Timmy’s thread for general discussion

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

24 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

 

You say he took it to the extreme, perhaps he did.  That's why the banks do due diligence so they can make their own determinations.  I've audited banks earlier in my career, have a real estate license, rental properties, the whole nine yards so I'm pretty educated on what they do.  It's hard to believe no other developer in the entire state of NY did similar things, and if they did, where are the other charges?  I find it impossible to believe it's only Trump.  And if so, I'd like to know how his specific case came to light without a victim's complaint.  It begs the question, why did they look at Trump's transactions, likely Trump's alone?   To me that stinks of political persecution more than anything. 

It's also pretty odd to prosecute someone where there isn't a victim nor damages.  The supposed victim in this case would have to be the banks themselves, none of which claim any damage from it and in fact want to continue to do business with him. 

Either way, it's a significant departure from norms.  The belief it's not at all politically motivated given the uniqueness of this doesn't hold water.  Again I'd ask, where are the other similar cases?  

I share many of your concerns. Still remember this is a civil case, and yet it was used by @Hardcore troubadour as a reason to compare Trump to Navatny. I object to that comparison. I don’t believe the more serious charges against Trump fall into the “everybody does it” category, particularly election interference and Jan. 6. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

Trump is a national hero.

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

21 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Send them back. 

Since you and @Hardcore troubadour have the same answer I will respond to both of you at once: I agree with you. I think any undocumented immigrant that commits an act of violence, after serving whatever prison sentence is appropriate, should be immediately deported, no ifs, ands or buts. 
 

But- if you meant send them ALL back, meaning every undocumented immigrant, regardless of other status, regardless of whether or not they committed a violent crime- then no, never gonna happen. Even if most Americans were willing to put up with this (they’re not) we don’t have the means to do it. Not only would such a step cost billions it would by necessity force the creation of a police state. I doubt seriously you or any other reasonable person really want such a solution. 
 

There are 10-15 million of these folks already here. More are coming. They create plenty of problems for us, no doubt about that. But if we’re going to have a practical discussion about what is to be done, the first point that we have to acknowledge is that most of them aren’t going anywhere. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

5 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Trump is a national hero.

He certainly is to many people. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

He certainly is to many people. 

To the smart people. 

[Horseman 2,367]

Prove you're an American citizen or GTFO. 

[HellToupee 1,588]

Based lady

 

[seafoam1 2,803]

1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

Based lady

 

Ohhh...I would love to do her as long as she keeps talking like that. 

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

19 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Since you and @Hardcore troubadour have the same answer I will respond to both of you at once: I agree with you. I think any undocumented immigrant that commits an act of violence, after serving whatever prison sentence is appropriate, should be immediately deported, no ifs, ands or buts. 
 

But- if you meant send them ALL back, meaning every undocumented immigrant, regardless of other status, regardless of whether or not they committed a violent crime- then no, never gonna happen. Even if most Americans were willing to put up with this (they’re not) we don’t have the means to do it. Not only would such a step cost billions it would by necessity force the creation of a police state. I doubt seriously you or any other reasonable person really want such a solution. 
 

There are 10-15 million of these folks already here. More are coming. They create plenty of problems for us, no doubt about that. But if we’re going to have a practical discussion about what is to be done, the first point that we have to acknowledge is that most of them aren’t going anywhere. 

Serious question, do you truly believe there are only 10-15 million here since it’s been documented that during the Biden admin 8-9 million additional illegals have invaded our country? 15 years ago the number was 11 million. If it turns out there are 40 million illegals here (anecdotally from my buddy whom just retired from CBP who has confirmed this number), does that change your perception of the situation? 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

32 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

Serious question, do you truly believe there are only 10-15 million here since it’s been documented that during the Biden admin 8-9 million additional illegals have invaded our country? 15 years ago the number was 11 million. If it turns out there are 40 million illegals here (anecdotally from my buddy whom just retired from CBP who has confirmed this number), does that change your perception of the situation? 

