Republican culture war legislation mega thread

[The Real timschochet 6,421]

30 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I'm going to tell you where I stand on transgenderism:

Ultimately, these are human beings and they are still someone's kid, Uncle, Brother, Sister, etc...  I always try to put myself in the position of, "What if my kid was this way?".  I love my kids unconditionally (as do most others) and I believe that despite their conflict, they should be treated with civility and dignity and love like any other human and if someone wants to live that way then I'm fine with it.  However, I also think that this is a mental illness because the body is such in conflict with the mind that how can it not be? 

Also, like any other human, we all have boundaries and limitations based on biology, age, sex, etc...  They should respect those boundaries like WE"RE supposed to respect them, but they want a special pass.  When they DEMAND the rest of the world meet their demands then, like anyone else with unreasonable demands, we tell them they're being unreasonable.  The majority shouldn't have to work around the minority in general and they certainly shouldn't be expecting everyone to live in a fantasy land either.  This group is LITERALLY asking people to deny science and facts.

One things I also believe is that we shouldn't be promoting or celebrating this either. I think transgenderism - and LGBTQ in general - are a clear threat to the species. We're born with our biological organs for a reason - continuing the human race  LGBTQ is clearly a threat to that prime directive.  Also, the pleasure we get from that is a pleasant side-effect of that process but you weren't born with sex organs for pleasure's sake. 

Also, we can see now in 2023 the exploding numbers from this group and the videos of people pushing this (specifically, college professors telling students to "experiment" with it)  that is becoming learned behavior, not the "natural behavior" we were told it was.  We don't want our subsequent generations to think this is a choice - it's not.  These groups should remain extremely small in numbers because they are anomaly's of nature, and by pushing this and celebrating it and making it "victim" status you're confusing children into thinking it's normal.  It's not.

And above all, we should NOT be harming children, which is what transgender lobby wants to do.

Thanks for the thoughtful post. It will come as no surprise that I disagree with several of your points but I appreciate the sentiment and I believe you’re a well meaning person with different opinions than mine. And I respect that. 

In your post to me following this one you criticized me for attempting to simplify the opposition to transgender, and you’re right. I apologize. It’s a bad habit I get into when somebody writes something so stupid, as the previous poster did. However much I disagree with your opinions, they’re not stupid. 

But I DO disagree with them, pretty strongly. And one item I would point out is that you seem to believe that the recent explosion in transgender people (relative to the past, it’s still an incredibly tiny minority) is proof that it’s learned behavior. I would argue that it’s proof that these folks were always there, only now they feel more free than in the past to reveal to themselves and others who they really are. And that’s because of woke, and greater attitudes of tolerance and acceptance, and this is one of many reasons I think work has been a terrific positive for society. 

[TimHauck 2,619]

30 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I'm not sure I understand your point.  In the context of what?

In the guns thread posters were saying that 14-17 year old gang members were skewing the child death numbers.

Now it seems people think a 25 year old is still a kid.

Seems hypocritical.

[BuckSwope 654]

1 hour ago, iam90sbaby said:

Who said it was about protecting kids? Yeah it's about banning all things transformer. Why do you care so much? Have a trans kid or something?

Many people in here.   A lot of posts on the line of banning it for minors, who cares what adults do - just leave the kids alone, etc..    You are one of the few that actually has the balls just to post the truth that it's about banning all things trans.  

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,838]

11 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Many people in here.   A lot of posts on the line of banning it for minors, who cares what adults do - just leave the kids alone, etc..    You are one of the few that actually has the balls just to post the truth that it's about banning all things trans.  

I haven't read the legislation.  Did they ever explain why 26 and not 18, or even 21?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,838]

14 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

In the guns thread posters were saying that 14-17 year old gang members were skewing the child death numbers.

Now it seems people think a 25 year old is still a kid.

Seems hypocritical.

Good point. I have no answer at the moment. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

36 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

When I see those poor kids with the cleft palates I get sad knowing we are wasting skills and resources on all this sex change bullshit while a problem like that exists and kids with a real problem suffer  unnecessarily  

 

You think there are kids with cleft palates waiting for trans kid surgeries before they get theirs?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

4 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

You think there are kids with cleft palates waiting for trans kid surgeries before they get theirs?

Skills and recourses are directed at bullshit when those skills and resources could solve real problems that people suffer from. Cleft Palates is just one example.  

[BuckSwope 654]

17 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I haven't read the legislation.  Did they ever explain why 26 and not 18, or even 21?

Not that I have seen.   

[BuckSwope 654]

@EternalShinyAndChrome - after that post I looked more and found THIS

 

Under Texas' and South Carolina’s proposed bans, it would be a felony for a health-care provider to even refer a patient under the age of 26 for gender-affirming care. Health-care providers could be criminally prosecuted for providing this care up to 40 years after the patient underwent treatment.

