing/ socializing with other kids at every opportunity.  Not hanging out with their parents all the time. 

[squistion 2,661]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I don’t care. All of this junk is Fockin these kids up. They should either be engaged in a healthy activity or playing/ socializing with other kids at every opportunity.  Not hanging out with their parents all the time. 

I am sure you don't, but these drag brunches are really isolated incidents, so one shouldn't act like this is a common family outing in this country.

[Bill E. 703]

6 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

I am willing to use the pronouns "it" and "what" for the indefinitely and subjectively gendered.  I am not willing to pretend they are a plural when clearly they are not.  I am not willing to go against the obvious evidence of my eyes.  When the evidence is not obvious, i refrain from pronoun use.

I self identify as "High Lord Emperor "  You may address me as such.

[craftsman 1,045]

3 hours ago, jonmx said:

Oh please.  You love the Canadian and European models.  California and Oregon will soon be trying to follow these leads.  These are all people who you align with. 

The liberals are focking liars. They want bad to lock the smart people up.

[Voltaire 5,529]

3 hours ago, craftsman said:

The liberals are focking liars. They want bad to lock the smart people up.

I think they just want to get them fired and their careers / reputation ruined if they refuse to shut up.

[weepaws 3,425]

5 hours ago, squistion said:

I am sure you don't, but these drag brunches are really isolated incidents, so one shouldn't act like this is a common family outing in this country.

Once is too many.  

[RLLD 4,283]

12 hours ago, MDC said:

Literally Hitler. 

I think the teacher is far from being hitler.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think the teacher is far from being hitler.

Who is Hitler in this scenario, the head of the school?

[RLLD 4,283]

1 minute ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Who is Hitler in this scenario, the head of the school?

No one is, you might have to ask the poster who brought hitler into it

[Louie Kelcher 97]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

No one is, you might have to ask the poster who brought hitler into it

Well you brought up the Jews, that the Jews never thought it would come to this, what do you mean?  What do Jews have to do with this?

[avoiding injuries 1,655]

8 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It would be better if parents got their kids some Fockin exercise instead of taking them to gross displays like family friendly all ages drag shows. The kids and society would be a lot better off. 

I’ve never been to one (obviously, because I’m normal), but you’re right. Everyone one of them that I’ve seen video clips of is filled with obese people whose children are likely to follow in their footsteps. 
Take them to to a park, playground or even just outside to run around. 

[RLLD 4,283]

2 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Well you brought up the Jews, that the Jews never thought it would come to this, what do you mean?  What do Jews have to do with this?

I think reducing the events leading up to WWII to “hitler” or “Jews” ignores the teachable moment.

If clarification is what you are seeking, and I infer that you are, then I am all for it.

The lesson is that we need to be on guard for how that scenario unfolded and be ready for when someone attempts it again, and we should expect it.

 

I am reminded of a nice synopsis from Doctor Peterson…

This is how your freedom is taken.

Things get to terrible places, one tiny step at a time.

If I encroach you and I'm sophisticated about it, I'm going to encroach two millimetres. I'm going to encroach right to the point where you begin to protest. Then I'm going to stop.

Then I'm going to wait.

I'm going to encroach again, right to the point where you protest. I'm going to stop. And then I'm going to wait. 

I'm just going to do that forever.

Before you know it, you're going to be back three miles from where you started. And you'll have done it one step at a time. You'll ask "Oh, how did I get here?". 

The answer is "Well I pushed you a little farther than you should have gone, and you agreed."

Jordan Peterson from The Joe Rogan Experience #877, published in 2016.

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

7 hours ago, Bill E. said:

I self identify as "High Lord Emperor "  You may address me as such.

I thought you used Grand Omnipotent Stomper.  I apologize for not using your preferred nomenclature High Lord Emperor.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

12 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think reducing the events leading up to WWII to “hitler” or “Jews” ignores the teachable moment.

If clarification is what you are seeking, and I infer that you are, then I am all for it.