Has that number been documented? I would like to see it. And yes if it was true it would change my overall perception, of course it would. But I would never be for mass deportation. It’s impossible. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

Here are the most up to date numbers we have, through 2021: 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/

I doubt it’s doubled since then but if you have the numbers to show it I’d like to see it. 

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Has that number been documented? I would like to see it. And yes if it was true it would change my overall perception, of course it would. But I would never be for mass deportation. It’s impossible. 

The Hastings Center (Not CIS which I know you do not agree with) which is an independent, nonpartisan bioethics research institute and think tank based in Garrison, New York,  March 2010, an estimated 11.2 million undocumented immigrants were living in the United States.

https://undocumented.thehastingscenter.org/issuebrief/demographics-and-socioeconomic-status/

So if we have anecdotal reports of 40 million, how many do you truly think are here 14 years after this study? This isn’t even accounting for anchor babies. 

[Horseman 2,367]

Tim isnt good with numbers. Or anything else really, but especially numbers.  

[seafoam1 2,803]

Just now, Horseman said:

Tim isnt good with numbers. Or anything else really, but especially numbers.  

Numbers are hard. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

57 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

The Hastings Center (Not CIS which I know you do not agree with) which is an independent, nonpartisan bioethics research institute and think tank based in Garrison, New York,  March 2010, an estimated 11.2 million undocumented immigrants were living in the United States.

https://undocumented.thehastingscenter.org/issuebrief/demographics-and-socioeconomic-status/

So if we have anecdotal reports of 40 million, how many do you truly think are here 14 years after this study? This isn’t even accounting for anchor babies. 

Well we shouldn’t account for anchor babies because another word for them is citizens. 
 

But that number of 40 million seems unlikely. I just linked you Pew Research which claims 11.9 million as of 2021. The last two years have been very busy which is why I said 10-15 million. I think that’s reasonable. 

[jerryskids 6,567]

14 hours ago, Dozer FBG said:

They need to know which operating system your chip has.

Nice

 

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

11 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well we shouldn’t account for anchor babies because another word for them is citizens. 
 

But that number of 40 million seems unlikely. I just linked you Pew Research which claims 11.9 million as of 2021. The last two years have been very busy which is why I said 10-15 million. I think that’s reasonable. 

So your contention is that for 11 years, we added no additional illegals when we have documented proof that we’ve added 8 million in the past 3 years alone not including gottaways? That’s some serious twist, even for you. 

The 14th amendment should be “amended” to eliminate automatic citizenship to persons born in the US to non-citizens. This was intended to prevent southern democrats from denying citizenship to children of slaves. This has been irrelevant for 150 years but your ilk and a non binding footnote from Brennan completely bastardized it. 

Also, anchor babies qualify for Federal benefits, ergo their illegal parent or parents receive benefits so that blows your whole contention that illegals don’t receive benefits out of the water. 

Are we at stage 4 yet? 

[Horseman 2,367]

Since when did libidiots think illegals aren't getting benefits? 

 

Time for a blackface trip to NYC to grab some debit cards.

[The Psychic Observer 496]

14 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Since when did libidiots think illegals aren't getting benefits? 

 

Time for a blackface trip to NYC to grab some debit cards.

You're such a sucker.

Time for some facts.

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-pre-paid-debit-cards-for-migrants-investigation/

According to the contract the most a card can have is $10,000, but most cards will be refilled every four weeks.

A family of four can get about $1,000 -- $35 dollars a day -- and they can buy whatever food they want to eat.

 

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/migrants-pre-paid-credit-card-explained

"First, we want to be really clear: each migrant will get about $13 a day, so it's not automatically $1,000 as it has been reported," Adams told FOX 5 NY. 

The program would replace the non-perishable food boxes given to migrant families staying in hotels like the Roosevelt.

The cards will be loaded with about $12.52 per person, every day for 28 days, according to Kayla Mamelak, a spokesperson for New York City Mayor Eric Adams.

"This is going to be part of our cost-saving measures. We're going to save $600,000 a month, $7.2 million a year," Adams told FOX 5 NY.

New York City has allocated $53 million to the pilot program, which officials say will save $600,000 per month and $7.2 million annually. 

