New York judge finds Donald Trump liable for fraud

[Fnord 2,051]

5 minutes ago, squistion said:

Yes. From 2011-2021, the Palm Beach County Assessor appraised the market value of Mar-a-Lago at between $18 million and $27.6 million because of various land use restrictions. The judge simply restated the appraisal value.

County assessor sounds like he might unofficially be on Comrade Trump's payroll. I have it on good authority MaL is worth $350M dollars!

[Casual Observer 597]

12 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's a joke.  Nothing but personal attacks from you.

WAH, WAHHHH.

[Horseman 2,367]

  

The county assessor value is a conservative value used to calculate property taxes.  Property alone.

When applying for a business loan it's the value of the business not just the property.  In this case the business annual revenue exceeds the property value alone annually.  

FFS

 

 

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

I can't believe Trump's lawyers didn't raise these arguments themselves. 

[Strike 5,190]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I might add that none of this has anything really to do with "law".  This judge, and others, already know that anything they can get him on would be reversed on appeal (some might have to go to SCOTUS). But it is not about that.   This is all about impeding him from participating as a canidate in the election if possible, but also to mar him to the fullest possible extent to sway the election.

This is all about beaurocracy and the intent of government agencies and their players to interfere in an election.

Maybe.  I have not researched this case in detail.  I know another DA chose not to prosecute but that may have been criminal and I think this is civil.  Regardless, there is no way this should be decided by summary judgment.  For a lot of reasons Trump is entitled to a trial. 

[Strike 5,190]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

I can't believe Trump's lawyers didn't raise these arguments themselves. 

Maybe they weren't given the chance since there was no trial.  :Shrug:

[The Real timschochet 6,429]

Just now, Mike Honcho said:

I can't believe Trump's lawyers didn't raise these arguments themselves. 

They can’t. What he did was illegal, and he does deserve whatever consequences there are. 
 

All I’m saying is that it happens all the time. If the authorities wanted to pursue this they could punish 90% of multimillionaire property developers. 

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

12 minutes ago, Strike said:

Maybe.  I have not researched this case in detail.  I know another DA chose not to prosecute but that may have been criminal and I think this is civil.  Regardless, there is no way this should be decided by summary judgment.  For a lot of reasons Trump is entitled to a trial. 

 

10 minutes ago, Strike said:

Maybe they weren't given the chance since there was no trial.  :Shrug:

Maybe you should just stop opining.  

[squistion 1,952]

24 minutes ago, Fnord said:

County assessor sounds like he might unofficially be on Comrade Trump's payroll. I have it on good authority MaL is worth $350M dollars!

It might be worth that, but land use restrictions seem to legitimately limit the value. 

[RLLD 4,143]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Maybe.  I have not researched this case in detail.  I know another DA chose not to prosecute but that may have been criminal and I think this is civil.  Regardless, there is no way this should be decided by summary judgment.  For a lot of reasons Trump is entitled to a trial. 

Trump can make all of this go away.  All he has to do is declare he is not running.  Then all of these attacks will end, bank on that....

[Strike 5,190]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

 

Maybe you should just opining.  

Wat?

[The Real timschochet 6,429]

Trying to steal a Presidential election strikes me as a far more serious crime. 

[The Real timschochet 6,429]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

Trump can make all of this go away.  All he has to do is declare he is not running.  Then all of these attacks will end, bank on that....

No. 
I think most of Trump’s legal troubles are self-created and well deserved. But beyond that there is a Kafkaesque element to our judicial system: it grinds very slowly at times but once it begins it’s almost impossible to stop. 

[Fnord 2,051]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If the authorities wanted to pursue this they could punish 90% of multimillionaire property developers. 

I am definitely down for this to happen.

THIS is the real two-tiered justice system I keep hearing MAGAmooks spouting off about. Rich vs. not rich. Politics are secondary if even a consideration at all.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

The Judge's valuation of $18m is pure BS.  It's more realistically valued at $300m or a little more.  Eric Trump says it's worth well over a billion, seems a bit much.  Trump valued it at $612m which is about double of what it's most likely worth.

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

Wat?

Maybe you should just stop opining.  

 

[MDC 7,131]

5 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I am definitely down for this to happen.

THIS is the real two-tiered justice system I keep hearing MAGAmooks spouting off about. Rich vs. not rich. Politics are secondary if even a consideration at all.

