House averts shutdown as McCarthy works out deal with Democrats

[HellToupee 1,596]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

First off of all the insults you could throw at me, suggesting that I don’t know who Laura Ingalls Wilder was is probably the worst. Talking about my favorite show as a kid (along with the Waltons)

I believe this is what the cool kids call a self own

[Voltaire 5,203]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Many good ideas have come from Marxists (for example Social Security and the Civil Rights Movement.) I take the good ideas and reject the Marxism. 

We don't need Marxists for the Civil Rights movement, although the Marxists needed the Civil Rights movement. Marxism and stirring class-based oppression was so deeply discredited by the 60s. They needed a better vehicle to undermine the American system and so they found it by switching gear and stoking racial resentment. And so now we get the lie that you enjoy promogating about how racism is so deeply entrenched in the American system that it can't be unwound out even thought it has. You get equity walking around in equality's clothing. Colorblindness is tossed to the cub in favor of anti-racism (which is anti-white racism, "the remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination") and people like you who hate themselves enjoy putting yourselves and the rest of us through white shaming struggle sessions as a form of soul cleansing.

I could see how Social Security could have Marxist roots, although I don't know that for sure. I only have a surface level knowledge of how FDR's Great Society plans came to be.

 

[Voltaire 5,203]

4 hours ago, Dizkneelande said:

We haven’t. New home buyers can’t buy houses, 60% of buyers are priced out of the auto market and, groceries are $300 a week.

 

Good point. I'd mentioned a 'Wile E. Coyote looking down' moment earlier. Maybe we're not getting one, instead being constantly squeezed and squeezed some more in this manner is the way it bites us.

[The Real timschochet 6,454]

1 hour ago, Voltaire said:

We don't need Marxists for the Civil Rights movement, although the Marxists needed the Civil Rights movement. Marxism and stirring class-based oppression was so deeply discredited by the 60s. They needed a better vehicle to undermine the American system and so they found it by switching gear and stoking racial resentment. And so now we get the lie that you enjoy promogating about how racism is so deeply entrenched in the American system that it can't be unwound out even thought it has. You get equity walking around in equality's clothing. Colorblindness is tossed to the cub in favor of anti-racism (which is anti-white racism, "the remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination") and people like you who hate themselves enjoy putting yourselves and the rest of us through white shaming struggle sessions as a form of soul cleansing.

I could see how Social Security could have Marxist roots, although I don't know that for sure. I only have a surface level knowledge of how FDR's Great Society plans came to be.

 

But I don’t think the entrenchment of racism is a lie. And I certainly don’t hate myself. 

[Voltaire 5,203]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

 And I certainly don’t hate myself. 

Sorry, I get carried away sometimes and you didn't deserve that. I notice that you've never done that to me, I shouldn't do it to you.

Call me out, I know better.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,963]

We can start with getting rid of, or at least defunding the department of education. They aren’t getting it done. Teachers unions run the show anyhow. The DOE is just their rubber stamp. 

[Reality 3,104]

7 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

That’s because you have been reading the wrong economists all these years. Start with John Maynard Keynes, and then move on to Paul Krugman. They get it. 

Paul Krugman is an absolute clown who is constantly wrong. Are you a real person?

 

[Voltaire 5,203]

4 hours ago, Voltaire said:

Sorry, I get carried away sometimes and you didn't deserve that. I notice that you've never done that to me, I shouldn't do it to you.

Call me out, I know better.

Conservatives are happier than liberals, but why? Political ideology, personality, and life satisfaction (rochester.edu)

Leftists Scramble to Explain Why Conservatives Are Happier Than Liberals - The American Spectator | USA News and Politics

I get that from speculating on things like this, but any single individuals could wind up anywhere on the happiness spectrum and I know that.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,963]

You know who’s really happy? Rich liberals that derive all of their wealth from the working class and those that came before them. 