In practice, this would mean that while a cisgender 23-year-old could get a nose job or a breast augmentation without legal repercussions, a transgender 23-year-old in the same state would be barred from accessing similar procedures purely due to them being related to a gender transition.

“It is all just discrimination,” Topping said.

Oklahoma Sen. David Bullard stated in a January press release that 26 was chosen as the initial age cutoff for the state's gender-affirming care ban “to account for scientific findings that the brain does not fully develop and mature until the mid- to late 20s”. No other laws in the U.S. use this theory, which some experts say is often misinterpreted, to rescind health care from legal adults. Oklahoma lowered the age cutoff to 18 after a wave of protests in February at the Oklahoma Capitol, according to the Washington Examiner.

[seafoam1 2,803]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

In the guns thread posters were saying that 14-17 year old gang members were skewing the child death numbers.

Now it seems people think a 25 year old is still a kid.

Seems hypocritical.

Why don't you ask the poster who was saying that?

But yes, many 25 year olds have stunted growth for one reason or another. Not knowing that you are the sex you were born as is evidence of that. 

And for you to deny that 14-17 year old gang members skew the numbers of murder rates in that age group makes your opinion worthless. But we have already determined that long ago so....

And there should be an actual war against what the left is doing to American culture. 

 

 

[TimHauck 2,619]

6 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Why don't you ask the poster who was saying that?

But yes, many 25 year olds have stunted growth for one reason or another. Not knowing that you are the sex you were born as is evidence of that. 

And for you to deny that 14-17 year old gang members skew the numbers of murder rates in that age group makes your opinion worthless. But we have already determined that long ago so....

And there should be an actual war against what the left is doing to American culture. 

 

 

A 14-17 year old is still a child, correct?   Trying to write them off as "skewing the numbers" would seem to be de-emphasizing the tragedy of children dying as the result of guns, if a common theme here is "protecting the children."

Honestly, I would somewhat agree, in that 16-17 in particular is more of a gray area, and can't always necessarily be written off as "just a kid," since they are usually old enough to understand the consequences of their actions.

But along those same lines, because I am not a hypocrite, I think that's also a gray area in regards to things like trans surgeries.

Overall, my point is it would be hypocritical for someone to simultaneously believe "no trans surgeries for anyone under 18! (or 26 in this case)" and in terms of children gun deaths "you can't count gun violence between bloods and crips with 15 thru 18 year olds."  That latter statement is an exact quote from this forum, and I asked that poster what their opinion was on trans surgeries, but they did not respond.

[seafoam1 2,803]

8 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

A 14-17 year old is still a child, correct?   Trying to write them off as "skewing the numbers" would seem to be de-emphasizing the tragedy of children dying as the result of guns, if a common theme here is "protecting the children."

Honestly, I would somewhat agree, in that 16-17 in particular is more of a gray area, and can't always necessarily be written off as "just a kid," since they are usually old enough to understand the consequences of their actions.

But along those same lines, because I am not a hypocrite, I think that's also a gray area in regards to things like trans surgeries.

Overall, my point is it would be hypocritical for someone to simultaneously believe "no trans surgeries for anyone under 18! (or 26 in this case)" and in terms of children gun deaths "you can't count gun violence between bloods and crips with 15 thru 18 year olds."  That latter statement is an exact quote from this forum, and I asked that poster what their opinion was on trans surgeries, but they did not respond.

It's not a gun's fault that it shoots someone. 

Look to culture in the gang land areas. Look to parents. Look to how people have kids without being able or even wanting to take care of them. That's culture. 

And it is a very specific culture that the left bows down to. And it is not an American culture. Look around the world and notice the trend.

And you saying you are not a hypocrite does not mean you are not a hypocrite. 

And it's not hypocritical to suggest something like what is suggested when there are people out there who are pretending they are Gods and saying they can just change their  sex. Any form of logic to deal with crazy people is open for discussion without calling them hypocrites.  

You are lost in the mind of a liberal. That is the first problem you should probably address in your life. 

[TimHauck 2,619]

7 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

It's not a gun's fault that it shoots someone. 

Look to culture in the gang land areas. Look to parents. Look to how people have kids without being able or even wanting to take care of them. That's culture. 

And it is a very specific culture that the left bows down to. And it is not an American culture. Look around the world and notice the trend.

And you saying you are not a hypocrite does not mean you are not a hypocrite. 

And it's not hypocritical to suggest something like what is suggested when there are people out there who are pretending they are Gods and saying they can just change their  sex. Any form of logic to deal with crazy people is open for discussion without calling them hypocrites.  

You are lost in the mind of a liberal. That is the first problem you should probably address in your life. 