Nailed it.

[RLLD 4,143]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. 
I think most of Trump’s legal troubles are self-created and well deserved. But beyond that there is a Kafkaesque element to our judicial system: it grinds very slowly at times but once it begins it’s almost impossible to stop. 

We likely never know, but I am confident that once he is no longer a threat to Democrat power, they turn their weapons on the next candidate. And all of this just goes away......

[Strike 5,190]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

Maybe you should just stop opining.  

 

Why?  Nothing I've posted ventures outside of my relatively limited understanding of this case.  Simply because I havent dug in to it as deeply as I normally do doesn't mean my point that this should go to trial is invalid.  If you have an issue with that point feel free to address it.  Don't just whine like a b#tch.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,938]

Donald Trump turned into a criminal mastermind after 40 plus years. And becoming president.  

[Fnord 2,051]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

We likely never know, but I am confident that once he is no longer a threat to Democrat power, they turn their weapons on the next candidate. And all of this just goes away......

Nah. What you will never understand is how uniquely awful Trump is. I was convinced in 2008 that I'd never live to see a POTUS as bad as GWB. He's fuking George Washington compared to Trump. The single most divisive and negative internal influence America has seen since the Civil War. At least that was caused by issues far more important than a giant, world-eating ego matched with uncanny incompetence. 

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

Just now, Strike said:

Why?  Nothing I've posted ventures outside of my relatively limited understanding of this case.  Simply because I havent dug in to it as deeply as I normally do doesn't mean my point that this should go to trial is invalid.  If you have an issue with that point feel free to address it.  Don't just whine like a b#tch.

You ventured "Maybe they weren't given the chance since there was no trial." 

They actually did, they provided evidence and based on that, the judge made a summary judgement. Also, those lawyers argued based on what they presented to the judge that he should make a summary judgement for immediate dismissal. So yes, they were given a chance and what you posted did venture outside your limited knowledge of the case  Those lawyers were also fined for repeatedly making frivolous arguments.  

And I'm sorry if I"m coming off as a whiny b!tch, I'm just approaching this like you do when you think someone is talking about something without all the facts. 

When you get caught up, come back, we can discuss further. 

[Horseman 2,367]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Trump can make all of this go away.  All he has to do is declare he is not running.  Then all of these attacks will end, bank on that....

Trump can make this all ago away by presenting to the judge widely published information such as this article by Forbes:

Quote

 

Then something remarkable happened. While many of Trump’s businesses flailed about in the early days of the pandemic, Mar-A-Lago held on, with revenues landing at an estimated $23 million in 2020. At that point, the real estate market took off, thanks to a flood of wealthy Northeasterners who rushed to Palm Beach like never before. “The Covid situation has driven a lot of these New York and Connecticut people down to Florida earlier than possibly they would have,” local broker Jeff Cloninger said in March 2021. “We’ve got a situation right now where the housing market is absolutely beyond on fire.”

That $500 million figure, absurd at the time that the Trump Organization proposed it, suddenly became somewhat reasonable. Real estate experts outside of Palm Beach guessed that the place was worth more than $200 million. Brokers on the island thought it could be worth far more, with the most aggressive estimate coming in at $725 million. When Forbes last valued the property in March, we went with a conservative $350 million.

 

Forget all the other valuations that are included in the loan documents that the media and judge are conveniently ignoring. 

[The Real timschochet 6,429]

10 minutes ago, RLLD said:

We likely never know, but I am confident that once he is no longer a threat to Democrat power, they turn their weapons on the next candidate. And all of this just goes away......

There is no history of Republican candidates before Trump facing legal jeopardy. 

[RLLD 4,143]

3 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Nah. What you will never understand is how uniquely awful Trump is. I was convinced in 2008 that I'd never live to see a POTUS as bad as GWB. He's fuking George Washington compared to Trump. The single most divisive and negative internal influence America has seen since the Civil War. At least that was caused by issues far more important than a giant, world-eating ego matched with uncanny incompetence. 

I will concede that as a person he is unlikeable, but as a leader he was solid.  I get that people want to make his personal qualities more important that the outcomes, but I am just not on that boat.

[Strike 5,190]

3 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

You ventured "Maybe they weren't given the chance since there was no trial." 