[RogerDodger 797]

7 hours ago, jonmx said:

Liberals are an extinct species.  Show me the Democrats who embrace free speech, self-defense, property rights, privacy, local authority/states rights, equality before the law.   

Democrats despise the concepts of individual liberties enumerated in our Constitution.  You desire elitist authoritarian rule over all the 'deplorables'.  

 

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s also interesting that a majority of conservatives are getting ready to vote for a guy for President who very clearly doesn’t agree with any of the principles you just listed. Not one. 

Not one huh?  Let's take them one at a time. 

Free Speech 

Quote

We reject oppressive speech codes, censorship, political correctness, and every other attempt by the hard left to stop people from challenging ridiculous and dangerous ideas. - Donald J Trump

Self-Defense 

Quote

So long as I am President, I will always protect your Second Amendment rights to keep and bear arms. - Donald J Trump

 

States Rights 

Quote

Abortion legality should be decided by individual states. - Donald J Trump. 

Equality

Quote

Don't judge people by how they look or where they come from. - Donald J Trump, MLK Day address 

Your TDS is showing.  

[jonmx 2,424]

12 hours ago, Voltaire said:

We don't need Marxists for the Civil Rights movement, although the Marxists needed the Civil Rights movement. Marxism and stirring class-based oppression was so deeply discredited by the 60s. They needed a better vehicle to undermine the American system and so they found it by switching gear and stoking racial resentment. And so now we get the lie that you enjoy promogating about how racism is so deeply entrenched in the American system that it can't be unwound out even thought it has. You get equity walking around in equality's clothing. Colorblindness is tossed to the cub in favor of anti-racism (which is anti-white racism, "the remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination") and people like you who hate themselves enjoy putting yourselves and the rest of us through white shaming struggle sessions as a form of soul cleansing.

I could see how Social Security could have Marxist roots, although I don't know that for sure. I only have a surface level knowledge of how FDR's Great Society plans came to be.

 

The left has always been the movement of bigotry and authoritarianism.   They loved slavery and fought against it.   They loved denying blacks rights and fought against it.  It was only after the laws changed which provided legal equality, did they jump ship to support civil rights.  By then the movement was to create special rights such as forced quotas and welfare benefits.   In the history of the left, they have never embraced equal rights.  The left loves their big central government elites trying to socially engineer equal outcomes for everyone but the elite rulers themselves who live like kings off the backs of peasants.   

[shadrap 223]

11 hours ago, Reality said:

Paul Krugman is an absolute clown who is constantly wrong. Are you a real person?

 

see my previous post on page 1 about Krugman.  complete partisan, economic idiot. 

[Dizkneelande 1,086]

2 minutes ago, shadrap said:

see my previous post on page 1 about Krugman.  complete partisan, economic idiot. 

When shown foia’d emails directly from Victoria Nuland and other members of John Kerry’s state dept praising Victor Shoken for the work he was doing a few months before he was fired, Tim’s response was I read otherwise in Hilary’s book. 

[RLLD 4,144]

11 hours ago, Reality said:

Paul Krugman is an absolute clown who is constantly wrong. Are you a real person?

 

I share your criticism of Krugman.   But if it is true that someone, anyone, might have a position that supports the Liberal Religion, they will likely be held up as "good", "enlightened" and such.  Conversely, anyone who does not foot-stomp Liberal Religious edicts, will be admonished as "stupid", "right-wing", "racist" or one of many other labels used to suppress opposing points of view

[shadrap 223]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

I share your criticism of Krugman.   But if it is true that someone, anyone, might have a position that supports the Liberal Religion, they will likely be held up as "good", "enlightened" and such.  Conversely, anyone who does not foot-stomp Liberal Religious edicts, will be admonished as "stupid", "right-wing", "racist" or one of many other labels used to suppress opposing points of view

exactly.  liberals only praise his work because he is a liberal.  look at his economic work or predictions & he is garbage.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,963]

Liberals will laud and listen to anyone with credentials on their side, no matter their actual performance.  Krugman has to be one of the worst “economists “ in history.  