Yes, someone simultaneously holding the 2 positions I mentioned is absolutely hypocritical.   If we're drawing a hard line at 18 for trans surgeries, then you can't talk about gun deaths being skewed by 15-17 year olds.   

[Nomad99 699]

5 hours ago, Dizkneelande said:

Yes it’s the Republicans that are waging culture wars and forcing people into perverse ideologies. 

When a social construct becomes science......

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

Not as dumb as shutting down pipelines. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

15 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Yes, someone simultaneously holding the 2 positions I mentioned is absolutely hypocritical.   If we're drawing a hard line at 18 for trans surgeries, then you can't talk about gun deaths being skewed by 15-17 year olds.   

15-17 year olds whole deal is bad parenting, bad kids, and illegal activities all over the place.

Trans surgeries whole deal is about mental illness.

Two totally different things. Why do you keep equating the two?

 

[TimHauck 2,619]

6 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

15-17 year olds whole deal is bad parenting, bad kids, and illegal activities all over the place.

Trans surgeries whole deal is about mental illness.

Two totally different things. Why do you keep equating the two?

 

It's not two different things.  It's children.  Just trying to confirm that posters here are not changing the definition of children depending on when it suits them.

[Crestwood 2 128]

7 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

15-17 year olds whole deal is bad parenting, bad kids, and illegal activities all over the place.

Trans surgeries whole deal is about mental illness.

Two totally different things. Why do you keep equating the two?

 

He can’t sleep at night knowing that every child can’t chop off his nuts off because they feel sad 

[seafoam1 2,803]

10 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

It's not two different things.  It's children.  Just trying to confirm that posters here are not changing the definition of children depending on when it suits them.

Some kids are simply violent and need to be removed from society, and some are mentally ill and need to be removed from society. 

Two different things.

[seafoam1 2,803]

15 minutes ago, Crestwood 2 said:

He can’t sleep at night knowing that every child can’t chop off his nuts off because they feel sad 

That dude wants to justify all garbage behavior. And this is the culture the liberals are pushing. It needs to stop. Hence why we need a war to rid us of all liberals.

[TimHauck 2,619]

5 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Some kids are simply violent and need to be removed from society, and some are mentally ill and need to be removed from society. 

Two different things.

What do you propose "society" does about the "mentally ill" kids that think they are transgender?

[seafoam1 2,803]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

What do you propose "society" does about the "mentally ill" kids that think they are transgender?

Don't feed their sickness. Treat people who pretend to be the other gender the same way as you treat people who have face tatoos. Tell them to seek help with their problems. 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

One of the most prevalent arguments made by many on the right regarding transgender issues is “we don’t care what adults do, but children shouldn’t be allowed to make these sorts of decisions”. The rebuttal from the left has often been “you’re just using children as an excuse; your real intent here is to target transgenders.” 

The appearance of a law that would ban transgender treatments until the age of 26 would appear to prove the rebuttal right. This really isn’t about children is it? 

It was a bill introduced by an extremist Republican.  It has no chance of becoming law.  It hasn’t even made it out of Committee.

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

1 hour ago, Patented Phil said:

It was a bill introduced by an extremist Republican.  It has no chance of becoming law.  It hasn’t even made it out of Committee.

Why though when the Dems forced HC companies to insure 25 year olds on their parents plan?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,838]

6 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

@EternalShinyAndChrome - after that post I looked more and found THIS

 

Under Texas' and South Carolina’s proposed bans, it would be a felony for a health-care provider to even refer a patient under the age of 26 for gender-affirming care. Health-care providers could be criminally prosecuted for providing this care up to 40 years after the patient underwent treatment.

In practice, this would mean that while a cisgender 23-year-old could get a nose job or a breast augmentation without legal repercussions, a transgender 23-year-old in the same state would be barred from accessing similar procedures purely due to them being related to a gender transition.

“It is all just discrimination,” Topping said.

Oklahoma Sen. David Bullard stated in a January press release that 26 was chosen as the initial age cutoff for the state's gender-affirming care ban “to account for scientific findings that the brain does not fully develop and mature until the mid- to late 20s”. No other laws in the U.S. use this theory, which some experts say is often misinterpreted, to rescind health care from legal adults. Oklahoma lowered the age cutoff to 18 after a wave of protests in February at the Oklahoma Capitol, according to the Washington Examiner.

Thanks!  Based on my behavior when I was in my early to mid-twenties, I can certainly attest to the validity of the theory. 

If you ask my wife, she's would say she's still waiting for it to mature - 30 years later.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

3 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Thanks!  Based on my behavior when I was in my early to mid-twenties, I can certainly attest to the validity of the theory. 

If you ask my wife, she's would say she's still waiting for it to mature - 30 years later.