The lesson is that we need to be on guard for how that scenario unfolded and be ready for when someone attempts it again, and we should expect it.

 

I am reminded of a nice synopsis from Doctor Peterson…

This is how your freedom is taken.

Things get to terrible places, one tiny step at a time.

If I encroach you and I'm sophisticated about it, I'm going to encroach two millimetres. I'm going to encroach right to the point where you begin to protest. Then I'm going to stop.

Then I'm going to wait.

I'm going to encroach again, right to the point where you protest. I'm going to stop. And then I'm going to wait. 

I'm just going to do that forever.

Before you know it, you're going to be back three miles from where you started. And you'll have done it one step at a time. You'll ask "Oh, how did I get here?". 

The answer is "Well I pushed you a little farther than you should have gone, and you agreed."

Jordan Peterson from The Joe Rogan Experience #877, published in 2016.

I understand what you're saying, and thank for that, but I fail to see how Jews and slow removal of freedom relates to this case.  Can you explain that to me?

[MDC 8,104]

9 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think reducing the events leading up to WWII to “hitler” or “Jews” ignores the teachable moment.

If clarification is what you are seeking, and I infer that you are, then I am all for it.

The lesson is that we need to be on guard for how that scenario unfolded and be ready for when someone attempts it again, and we should expect it.

 

I am reminded of a nice synopsis from Doctor Peterson…

This is how your freedom is taken.

Things get to terrible places, one tiny step at a time.

If I encroach you and I'm sophisticated about it, I'm going to encroach two millimetres. I'm going to encroach right to the point where you begin to protest. Then I'm going to stop.

Then I'm going to wait.

I'm going to encroach again, right to the point where you protest. I'm going to stop. And then I'm going to wait. 

I'm just going to do that forever.

Before you know it, you're going to be back three miles from where you started. And you'll have done it one step at a time. You'll ask "Oh, how did I get here?". 

The answer is "Well I pushed you a little farther than you should have gone, and you agreed."

Jordan Peterson from The Joe Rogan Experience #877, published in 2016.

Literally Hitler.  

[RLLD 4,283]

2 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

I understand what you're saying, and thank for that, but I fail to see how Jews and slow removal of freedom relates to this case.  Can you explain that to me?

When we allow government to erode our rights and either deny us our voice or compel us to speak in a given way these are dangerous areas.

Here is another example of government over reach in terms of speech.

20 years ago this would have been rightly assailed, and yet here we are too afraid to call it out

The more we allow this, the more it grows. And despite its cloak of virtuosity this is an evil action. 
 

[Louie Kelcher 97]

Just now, RLLD said:

When we allow government to erode our rights and either deny us our voice or compel us to speak in a given way these are dangerous areas.

Here is another example of government over reach in terms of speech.

20 years ago this would have been rightly assailed, and yet here we are too afraid to call it out

The more we allow this, the more it grows. And despite its cloak of virtuosity this is an evil action. 
 

Wait, you don't think this guy was jailed for not using a pronoun, do you?

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

42 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Wait, you don't think this guy was jailed for not using a pronoun, do you?

An argument over proximate cause vs. cause-in-fact.  Reminds me of a Torts lecture.

[Voltaire 5,529]

26 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Wait, you don't think this guy was jailed for not using a pronoun, do you?

He lost his job, his further actions to protest the situation may get him jailed.

[MDC 8,104]

16 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

He lost his job, his further actions to protest the situation may get him jailed.

Technically he was suspended. Edit: Although his continued noncompliance almost certainly would have gotten him fired, so I guess I’m splitting hairs to some degree.

I don’t think this is the path to the Holocaust though.

[BuckSwope 654]

7 hours ago, craftsman said:

The liberals are focking liars. They want bad to lock the smart people up.

It's probably a relief to know you are safe from jail.  

[Louie Kelcher 97]

35 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

He lost his job, his further actions to protest the situation may get him jailed.