[Reality 3,104]

36 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Liberals will laud and listen to anyone with credentials on their side, no matter their actual performance.  Krugman has to be one of the worst “economists “ in history.  

True story, just stunning to see out in the wild on full display.

[RLLD 4,144]

Just now, Reality said:

True story, just stunning to see out in the wild on full display.

There is never really any attempt to hide it.  I mean, they do it this unabashedly.....its remarkable....

[Mufaletta 70]

18 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

 1. Yes I do support CRT. It’s not Marxist and I don’t find it contradictory to our great history. We have a great history and a terrible history. All of it should be taught. 

 

What Critical Race Theory is all About

Critical race theory is an academic discipline, formulated in the 1990s and built on the intellectual framework of identity-based Marxism

. . .

 In other words, identity is the means; Marxism is the end.

[The Real timschochet 6,454]

16 minutes ago, Mufaletta said:

What Critical Race Theory is all About

Critical race theory is an academic discipline, formulated in the 1990s and built on the intellectual framework of identity-based Marxism

. . .

 In other words, identity is the means; Marxism is the end.

Oh bullsh!t. 
This argument is so tired, stupid and lazy. The main reason white conservatives don’t like CRT is because they so t want to have to feel guilty about the sh!t show that black Americans have had to endure historically in this country. And because they refuse to acknowledge that systemic racism continues and that all white people here benefit from white privilege.  

 

 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,963]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Oh bullsh!t. 
This argument is so tired, stupid and lazy. The main reason white conservatives don’t like CRT is because they so t want to have to feel guilty about the sh!t show that black Americans have had to endure historically in this country. And because they refuse to acknowledge that systemic racism continues and that all white people here benefit from white privilege.  

 

 

 

Some more than others. Waaaaaay more than others. 

[Cdub100 3,844]

FYI there is no talk about us shutting down in the office

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,243]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Oh bullsh!t. 
This argument is so tired, stupid and lazy. The main reason white conservatives don’t like CRT is because they so t want to have to feel guilty about the sh!t show that black Americans have had to endure historically in this country. And because they refuse to acknowledge that systemic racism continues and that all white people here benefit from white privilege.  

 

 

 

Oh bullsh1t right back at you. Jeezus bro please show me this systemic racism and I’ll show you the reason time and again. Even the black women I date are tired of the continual race baiting DNC. All a scam to make weak minded white guilters donate to this nonsense

i feel zero guilt and had nothing to do with slavery. You people act like everyone had slaves and the only reason they were slaves was cause of white people 

[The Real timschochet 6,454]

1 minute ago, Cdub100 said:

FYI there is no talk about us shutting down in the office

I assume from this post you work for the feds? May I ask where? (I know some agencies would be unaffected by the shutdown but I’m not clear on which ones). 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,963]

White liberals want to feel guilty. They think it makes  them a better person. But it’s not real. 

[The Real timschochet 6,454]

1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Oh bullsh1t right back at you. Jeezus bro please show me this systemic racism and I’ll show you the reason time and again. Even the black women I date are tired of the continual race baiting DNC. All a scam to make weak minded white guilters donate to this nonsense 

I’ve stopped trying to convince white conservatives of systemic racism. No matter what evidence is presented, the reply is always the same: some form or another of “well they deserved it.” 

There are dozens and dozens of books on this subject. I have recommended several in this forum on previous occasions. Off the top of my head I would start with White Rage and The New Jim Crow. Maybe Just Mercy (which was recently made into a film starring Michael B Jordan. I dare you to read any of these and retain your position. If you are a reasonable, thinking person of good will, you won’t. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,243]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve stopped trying to convince white conservatives of systemic racism. No matter what evidence is presented, the reply is always the same: some form or another of “well they deserved it.” 