I agree with your wife

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,838]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

I agree with your wife

 No doubt.  She's a crazy, illogical lefty like you are too. 

[BuckSwope 654]

9 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Thanks!  Based on my behavior when I was in my early to mid-twenties, I can certainly attest to the validity of the theory. 

If you ask my wife, she's would say she's still waiting for it to mature - 30 years later.

I understand that sentiment.  But I also understand people getting upset when we don't apply similar standards to what we consider an age is to make decisions for themselves.   We say 18 is cool for guns, 21 is cool for booze and drugs, and if that article correct- 23 for surgery like nose jobs but 26 for trans surgeries.   It's just odd the things we as a society seem to think they are developed enough to do and decide and when.  

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

Yeah, no slippery slope. Not at all. We have gone from accepting sex change operations for adults to demanding them for children. 

[MDC 7,130]

20 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

 No doubt.  She's a crazy, illogical lefty like you are too. 

My wife is so far left she makes me look like Grover Norquist. To her credit though, she hates identity politics and Democrats. 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

8 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

That dude wants to justify all garbage behavior. And this is the culture the liberals are pushing. It needs to stop. Hence why we need a war to rid us of all liberals.

Boom!  There it is.  Someone finally said out loud what most Conservatives are thinking.  Liberals have become way too powerful for there to be a political solution.  When DOJ’s and Intelligence agencies have been corrupted, we’ve passed the rubicon. I think it’s time to drop the gloves.

[The Real timschochet 6,421]

5 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

Boom!  There it is.  Someone finally said out loud what most Conservatives are thinking.  Liberals have become way too powerful for there to be a political solution.  When DOJ’s and Intelligence agencies have been corrupted, we’ve passed the rubicon. I agree with you that this problem can’t be resolved through politics or the courts. 

So what is your solution? Are we liberals to be exterminated? Rounded up and deported? What do you suggest? 

[Crestwood 2 128]

2 hours ago, MDC said:

My wife is so far left she makes me look like Grover Norquist. To her credit though, she hates identity politics and Democrats. 

What is she weighing these days? About a buck eighty five? 

[seafoam1 2,803]

7 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

So what is your solution? Are we liberals to be exterminated? Rounded up and deported? What do you suggest? 

Rounded up an deported to an authoritarian government where you all could serve under the type of government you have been pushing here in the States since Obama was in office. But they would have to want to take you in. So, that could prove difficult. I don't think they would want a large group of whining pansies to have to manage. 

There seems to be only one other option you left open. 

 

[MDC 7,130]

7 hours ago, Crestwood 2 said:

What is she weighing these days? About a buck eighty five? 

Not unless she’s been dieting. Moo.  

[Engorgeous George 2,131]

20 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

What I’m saying is if your intent is to protect children, why would you support a law that prohibits this for adults? 

I suppose they are proposing a new definition of chldren and adults based on brain development.  Frankly though, From evidence I have seen in this thread and others, adn society at large, brain development, particularly emotional Intelligence may take decades longer.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

Children must be able to have sex change operations! It’s only fair! You hate gay people if you don’t agree! Reeeeee! 

[Engorgeous George 2,131]

Maybe we are at an evolutionary inflection point.  Maybe this is the new normal, emerging.  Maybe the planet, evolution itself, is fighting overpopulationthrough this, lessened sperm motility and a host of other matters and behaviors. 

 

In the end I don't care what others do so long as they are willing to leave me out of it.  Don't demand my money or my participation in your sellf perception and you can do whatever you please without opposition from me.

[TimHauck 2,619]

16 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

That dude wants to justify all garbage behavior. And this is the culture the liberals are pushing. It needs to stop. Hence why we need a war to rid us of all liberals.

It’s not about justifying anything.  It’s about the government staying out of the lives of adults.  I thought that’s what Republicans wanted?

[Casual Observer 597]

19 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Thanks for the thoughtful post. It will come as no surprise that I disagree with several of your points but I appreciate the sentiment and I believe you’re a well meaning person with different opinions than mine. And I respect that. 

In your post to me following this one you criticized me for attempting to simplify the opposition to transgender, and you’re right. I apologize. It’s a bad habit I get into when somebody writes something so stupid, as the previous poster did. However much I disagree with your opinions, they’re not stupid. 

But I DO disagree with them, pretty strongly. And one item I would point out is that you seem to believe that the recent explosion in transgender people (relative to the past, it’s still an incredibly tiny minority) is proof that it’s learned behavior. I would argue that it’s proof that these folks were always there, only now they feel more free than in the past to reveal to themselves and others who they really are. And that’s because of woke, and greater attitudes of tolerance and acceptance, and this is one of many reasons I think work has been a terrific positive for society. 

Words a of a true degenerate.