Not because of pronoun usage, agreed?

[Voltaire 5,529]

34 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Not because of pronoun usage, agreed?

Forced speech via pronoun usage is the root of problem.

If he does go to jail, it'll be for protesting to get his job reinstated and that was because they were forcing him to mouth approval for the transgender agenda. I've seen this sort of rope-a-dope tried before and it's bullsh*t in that case too: when southern partisans claim the cause of the Civil War was states' rights not slavery. 

The whole thing traces back to compelled pronoun usage.

[MDC 8,104]

41 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Not because of pronoun usage, agreed?

I tend to agree with Voltaire here. He got arrested for trespassing but fired for refusing to comply with the student’s preferred pronouns. You can say he was fired for trespassing, but he was going to be fired anyway for continued refusal to comply. It’s a distinction without a difference.

[BuckSwope 654]

2 minutes ago, MDC said:

I tend to agree with Voltaire here. He got arrested for trespassing but fired for refusing to comply with the student’s preferred pronouns. You can say he was fired for trespassing, but he was going to be fired anyway for continued refusal to comply. It’s a distinction without a difference.

yep

[squistion 2,661]

10 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Forced speech via pronoun usage is the root of problem.

If he does go to jail, it'll be for protesting to get his job reinstated and that was because they were forcing him to mouth approval for the transgender agenda. I've seen this sort of rope-a-dope tried before and it's bullsh*t in that case too: when southern partisans claim the cause of the Civil War was states' rights not slavery. 

The whole thing traces back to compelled pronoun usage.

Well, technically, yes, but I think it actually traces back to the basic lack of respect the teacher showed this student by refusing to use the gender neutral pronouns they wished to be used or to using their newly chosen name (and within reason it is not too much to ask to use the name a person wishes to be addressed by).

[Louie Kelcher 97]

37 minutes ago, MDC said:

I tend to agree with Voltaire here. He got arrested for trespassing but fired for refusing to comply with the student’s preferred pronouns. You can say he was fired for trespassing, but he was going to be fired anyway for continued refusal to comply. It’s a distinction without a difference.

Not, that's false.  That's my whole point.  I made this point on page 1 with a link but no one read it.

Here are the facts of what happened...

Mr Burke, one of 10 siblings in a well-known family of evangelical Christians from Castlebar, Co Mayo, had vehemently opposed a request made last May by school principal Niamh McShane that staff call a transgender child by a new name and use the pronoun “they” instead of “he”. He explained in court that this offended his religious beliefs and was something that he was unwilling to do.

So you got a kid, that says they want to be called by a different name, and use the pronoun "they".  Alright, we can debate whether it's focked up or not, we can roll our eyes and think this kid is weird, but whatever, it's a kid.  The normal reaction is to show respect and kindness, not hatred.

So that's what the school does, they accept the kid's request, and the principal tells the staff, call the kid "X", and refer to them a "they".  Normal teacher says alright, whatever, kid's going through something, I'll respect the kid, sure.  This douche bag Burke says no, fock that, the kid changing his name offends me and my religion, I will not call the kid by his new name.

So now we got insubordination.  Not what happened next but the school was probably like, whatever dude, but then sh1t got real....

His stance led to a number of flashpoints, including the interruption of a chapel service and what the school claims was “heated” questioning of Ms McShane after a school dinner.

We move to him being a menace, and things got so bad with his behavior that he was suspended.

He was suspended on full pay on August 24 by the board of management, which scheduled a disciplinary meeting for September 14.

So now he's suspended and they're trying to figure out what to do, but douche bag Burke keeps acting like a douche, and keeps coming around the school.  No respect for students, no respect for the school, this selfish POS is now a problem.

However, Mr Burke continued to show up for work, even after the board felt compelled to secure a temporary injunction from Ms Justice Siobhán Stack in the High Court last Wednesday restraining him from doing so.  Mr Burke told the court yesterday that if it let him go free, he would continue to show up at his workplace.