There are dozens and dozens of books on this subject. I have recommended several in this forum on previous occasions. Off the top of my head I would start with White Rage and The New Jim Crow. Maybe Just Mercy (which was recently made into a film starring Michael B Jordan. I dare you to read any of these and retain your position. If you are a reasonable, thinking person of good will, you won’t. 

Yes blah blah blah. Show me one law.  Just one. This is not a conservative thing. This is a reality. Start with single parent families and fix that. Then get back to me 

evidence is anecdotal. Comply and don’t open yourself up to “racism”

[Cdub100 3,844]

10 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I assume from this post you work for the feds? May I ask where? (I know some agencies would be unaffected by the shutdown but I’m not clear on which ones). 

DoD that's all I'll say

[jonmx 2,424]

10 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Yes blah blah blah. Show me one law.  Just one. This is not a conservative thing. This is a reality. Start with single parent families and fix that. Then get back to me 

evidence is anecdotal. Comply and don’t open yourself up to “racism”

Races and sex will never have equal outcomes.   So there will always be a need for a strong centralized authoritarian government to 'fix' things.   

It is unbelievable that we are adapting so many fascist qualities in the name of anti-fascism.  People have forgotten who fairness, equality and freedom really means and are bowing down to authority. 

[Voltaire 5,203]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve stopped trying to convince white conservatives of systemic racism. No matter what evidence is presented, the reply is always the same: some form or another of “well they deserved it.” 

There are dozens and dozens of books on this subject. I have recommended several in this forum on previous occasions. Off the top of my head I would start with White Rage and The New Jim Crow. Maybe Just Mercy (which was recently made into a film starring Michael B Jordan. I dare you to read any of these and retain your position. If you are a reasonable, thinking person of good will, you won’t. 

Can you give us an article or youtube video and not a book? I have time for a 10-25 minute read. I mean just the book title "White Rage and the New Jim Crow" has me snorting and rolling my eyes before I even finished the last line of your post. Hours upon hours of leftoid delusion is too much to handle. 

If you could defend  a 20 minute Ibrahim X. Kendi or Robin DiAngelo article or youtube video, that would be a worth doing. Even if you give us one of TaNahishi Coates' bullsh*t articles from the Atlantic. I find all three insufferable but I have enough Alka-Seltzer to handle it.

What's needed is there's a starting point and we can analyze the video or writing and see if this deranged leftoid actually gets anything right. Then I could point out where I disagree.

Or I could do the reverse. I wouldn't mind digging up something by James Lindsay or Chris Rufo, and you could go on offense telling us where he goes wrong.

 

 

[shadrap 223]

13 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Can you give us an article or youtube video and not a book? I have time for a 10-25 minute read. I mean just the book title "White Rage and the New Jim Crow" has me snorting and rolling my eyes before I even finished the last line of your post. Hours upon hours of leftoid delusion is too much to handle. 

If you could defend  a 20 minute Ibrahim X. Kendi or Robin DiAngelo article or youtube video, that would be a worth doing. Even if you give us one of TaNahishi Coates' bullsh*t articles from the Atlantic. I find all three insufferable but I have enough Alka-Seltzer to handle it.

What's needed is there's a starting point and we can analyze the video or writing and see if this deranged leftoid actually gets anything right. Then I could point out where I disagree.

Or I could do the reverse. I wouldn't mind digging up something by James Lindsay or Chris Rufo, and you could go on offense telling us where he goes wrong.

 

 

you will be waiting a long time.

[The Real timschochet 6,454]

32 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Can you give us an article or youtube video and not a book? I have time for a 10-25 minute read. I mean just the book title "White Rage and the New Jim Crow" has me snorting and rolling my eyes before I even finished the last line of your post. Hours upon hours of leftoid delusion is too much to handle. 

If you could defend  a 20 minute Ibrahim X. Kendi or Robin DiAngelo article or youtube video, that would be a worth doing. Even if you give us one of TaNahishi Coates' bullsh*t articles from the Atlantic. I find all three insufferable but I have enough Alka-Seltzer to handle it.