They actually did, they provided evidence and based on that, the judge made a summary judgement. Also, those lawyers argued based on what they presented to the judge that he should make a summary judgement for immediate dismissal. So yes, they were given a chance and what you posted did venture outside your limited knowledge of the case  Those lawyers were also fined for repeatedly making frivolous arguments.  

And I'm sorry if I"m coming off as a whiny b!tch, I'm just approaching this like you do when you think someone is talking about something without all the facts. 

When you get caught up, come back, we can discuss further. 

Summary judgment isn't a trial.  Even Worms will agree with me here.  

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

There is no history of Republican candidates before Trump facing legal jeopardy. 

To put this another way.....if the Republicans were presently doing this to Biden (weaponizing the courts etc) I would object just as strenuously, because it would still be wrong.  We cannot allow this level of chicanery to become normal.....

[Fnord 2,051]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I will concede that as a person he is unlikeable, but as a leader he was solid.  I get that people want to make his personal qualities more important that the outcomes, but I am just not on that boat.

Outcomes like J6? Two impeachments? Trying to consolidate power under himself? Yeah, I seem to care more about outcomes than you do.

[RLLD 4,143]

3 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Outcomes like J6? Two impeachments? Trying to consolidate power under himself? Yeah, I seem to care more about outcomes than you do.

You do not. You can parrot the Democrat spin, you can even support the fraudulent and abusive use of impeachment all you like.  Those only arose due to his effectiveness in helping the people on whom the Democrat Party is devoted to harming, keeping down, so they can sell themselves as the solution.  When you threaten modern liberals with usurping their power, you can expect a rather nasty response. 

My hope is that Trump, and preferrably someone else with similar policy prescriptions, is able to get into the White House and start fixing all the damage done.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,238]

28 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The Judge's valuation of $18m is pure BS.  It's more realistically valued at $300m or a little more.  Eric Trump says it's worth well over a billion, seems a bit much.  Trump valued it at $612m which is about double of what it's most likely worth.

There is a 40 mil property for sale right now that’s 6000 sqft on under a half an acre

considering Mara lago is 18 acres and 24000 sqft and generates 25 mil in revenue annually I’d say a billion is low 

if you demo it and divide into half acres the land alone would be 1 bill

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

17 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Donald Trump turned into a criminal mastermind after 40 plus years. And becoming president.  

You know that's not true.  It's definitely more public than ever now but he's been involved in lawsuits and multiple cases for a very long time.

[RLLD 4,143]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

You know that's not true.  It's definitely more public than ever now but he's been involved in lawsuits and multiple cases for a very long time.

Agree, it only rose to this level of interest from the DOJ after he became President.....conveniently....

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

6 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

There is a 40 mil property for sale right now that’s 6000 sqft on under a half an acre

considering Mara lago is 18 acres and 24000 sqft and generates 25 mil in revenue annually I’d say a billion is low 

I still think that's overvalued but ultimately, it's worth what someone will pay for it.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,238]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

I still think that's overvalued but ultimately, it's worth what someone will pay for it.

Bingo and the judge going off the assessment of taxes shows the facts that they are an idiot hack

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,238]

 

[KSB2424 3,148]

58 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Maybe you should just stop opining.  

 

Was Strike wrong? Hint, he wasn’t.

[KSB2424 3,148]

The internet is hilarious today, people are going on Zillow looking up properties around Mar a Lago and much smaller properties with only 6 bedrooms and not even on the beach are 40 Million.  
 

Mar a Lago has 120+ rooms and over 60k square feet.  
 

[Reality 3,098]

This thread will probably be peenied.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 hour ago, Horseman said:

  

The county assessor value is a conservative value used to calculate property taxes.  Property alone.

When applying for a business loan it's the value of the business not just the property.  In this case the business annual revenue exceeds the property value alone annually.  

FFS

 

 

That’s not how collateral works 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

Summary judgment isn't a trial.  Even Worms will agree with me here.  

Yeah basically. I mean you do present facts and especially legal arguments. Then the question is are there competing facts which a jury has to weigh at trial. In this case I cannot imagine that there is not competing evidence as to the valuation of these properties.

It’s not a great case. So much of real estate is subjective. Then on top of that you don’t appear to have any actual victims. It’d be one thing if they could point to a bank that was unable to recover on the collateral because it wasn’t actually anywhere near as valuable as Trump said it was. But apparently that is not the situation here