The program will start with 500 migrant families with children already living in short-term hotels.

The cards can only be used at bodegas, grocery stores, supermarkets and convenience stores.

 

Sorry Horsecrap you can't put on blackface and get $10K in NYC.

[Horseman 2,367]

4 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

You're such a sucker.

Time for some facts.

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-pre-paid-debit-cards-for-migrants-investigation/

According to the contract the most a card can have is $10,000, but most cards will be refilled every four weeks.

A family of four can get about $1,000 -- $35 dollars a day -- and they can buy whatever food they want to eat.

 

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/migrants-pre-paid-credit-card-explained

"First, we want to be really clear: each migrant will get about $13 a day, so it's not automatically $1,000 as it has been reported," Adams told FOX 5 NY. 

The program would replace the non-perishable food boxes given to migrant families staying in hotels like the Roosevelt.

The cards will be loaded with about $12.52 per person, every day for 28 days, according to Kayla Mamelak, a spokesperson for New York City Mayor Eric Adams.

"This is going to be part of our cost-saving measures. We're going to save $600,000 a month, $7.2 million a year," Adams told FOX 5 NY.

New York City has allocated $53 million to the pilot program, which officials say will save $600,000 per month and $7.2 million annually. 

The program will start with 500 migrant families with children already living in short-term hotels.

The cards can only be used at bodegas, grocery stores, supermarkets and convenience stores.

 

Sorry Horsecrap you can't put on blackface and get $10K in NYC.

Whooosh!

 

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

2 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Whooosh!

 

1. It’s not happening 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

43 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

So your contention is that for 11 years, we added no additional illegals when we have documented proof that we’ve added 8 million in the past 3 years alone not including gottaways? That’s some serious twist, even for you. 

The 14th amendment should be “amended” to eliminate automatic citizenship to persons born in the US to non-citizens. This was intended to prevent southern democrats from denying citizenship to children of slaves. This has been irrelevant for 150 years but your ilk and a non binding footnote from Brennan completely bastardized it. 

Also, anchor babies qualify for Federal benefits, ergo their illegal parent or parents receive benefits so that blows your whole contention that illegals don’t receive benefits out of the water. 

Are we at stage 4 yet? 

A lot to break down here: 

1. No, I think we probably added around 4 million, which would make it around 15 million. But again these are just estimates which is why I came up with 10-15 million. It’s a guess. Could be a whole lot more, could be a little less. In any event it’s a whole lot of people so I’m not even sure what we’re arguing about here. 

2. I don’t agree with you about the 14th Amendment. I see no reason to change it. 

3. I have never once written than undocumented immigrants don’t receive benefits. What I wrote is that as a general rule they contribute much more than they receive. However this is a long term thing, so the immediate costs can be higher than the gain, leading to problems in the cities that they tend to congregate, especially now. 

[Horseman 2,367]

8 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

1. It’s not happening 

Has to be a gutterboy alias.  Nobody else is that stupid.  He thinks saying it's a cost savings compared to what they just admitted they are already spending on illegals is some sort of win. 

They've essentially housed put all these illegals on welfare at our expense.

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

But once again you guys keep whining about these people being here without offering any workable solutions. You keep repeating “they shouldn’t be here”. Well they ARE here, and more are coming, and we can't change that. Deporting them is unworkable. Depriving of them of housing or minimal benefits is not only unworkable, it will make things worse. This is a very complex problem and it requires some very thoughtful solutions. The Biden Administration hasn’t performed well on this; they have bungled their response, desperately attempting to appease all sides. But the position and ideas of conservatives these days is far far worse. 

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

A lot to break down here: 

1. No, I think we probably added around 4 million, which would make it around 15 million. But again these are just estimates which is why I came up with 10-15 million. It’s a guess. Could be a whole lot more, could be a little less. In any event it’s a whole lot of people so I’m not even sure what we’re arguing about here. 

2. I don’t agree with you about the 14th Amendment. I see no reason to change it. 

3. I have never once written than undocumented immigrants don’t receive benefits. What I wrote is that as a general rule they contribute much more than they receive. However this is a long term thing, so the immediate costs can be higher than the gain, leading to problems in the cities that they tend to congregate, especially now. 

We’ve only added 4 million in 14 years?? GTFO

Your favorite website Center for American Progress Scenario 1: Providing a pathway to citizenship for all undocumented immigrants in the United States would boost U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) by a cumulative total of $1.7 trillion over 10 years and create 438,800 new jobs.

Ten years after implementation, those annual wages would be $14,000 higher, and all other American workers would see their annual wages increase by $700.

So in 10 years average Americans will see an annual wage increase of 700 dollars?? Yay maybe we can afford an extra carton of eggs.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/citizenship-undocumented-immigrants-boost-u-s-economic-growth/

 

 

[HellToupee 1,588]

26 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

You're such a sucker.

Time for some facts.

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-pre-paid-debit-cards-for-migrants-investigation/

According to the contract the most a card can have is $10,000, but most cards will be refilled every four weeks.

A family of four can get about $1,000 -- $35 dollars a day -- and they can buy whatever food they want to eat.

 

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/migrants-pre-paid-credit-card-explained

"First, we want to be really clear: each migrant will get about $13 a day, so it's not automatically $1,000 as it has been reported," Adams told FOX 5 NY. 

The program would replace the non-perishable food boxes given to migrant families staying in hotels like the Roosevelt.

The cards will be loaded with about $12.52 per person, every day for 28 days, according to Kayla Mamelak, a spokesperson for New York City Mayor Eric Adams.

"This is going to be part of our cost-saving measures. We're going to save $600,000 a month, $7.2 million a year," Adams told FOX 5 NY.

New York City has allocated $53 million to the pilot program, which officials say will save $600,000 per month and $7.2 million annually. 

The program will start with 500 migrant families with children already living in short-term hotels.

The cards can only be used at bodegas, grocery stores, supermarkets and convenience stores.

 

Sorry Horsecrap you can't put on blackface and get $10K in NYC.

Massachusetts is where it’s at

 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

4 minutes ago, Horseman said:

 

They've essentially housed put all these illegals on welfare at our expense.

It’s actually at the expense of the city and state of New York. 
 

But it SHOULD be at our expense. This is nationwide problem. You and I and all taxpayers should be paying to help the cities and areas most burdened with this problem, since you and I and all taxpayers reap the tremendous economic and social benefits of these people being here. 
 

And when I write “tremendous economic and social benefits” I’m actually understating the case: 

https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/contributions-of-undocumented-immigrants-by-country/

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

4 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

We’ve only added 4 million in 14 years?? GTFO

Your favorite website Center for American Progress Scenario 1: Providing a pathway to citizenship for all undocumented immigrants in the United States would boost U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) by a cumulative total of $1.7 trillion over 10 years and create 438,800 new jobs.

Ten years after implementation, those annual wages would be $14,000 higher, and all other American workers would see their annual wages increase by $700.

So in 10 years average Americans will see an annual wage increase of 700 dollars?? Yay maybe we can afford an extra carton of eggs.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/citizenship-undocumented-immigrants-boost-u-s-economic-growth/

 

 

Im actually not in favor of giving them citizenship. I think they should be given legal recognition, but not full citizenship. I don’t think anyone who comes here illegally should ever have the right to vote. 
 

But I do agree that giving them legal recognition would be a great economic boon to us. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

6 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Massachusetts is where it’s at

 

Again I don’t understand why you don’t seem to get that cutting off aid to these people will make things far worse. Give them a chance to get settled in, to start working, and they will create much more wealth for us than they cost the system initially. But if you fail to make this investment then you’re simply increasing everything you’re concerned about: poverty, crime, public health, and overall costs to our society. 

[The Psychic Observer 496]

22 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Has to be a gutterboy alias.  Nobody else is that stupid.  He thinks saying it's a cost savings compared to what they just admitted they are already spending on illegals is some sort of win. 

They've essentially housed put all these illegals on welfare at our expense.

Do you still think you can go to NYC in blackface and get a $10k debit card with no restrictions?  Or are you man enough to admit you were wrong?

[jerryskids 6,567]

30 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Again I don’t understand why you don’t seem to get that cutting off aid to these people will make things far worse. Give them a chance to get settled in, to start working, and they will create much more wealth for us than they cost the system initially. But if you fail to make this investment then you’re simply increasing everything you’re concerned about: poverty, crime, public health, and overall costs to our society. 

Presuming that MA data was correct, a family of 4 migrants gets $93K per year for food, PLUS hotel costs and the other benefits provided by taxpayers (things like roads, emergency services, emergency medical, schooling?).  Can we conservatively call the total $150K?

Do you think a family of 4 migrants, on average, provides > $150K/year of value to our society?

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

19 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Presuming that MA data was correct, a family of 4 migrants gets $93K per year for food, PLUS hotel costs and the other benefits provided by taxpayers (things like roads, emergency services, emergency medical, schooling?).  Can we conservatively call the total $150K?

Do you think a family of 4 migrants, on average, provides > $150K/year of value to our society?

No idea. I doubt it. But that $150k is a temporary number. Pretty soon that number will be reduced to practically zero, whereas the value will continue forever. 

[Strike 5,203]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

But once again you guys keep whining about these people being here without offering any workable solutions. You keep repeating “they shouldn’t be here”. Well they ARE here, and more are coming, and we can't change that. Deporting them is unworkable. Depriving of them of housing or minimal benefits is not only unworkable, it will make things worse. This is a very complex problem and it requires some very thoughtful solutions. The Biden Administration hasn’t performed well on this; they have bungled their response, desperately attempting to appease all sides. But the position and ideas of conservatives these days is far far worse. 

When a discussion about illegal immigration starts with the caveat that we can't remove them any semblance of the discussion being an "intelligent" discussion goes out the window. 

[Horseman 2,367]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I have never once written than undocumented immigrants don’t receive benefits. 

1 - It's not happening.

2 - It's not widespread.

On 2/19/2024 at 8:41 AM, The Real timschochet said:

We don’t have proper numbers on how many undocumented immigrants receive welfare or other government benefits on a long term basis  but again I suspect it’s not a very large number.  They mostly live in the shadows of our society and want nothing to do with the government.

3 - We need to do it, it's good for us.

Quote

 Depriving of them of housing or minimal benefits is not only unworkable, it will make things worse.

Seriously, this is the second time doing this retard do loop.  @Dizkneelande quit responding to this idiot.

[Horseman 2,367]

1 hour ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Do you still think you can go to NYC in blackface and get a $10k debit card with no restrictions?  Or are you man enough to admit you were wrong?

It's pretty easy for everyone to see what a foking idiot you are if you thought I was actually going to paint my face and drive to NY.  First class moron.   

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

When a discussion about illegal immigration starts with the caveat that we can't remove them any semblance of the discussion being an "intelligent" discussion goes out the window. 

But it’s true isn’t it? If we have 15 million people here ( @Dizkneelande says a lot more) how are we to remove them?) You’re not a stupid guy; it’s an unrealistic goal. 

[Horseman 2,367]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

But it’s true isn’t it? If we have 15 million people here ( @Dizkneelande says a lot more) how are we to remove them?) You’re not a stupid guy; it’s an unrealistic goal. 

It's only 300,000 bus loads.  1,000 buses a day for less than a year.  Quit being a drama queen.  

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

And yes I know Trump is planning on using the military for mass deportation and detention camps: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/
 

And I know that some of you think this would be a good thing. But it’s unworkable and the public won’t ever put up with it. Our police and military  aren’t Gestapo however much Trump might want them to be. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

Just now, Horseman said:

It's only 300,000 bus loads.  1,000 buses a day for less than a year.  Quit being a drama queen.  

Crazy talk. It’s delusional. 

[Fnord 2,051]

The abundance of complaing and dearth of solutions continues, I see. Fun to watch Tim steamroll some mooks in here with actual facts, while the mooks use right wing Twitter trolls as their info sources.