What's needed is there's a starting point and we can analyze the video or writing and see if this deranged leftoid actually gets anything right. Then I could point out where I disagree.

Or I could do the reverse. I wouldn't mind digging up something by James Lindsay or Chris Rufo, and you could go on offense telling us where he goes wrong.

 

 

I haven’t read any of DiAngelo. Kendi I agree with in some content but he is an insufferable writer so I could never recommend him. But Coates I like very much. I read his Atlantic articles in book form and enjoyed them: 

My problem with your request is that I don’t read a lot of articles, or rely on them for my thinking. I find these issues to be pretty nuanced and I don’t get the depth I need without reading a book, which is why I read and recommend them. But that’s just me; I’m probably a big nerd. 
 

I’ve never heard of the last two authors you mention but if you want to link something by then I will read and comment on it- I’ll try not to tell you where they “went wrong”, especially if that’s a subjective viewpoint, but I will tell you where I agree and disagree, if you’re interested. 

[Dizkneelande 1,086]

53 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Can you give us an article or youtube video and not a book? I have time for a 10-25 minute read. I mean just the book title "White Rage and the New Jim Crow" has me snorting and rolling my eyes before I even finished the last line of your post. Hours upon hours of leftoid delusion is too much to handle. 

If you could defend  a 20 minute Ibrahim X. Kendi or Robin DiAngelo article or youtube video, that would be a worth doing. Even if you give us one of TaNahishi Coates' bullsh*t articles from the Atlantic. I find all three insufferable but I have enough Alka-Seltzer to handle it.

What's needed is there's a starting point and we can analyze the video or writing and see if this deranged leftoid actually gets anything right. Then I could point out where I disagree.

Or I could do the reverse. I wouldn't mind digging up something by James Lindsay or Chris Rufo, and you could go on offense telling us where he goes wrong.

 

 

Kendi is a grifter and not an intelligent person. He reminds me of someone that created a new identity just to get laid and then realized he could use it for financial gain because he is a sociopath. His real name is Henry Rodgers. 
 

Funny that it appears the grift finally caught up with him. His anti racist research center pee’d through 30 million dollars in 2 years time. BU is investigating.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/boston-univ-professor-calls-layoffs-ibram-x-kendis-antiracism-center-employment-violence

Which racist system caused this to happen? 

[The Real timschochet 6,454]

3 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

Kendi is a grifter and not an intelligent person. He reminds me of someone that created a new identity just to get laid and then realized he could use it for financial gain because he is a sociopath. His real name is Henry Rodgers. 
 

Funny that it appears the grift finally caught up with him. His anti racist research center pee’d through 30 million dollars in 2 years time. BU is investigating.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/boston-univ-professor-calls-layoffs-ibram-x-kendis-antiracism-center-employment-violence

Which racist system caused this to happen? 

There’s no question in my mind that Kendi is not a good person. I think he’s a con man. But I don’t think that invalidates his overall message. 

[seafoam1 2,805]

3 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

Kendi is a grifter and not an intelligent person. He reminds me of someone that created a new identity just to get laid and then realized he could use it for financial gain because he is a sociopath. His real name is Henry Rodgers. 
 

Funny that it appears the grift finally caught up with him. His anti racist research center pee’d through 30 million dollars in 2 years time. BU is investigating.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/boston-univ-professor-calls-layoffs-ibram-x-kendis-antiracism-center-employment-violence

Which racist system caused this to happen? 

Hey, proclaiming anti-racism is big business. Just ask the blm starters who got $6M homes bought for them by the stupid liberal sheep who sent them money hand over fist. 

[Cdub100 3,844]

How did the government shut down thread turn into another race thread?

[Voltaire 5,203]

5 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

 

I’ve never heard of the last two authors you mention but if you want to link something by then I will read and comment on it- I’ll try not to tell you where they “went wrong”, especially if that’s a subjective viewpoint, but I will tell you where I agree and disagree, if you’re interested. 

