Blacks Fleeing The Democratic Party

[Hardcore troubadour 15,908]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

For conservatives everything is old and tired. Because most conservatives are old and tired. 

Lol. This is the guy that said that exercising and not gorging himself is the hardest thing he ever had to do in his life. 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

For conservatives everything is old and tired. Because most conservatives are old and tired. 

I don’t know, seems like things have reversed a bit.  Liberals used to be the ones with fresh ideas, were funny, daring… not so much anymore. 

[RLLD 4,275]

12 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

What else are they going to say on sites like those?   That doesn't make it real, which is why I keep asking you.    For example, I was curious so I looked at unemployment rates 2019 vs. 2020 by race.  6.1 vs. 11.4 in 2020 for blacks/AA.    The site you linked was talking as of January 2021.   So yeah, a line like The unemployment rate reached 3.5 percent, the lowest in a half-century  sounds great, but again I ask:  if the stat I listed is true, did this economy and policies really help the black community? What other stats should we look at?   And let's be real - that sentence could still be true if it reached 3.5% for 1 day and was 20% every day for the other 4 years.      

I will not be able to compel you to see what you are unwilling to accept.   If you want to observe the progress that was initiated as not being true, I likely cannot change your mind.

I know it was progress, I understand the implications of building the basis for progress. That was what we had, and that is what Biden unwound and destroyed.....and now we have soaring costs, diminshed value of the dollar....and think about who that hurts most....

[BuckSwope 654]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I will not be able to compel you to see what you are unwilling to accept.   If you want to observe the progress that was initiated as not being true, I likely cannot change your mind.

I know it was progress, I understand the implications of building the basis for progress. That was what we had, and that is what Biden unwound and destroyed.....and now we have soaring costs, diminshed value of the dollar....and think about who that hurts most....

Correct, I am not willing to accept thoughts "off the top of your head" that were a copy and paste of other's thoughts and a link to a pro-Trump site listing general Trump accomplishments as proof any of that had to do with blacks doing better under GOP policies.    As far as the bolded, I agree - it hurts the poor the most.  What I am saying is that I disagree that the poor do better under GOP policies, I think they always get hurt the most and continue to fall behind no matter who is in charge.   

[League Champion 1,926]

4 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

What I am saying is that I disagree that the poor do better under GOP policies, I think they always get hurt the most and continue to fall behind no matter who is in charge.   

I would strongly disagree. I've lived in the Democratic Shizz hole known as Philadelphia. I now reside in the Great State of South Carolina. South Carolina is by far the most integrated State that I've ever lived in, and I've lived almost everywhere while in the Military. 

In Philly you have Black parts of town and white parts of town. South Philly & North Philly for example. Here in SC we all live side by side, work side by side with no distinctions. You don't see the division or hate that you do in major democratic cities, especially up North, that's just a fact. 

There's a lot of false narratives that come out of the South. Blacks down here are hard working, very proud people. They've established their OWN culture that they are very proud of and proud to share it. Gullah and Geechie for those not familiar. You just don't see that up North where everyone wants a handout for what happened 200 years ago, not even to them. 

I think you're wrong on this one Buck. Democrats keep blacks in their little boxes, right where they want them and can control them. That's all they've ever done. 

[RLLD 4,275]

34 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Correct, I am not willing to accept thoughts "off the top of your head" that were a copy and paste of other's thoughts and a link to a pro-Trump site listing general Trump accomplishments as proof any of that had to do with blacks doing better under GOP policies.    As far as the bolded, I agree - it hurts the poor the most.  What I am saying is that I disagree that the poor do better under GOP policies, I think they always get hurt the most and continue to fall behind no matter who is in charge.   

That is unfortunate. Often when posting our thoughts the response is "sourcce?" or "link?" as if we need some substantiation from the internet to have a thought.  When I get ahead of that little game by posting the source, from a valid source I might add, you want to pretend that suddenly sourcing is not enough.

Perhaps the pain of the people today is enough?

[BuckSwope 654]

13 minutes ago, League Champion said:

I would strongly disagree. I've lived in the Democratic Shizz hole known as Philadelphia. I now reside in the Great State of South Carolina. South Carolina is by far the most integrated State that I've ever lived in, and I've lived almost everywhere while in the Military. 

In Philly you have Black parts of town and white parts of town. South Philly & North Philly for example. Here in SC we all live side by side, work side by side with no distinctions. You don't see the division or hate that you do in major democratic cities, especially up North, that's just a fact. 

There's a lot of false narratives that come out of the South. Blacks down here are hard working, very proud people. They've established their OWN culture that they are very proud of and proud to share it. Gullah and Geechie for those not familiar. You just don't see that up North where everyone wants a handout for what happened 200 years ago, not even to them. 

I think you're wrong on this one Buck. Democrats keep blacks in their little boxes, right where they want them and can control them. That's all they've ever done. 

And I am not saying that isn't the case by you.  I am also not sure what you posted here refutes anything I said above.  Every time you and others are complaining about those animals, it's always examples of areas I am talking about - Chicago murders, NYC and SF looters, etc..   You just bring up Philly.   Remember above, I said a huge problem was population density.  I looked up SC and it seems your biggest city is what 150K people.   I live right outside of Madison which is 270K, and guess what?  We are also able to live side by side and work and there aren't dozens of murders a day.      I am not against having the conversation of what specific policies you think are leading to that instead of what I was saying above that these issues largely resolve themselves when people can spread out and have jobs and opportunity.   I'd guess your schools are better statistically than the parts of Philly you are talking about.   

I understand your's and others impulse to grab the community by their collective shirt and shake them.   But IMO, it's incorrect to just blame it on AAs because we see the same b.s. in poor white areas, and we see those communities getting worse. To me the biggest difference to me is as I said, the AA community has the added stat of being in high density areas in big cities.  So not an AA issue to me, it's a poverty issue.  To fix that requires policies aimed at the poor and is shown to lift them up, which brings us right back to my position that neither party does this.  When I look at results and stats, I see the the wealth and education gaps getting bigger, and lists of positives like RLLD provided going to the middle class and businesses.   

[BuckSwope 654]

30 minutes ago, RLLD said:

That is unfortunate. Often when posting our thoughts the response is "sourcce?" or "link?" as if we need some substantiation from the internet to have a thought.  When I get ahead of that little game by posting the source, from a valid source I might add, you want to pretend that suddenly sourcing is not enough.

Perhaps the pain of the people today is enough?

I thought it was funny that you said "off the top of my head" when copy and pasting.  My issue with that and the other one was that it was not specific policies like you claimed were coming from the right.    Sorry, "Improving Middle-Class family income" is not a policy it's a goal, and it doesn't benefit blacks because statistically that's not where they are.   That was just the first example and the next one was about improving the unemployment rate for AAs which I also posted didn't seem to happen.    Yes, I busted your balls about the sourcing a bit, but I also gave your post some thought and responded specifically to some points and dug in farther.    I still disagree with you and say that the poor, and therefore the AA community statistically, don't benefit from either party's policies.   

[RLLD 4,275]

8 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I thought it was funny that you said "off the top of my head" when copy and pasting.  My issue with that and the other one was that it was not specific policies like you claimed were coming from the right.    Sorry, "Improving Middle-Class family income" is not a policy it's a goal, and it doesn't benefit blacks because statistically that's not where they are.   That was just the first example and the next one was about improving the unemployment rate for AAs which I also posted didn't seem to happen.    Yes, I busted your balls about the sourcing a bit, but I also gave your post some thought and responded specifically to some points and dug in farther.    I still disagree with you and say that the poor, and therefore the AA community statistically, don't benefit from either party's policies.   

It is at the top of my head, which I admit is a strange thing. But I have had occasion to discuss it far too much.  I have been somewhat compelled to defend my position with more than usual frequency.

There is what I might call an "intent" to dislike Trump, but to pretend that this dislike is not personal, but is instead about his policies etc....which is of course not true.

To me it is some acknowledgement that his policies were as good as they appear.  His outcomes cannot be denied, so instead there is the effort to pretend his policies were bad. 

Dislike him all you want, I frankly find him unlikable, but who cares.....if your life is better and you dislike the President then move on, live better and dislike him.

Let's be critcal of our leaders no matter what.  No matter who they are, or what ideology they espouse.  Historically they are flawed, they do some good things and they do some bad things. This movement to pretend Trump is come kind of threat is beyond comical....it really makes the Democrats look like clowns.

They fear him, rightly so.....he does not have the standard political baggage with which you can leverage him.   PLUS....now he has a much more clear perspective on government and its abuses and corruption....if you are in the DOJ right now, his election is likely horrifying to you....

I hope he gets in there, wipes out DOJ leadership and replaces them with impartial people...if they even still exist....and directs them to CLEAN FOCKING HOUSE and expose all their behaviors.....

[League Champion 1,926]

38 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

To fix that requires policies aimed at the poor and is shown to lift them up, 

And we have that here, a Republican State. That's my point. 

 

[BuckSwope 654]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

It is at the top of my head, which I admit is a strange thing. But I have had occasion to discuss it far too much.  I have been somewhat compelled to defend my position with more than usual frequency.

There is what I might call an "intent" to dislike Trump, but to pretend that this dislike is not personal, but is instead about his policies etc....which is of course not true.

To me it is some acknowledgement that his policies were as good as they appear.  His outcomes cannot be denied, so instead there is the effort to pretend his policies were bad. 

Dislike him all you want, I frankly find him unlikable, but who cares.....if your life is better and you dislike the President then move on, live better and dislike him.

Let's be critcal of our leaders no matter what.  No matter who they are, or what ideology they espouse.  Historically they are flawed, they do some good things and they do some bad things. This movement to pretend Trump is come kind of threat is beyond comical....it really makes the Democrats look like clowns.

They fear him, rightly so.....he does not have the standard political baggage with which you can leverage him.   PLUS....now he has a much more clear perspective on government and its abuses and corruption....if you are in the DOJ right now, his election is likely horrifying to you....

I hope he gets in there, wipes out DOJ leadership and replaces them with impartial people...if they even still exist....and directs them to CLEAN FOCKING HOUSE and expose all their behaviors.....

Dude, I never said a bad thing about Trump in those exchanges.  Hell I even said there were a lot of good things on that list, I was just skeptical that it was doing those things for the black community like you and others were claiming.    Instead of addressing those concerns I raised you post a rant about the DOJ that has nothing to do with my points and with claims that it's because of some beef with the ex-Pres, and not for the reasons I actually listed.     

[BuckSwope 654]

5 minutes ago, League Champion said:

And we have that here, a Republican State. That's my point. 

 

  Yup, it's often the case as the cities get smaller and you get more rural.   That's why I ask about specific policies and try to look at examples.    For me to agree with you that it's more about D/R policies than it is poverty/drugs/city density I would expect to see examples of clean/low crime big cities in R states, or less dense states in the NE erupting with looting and crime.   One issue is there are very few examples like that to look at.  There is a pretty clear rural = red, urban = blue division when you look at a map, and there are few examples like Jacksonville where there are big/dense cities in red states with red leadership.     Now, I agree that there are dumb things the leadership of those cities are doing that make it worse and leading to trends like looting shoe stores.   I just don't understand when talking in general or about success rates, people seem baffled that poor communities with bad schools and lack of opportunities turn to crime, gangs, and drugs.   That's completely predictable.  

[RLLD 4,275]

27 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Dude, I never said a bad thing about Trump in those exchanges.  Hell I even said there were a lot of good things on that list, I was just skeptical that it was doing those things for the black community like you and others were claiming.    Instead of addressing those concerns I raised you post a rant about the DOJ that has nothing to do with my points and with claims that it's because of some beef with the ex-Pres, and not for the reasons I actually listed.     

Gotcha.  I guess my thing is that government getting out of the way, stepping out of it as much as possible....but fomenting enhancements to small and medium business is central to a true "solution".....even if that solution might tend to also help big business.

There is no silver bullet.

We might have to help wealthy people in order to help the less wealthy.  But allowing the market to operate is the best path, anything the government does will be deeply flawed, incomplete and temporary at best.  Government created this problem, lets not allow them to <ahem> try to make things better anymore....

[jerryskids 7,049]

12 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

I never said the AAs are not able to do stuff.  You misunderstood that post and I explained further.    Infrastructure = schools/jobs/opportunities.  

And this is where I part from the right on this issue, because the bolded is what I encounter as a theme from the right as a whole.  (Can I use the "you all" here and not get you riled up?).    When I read this position, to me you are saying that you think if you swapped AAs with any other group, be it poor whites, Ethiopians, whatever you would get a different outcome.   Am I getting that wrong?  There is something about "their" culture that is making it so they can't succeed where others can.   Now can you explain to me how that stance isn't bigoted towards AAs?   Like I posed above you seem to be telling me that if you dropped the Nigerians here in the hood in the 70s you'd get the same outcome.  That if you flipped skin color in the inner city you'd expect a different outcome from the white kids.   

Me?  I think the AAs issues are largely poverty/education/jobs.   You see the exact same thing elsewhere where there is poverty, drugs, and jobs leaving - just with different music. You see divorce rates, lack of fathers, broken homes, welfare queens - all the sh1t you guys complain about the AAs.   A big thing that exacerbates the issue for the AA community is population density.    All completely predictable and in line with stats.   I would prefer policies that help the actual poor and uneducated of the country, which I believe is one of the best ways to help the AA community.    IMO, the right tells them to fix it themselves while taking a bigoted stance on AAs and the left f0cks it up by incorrectly making it about skin color and leaving other races in poverty behind - taking a racist position.   Again, IMO neither side cares about the poor/uneducated which unfortunately is a large portion of the AA community - they just each posture and talk while the wealth and education gap increases.

First, I agree with you that poverty vs skin color is the root of many of the problems in the inner city.   

Does density contribute?  Sure.  But my daughter lives in Washington Heights on the upper tip of Manhattan, aka Little Dominican Republic.  Pretty dense, not a lot of wealth flowing around.  Yet the properties are well kept, and the neighborhood seems perfectly safe.

I'm reminded of an old adage about a man stranded on an island who prays to God for rescue.  A boat comes by but the guy says "thanks but I'm OK, God will save me."  Later a helicopter comes, and he says the same.  A long time passes and the man says, "God, I've prayed for you to rescue me and you haven't, why not?"  And God responds, "I've sent you a boat and a helicopter, what else do you want?!"

Money has been poured into schools with no success.  Stores eat shoplifting losses until they give up and close.  

The black inner city culture has a unique problem.  Poor Dominicans, or whites in Appalachia, don't have Ibram X Kendi and Ta-Nehisi Coates preaching to them that other people are the cause of all of their problems.  With that message comes a tacit message of lack of agency-- that there is nothing you can do to improve yourself while you are being oppressed.  This is my problem with the Left's message.  It's why I think CRT is counter-productive, and discussions about redlining in the 70s, while helpful in explaining past results, is not particularly useful in solving the problem moving forward.

[iam90sbaby 2,725]

They're leaving in droves guys!!!!! Keep talking about low taxes, the nuclear family and foreign relations, they hear you!!!!!

[RLLD 4,275]

36 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

They're leaving in droves guys!!!!! Keep talking about low taxes, the nuclear family and foreign relations, they hear you!!!!!

See, I know you dont mean that....

[The Real timschochet 7,358]

I’ve really enjoyed this discussion. There’s been good, thoughtful posts by @League Champion, @BuckSwope and @jerryskids. I don’t agree with everything but it’s really nice for once to read an intelligent debate without the name calling and insults that are so prevalent here. 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

5 hours ago, League Champion said:

I would strongly disagree. I've lived in the Democratic Shizz hole known as Philadelphia. I now reside in the Great State of South Carolina. South Carolina is by far the most integrated State that I've ever lived in, and I've lived almost everywhere while in the Military. 

In Philly you have Black parts of town and white parts of town. South Philly & North Philly for example. Here in SC we all live side by side, work side by side with no distinctions. You don't see the division or hate that you do in major democratic cities, especially up North, that's just a fact. 

There's a lot of false narratives that come out of the South. Blacks down here are hard working, very proud people. They've established their OWN culture that they are very proud of and proud to share it. Gullah and Geechie for those not familiar. You just don't see that up North where everyone wants a handout for what happened 200 years ago, not even to them. 

I think you're wrong on this one Buck. Democrats keep blacks in their little boxes, right where they want them and can control them. That's all they've ever done. 

Excellent post.  Northerners (and our idiot contingent from CA) are so ignorant of race relations in the South.  They are so much better than in the North - it’s not even close.  I am part Gullah by the way.

[League Champion 1,926]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve really enjoyed this discussion. There’s been good, thoughtful posts by @League Champion, @BuckSwope and @jerryskids. I don’t agree with everything but it’s really nice for once to read an intelligent debate without the name calling and insults that are so prevalent here. 

I like Buck. Buck and I are like this

[Cloaca du jour 2,157]

On 12/5/2023 at 8:23 PM, The Real timschochet said:

Oh look! Blexit! 
 

I can’t believe you guys keep falling for the same story over and over again. Blacks will vote for Republicans when Republicans stop defending police who are racist to Blacks, when Republicans stop trying to take away voting rights for Blacks, and when Republicans stop trying to find ways around the Civil Rights Act. 

Not before. 

Yep...first thing they teach at the police academy is racial profiling and how to keep whitey safe.

[BuckSwope 654]

2 hours ago, League Champion said:

I like Buck. Buck and I are like this

And sometimes like this 

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,339]

15 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

And sometimes like this 

 

And sometimes like this

 

[League Champion 1,926]

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,339]

Black voters ain't switching.

[iam90sbaby 2,725]

1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Black voters ain't switching.

This guy gets it

[TBayXXXVII 2,656]

2 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

This guy gets it

Yep.  They've been voting the same way year after year and nothing changes for them.  If they haven't figured out that they're voting the wrong way by now, they never will.

[iam90sbaby 2,725]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yep.  They've been voting the same way year after year and nothing changes for them.  If they haven't figured out that they're voting the wrong way by now, they never will.

They purposely vote the opposite of Whites, it doesn't matter what the policies are.

[TBayXXXVII 2,656]

1 minute ago, iam90sbaby said:

They purposely vote the opposite of Whites, it doesn't matter what the policies are.

They're still voting for mostly white people though.  Yeah, there are more non-white elected Democrats, but the number by percentage is still very low.

[League Champion 1,926]

5 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Black voters ain't switching.

This is where I slightly disagree. There's definitely a small shift in the Black Community. Is it enough to cause a seismic shift at the polls, probably not but it's a good start. 

When they see thousands of Illegal Aliens getting more handouts, better housing and more opportunities than they are then there's naturally going to be animosity. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,656]

Honestly, black people are the epitome of "Insane".  They're doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.  At the very worst, Trump was right, what harm can it do for blacks to vote Republican.  Clearly, they've been lied to for over 60 years... why stick to what's not working?

Fock, our current President literally put millions of black men in prison for something that he just reverted... when it wasn't necessary.  

[Ape Deceased SUV 29]

6 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Honestly, black people are the epitome of "Insane". 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,908]

Flip some, not that many, blacks in Georgia, Michigan and Wisconsin and it’s game over. 

[League Champion 1,926]

Joe Biden once called state-mandated school integration “the most racist concept you can come up with,” and Barack Obama “the first sort of mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean.” He was a staunch opponent of “forced busing” in the 1970s, and leading crusader for mass incarceration throughout the ‘80s and ‘90s. Uncle Joe has described African-American felons as “predators” too sociopathic to rehabilitate — and white supremacist senators as his friends.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html

[peenie 1,945]

Blacks should give up looking to any political party to save them. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,908]

7 minutes ago, peenie said:

Blacks should give up looking to any political party to save them. 

Good point. They should be voting for the party that won’t be up in their business as much, screwing everything up. 

[League Champion 1,926]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[5-Points 3,746]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:25 AM, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve really enjoyed this discussion. There’s been good, thoughtful posts by @League Champion, @BuckSwope and @jerryskids. I don’t agree with everything but it’s really nice for once to read an intelligent debate without the name calling and insults that are so prevalent here. 

Kick rocks, nerd. 

[iam90sbaby 2,725]

19 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Flip some, not that many, blacks in Georgia, Michigan and Wisconsin and it’s game over. 

We could put that same effort into literally any other minority group and have far better results. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,908]

8 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

We could put that same effort into literally any other minority group and have far better results. 

 No other minority group is going 90 pct for the democrats. This is where the gain can be made. The republicans have probably got what they can from the others. 

[iam90sbaby 2,725]

37 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

 No other minority group is going 90 pct for the democrats. This is where the gain can be made. The republicans have probably got what they can from the others. 

Good point