What's the only option left, get rid of the guy.

Id' have a bit of sympathy for the guy if he simply stated his intent that he would never use the word "they" and abided by his suspension and waited for the disciplinary hearing.  If he was fired after that, the I would tend to agree with you.

But this dude is a pure ass hole, so fock him.

 

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/teacher-enoch-burke-spurned-last-chance-of-avoiding-jail-as-he-refused-to-comply-in-trans-row/338519773.html?fbclid=IwAR2HgnoN9a65LoL3QszoaDT4QQLSMwTw4S0Tm714klpnzAXYnDAtpt2ETv0

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62818245

[Louie Kelcher 97]

The fact that any person would use their religion as an excuse for what names they can call someone is a joke.  This dude hates trans people, and let his hatred infilitrate his life, and he lost his job because of it.

[The Real timschochet 7,559]

9 hours ago, craftsman said:

The liberals are focking liars. They want bad to lock the smart people up.

Was “Lock Her Up!” a liberal chant? 

[The Real timschochet 7,559]

Three pages devoted to Irish politics. Just shows you how obsessed the right is over this issue. 

[craftsman 1,045]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Was “Lock Her Up!” a liberal chant? 

Should have been. All actual criminals should be locked up. 

[Fireballer 2,693]

37 minutes ago, squistion said:

Well, technically, yes, but I think it actually traces back to the basic lack of respect the teacher showed this student by refusing to use the gender neutral pronouns they wished to be used or to using their newly chosen name (and within reason it is not too much to ask to use the name a person wishes to be addressed by).

This leads back to showing that the trans movement is much more than just being allowed to live their lives like they want, which they can.  It’s about forced affirmation.  If you can be forced to articulate support for something asinine as females being males, then you can be forced into anything.  The whole movement really means little without affirmation.  

[squistion 2,661]

Just now, Fireballer said:

This leads back to showing that the trans movement is much more than just being allowed to live their lives like they want, which they can.  It’s about forced affirmation.  If you can be forced to articulate support for something asinine as females being males, then you can be forced into anything.  The whole movement really means little without affirmation.  

I would say that being addressed by the name or gender pronoun one wishes to go by (again within reason) is living their life like they want and complying with that request is simple common courtesy. 

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

56 minutes ago, squistion said:

Well, technically, yes, but I think it actually traces back to the basic lack of respect the teacher showed this student by refusing to use the gender neutral pronouns they wished to be used or to using their newly chosen name (and within reason it is not too much to ask to use the name a person wishes to be addressed by).

It is encumbant upon me to remember someone's name, even their changed name (See: Cassius Clay/Muhammed Ali).  It is not encumbant upon me to remember someone's preferences as to pronouns any more than it is encumbant upon me to remember their favorite color.  For pronouns I use the obvious.  If that's not good enough too bad to the overly sensitive.  I do not have the time for them.

[Fireballer 2,693]

Just now, squistion said:

I would say that being addressed by the name or gender pronoun one wishes to go by (again within reason) is living their life like they want and complying with that request is simple common courtesy. 

How about the common courtesy of not asking people to articulate things they know aren’t true?  That’s actually the first breakdown in the lack of respect chain of events.

[squistion 2,661]

Just now, Fireballer said:

How about the common courtesy of not asking people to articulate things they know aren’t true?  That’s actually the first breakdown in the lack of respect chain of events.

Absolute free speech in a school or classroom situation is not a right in places of employment in Ireland or in this country. 

[Hardcore troubadour 16,043]

What’s the difference in telling people what they can’t say and telling them what they must say? Mao! 

[RogerDodger 798]

12 hours ago, squistion said:

And how often does that happen? Seriously. I doubt that is a common occurrence even in some of the most liberal cities.

Your flawed, simple-minded, thinking here is that it has to common to matter.  As soon as it is "common" you'll start to call it normal.  We're calling it out because it isn't normal.