Critical Race Theory - YouTube

Here's Christopher Rufo, the person primarily responsible for shedding a light on the emergence of Critical Race Theory and bringing it to public attention.

[The Real timschochet 6,454]

8 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Critical Race Theory - YouTube

Here's Christopher Rufo, the person primarily responsible for shedding a light on the emergence of Critical Race Theory and bringing it to public attention.

thank you. I watched the whole thing. Very intelligent guy, very well presented. And I think I detected what is for me the flaw in his entire argument: 

Late in the video, he correctly divides critical race theory between its premise and its conclusion. The premises of CRT is that America has a long history of racism and we should explore this. Rufo agrees that this is undeniably true. But he then states that the conclusion of CRT is is radical Marxism, equity instead of equality, etc. And he argues that well meaning liberals such as myself don’t recognize this conclusion, but he does, and therefore CRT is a nefarious, existential plot to destroy America which needs to be opposed. 

Fair enough, But he’s wrong. I DO recognize what the conclusion of many of the creators of CRT is. And yet I still want it taught in schools. Why? Because it’s the premise that’s important, not the conclusion. I would offer as an analogy Upton Sinclair’s The Jungle, a book which is extremely important to our history, because it caused a reformation to the meat packing industries of the Midwest, led to unionization of most industries, higher wages and the creation of our middle class. But this is not what Sinclair intended. His criticism was meant to create a socialist revolution in America; he says so in the book. He didn’t want to strengthen capitalism through reform, but that’s what ended up happening.

Similarly, I believe that systemic racism exists in our society, is central to our history, and should be taught in schools. Hence CRT. But my goal is opposite of those who created CRT. Like Upton Sinclair, they may want to tear down society, but I want to eliminate systemic racism in order to strengthen our capitalist society. I reject socialism, I reject equity. Rufo apparently believes that teaching our history accurately will lead to these things, but I reject that. We will NEVER become a Marxist society. 
 

I apologize for the length of this response but again these are nuanced, complicated issues. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,963]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

thank you. I watched the whole thing. Very intelligent guy, very well presented. And I think I detected what is for me the flaw in his entire argument: 

Late in the video, he correctly divides critical race theory between its premise and its conclusion. The premises of CRT is that America has a long history of racism and we should explore this. Rufo agrees that this is undeniably true. But he then states that the conclusion of CRT is is radical Marxism, equity instead of equality, etc. And he argues that well meaning liberals such as myself don’t recognize this conclusion, but he does, and therefore CRT is a nefarious, existential plot to destroy America which needs to be opposed. 

Fair enough, But he’s wrong. I DO recognize what the conclusion of many of the creators of CRT is. And yet I still want it taught in schools. Why? Because it’s the premise that’s important, not the conclusion. I would offer as an analogy Upton Sinclair’s The Jungle, a book which is extremely important to our history, because it caused a reformation to the meat packing industries of the Midwest, led to unionization of most industries, higher wages and the creation of our middle class. But this is not what Sinclair intended. His criticism was meant to create a socialist revolution in America; he says so in the book. He didn’t want to strengthen capitalism through reform, but that’s what ended up happening.

Similarly, I believe that systemic racism exists in our society, is central to our history, and should be taught in schools. Hence CRT. But my goal is opposite of those who created CRT. Like Upton Sinclair, they may want to tear down society, but I want to eliminate systemic racism in order to strengthen our capitalist society. I reject socialism, I reject equity. Rufo apparently believes that teaching our history accurately will lead to these things, but I reject that. We will NEVER become a Marxist society. 
 

I apologize for the length of this response but again these are nuanced, complicated issues. 

So what are you gonna do about them? 

[Voltaire 5,203]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

 

I apologize for the length of this response but again these are nuanced, complicated issues. 

By the time I got to this, I'd already concluded I would have to re-read the post at least three times.

Also me and lengthy responses anyway....

 

: